Does the long-gun registry prevent suicides?

A former Ontario attorney general reacts to the bill that will kill the long-gun registry, and says scrapping the registry will have an impact on the amount of suicides in Canada.

National Affairs: Dr. Caillin Langmann, medical researcher

A medical researcher that studied violent gun crimes discusses his study and why he believes the long-gun registry is not effective.

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CTVNews.ca Staff

Date: Tue. Oct. 25 2011 9:16 PM ET

The Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians says the gun registry issue is not one of crime prevention, but of suicide prevention.

"As a rural emergency physician and coroner, I can safely say that I've never seen a handgun injury. I have however seen my share of injuries and deaths inflicted by rifles and shotguns. I have felt the pain of investigating a double murder-suicide as a result of escalating domestic violence. Suicide, contrary to public opinion, is often an impulsive gesture. Keeping guns away from depressed people is essential," Dr. Alan Drummond said in an open letter to Parliament.

Former Ontario attorney-general Michael Bryant agreed.

"This is the triumph of ideology over common sense, particularly, due with respect to suicide by guns," he told CTV's National Affairs Tuesday of scrapping the registry.

About 75 per cent of gun deaths in Canada are due to suicide. Suicide by gun has a 90 per cent fatality rate, higher than any other type of suicide.

Drummond says there has been a 23 per cent reduction in Canadian suicides since 1995.

A controversial study by Dr. Caillin Langmann, a resident in the division of emergency medicine at McMaster University, recently argued that there was no link between gun control and Canada's falling homicide rates.

He also argued that people who don't kill themselves with guns, find other ways to do so.

"There is something called a substitution effect, where people will use other methods if they are serious about suicide," he said on National Affairs.

However, Dr. Langmann's study has been criticized because he has had a history of advocacy against the registry.

"The gun registry has hurt and killed people," he wrote in a widely circulated May 2010 letter.

According to the National Post, Dr. Langmann is also a member of the National Rifle Association's Facebook group.

Comments are now closed for this story

Roy
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I am totally in agreement with scrapping the long gun registry even though I do not own a gun myself.Elected politicians can not and should not become baby sitters of our nation which is over governed already,and as for cutting down suicides with a gun or not I will say if I wanted and desired to take my own life there is nothing no one could do to stop me because there are thousands of ways to do it.

Alexandria
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No it does not.The Gun Registry prevents NO crime.If some one wants to kill them selves a registry will do nothing to prevent the taking of a life .The registry is just a way of the Government of fleecing the tax payer legally

Will
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Drummond is drawing a false and misleading conclusion here. A 23% reduction in suicide rates, which he attributes to the long gun registry, can be easily explained as due to public education and mental health efforts. It could also be ordinary variation or even medical intervention. Do we really need to point out the bias of this fellow here? He is an advocate so of course he will draw whatever conclusions he thinks will sway opinion. Take away his soap box until he presents legitimate data. Next thing we know, "Rita" will be blaming the cost of living in Vancouver and the fizzling out of the "occupy" protest movement on the loss of the registry.

Bob T
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If Liberals were really concerned about suicide they would reign in all of the over the counter gambling in this country .

Pat ottawa
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Oh come on, if someone really wants to commit suicide do you really think he'll put the gun in his mouth and then think "I can't do this, this gun is registered!"

TWC
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Nonesense. If a person who had suicidal tendencies couldnt get their hands on a long-rifle it would be something else readily available. Scrap it. It's useless.

Jeff G. from Wellesley
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Google "Long Gun Registry" you will see that it came into effect in 2001. The Canadian Suicide Rate hasn't changed since 2000. Dr. Drummond suggesting that the suicide rate dropped because of the registry is disingenuous. A simple google check will also show that since 1970 the US suicide rate has consistently been lower than Canada's. Is that also because of the long gun registry?

Tim
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How would the registry prevent suicide in the first place? Maybe it's so obvious that I can't see it, but how would placing a gun on a registry prevent the legal owner from turning it on themselves?

Red Deer Chris
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The gun registry does not affect the suicide rate. It is simply a long "paper trail". There are still safe storage of firearms laws in Canada. Those help to prevent suicides. Rather simple actually.

MGreig
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So let me get this straight. One doctor argues for the long gun registry because he supports it.... fair enough. Another doctor argues against it because he does not support it.... this lack of support being a "bias" and therefore making him unreliable? The very act of opposing the long gun registry makes you biased because you oppose it.....

Hunky Dory
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What a load of BS!! If somebody is going to off themselves they will do it! Anyway most suicides are not by guns anyway!!

Prof. Pye Chartt
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Blah. Blah. Blah. Dr. Drummond is a RURAL emergency physician. His non-scientific, anecdotal argument is made silliest by his assertion that he hasn't seen a handgun injury...at his "country" hospital. (Good Lord.) Spare me the irrelevant and/or non-applicable supplemental statistics, especially as they relate to suicide. Criticizing the study of Dr. Langmann, a seemingly more "experienced" physician on the topic, simply because his fact-based knowledge has naturally lead him to a bias against the utility of the LGR, is exceedingly lame. The supportive case behind the LGR is still empty, devoid of empirical evidence, and running contrary to basic intelligence and common sense, given the underlying truths concerning gun possession and usage in Canada. Contrary to popular anti-Conservative (left-wing) sentiments, therefore, it is precisely misguided "ideology" that has always propped up the LGR.

Steve O
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Does the long-gun registry prevent suicides? Of course it prevents suicides & helps keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable but the conservatives just aren't interested in saving lives. Watch the homicide rates explode as soon as the registry is gone. This should be a no brainer obviously the conservatives must have less than no brains.

Shan SK
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A person who is despondent enough about their life won't care whether or not they have their long gun registered before they pull the trigger on themselves. This article is ridiculous! The argument about not seeing any handgun suicides is likely because most people don't have handguns.

Kenny in Ottawa
said
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Ummm... So what is their point? People who had registered guns committed suicide with them - the registry didn't prevent them from doing so. I cannot understand how this is an argument to keep it going, since it clearly doesn't help.Do they think a depressed person is going to think, "I'm going to commit suicide, but I can't use my gun, because it's registered. Damn. I guess I'll have to seek professional help instead."

Steve
said
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Wait a minute, the overall number of suicides has not changed in decades. Explain that one please. A firearm database & pieces of paper does not prevent suicides. Prompt access to mental health services can & does prevent suicides.

Ernie Hushard
said
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To imply that retaining the gun registry will prevent suicides is ludicrous. Reminds me of the time when doctors were called to the scene of an automobile accident and automatically beccame expers on auto safety. Too many individuals today are moving outside their area of expertise and expressing opinions which have no basis is either logic or common sense. Stick with what you know best

Dianne
said
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Long Gun Registry vs Suicides... No, it does not prevent a desperate individual from self destruction. Any means/method is used.

Ken From MB
said
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Do these people not get it. The Registry will not stop anyone bent on killing themselves or anyone else. For once i wish people would think before they open their mouths. It's been proven the Registry is a huge failure, just read head lines about criminals who use illeagal weapons to commit crimes, as well people who do commit suicide, did it stop them....no. What does work is the current PAL system. It's not perfect but it does help with screening people who apply for the gun license.

Mike
said
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"Gun" suicides may have dropped, but overall suicide rates have been rock steady for decades. Spend some time on the Stats Canada web site and you'll see that, lo and behold, people willing to commit suicide are more than capable of finding an effective means of doing so. It's like Prince Edward Viaduct in Toronto. When they put up barriers, the suicide rate at that bridge dropped to zero, while suicide rates at other bridges around it rose accordingly.The question then becomes, what purpose does the registry serve if it only pushes suicidal people to other means? Why don't we divert the $75 million per year currently wasted on the gun registry into mental health initiatives?

Jay
said
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I fail to see the connection between registration of a firearm and suicide prevention. In fact, I have to say that is a poorly thought out, low-ball argument as it basically smacks of biased emotional rhetoric more than logical reasoning. If you are trying to prevent the impulsive decision of a suicide or domestic violence, you practice proper gun safety and you lock your unloaded gun (rifle or handgun) in a locker, put on a trigger lock, and store the ammunition separately. Registration does not mean the individual practices good gun safety at home. To draw a "car registration analogy" as many people are prone to do in this debate, registering your car does not mean you will not do something impulsive with it, like road rage or impaired driving. People's well-being is premised entirely on safe operation of the car, not the registration of it.

scott
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The sole purpose of the long gun registry was to shut up voters who had made gun crime a major election topic. If it wasn't for the cost of this farce reaching somewhere near 3 billion, then nobody would have given a damn. it just proves beyound a shadow of a doubt that canadians really are morons if they think a criminal is going to register their illegal guns. As for suicides, if they can't use a gun, they will find something else. Some are even smart enough to have a cop do it for them.

gimmeabreak
said
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So explain to me again how having a gun registered prevents someone from committing suicide with it....or committing any other crime for that matter.

Paul from Saskatoon
said
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Still missing the point. Most gun owners are for an effective registration of the individual to own a firearm; but not for the useless registration of the firearm itself. Gun violence is a human problem, not a gun problem so let us focus on more effective screening of individuals. As a gun owner I'm forced to jump through ridiculous hoops to register my firearms ... hoops that have nothing to do with my suitability to own them. Being judged suitable to own is a piece of cake.

Rob C.
said
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There are laws that require the safe storage and handling of firearms. When stored correctly the guns are locked up. There is no casual access to the firearm. The abolishment of the long gun registry will change nothing in this respect. It is time the Conservatives lived up to their election promise and get rid of the long gun registry.

JB in Ontario
said
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That is why it is important that everyone should have someone to talk with.

Rob Mazurek
said
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No, the claim that the Long Gun registry prevents suicides is utterly Rediculous. Those who are bent on self-destruction/suicide will use whatever means is at their disposal anyway. The anti-gun Liberal crowd is really grasping at straws here in a very feeble,desperate last ditch attempt to save the data in the registry.

However, the reason why that data cannot be "legally retained" is due to both Privacy laws and Constitutional Rights of those named within that Registry.

The Federal Government cannot retain nor can they "transfer" that personal information without the express consent of those named within that Registry. (See Section 8 and Section 11 of the Charter of rights and freedoms for verification of what I stated)

Jim-Surrey
said
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Hand guns do far more killing than rifles as they are easier to conceal and blowing your head of with a rifle is a little harder to pull the trigger quickly to do it given the over all length of the weapon, in most cases.Unfortunately I have witnessed this and it is not pleasant. If there had been no firearm another method would have been chosen I am sure!

Goldens
said
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What a dumb question! How could anyone think that registering a gun would prevent a suicide?

dan goode
said
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Why not a little dirt on Michael Bryant as the article has done with Dr. Langmann? Taken from Wikipedia,"Bryant was also a strong proponent of a complete ban on handguns in Canada, at one point launching a website named "No Gun, No Funeral." Seems both are biased!!

G.L.
said
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In vancouver, when pedestrian bridges cross over railway tracks, they have to put up suicide barriers even though it's not really common knowledge why they are there.

My point is guns aren't the only way to end life.

peter in mb
said
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If you have to ask that question then you are ether stupid or naive and have most likely never see or touched a gun in you life. Juts have a look at the distance from the trigger to the end of the barrel. This would be an imposable task to do it. Why do you think people use hand guns or other means to kill them self�s

Jake
said
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Gun registry would prevent suicide? Wow! A person wants to kill himself/herself with long gun would stop doing so because the long gun is registered. Good theory. I sure would like to know the statistics on how many people killed themselves with long gun and how many people killed themselves with other means in a year!.So-called experts sure can rationalize and twist statistics to justify their view points. I like to hear that doctor to tell publicly how many suicides he handled a year!. I wonder if all his patients are suicidal and own registered long gun!

shawbrooke
said
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Where is his data? Anecdotal information is not data. We all know that suicide can be the decision of the moment. I gravely doubt whether someone committing suicide says to themselves - oops that gun's registered, can't use it. If guns are not available, pills and hanging are. If we want to curb suicide, then we must look factually at why suicides are up. Get the facts people.

Turfman Jones, Nanaimo
said
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Keeping guns away from depressed people is a matter that licensing and safe storage addresses. The long gun registry has nothing to do with either of those requirements. It's a database for crying out loud. A list! And when it is gone the licensing and safe storage requirements will remain in place. God, gun grabbers are thick.

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