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Greyhound victim's mother concerned for Li's future

Carol de Delley (left), mother of Tim McLean, and family members including his father Tim (centre) talk to media outside the Law Courts in Winnipeg on Thursday, March 5, 2009 after the verdict from the trial of Vince Li, the man who stabbed and beheaded McLean on a Greyhound Bus this past summer in Manitoba. Li was found to be not criminally responsible for killing Mclean. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/John Woods) Tim McLean is seen in a photo taken from his MySpace.com personal page. (THE CANADIAN PRESS) Tim McLean was killed while on board a Greyhound bus on July 30, 2010.
Carol de Delley (left), mother of Tim McLean, and family members including his father Tim (centre) talk to media outside the Law Courts in Winnipeg on Thursday, March 5, 2009 after the verdict from the trial of Vince Li, the man who stabbed and beheaded McLean on a Greyhound Bus this past summer in Manitoba. Li was found to be not criminally responsible for killing Mclean. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/John Woods)

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This shows the flaws in our system. (1) either this guy is a brutal killer or (2) he is absolutely insane. either way he should never see the light of day again. The rights and safety of the public far outweigh his rights.

scott nova scotia

Greyhound victim's mother concerned for Li's future

talking about
Greyhound victim's mother concerned for Li's future

Date: Saturday May. 21, 2011 2:42 PM ET

If not this time around, it could happen next time.

That's the fear Carol de Delley holds about the potential release of Vince Li, the man who beheaded her son, Tim McLean, on a Greyhound bus nearly three years ago.

May 30 will mark the third time de Delley has attended a review board hearing for Li, who was found not criminally responsible for her son's death.

But de Delley is determined to make her voice heard and to bring attention to the fact that Li is slowly gaining more freedom while in custody.

Last year, a review board ruled that Li could take escorted walks around the mental health facility where he is being held. To de Delley, granting such a privilege to Li is the first step towards his future release, a scenario she said she believes would inevitably put public safety in jeopardy.

"I don't believe that he will ever be cured. Managed, controlled, but never cured," de Delley told CTV.ca in a recent telephone interview from her Elie, Man., home.

While she doesn't expect that Li's therapists will push to have him released at this point, de Delley predicts they will ask the board to loosen restrictions on him.

"Now that they've upgraded the facilities to allow him these strolls and they've hired two more highly paid professionals to accompany him on these strolls, I think they'll be asking for a little bit more freedom for him," said de Delley.

The yearly rite of attending a review board hearing and entering a victim impact statement isn't helping her heal, de Delley said, but it is necessary if she wants to play a role in preventing Li from returning to society one day.

"I don't believe that the victim's family should be the one sentenced to having to relive this on an annual basis," de Delley said.

This year's hearing comes at a particularly stressful time for de Delley, as she has recently been preparing for possible flooding at her Manitoba home. Her residence is one of the dozens that were on alert in Manitoba for intentional flooding of farmland in the Portage la Prairie area.

"In comparison to what we've already experienced, this is nothing," de Delley said, referring to the flood.

In the long run, de Delley hopes to push for legal changes that will require people found not criminally responsible of violent crimes to stay locked up.

"These are very, very dangerous, violent killers and they need to be treated as such," she said.

"I think that the humane thing to do is to treat them, to medicate them. But behind locked doors for the rest of their natural lives. Otherwise everybody out there is in jeopardy once they're released."

Comments are now closed for this story

Loiuise
said

I can't believe what people are saying here. People will mental illnesses can be rehabilitated just like anyone else. Chances are if he went to trial he would have been sentenced for manslaughter and be ready to be released anyway. He will not be released as long as he is deemed a threat to himself or others. I suggest everyone who posted here actually educate yourself prior to running your mouth off. You obviously know nothing about the legal system or mental illness and you make Canadians sound like a bunch of rednecks.


Joel Schulz
said

As much as I have empathy for Tim's mother, being a tragedy no parent should face, she is mistaken on the danger factor. The vast majority of forensic psychiatric patients do not re-offend upon release from hospital.

If Li is stabilized, and only if, then he should be given an opportunity to re-integrate with supervision. However, the period between being stabilized and release should be long enough to ascertain that it is for the long term.


Philip V Windosr
said

To all those advocating the death penalty, how long will it take until we execute an innocent person? You can look at the USA today and see people on death row being released after DNA proves their innocence, we'd like to think todays science and criminal system is perfect, but it's no where close.And once we execute an innocent person, we are as a society all murderers, and then by our own paradoxial zeal to kill murders, we all deserve the death penalty.


Dean H
said

I really thought we Canadians had a higher degree of intelellect than evidenced in this forum today. What a disappointment. Notwithstanding the horrible crime that was committed, would some of you posters hold a different view if, say, Mr. Li had Down's syndrome or a mental illness in a visible form? Not criminally responsible means just that - the guy didn't have the capacity to comprehend what he was doing.

And contrary to what some of you believe, it is rarely accepted as a defence in practice. We are not a society of revenge. That is not what the correctional system is about. We do not live in medieval times. comments regarding executing people who have mental illness and commit crimes is as barbaric as the crime that is being discussed in this forum. Educate yourselves Canadians..


Dorian
said

He must not be allowed out, ever!


question for intheknow
said

Why is it in these cases of brutal murders where mental illness becomes an issue do we quite often see two psycological experts. one for the defence and one for the prosecution. and their respective diagnoses (whether criminally responsible or not) seem to be aligned with the lawyer who is paying their fees. ANd at the end of the day we have a judge (a promoted lawyer) who decides if they are criminally responsible or not. I disagree with this wole premise. The courts, the lawyers and the police are not mind readers and as such they should only be involved in determining if the person in question did the crime or not. If there is a question of insanity I suggest that it should be delt with apart from the criminal proceedings in a open forum where the psycological professionals can discuss or debate their points of view in a true scientific fashion and not in a court of law with it's various rules of evidence and proceedure.


Crone
said

We have a legal system that has a process. However, that process requires an overview to protect the rest of society. Too many times there are repeat offenders (due to many causes).

As a mother I am appalled when I see mentally ill people who have committed atrocious crimes or at high risk to reoffend pedophiles allowed back into society (often with a note in the newspaper so the people of the community know the guy is back). Why? So our innocent children can be targeted? Sorry... once you have murdered, maimed or sexually assaulted someone I believe YOUR freedom should be ended in order to protect others. And maybe, as an inmate, you can work to maintain yourself...garden etc. so we dont spend so much $ on you instead of our children and aging parents.


Mark
said

Bottom line is that the guy is nuts and he may crack again. It’s unfortunate but money is the reason they will not keep him locked up. They have to make room for the other nouveau nuts coming in. It’s impossible to measure what his mental state will be in 5 years. No one will be monitoring him then and he will certainly not have “highly paid professionals” looking after him. They will let him go, wipe their hands clean, snap their suspenders and say we moved him along and go to the next case. Thanks for nothing.


dante vancouver
said

Not responsible? That does not apply to the law makers in this case. Be responsible for your own actions and decisions and keep this sick nut incarcerated. You don't cut someones head off cause you are a little sick. You are a lot sick and probably not capable of making responsible decisions. In fact a person that sick manipulates everyone. So if he gets released who is going to be responsible for him?


Elmer in BC
said

Soft bleeding hearts..... keep the man locked up for life. If you don't it will be as I said before there is no justice in the court system. Its oh poor man locked up and there is always more attention given to the perpetrator than the victims.


PIerre D.
said

If I ever snap and eat someone, I would ask the authorities to terminate my life, or at least never allow myself to join the rest of the healthy population. Yes mental illness is real and we should have compassion, but we should not forget that everyone of us has responsibilities towards others. Humans are not predators, they are social animals.


Adam
said

The real criminal in this case is the police officer from Li's hometown who gave him the bus ticket to Winnipeg because the officer didn't like Li's "kind of people" hanging around their redneck town.


Alex
said

I understand what you are saying, Miranda, but imagine it was you who was murdered. or your mother, father, husband, child.Yes, people have mental health problems, yes people do irrational things, but life is short to begin with, and the victims life was cut even shorter, in a horrific way. This man deserves to be helped, but only in the sense that he no longer harms anyone. Mental health issue or not, he does not deserve to live, in my opinion. I suffer from mental health problems, and understand how it can take over- but that does not excuse me from making bad decisions- in the end, I made those choices. Mental health is becomming an excuse, and anyone who is going to stand up for someone who brutally murdered someone else must not comprehend what it is like to lose someone- he had a mother- the victim, I mean. Sad all around, but Li gets to wake up everyday, see the sunshine, feel the wind. The victim is dead. Li deserves to be locked up until he dies to, and maybe then the world will be a little safer. That is, until someone else with "mental health" issues murders an innocent person. Who could be your mother, your father, or maybe even you.


Barbara
said

@ Jack and Kathy ...Where was God, pithy words and all, when this insane man was beheading the victim on a bus, while other passengers were scrambling to get out of harm's way. I happen to agree that forgiveness is better than hate. This is not a matter of hate, but of justice. One insane person has taken the life of an innocent person. He had his chance. He had a free life. He blew it. How many get a second chance? I cannot believe this one is worthy of that rarity ... the second chance ... not when more lives will be put at risk.


Greg K.
said

I wish our legal system could deliver appropriate levels of justice with magnitudes of less cost. I wonder how the deceased victim would feel about the outcomes of this case?


K in Manitoba
said

Anyone who feels compassion for this monster should volunteer to allow him to live with or next door to them and their family if he ever gets out.


In the know
said

It is natural that this level of intensity of emotion come along with a discussion of this nature. However, speaking of the types of outcomes posted here really points to the need for the public to be aware of section 672 and it's subsections of the Canadian Criminal Code, as well as the basis or legal context to which these types of cases are based upon. Taking into account one's mental capacity in relation to a charge has long been a tenent of British law and subsequently Commenwealth law. Re: McNaughton rule and it's subsequent variations.

Truly compassion must be considered for the victims but there is more than one person or group of persons who are the victim in these situations of violent crime. Treating persons found NCR or Unfit for trial due to a mental disorder is not simply a case of "getting away with it". In truth these individuals can serve periods of incarceration far lengthier than if they had been found guilty of a crime. Risk Assessment, treatment and re-integration into the community is a long road with many steps of progression(often very small and lengthy times between steps) - it works and it is supported by the laws of this country. I offer up that you educate yourselves about mental illness, crime and recedivism before we as a society assume that all these individuals found NCR deserve to be locked up and "never see daylight again"


Rachael
said

Mental insanity should not be a way out of being declared not criminally guilty. Rather it should be an immediate free ticket to an execution. Our prisons and tax system do not need the strain of hundreds of thousands of criminals getting a free ride for the rest of their and our lives. Time to bring the death penalty back and stop mollycodeling murderers.


mac ontario
said

I think that Miranda has never had anything happened in her Life, this is absolutely disgusting and should be locked in a cage for the rest of his life , who gives anyone the right to do that to another and say "I am SICK", take a look at previous offenders Miranda , they all seemed okay to get out.


Marg from Med Hat
said

I think, in this case, it is the responsibility of the society to protect its citizens. Li is getting the help and care that he needs. Admittedly, mental illness should not necessarily lead to "life long institutionalization". But in Li's case, for his sake and the sake of the general public, he needs to stay in a care facility for the rest of his life. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.


Brie
said

Jack, this is not about "Forgiveness" this is about the safety of a nation! Forgiveness is a personal journey.


Christina
said

Agreeing with Miranda. Yes, what happened was a big tragedy but people with mental illness aren't horrible people - mental health is something that can be managed and this man should be given the opportunity to try to medically deal with whatever conditions he has.


Gerry from m.b. but not n.d.p.
said

Its socialism.


Marcia
said

Well said Miranda!


CG in NB
said

In New Brunswick we had a guy who murdered someone and used then mentally illness card. He served a few years and was released. Approximately 10 years after his release he murdered his neighbour. I just can’t imagine what the victim’s relatives and friend think when they hear articles like these.


Ron J.
said

Canadians are a weak bunch. They spend their time feeling sorry for the accused like he's a poor puppy at a animal shelter. They don't care about how weak our system is until they themselves are victims. Have you ever noticed how those affected by the system always end up unsatisfied with it? Once you see what actually goes on behind the doors of our justice system, you lose the "poor puppy" mentality. There are so many things wrong with our justice system, it will take years and many more victims to straighten it out. Unfortunately, Canadians are too weak to do what's really necessary.


Miranda
said

And how many people commenting are mental health professionals, I wonder? I agree that while Li is still a risk to society he should remain incarcerated, and that may be forever I don't know. HOWEVER that is for the Doctors who are treating him to decide. Sometimes with the proper treatment and medication people with severe mental illnesses can function in society.I feel for the victim's family, I really do, but I also feel for this man. He obviously didn't understand or comprehend what he was doing and if the Doctors are able to help him to the point he can function normally he's going to realise what he's done and have to live with that for the rest of his life.This is just a terrible situation all around and demonising someone for actions they couldn't control doesn't help anyone.


Diane
said

This is absolutely disgusting that this man is allowed outside.I guess maybe when he takes someone elses life they will say "Whoops"He gets to murder someone then hold a whole city hostage with fear.Insane.


Larry I Ontario
said

Laws must be changed so a brutal killer like this one never walks the streets again. The victoms on this crime should never suffer and having some freedoms given to this horrible muderer is just not right.


CMB
said

Greyhounds new security is a farce. I sell beer to people who are bus passengers. I've ridden the bus in MB and the only place they did a security screening was wpg. Sad part is, there were too many people for one bus, and while waiting for a second bus to show up, the secruity screeners were sent home. No screening for the second bus.


Rroneill
said

He should never ever see the light of day…ever


Jack
said

God said to Forgive, not to Hate.


Tom Hanna
said

Being found not criminally resposible pretty much means they don't ever have to let you go if they don't want to. I knew of a fellow on one of these review boards and he, unlike the legal system, sums it up this way, "would you want this guy living next to you"?


scott nova scotia
said

This shows the flaws in our system. (1) either this guy is a brutal killer or (2) he is absolutely insane. either way he should never see the light of day again. The rights and safety of the public far outweigh his rights.


spaz
said

Reading this sad story does not give me any confidence in our ability to protect the public from dangerous offenders. This man's actions were beyond rehabilitaion. There are cases where the death penalty is the best solution


JPC from Sask
said

How the heck can a man who decapitated someone on a bus ever walk free???? Hope the Cons fix this sort of legal garbage...


meghan
said

Well stated Ms. de Delley. Individuals who suffer from mental illness absolutely deserve to be treated as such, however we need to be diligent in how we manage them if they do indeed pose a threat to public safety. An individual who gets drunk at home is far less dangerous to the public at large than if they were behind the wheel of a vehicle. The same logic needs to be applied to offenders.


Kathy
said

Very well said Frank! I agree!


Donaldbain
said

Why are victims families put through this? How much does it cost to keep Li in an institution, now with two new handlers to watch him? Why are we paying to help this murdering piece of crap and torturing his victims family on an annual basis? Li owes society a debt, not the other way around. He should never be freed, ever.


Caper
said

This guy should never see the light of day again. I'm so sick of reading of murders committed and the person responsible gets away with it because THE MENTAL ILLNESS CARD comes into play? What a joke! If you take someone's life away sane or not?You should be locked up for life or at least prevented from returning to everyday life, I mean for crying out loud look what he did to the poor man, releasing him should never be an option!


Frank Buchan
said

She's right, sadly. Some day, probably sooner than anyone can fathom, this murderer will walk free. For these very rare cases, we need some form of permanent incarceration (with treatment) to avoid another psychotic break taking another life, because whatever ails this guy isn't going to be cured, and as soon as his stressors act upon him, he'll toss his medication and probably do worse than before. It's so very sad we have such little compassion for victims in this society.


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