No one has an automatic right to marry: Pope

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No one has an automatic right to marry: Pope

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CTV News Channel: Pope addresses modern-day marriage issues

Pope Benedict is urging priests to do a better job at pre-marriage counseling in an effort to prevent break-ups.

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Pope Benedict XVI, right, meets with members the Roman Rota, the Vatican tribunal that decides marriage annulments, at the Vatican, Saturday, Jan. 22, 2011. (AP / Osservatore Romano, HO)

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sun. Jan. 23 2011 8:21 AM ET

Pope Benedict has asked Catholic priests to do a better job preparing people for marriage, saying that no one has an automatic right to wed.

Benedict said the Catholic Church should make sure those who decide to get married will be able to make the marriage last.

He made the comments on Saturday to the Roman Rota, the Vatican's tribunal on marriage annulments.

In the case of an annulment, the church effectively declares that a marriage never took place.

Benedict said that it is difficult to identify problems that would allow a marriage to be annulled in advance, but better pre-marriage counselling could help avoid a "vicious circle" of invalid marriages.

Benedict said the right to a church wedding requires a couple intends to be authentic and truthful in their marriage.

"The church and society at large place too much importance on the good of marriage and the family founded on it to not make a profound commitment to it pastorally," he said.

Benedict's comments on marriage came one day after he put pressure on Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi over his dalliances with young women.

On Friday, Benedict said that public officials must set a good moral example for society, but did not mention Berlusconi by name.

His comments came on day after a bishop said the Vatican was concerned about the scandal.

Berlusconi is currently being divorced by his second wife, Veronica Lario.

With files from the Associated Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Major Banford
said

CD from AB you clearly missed the point the Pope was trying to make, likely why you are hiding your true reason for leaving the Catholic Church. No where does the Pope say he or the church has the right to dictate to people who they can love. What he is clearly saying is that the church needs to do a better job in preparing people for marriage, to make sure they are truly in love and prepared to make a life long decision. The Catholic Church and many of us who are not Catholic still consider marriage a life long decision, yet sadly based on the divorce rate, society does not see it that way. I for one applaud the Pope in this decision, and any decision that says they need to do better, it shows a humility in that they can do better and need to better. I hope that sentiment rubs off onto society as well...

Borpo
said

No one has to listen to the pope, either.

Jenn the Humanist
said

I don't think we should be taking moral guidance from people who believe in invisible beings and embrace "sacred" scriptures that promote hatred (and even death) of non-believers and homosexuals.

Barry Heath
said

actually this pope is wrong,marriage is a fundamental human right!period!

Dave in Edmonton
said

Interesting comments. As a Catholic, I can tell everyone here that I am not enslaved by the Pope, so don't worry folks, call off the search party... I personally choose to be a Catholic, and know many who choose to not be one, I don't think the Pope has sent his minnions out to their house to force them to believe anything, I could be wrong though... I'd also like to point out that I make my own decisions in life, when my wife lets me of course, but that is for another discussion. I do find it ironic how those so against religion tell those who are religious that they should stop and 'think for themself'. Isn't ironic that those who preach freedom of thought are telling others what to do and how to think? Basically, if you aren't Catholic, why did you even bother to read this story? post an opinion in it? What the Pope tells Catholics and Priest will not affect your world in any way, you can still go to Vegas and get Elvis to marry you if you want, I don't think Elvis is 'enslaved' by the Pope...

Tyler in Winnipeg
said

I have not read all the comments, but it seems the vast majority of people appear to be misunderstanding the Pope's position here. He is not claiming that people do not have a right to civil marriage, but rather the Catholic Sacrament of Matrimony. Certainly his comments apply elsewhere, but when addressing the Roman Rota, it is necessary to understand this context. Moreover, an annulment is not a divorce. It is the recognition by the Church that true matrimony between a couple never existed. For instance, if the bride or groom cheats then they have violated their vows and thus a valid Sacrament never occurred in the first place. Of late it is common to chastise the Church, but I encourage those who post blanket statements about the inability of celibate priests to council on the religious aspects of matrimony to do their homework about the traditional role of a cleric of any religion.

Dale
said

How about no automatic right to have children?Because a lot of people shouldn't!

Alberta M
said

haha, this is so funny shouldn't this guy be preaching the goodness of the holy than thou book in the church and make everything seem we can move forward but instead putting us back a century then telling everyone to live by his standards. this is crazy talk of extremes. i think the church should stay out of politics it will cause bad news to everyone and it wont be good.

Average Joe
said

Wasn't Pope Benedict a member of the youth Nazi Party? Well this recommendation is a perfect encore to his past. When he admits his priests have been slaughtering our children and Native Canadians then I'll take anything he says for consideration. In the mean time it would be nice to see the leader of the catholic faith come out of his enclave to meet and greet the world. Unless of course the weight of his transgressions has turned him into a coward who needs to hide.IMO the world is beginning to wake up. People will soon understand they do not need to be followers and consuming sheep. 9-5 jobs, dinner, TV and sleep. Life is much more than the institutions lead you to believe. Wake up sleepers and know you are the masters of our reality, not these of stuffed shirt holier than thou pillars of the ancient world!

John
said

There is nothing wrong with the Pope's comments. People today take marriage too easily and erode the entire institution. The Roman Catholic church administers the sacrament of marriage and has a duty to ensure that it remains a respected part of people's religious lives. Remember that in the Catholic religion it is the binding of two people under an oath to God. If you want to get married and are not comfortable proving the truthfulness and your readiness for this important act, then by all means go elsewhere to get married. There are plenty of protestant and non-denominational churches and public officals who would be glad to marry you without any screening.The comments here sound more like the rantings of people with nothing better to do then yell at the sky and demean anything that doesn't match their beliefs. Take a few seconds, think about the reasoning behind the decision, come to an informed opinion and then finally discuss it in a rational and polite manner.

Kevin
said

I think it is hilarious that all the anti Catholics like to weigh in with an opinion on how the church runs itself. If you aren't Catholic - you don't have a dog in the fight. The Catholic church is determining that they need to be more selective on who they allow to get married. If you want to tell the church how it has to work, then the church is allowed to tell you how to live. Don't like it? Shut up.

CD from AB
said

Please understand my remarks as a born and bred catholic who decided to leave the church because of the hypocrisy. The idea that a bunch of celibate cronies can have any influence on who loves whom and what legal matters are entailed from country to country in laughable.The days of organized religion separating itself from the concept of spirituality are upon us. The catholic church, along with the rest of the religions of the world ought not to focus on the survival of the faith, but the betterment of the individuals in society. Every time the catholic management come out with one of these comments is another time they trip over medieval versus modern thinking. We have worked with the separation of church and state - we should work on the separation of religion versus individual responsibility and freedom.

Richard in New Brunswick
said

It is a profound amazement to me that so many allow themselves to be dominated by such self-styled "authorities" as the Pope. Why do so many people not realize that the ONLY influence or authority that the Pope, or anyone else without a gun in their hand, actually has is that which they allow them to have? Followers. Followers. Followers. Sheep. Sheep. Sheep. Good grief, people, THINK FOR YOURSELVES! If you don't know how, LEARN HOW.

sinbad
said

Hmmmmm. What interesting comments. Because a priest is celibate, he therefore knows nothing of marriage and is therefore unqualified to guide and counsel people either contemplating or in marriage situations.Does this mean that a counselor cannot work with someone dying of AIDS unless he also has AIDS? Or perhaps even more telling, that same counselor cannot offer comfort and support to a dying person unless he or she has died, and therefore knows what the experience is?

Diane
said

It should be quite obvious to most NA Roman Catholics that the leaders of their brand of religion are out to lunch on just about every issue of spirituality as it relates to the bible. Truth and relationship are one thing and "religion" is a whole different subject.

Michael (Ottawa)
said

@Sam C: Thank you Sam for mentioning the "Church and State separation" issue. Most people throw that term around but haven't a hot clue what "Separation of Church and State" was originally intended to achieve. Those who use that term now generally just want nothing to do with God and intend it to mean freedom from "religion" or anything to do with God. They need to go back to school including most journalists who don't understand the term or its original intent. Thanks for pointing that out.

adrifter
said

No problem with a church setting the rules on its marriage ceremonies. It can't stop a couple from marrying elsewhere. So no big deal. However, the Roman Catholic practice of anulments is preposterous and hypocritical.. It's just divorce by another name.

Old Ted
said

What the pope is saying is true but he also has to remember that there is a LOT of house cleaning to be done from the vatican on down. What's that saying about living in a glass house?

Sam C
said

"Separation of state and religion is not for nothing." Sorry, but the "separation of church and state" is an American ideal proposed by Thomas Jefferson to ensure that no one denomination became the "official religion" of the US. There is no "separation of state and religion" in most countries, including Canada. In fact, in most countries religion and the state are very much intertwined.

manoza
said

If you don't like the Catholic Churche's rules, go to city hall and get married.

shawbrooke
said

Whoever said "Oh get over yourselves, all of you. If you are not of the Catholic faith, his comments have nothing to do with you." was oh so right.

mojo
said

Oh get over yourselves, all of you. If you are not of the Catholic faith, his comments have nothing to do with you. It would be no different if the comments were those of a Rabbi, Minister or head of any other religion. Marry whowever you wish, try and make it work and when it doesn't you can add your name to the ever-rising divorce stats in Canada.

Cara B, NS
said

Why do all you people care? The term "marriage" means something different to different people and different groups of people. To the Roman Catholic church it means a specific thing and I cannot for the life of me fathom why anyone would care what is required to be "married" in the Roman Catholic church if they don't BELIEVE in their teachings in the first place. Their vow means nothing if you don't believe in the first place. Go get married somewhere else, where they have vows and requirements that match your beliefs. It is no wonder there are so many divorces if people take vows that have no meaning for them.

Richard
said

@Alphalpha

What is a role model, but someones personal choice to follow them. Organized religions simply choose to have a position that someone gets appointed to.

Society itself chose this model and those who subscribe to the catholic faith choose or choose not to follow the pope.

Casting everyone in the same brush, instead of as individuals with their own thoughts and opinions on any given mater seems to becoming more and more the norm in today's society. Its all left wing this or right wing that, instead of here's an issue, here's whats happening, and lets figure out what we need to do to get it fixed.

For this issue its why do we have such a high divorce and annulment rate on marriages? And the Catholic church is doing something proactive to address this but people complain about it for all the wrong reasons.

Frankly I would love to see the government step in on this issue as well and force legislation making it harder and harder to get marriage licenses for people who are chronically getting divorced or their marriage annulled. Divorces are NOT good for society and society as a whole needs to stand up one person at a time and do something about fixing the (divorce rate) problem.

CANADIAN IMMIGRANT
said

I READ THE ARTICLE AND THE COMMENTS - AND I REREAD THE ARTICLE. I BELIEVE THAT WHAT THE POPE WAS SAYING IS THAT, BEFORE A MARRIAGE IS PERFORMED, THE COUPLE SHOULD GO THROUGH A PROCESS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT MARRIAGE MEANS IN THE RELIGIOUS CONTEXT AND THE SOCIAL STANDING. "MARRIAGE IS SACRED" THERE IS NO STOPPING OF MARRIAGE - IT IS YOUR RIGHT - BUT DO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE?

jennywren
said

With the record of child abuse the Catholic church has what makes the Pope think that the Priests are good judges of who can make a lasting marriage.

Lew in Delta BC
said

First the church tells you that if you have a child out of wedlock, you are sinful. Then the church says that you don't have a right to be married. So the church is essentially telling you that you don't have a right to have children, unless the church gives you the OK. Anyone who follows the dictates of an illogical, hypocritical old man in a funny hat and robes trying to enforce fantastic fairy tales written over two thousand years ago by similar old men to keep the flock in line deserves to have offspring; but those who can think for themselves don't?Hilarious....

ClintonHammond
said

Asking a pope about marriage is like asking a vegetarian about cooking steak. Nothing that old man has to say is relevant to modern life.

firstMicke;y
said

And the Pope has had experience with marriage?

Knotta Phan in ON
said

I'll assume that when he says "no one has an automatic right to wed" he is speaking as the leader of the catholic faith, to the followers of said faith, and those of us who are not of this persuasion can continue to ignore this and the other jems that whaft out of Catholic Command Central. I do have some admiration for this man though, he still subbornly believes in his own relevance.

KantsRant
said

Thankfully, the power of religious organizations to enforce their world-view upon western societies is non-existant. To those who subscribe to believe in the proclamations of their religious leaders (so long as they are legal), so be it. That is their choice. But, I politely request that people who choose to live dogmatic religious lives leave the rest of us in peace. There is nothing more socially annoying than having to listento/defend against the rantings of a zealot!

Richard
said

The thing about this for me is that it makes perfect sense. Too many marriages, Catholic or otherwise should never have happened to begin with.For some reason the vows do not mean what they used to mean for people but they still take them. If people are not willing to live up to the vows they shouldn't be taking them in the first place.Personally I feel its about time the Church is coming out and publicly stating this. Its something people should already have known before coming to them to get married to begin with after all.

URU
said

How about No pope can tell society what to do except the people he enslaves which are his followers. UNtil than the pope shouldn't be speaking so proudly who he can and can't control.

I do...I did
said

Organized religion frightens me. Each religious sect convinced that their own traditions and rituals are the only ones in the eyes of their God. My spouse and I got married in the garden, by the justice of the peace 36 years ago. We didn't need the church to tell us how to love and respect each other.

Alphalpha
said

OK, so let me get this straight : a person who doesn't have a right to marry (i.e. priest) should make sure that he only presides over weddings that will stand the test of time. What a joke ! This is simply another way of exerting control over society. And the Church will wonder why young people are leaving... Pope Benedict's viewpoints and opinions are generally a step back from those of his predecessor. Although I didn't agree with all of Pope John Paul II's opinions, I still think he was more modern and compassionate than the current pope. The current guy will drive even more people away. Congratulations.

Darryl Wilson
said

@ Paul Kitchener - very well said! This issue has nothing to do with hypocrisy or larger scandals involving the Catholic church. This is about the greater social massacre that is happening in our society which is a divorce rate that exceeds 50%. Can anyone in this forum - religious or not - honestly claim that a divorce plagued society is a good thing? The impact this has had on families and children (who do not choose to be in such positions) is detrimental to their adult life and future relationships. Someone has to do a better job of teaching people how to lead better relationships. The church is by no means perfect and they have had their share of scandal but until the State chooses to take the lead and deal with the issue of failing relationships in our society perhaps through better education in our high schools on psychology, interpersonal relationships, communication, or sociology to name a few, let`s not blast the church for trying to help on an issue that has impacted almost every single one of us or at least someone we know. It`s a failing in our society to not acknowledge the importance of EQ in our lives. If the church doesn`t do anything, then raising children for healthy relationships is left up to parents who never knew how to have them to begin with. Now let`s talk about who is a good role model! The Catholic church in spite of its many failings has also had many successes and before people criticize it, try and find another organization that has been able to tackle such sensitive issues with a flawless record. If they don`t try and set an example, who will? Who will speak for the defenseless child?

blueing
said

The pope says a "good moral example". Is this guy for real? Isn't this the guy who heads the organization who's employees molested little children and then protects the molester. From his actions the only thing that he could show a couple is to lie, cheat, steal and then deny it all in the name of....

Bonnie Talan
said

Well, everyone does have a right to marry, but everyone may not be prepared to marry if all the precana conferences do is focus on how to handle the money issue in a marriage.The Pope might want to think about allowing priests to marry so they would know what they are talking about when they adivse those who wish to marry. It is mighty difficult to know what marriage is all about when one is not married, or involved in a love relationship. Money, honey is not the only thing married people have problems with...

bc grrl
said

you don't need a priest to marry you and follow the faith of the catholic church in order to have a good happy/healthy marriage. we chose the way of a civil marriage, performed by a woman (married 32 years herself at the time, 3 children 4 grandchildren) in a lobby of a best western hotel in vernon on a snowy sunday morning. it was fate that brought us together and it is love and continued communication that keeps us together! to make a good marriage lies in the hearts of those in the marriage! the more the pope speaks (too much wealth is a sin, actively involved in cover ups, hypocritical sycophant) the more young people are driven away from the nature of the church! i met a girl from germany, young and catholic with the firm belief that there is to be no marriage before sex...but it's ok, she can always confess on sunday and make it like it never happened! what a path to follow...i prefer to be a wicca, at least we are honest with ourselves!

Barry Heath
said

this man has zero credibility when talking a moral issue...he has alienated young catholics and ruined the work of John Paul II ....this man should worry about his own evil and sinful house before he can shed a tear for others..how pathetic a man

unmarried
said

no one has an automatic right to marry....but everyone has a right to have kids

Wilbo
said

He should propose his associates marry and reduce grief,pain & legal costs for tax payers

sandalista
said

That is hilarious! So if I understand correctly, priests who are not allowed to marry and therefore have absolutely no experience, are urged to give advice to couples about being married. The church never ceases to entertain...

ME in ontario
said

If the Catholic Church doesn't change its antiquated ways there will soon be no Catholic church at least in North America. The Catholic Church needs to get out of the dark ages and come into today.I was born and raised Catholic and while I believe in the church doctrine, I have ceased to believe in its clergy and have no respect for them.Just who is this pope who thinks he can dictate who should and should not be married. People are no more likely to follow what he says in this as they are to follow the churches edict about birth control

tc
said

@paul ~ kitchener - congrats to you and your wife. However, there are a lot more people on this planet who do not subscribe to the catholic church or even any religion so guess what? the catholic church certainly has no monopoly on saying who can be "married" and who cannot and marriage in many forms has nothing to do with some god or church ordaining it as such. So for this guy to turn around and dictate who can and cannot be married based on the catholic church doctrine is a load of crap. Many societies and religions have different ways of doing marriage and there is no one real way. As well, many marriages not performed by this guys "approved catholic church way" have lasted just as long or longer than many done by the catholic church.

B. Kelley, Ontario
said

Marriage is a legal right on a civil basis within the laws of the country and is universally available through public offices. Being married in the confines of any non-public organization such as a church, on-board a cruise ship or in someone's back yard is a privilege that may or may not be granted and is not a matter of right for anyone. If a church, Catholic or Protestant, wants to set a criteria for being allowed the privilege of being married within their organization then that is their right to do so and it should be respected. Public opinion may be interesting but churches, service clubs and other private entities ultimately make the decision on what is best for them and don't need to ask for the public's blessing. When that right is finally eliminated, and I expect that it will be, we will know that our society is in real trouble.

Tom (Kingston)
said

The sand is running out on the term "marriage." It will not be long before the meaning is convoluted and have no meaning worldwide. The clock is ticking.I am a RC and I believe in marriage before two adult "human beings", may it be same gender or not. The marketing and glamour of it all over the years as escalated via Hollywood and the media has made it all a farce. No to mention that people and organisations who have exposed skeletons from their closets should not be giving advise to others. Peace.

Clarification needed
said

"The Church must hold this ceremony aligned with the scriptures.." As one who is intimately acquainted with the scriptures please show me one scripture that tells anyone they should not marry, or proceed slowly, or with caution etc. There isn't one scripture to that effect. There are scriptures that advise a husband and a wife once they are married and that when a man finds a wife its a good thing. Unfortunately once again the Roman religion is on its own uncharted and unscriptural path leading people into more religious "do's and don'ts" never prescribed by Jesus Himself. This pope speaks ONLY for adherents of the Roman religion, NOT Jesus or His invisible church of believers. Let's make it abundantly clear that the Pope does not speak for Christianity, He speaks solely for Roman Catholicism a quasi-christian man made religion which "holds it traditions on a par of higher than the scriptures" (Vatican II) and as such does not represent biblical Christianity as taught by Christ in His scriptures. It is vitally important to make that distinction. The RC religion is free to do and say whatever they like as long as they dont try to usurp the scriptures and replace them with mans tradition and nullifying Christs teachings. Thank you.

Rev. Campbell
said

To Paul from Kitchener:Thank you for your impassioned comment, but with one quick call to your city hall, I think you will very easily find out that the church is not the only institution with the right to perform marriages.

Ella-Max
said

It's hard to take a former member of Hitler Youth who now wears little red designer Prada shoes seriously.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Catholic priests, and the Church, given all the unforeseen and variable influences, are not properly equipped to determine whether or not a couple ultimately has what it takes to stay together "forever." The notion is laughable. Stick to monitoring your own behavior, folks. Thanks.

TwoDogGuy
said

In the past Popes have said things that I have found relevant and even interesting. Over the years everything they say is now overshadowed by layers and levels and revelations of abuse and deception and secrecy and sleight of hand that they now have NO credibility and no relevancy for me whatsoever. None.

Gomtor
said

I agree with the Pope that premarital counselling is of great importance. You cannot jump into marriage emotionally, it only leads to pain and destruction down the road, not only for the spouses but also for close relatives, friends and, even worse, children. While it offers no guarantee, it helps. I do find it hard, though, to understand how priests that never married can offer practical advice on a matter such as marriage. Book-knowledge is kind of second-hand, distant and questionable. You need to know what you are talking about when you give advice to others.

Mandosa
said

"On Friday, Benedict said that public officials must set a good moral example for society," Or better yet, public officials should just be moral..period. Never more true was the old adage: "in a democracy the people get the government they deserve"

Paul ~ Kitchener
said

I don't agree very often with the HEAD OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, but, on this issue he is "Dead Right". The Church is the only sanctioned body to perform "Marriage" as this institution was "God / Church Ordained". The Church is responsible, to making sure any couple married is prepared to take on the role of "Committment", and this the world rejects today.Divorce or Annulement should be the very last option, (after full investigation and justified by scripture). Too many marriages are dedicated in a Church, when both parties are not practicing members of the faith.The Church has walked away from its responsibility to Teach & Lead in marriage to the faithful. None believers in Christ should not be allowed the sacred vows of marriage by any ordained member of the cloth.Marriage in the Church is a social activity and a nice location for picture taking ~ not ~ what this holy obligation is about. The Church must hold this ceremony aligned with the scriptures and teach & lead young couples into it slowly and each ready to "Commit to a life's journey". My wife and I did in 1959, and we are still on our marriage journey, & we each can repeat our vows today as we did then. Church Leaders take your ordination seriously, and make marriage the real union, of a male and female as Christ Ordained.

Jack R
said

Yes, because when I need advice on marriage the first person I would turn to is an unmarried Catholic male who spent his entire life in celibacy...nuff said.

Cleo
said

Does anyone listen to the Pope anymore? I don't think so!! Annulments are a joke-if you have lots of money, you can get an annulment. E.G. Frank Sinatra, Robert Kennedy Jr. etc. A joke!

Trevor in the Hat
said

Yeah, because the Catholic church sets such a GREAT example in regards to moral behaviour. Tell me, was counselling available to priests before some of them became pedophiles? Was councilling avaialble to the Vatican before they tried covering it up?

Oxie
said

The Pot ...calling... The Kettle Black. Gee...

Pugfire
said

Obviously individuals who are not allowed to marry and therefore do not know firsthand the trials and tribulations of a marriage are the prefect individuals to council others on marriage. This farcical religious "WE KNOW BEST" stuff is getting more and more weird on an almost daily basis. I suggest their days are numbered.

tc
said

This guy is unbelievable. He is the ultimate of hypocrisy. He is the head of an organization that has had more than its share of scandal, corruption and more over the past 2000 years, including covering some of these up himself. Yet he feels he has the moral right to dictate how others should behave and live. A long look in the mirror and cleaning up his own house is in order first.

M@
said

"On Friday, Benedict said that public officials must set a good moral example for society, but did not mention Berlusconi by name." Yes public officials should set an example... and maybe Berlusconi shouldn't be sleeping around with very young girls.... However I think that Benedict also needs worry about the example his priests are setting by molesting all of those young boys!

David, Mississauga
said

Of course unmarried, celibate priests would be best able to advise people on marriage.

Eric
said

"Oh sorry we dont think your marriage will last, here take this course on how to be a good spouse. After you pass we will talk." Ya, this is going to attract more people to the faith.

Jaap
said

Luckely you cannot marry in our churches. This is forbidden by law as it should be everywhere....... Separation of state and religion is not for nothing. How can an old man decide who to marry and who not..... Human rights are unalienable and not for clergy to decide.

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