Quebec kids can't opt out of religion course: top court

The Supreme Court has rejected the appeal of a Quebec couple who wanted to have their children exempted from a religion course at school. The court unanimously ruled the course does not violate freedom of religion. Stephane Giroux has more on the ruling.

National Affairs: No skipping religion class

George Buscemi with the Quebec Life Coalition says parents believe the course violates their freedom of conscience. Justin Trottier with the Canadian Secular Alliace says his personal concern with the course is that it doesn't deal with other kinds of secular ethics.

CTV News Channel: Case has 'poor factual record'

Nathalie Des Rosiers, with Canadian Civil Liberties Association says the case has a poor factual record and also discusses how the Supreme Court made its decision.

CTV News Channel: Religious studies ruling

CTV's Stephane Giroux says in 2008, the Quebec government decided to abolish traditional religious classes taught in both Catholic and Protestant school boards. They were replaced with an ethics and religion course, which now kids cannot opt out of.

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The Parliament Peace Tower is viewed from Supreme Court of Canada in Ottawa on Friday May 7, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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kids should learn about religion(s). They don't need to learn the specific doctrine, but they should understand the point of view, history, and modern social context.

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Quebec kids can't opt out of religion course: top court

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Quebec kids can't opt out of religion course: top court

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CTVNews.ca Staff

Date: Fri. Feb. 17 2012 10:07 PM ET

A mandatory ethics and religion course in Quebec schools is constitutional, Canada's top court ruled Friday.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled unanimously the course doesn't violate freedom of religion protections.

The case came before the court after a Quebec couple from Drummondville argued their children should be exempt from having to take the course, which the government introduced in 2008.

The couple said the course violated their rights by forcing their children to learn religious beliefs they didn't practice.

"The early exposure of children to realities that differ from those in their immediate family environment is a fact of life in society," the court said.

"The suggestion that exposing children to a variety of religious facts in itself infringes their religious freedom or that of their parents amounts to a rejection of the multicultural reality of Canadian society and ignores the Quebec government's obligations with regard to public education."

The court said the couple failed to prove their rights were violated by either the course or the school board's refusal to exempt the children from the program.

The ethics and religious culture curriculum replaced the former Protestant and Catholic religious courses for all students except those in Grade 9.

The government promoted it as a way of fostering harmonious relations among students by introducing them to religious practices and traditions from around the world as well as from Quebec.

The case came before the Supreme Court after a Quebec Superior Court and the Quebec Court of Appeal rejected the parents' arguments.

Comments are now closed for this story

Steve H
said

Ripley Believes. When your child points at a Mosque, a Church a Synagogue and asks what is that, just tell em I don't know. I never believed. Duh! My friend I don't make up a story to defend the fairy tales, I tell my kids that's where the crazy people hang out. Better of telling kids fairy tales like Peter Pan than religions that have cause millions of deaths, the world would be a more peaceful place without any of these old fairy tales.

dawn
said

@Andy, evolution is nothing more than a theory. It is not proven fact. Therefore it doesn't belong in school any more than the creation theory.

PBoulianne
said

I have the same problem with the Catholic schools in Saskatchwan. My kids are forced to take this stupid class even though the only reason that they are there is for French Immersion which no other schools in the area offer. This class, based on Catholic "morals" should be an option for those who believe in their version of the "invisible man" and those who don't have the same beliefs should be allowed to take something more useful to help them get real life skills. Just sayin...

Robert in Burnaby
said

I actually approve of this. Too many people are ignorant as to religion in general and if this is a neutral class that covers everything ranging from Buddhism, Judaism, to Christianity and goes by historical facts rather than trying to force feed dogmas, fantastic. I was a Mormon raised in a Catholic school so that I would have an understanding of both points of view and only once did I feel that my personal religious views were attacked (and that was by a substitute teacher that had a gripe against any faith that wasn't Catholic).I think a religion class would do the world some good so that people have some degree of knowledge as to the matter and can then choose for themselves if it is something that interests them or not. I just ask to keep it neutral and respectful.

Will
said

The court missed the boat on this one. There is absolutely NO way that the schools should be teaching religion-regardless of format. Religion is the purvue of the parents not a school board. Even though the course is a comparison rather than indoctrination, it is still inappropriate for the public schools.

Sid
said

Atheism, The belief that there was nothing and that nothing happened to nothing, and nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Yup. Makes perfect sense.

Andy
said

Religion is for Sunday school. Evolution-science, is for the classroom. This is the kind of nonsense plaguing the United States. Where policy and candidates seem to be aimed towards the religious sects.CANADA DOES NOT NEED RELIGION TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS!If you're religious, then take your kids to church and let them learn there!

lizz
said

I do not believe that it is a schools responsibility to teach any child about any religion. That is for parents. On the other hand, having it as an optional high school course would be the way to go, if a child is interested in that. As it could later lead to a career.

Josh
said

MikeWhy people get fed up is on one hand people get worked up when there is a christian event yet any other were told we have to show tollerance.

Jamie from Calgary
said

I am an atheist but I also have a son that is 13 and I encourage him to learn. Religions formed the basis for the societies that we live in. Being educated in something doesnt mean you support it or believe it. Showing tolerance for our fellow man regardless of beliefs will make the world a safer place.

Mike from WPG
said

I am a teacher in a Public school in MB and I think that all students should have to take religion courses. Religion has influenced so much of Human history that to completely ignore it is asinine, yet public schools often pretend religion doesn't exist. All pupils should take survey courses on World Religions, especically the "Big Three" monotheistic religions; with side orders of Hinduism, and Buddhism. It's ridiculous that when studying ancient Rome, Greece, and Egypt, we look at how their religions influenced them (and us too) and yet don't pay any attention to how our big religions still influence us today.

Doug
said

"Religion should not be pushed in a publicly funded school to the children."What are you talking about? Classes like this teach about different beliefs. I agree that those beliefs are pretty much all stupid but they aren't being taught as fact. The facts about them are being taught. It's called school, you should try going back to it.

Scott in Langley
said

I'm a devout atheist, and I don't see why there's a problem with this course. It has nothing to do with indoctination (unlike the Protestant / Catholic courses it's replacing). It's not much different than a geography class. Teaching kids how other people around the world live and what they believe seems like a damn good idea to me. Bigotry stems from ignorance, more often than not.

dino
said

So help me God, I am an athiest!

Ben
said

Rick, I believe religion almost always plays a role in conflict, but often as the excuse for for basic human realities such as greed, corruption and lust for power. I am a Christian and am such because I admit I am a sinner and have asked Jesus Christ to be my guide and direction.This doesn't change the fact that I blow it from time to time, just like anybody else. To suggest an outright ban on religion only reinforces our human inability to be truly tolerant of one another. In reality, we're still very much a tyranny of the majority and your kind of suggestion causes me to worry we're headed towards a far less "free" society than we have today.

paula
said

Religion is none of the school or politicians business. That is a very basic "right of choice" I don't care if someone is Catholic,Protestant, Muslim etc.. It is their business and only theirs.That is appalling and actually a form of bullying.

Rick
said

They are not "pushing" any religion, but rather teaching what various religions are like. It's up to the student to decide what he/she thinks about each religion. Seems like an excellent idea!!! The more we learn about our neighbours the more (hopefully) we will understand them.

k markham
said

Religion should have no place in the school classroom. Kids don't really care either way, they just sit there tuned out or finding ways to be critical. I always found religious class a good place to do my English homework.

Double standards!
said

Catholics can bow out of learning about safe sex, but non believers can't bow out of fairy tales. Quite the double standard here. Tell me how this is any different. Or how about young Muslim women not being allowed (By parents) to attend women abuse speakers, trust me they send home forms. My wife regularly speaks at schools, and she has noticed there are never any Muslims women in the crowd, when she's speaking of domestic abuse and assaults. Most of the parents of Muslims ask their children to be excused and we allow it. They(My wife's organization) have stopped going to Brampton schools, out of a school of 500, 20 young girls would show up, all white, not one Arab, not one Muslim. Teaching religion at school, regardless of faith, with out the parents consent is paramount to child abuse in my eyes. If this is the standard as a parent, you have no choice, then neither show those Muslims or Catholics when talking about gay marriage, domestic abuse, or using a condom. If those parents and kids have to squirm about learning something that makes them uncomfortable, then so should the bible thumpers.

Original Atheist Canadian
said

@Original CAnadien, if you think Canada's Original religions are only Christian religions, then I think perhaps you've forgotten our First Nation's people - maybe we should be teaching those beliefs!!! Oh and by the way, you spelled "Canadian" wrong!

Christopher Hitchens
said

BRAVO ! I applaud the Supreme Court for forcing the next generations of Quebec's youth to be able to learn about the world's major religions. This will allow the children to identify just how far fetched, evil and fundamentally demented organized faiths are. In reality this course must have been penned by an Atheist as this course will certainly help secure our position as the fastest growing non-prophet organization in the world !!

Shea
said

I think their is a fine line between teaching "about" religion and simply teaching religion, and whether or not that line gets crossed will be up to the teacher and his/her own beliefs. That said, I am an atheist who has read old and new testament bibles and studied several other non-Christian religions because I think it is important to fully understand what the majority of the population believes. Our children should have this information too, just like the sex education program that was supposed to teach children about homosexuality and transgender - it's important to understand the people you share this world with. I'm just not sure I am confident that the teachers will do such a course justice, but I guess that's where the parents need to step up and set the story straight.

Rasclaat
said

I am so glad we homeschool, free from Nanny State intrusion, propaganda, and indoctrination! My kids will not worship at the altar of Environmentalism,Political Correctness, feminism, the gay agenda, etc. they don't worship according to what the State brainwashes kids with.They are not "sheeple."

Dale, Surrey, B.C.
said

The real purpose of all this is to get us to see the advertising displayed here.

Tim
said

Religion is a major aspect of human society, just ignoring it won't make it go away so you may as well tell kids about it. If some of them choose to believe, that's their business. As for the people openly insulting religion, grow up; learn how to have an opinion without needing to denigrate other people. I swear, some atheists are as bad as the "forceful bible-thumpers" they're so terrified of.

Ripley Believes
said

Don't teach me things I dont' believe? Uh, I never went far in school, but I'm thinking how do I know what I believe, if you don't teach it to me? I never believed in Little Jack Horner but if you want to run the poem by me, I'll be ok with it. When your child points at a Mosque, a Church a Synagogue and asks what is that, just tell em I don't know. I never believed. Duh!

MARG MM
said

While I am not against religion, I don't think it should be taught in public school. What is to stop a teacher of a particular faith from pushing their own agenda? Parents should be the ones teaching religion, and if kids don't learn about it when they are young, many times when they become adults, they look into different aspects of it and find one that suits. However, common sense and life skills should be taught in schools, as it seems there are many out there without any.

Geoff in Lethbridge
said

The core problem here is not what is being taught, it is that the court decided that parents cannot have a say in what is taught to their own kids. This is an unwelcome court ruling because it emphasizes state control over parent control. The state has no business deciding things that are not functional skills like math, language and objective knowledge about scientific and geographic facts or documented history. The ruling opens the door to letting the state force its views - which can change according to political influences - on those who don't agree. This ruling must be appealed and revisited. And I am Christian and I teach my children to love everyone, including homosexuals, even if they don't agree with their behaviour. (e.g. I don't hate alcoholics just because it's wrong to drink and drive!)

Gregory Wollf
said

@Sam: I think the issue here is that we assume that an 'unbiased multiculturalism' isn't a point of view so much as it is a point of reference to understand all truth. This is a lie of course, Multiculturalism is an ideology all on its own, it's just the one that the nation as a whole believes in.

dkjd
said

Wow a lot of non religous people here......Kind of gives me some hope for society

Gord from Ottawa
said

@ Astro and Stu - religion, or at least religious differences, have been a very important influence on history as well as current events. Teaching the roles and an understanding of different religions will undoubtedly mitigate many of the misunderstandings that now abound between peoples. In general it is not religions that cause wars and bloodshed, it is people who use religion as a rallying cry to recruit and motivate others.@ Hope - religion is not static. Every religion has evolved as it has tried to keep up with the evolving world. This is also true of the Bible. Ancient people would never understand the modern facination with the fundamentalist belief that the Bible is absolutely true in every word. To them it was mythos, allegorical in tone in order for ordinary people to understand complex concepts.

Sam
said

Religion should not be pushed in a publicly funded school to the children. This is not called opening up students eyes to culture, it's called someone of authority pushing ideologies into young impressionable minds without the permission of the parents or in regard to other religious beliefs. Didn't the Government just apoligize to the Aboriginal people of Canada for what the residential schools did to them. (forcing a certain culture on them not respecting their own heritages). This isn't much different.

scott
said

Every politician in this country should be forced to take coures on ethics seeing as very few if any of them have any. So much for freedom of choice regarding how parents raise their children. But this is Quebec we are talking about so I am not surprised in the least. What applies to canadians does not apply to quebecers. From what I have been able to ascertain, Qubec has all but seperated from canada anyway. They just haven't made it official. They desperately need the money to stay afloat.

Franck Commonsens
said

Ridiculous! whats next? Why not try to ban philosophy, art or biology while we are at it?!Am Atheist but applaud that such courses are given as knowledge leads to understanding which lead to communication and/or tolerance.

dkjd
said

I am an atheist and think religion is rather silly but I think learning about religion is useful. Religion is a fact of life and if everyone can at least learn a little about everyone else�s belief�s maybe the world will be a bit better place.

allan
said

Religion, whether you believe it or not, is part of mankind's history, just like any other subject, and why shouldnt kids learn about it. It is a very important part of mankind.

kenny g timmins
said

religion and god is all man made

Rick
said

Aaahh, Religion.. What better way to teach children to hate, kill and cause wars! It seems to me that abolishing religion and religious practices not only in Quebec and Canada, but world wide is the only way that humans will start to live in harmony.

Sober Second Thought
said

I would rather have the government stay out of religious teaching altogether. They'd probably just do a botch job of it.

Craig from NS
said

It all comes down to what they curriculum consists of. Are they teaching about all religions, including paganism and atheism equally? On the other hand, what happened to separating church and state?

James
said

@Ryan in AB: Mathematics, biology, physics, and chemistry involve empirically proven facts. The concepts taught in these classes are useful both in every day life and as a preparation for post secondary studies. Conversely theology revolves around invisible sky wizards. Religion should be nothing more than a footnote in a civics or history class as it really has no place in a formal education.

Jay
said

Public schools, in all of Canada - not just Quebec, should be completely secular. Religion is something that should not be taught in any public school. Nor should religious services of any kind be allowed in on public school premises. If parents want their children taught religion in schools (Catholic or otherwise) they should have to send them to private (no government funding) Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu or or any other religion.Likewise, non-sectarian, comparative religion courses have no place in publicly funded schools.

KMH
said

Look, even if you do not like it, kids are at some point in their lives, going to be exposed to religion, it will be their choice if they want to practice it or not, but there is no harm in learning about it. I'm for these courses in schools and fully support it.

Laurie
said

and I say to "M"...listen to your own words, do they sound like hatred of people who have faith?

Laurie
said

Take your children out of school. Home school... Or, leave the province like I did where my children's education was not under socialist state control. These are your children and you must not allow the elite socialists to brainwash them according to their views.

Montreal Cynic
said

regardless of your personal religious beliefs, it is important to learn of other religious beliefs. Not to "convert" but to educate. The only way to stop the religion-fuelled violence in the world is knowledge and understanding.

Astro
said

You are all a bunch of sheep for following any religion. Having spirituality is o.k. (and not the same as religion) but forcing children to study convoluted stories from 2000 years ago is backwards. Lets worry about the future with no religion and just live life. Don't worry be happy..god is probably not real.

karen in calgary
said

Freedom of Religion also means Freedom from it, the courts have no business pushing fairytales on vulnerable children and imposing on their rights.

Ryan in AB
said

I also feel that the curriculum infringes on my right to not expose my children to math, english, biology, physics, chemistry, etc. The fact is that this course is not about indoctrinating or pushing a specific religion it is a general introduction to different religions to promote understanding and education. If you don't like the curriculum then home school otherwise get over it and this applies to parents in all provinces.

M.
said

When I was young my parents were fearful of me being influenced by things of a devlish nature. When I have kids I will be fearful that they will be influenced by a religion that there is a sky wizard that makes you hate homosexuals and that his son is a zombie that wants to destroy the world.

PBW
said

I went to elementary and secondary school in Britain, where until 1944, the only compulsory subjects were Religion and Phys Ed. In my secondary school, we studied world religions, not simply Christianity; and in the last years in school, were encouraged to attend religious services at non-Christian places of worship. Consequently I was exposed to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, not to mention the many flavors of Christianity. Knowledge breeds tolerance; ignorance breeds fear. I agree with the SCC: no rights were violated - unless you consider remaining in ignorance a right.

ShannonT(Quebec City)
said

At first i did not think this was the place of the school to teach this. But the young people need to get along and parents in general sometimes have one sided views . Alot more religious schools now for many students.. Even the teachers are all from that faith and support staff too.

NoContest
said

Learning about other religions isn't a problem. As a student you may disagree with some of what you learn in History class but it's better to know about it and form your own opinion than to keep your eyes closed and head in the sand. It's this type of parenting that breeds ignorance and prejudice...literally.

Mike
said

I dont think it is fair to brand this ruling as a "liberal" decision. I am a hard core conservative and fully support this ruling. God forbit that students learn a broad range of views on religion..

Sam C
said

@lwinslow... no, it's about the court establishing that children attending a class that compares various world religions is NOT indoctrination, and offers them a more tolerant view of the world in which they live.

John M London ont
said

Canada schools as a rule should adopt the classesif only to promote understanding among the students. Most dislike is caused by misunderstanding of others.Religion is a powerful motivator for good and for evil deeds all over the world and our children should understand it and how it affects our lives weather you believe in a higher power or not.

Scott in TO
said

Once again, Quebec has the intestinal fortitude to do what the rest of Canada won't.

Janet
said

Ontario should opt for one school board instead of a separate and a public. (would save lots of money too) All kids should take religious and cultural courses that instill more understaning and tolerance of traditions and practices of other people.

Original CAnadien
said

The courses this class is replacing (Catholic/Protestant or moral/citizenship if non Christian) should be brought back. THis new multicultural/religious version goes against what Canada is made from. The superior court AND the parents are wrong on this one. AS for the "constitutionality of the previous version of the calss, it predates the constitution by centuries (Think Ste Marguerite Bourgeoys) so it is not affected by the constitution. We need to go back to immigrants becoming Canadian citizens instead of Canada adopting other's ways.

makes sense
said

kids should learn about religion(s). They don't need to learn the specific doctrine, but they should understand the point of view, history, and modern social context.

Dave in Ottawa
said

Imagine an ethics class in Qubec. Designed and taught by ex-politicians!

Stu
said

What happened to the freedom we used to have in this country, now religion is being forced down our throats. These fairy tales should be banned for schools.

Wilson
said

As a person who is vehemetly anti-religion, I don't see a problem with the nature of this curriculum so long as the courses do not espouse one religious belief over another or try to inculcate the students into a particular religious bent.It's a good thing to introduce young people to the facts of the various religions, that way they can see for themselves how bunk it is before their parents have a chance to warp their minds into a blind belief in senseless foolishness.

Hope
said

It's not the religions part I have an issue with. It's the ethics part. Religion is, for the most part, static, the bible will not change for instance. My issue would be with ethics. A century ago it was ethical to beat women. Before than that it was ethical to treat blacks like animals. I do not want my children to be brainwashed into believing society's views of ethics, because for the most part, they are ever changing. Everyone should be allowed to have their own opinions about ethics. Not what the government says is right.

lwinslow
said

Another example of the Nanny State liberals thinking they know better than parents how a child should be taught and then forcing their heretical opinions upon these parents!

Mike in Ontario
said

This isn't about religion its about understanding different view points and multi-cultural tollerance. I am a Baby Boomer and had this course been available for all of us when we were in school perhaps Quebec and the rest of Canada would have a deeper appreciation and understanding of each others cultural differences. God...we might even get along without the separatists raising their ugly head every 10 years.