Canada's real health costs hidden, unsustainable: IMF

The International Monetary Fund released a report today with high praise for Canada' economic recovery. The report also warned that record-high personal debt levels and out-of-control health care costs could derail the positive progress Canada has made.

CTV News Channel: Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal MP

Liberal Health Critic Ujjal Dosanjh reacts to the IMF report on Canada's health care system, saying it isn't as dire as many believe it to be and that the system is sustainable.

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Tom Hockin of the International Monetary Fund appears on CTV News, Wednesday, Dec. 22, 2010.

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... and Canadians should tell the IMF to mind its own Republican-controled business and leave our health care be. Don't they have more pressing issues with oil-rich, third-world banana republics to deal with?

Zorglubsky

Tell Canadians the truth about health costs, says IMF

talking about
Canada's real health costs hidden, unsustainable: IMF

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Dec. 22 2010 7:15 PM ET

Governments at the provincial and federal level have not been honest with Canadians about rising health care costs that will someday swamp budgets, the International Monetary Fund warns.

The organization, which is based in Washington, states that with escalating medicare costs and an aging population, Canada's health-care system is unsustainable.

Accordingly, provinces need to be more upfront with Canadians about the true nature of the costs and the best practices for ensuring service can be maintained in the future.

The warning came as the IMF issued its end-of-year report into Canada, which was largely favourable compared to many other nations.

If the current model of absorbing costs silently continues, the IMF states that Canada will be overrun with health costs.

Talk about cutting healthcare has been considered political suicide for decades, and discussion about a semi-private system has long been met with the pejorative "two-tier" moniker stemming from concern about different service levels.

However, the IMF is not alone in its concern, as many think-tanks have issued similar reports in recent years.

But the IMF says that the current model of putting off hard decisions is wrong-headed.

"(IMF directors) encouraged the authorities to increase communication about the attendant challenges to improve public awareness," says the report.

"Increasing transparency and communication about these challenges and their long-run implications would help to increase public awareness and contribute to the debate about possible solutions."

In 2014, the current provincial-federal health arrangement expires, meaning a new agreement will need to be drawn up.

However, the federal government has been criticized for suggesting that transfer payments to the provinces won't increase above the current rate, which is six per cent annually.

In the short-term, however, the IMF said that Canada's economy was performing well relative to other countries.

However, a few "key risks" were identified by the IMF.

"Risks are elevated and tilted to the downside with high household debt levels the main domestic risk, and a weaker U.S. outlook the largest external risk," the report says.

A correction in the housing market, which is overheating, is also a possibility.

"That said, with most mortgages being 'rollover' mortgages with terms of at most five years, any future interest rate increases could put additional strains on already highly indebted households."

Comments are now closed for this story

De Waarheid
said
0 0

Health care is already non sustainable due to many reasons, the biggest one being the outrageously high salaries paid to doctors, nurses and medical staff. Cuts of 50% would put the wages more in line with reality . As likely to happen as big improvements in universal health care.

Joe
said
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Hahaha. The IMF has to realize that it's just mismanagement of the system causing costs to rise. Governments have used cutbacks and delay in treatment tactics which don't work with a growing population. If healthcare was properly managed and focused on speedy service then costs would actually drop.

And I'm suspicious of an USA base organization just looking to keep the failing money focused healthcare system running their. Focus on healthcare - not on billing people $5 for an aspirin.

Josef Stalin
said
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Well, where can we get more money for health care? more taxes?? I don't think so, How about getting rid of useless entity's such as Senate, and Governor General, then send all that wasted money to the Health Care, and Voila!! all your money problems solved!! Plus the added benefit of not be upset everytime your hear about those 'fat-cats' waisting our taxe money!

Albertaboy111
said
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Well, here in Alberta for example, I have been saying this quite a while. It's not that hard to see through. They face a lot of pressure from American Insurance company lobby groups to privatize healthcare so they can get a share of the profits. I suspect the same thing is happening in all the provinces. They know Canadians love having Universal healthcare, and do not want to see it go, however that sentiment is not shared by the government. The plan for quite a while has been to underfund it as much as possible, all the while making it seem like they are trying to fix it. A point will come where we have no choice but to privatize it as the entire system is bankrupt. It's not a conspiracy. It's common knowledge. But then again, maybe millions of dollars being spent on lobbyists every year isn't intended to dismantle our public healthcare and replace it with private. Maybe the Insurance Companies just have our interests at heart and are willing to spend money to protect them.

anne
said
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for all of you poopooing quebec paying for invitro fertilization, realize how much MORE it costs if people do it privately and have 2-6 premature babies. we pay for those, sometimes running into the millions per baby. id much, much rather spend 90k on one baby than millions on 8. it may seem awful to pay for people to breed, but they will do it anyhow. might as well make sure they dont pay to have as many eggs shoved inside them at a time as possible until people like that can see their sense of entitlement to breed is wrong.

JMC
said
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well gee if the IMF says so, it must be true. Let's just dissolve Canada and let the international bankers lead us into New World Order with our tails between our legs and our hands bound.

Vince M
said
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Jimmy. The healthcare systems in the UK and France pay less per capita and (especially in France) deliver superior results in emergency room waits and surgical delays than ours. France also has lower infant mortality and a longer life expentency than we do. Both countries incidently have private options, so dismissing the private element has proven to be wrong headed. We have to be open to of private care for those that can afford it. To continue on the same path is madness and will lead to ruin as we all grow older. Remember, the older we get the sicker we get and the less tax we pay to meet these growing costs. It is our children that will be paying for our health care, not us.

David L
said
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The IMFis like the FED only global , no wonder this thinking comes from them !!

Jen - Florida
said
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Though an interesting discussion, Canadians should never complain about their health care system. I am a health care professional (Canadian) currently working in the US. The US system is terrible unless you are very wealthy. I can't wait to move back to Canada and I'd gladly pay more in taxes for health care. I have patients who are flatly denied coverage by for-profit insurance companies - and for simple, basic procedures. The companies would rather pay for a hospital bed and wheelchair, then pay for the rehab for a stroke patient.

Bea
said
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pete
"marc toronto said 62 22 This is funny a US organization lecturing us on health care.Yet another report on cancer survival puts us at the top of the world again for healthcare"
===================
Not the 'top of the world'. It was a study of 6 countries. Canada ranked third.

Curt
said
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The truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes that most of the comments bring up. The left needs to realize that there are lots of efficiencies that can be found that don't lower standards of care. (Ask any nurse in a public system about the waste they see daily.) The right needs to realize that front-line health care is best administered by people who aren't hindered by a concern for profitability. (Ask any nurse in a privatized system about the corners they're told to cut.)Health care is different than any other business or government agency, and therefore needs to be treated differently too. The problem starts and is mainly located right at the top. The key is to put people into administrative positions who are practical, realistic, and understand both health care AND the business world. These are the only people truly qualified to run the system.

SoccerDad
said
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Folks, don't be fooled by this crap from the crooks at the IMF. And don't for one second think:
1) this is an American entity
2) they have our best interests at heart

The IMF is collection of international banking crooks who have now turned their eyes towards Canada. These folks have one interest and one interest only: global governance, global police force and a world currency. After having run amok and pillaged developing nations already, they are now picking off European countries one by one. The U.S. is imploding because of their kissing cousins The Federal Reserve. These buggers are nothing but foxes; foxes with long teeth and a big appetite to boot and they are at the hen house door. Stop taking all those pills Canada, the ones that make you sicker, not better.

There is a solution however and Canada can lead the way:

1) Have the Bank of Canada start issuing our own currency instead of borrowing from commercial banks.
2) Outlaw fractional reserve lending.
3) Begin an overhaul of our government starting at the top.

Wake up Canada, the clock is ticking...

P.S. Don't be surprised if there is some sort of "terror event" over the holidays but be surprised if it's real...

Rykhaard
said
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What's it all matter? As it all seems to stand now, in Canada - if you don't have any money, you die. Simple as that. :P It's one helluva lot different nowadays from how it were in the early 70's. Almost seems like the Government couldn't care less about the 'regular Joes' anymore. :P

mike
said
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if they cut healthcare, then there is really nothing the government provides me that is of use. Why then should I be taxed so high?all these years of bad governing are turning us from a 1st world country back to a 3rd world..

Prof. Pye Chartt
said
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@ lc: Outside criticism or advisement isn't a threat to Canada's "sovereignty," my friend. Economic weakness and instability holds that spot. Denying that our public universal healthcare system is sustainable without greater engineered efficiency and fiscal accountability will lead us in the wrong direction. Quit demonstrating that anti-American insecurity (I believe a WikiLeaks document made reference to "inferiority complex") that Canadians are unbecomingly known for. Put your pointy finger back in your pocket, and get hip to the governing reality. The IMF isn't enlightening us with "new" information, it's merely confirming that which informed Canadians should already be aware of. Thanks.

Stephen Verry
said
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It is disheartening to read some of these comments and amazing to imagine that the three letters i m f have become the mantra of our age. Civil societies worldwide are being gutted as they cave in to the dictates of global capitalism run amuck. This is the real threat we face as our growing financial crisis makes abundantly clear. By surrendering more and more to this false principle and its IMF mouthpiece, we paradoxically hasten the day the whole corrupt and unsustainable system comes crashing down on our heads.

George Ferguson
said
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The IMF is nothing more than a big American-backed bank. They misinform the public in order to provide American corporations and the US government fodder for marketing purposes. Sure there needs to be changes to our health system. The changes must be made in the bureaucracy of the management at both the provincial/federal government and local health board levels.

Sue
said
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@ Linda Nice rant I'm not say higher alcohol taxes will rid of of alcohols problems, I'm saying tax it enough that it pays for the problems it costs.

I'm Thick Doctor
said
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Why don't we charge people healthcare surcharges when they plug up the clinics and hospital waiting rooms? People show up at clinics because little Johnny has a runny freakin' nose! Why don't we tax the heck outa' foods with excessive sodium levels? When their sales drop, manufacturers will reduce the sodium content. Tax the heck out of products with excessive sugar levels and fat levels.

PV
said
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For anyone who understands just who the IMF is and it's members, you should find this rather comical. For those who don't know the IMF, please do some serious research. You'll be glad you did.

Ken in NB
said
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I could not agree more with the IMF, if you look at the budgets of the provinces, health care spending is the largest portion of the budget.
We have taken a basic principle of providing health care and expanded it to keeping everyone alive for as long as possible no matter what the cost. There needs to be some cost recovery from the expenses due to drunk drivers and couples delaying having kids until they are over 45.
We cannot continue to give everyone everything that they want.

eastcoastlaj
said
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There is enough money in our system.It's effectiveness is the problem.Also peoples attitude of entitlement.The # of people that abuse the system is deplorable.Don't show up for appts, abuse of ERs,request tests that are unnecessary etc. We can make our system work but our attitudes must change!

Kim
said
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We need a tan tax in Ontario that is collected when people tan in tanning salons. I am tired of my general tax dollars paying for people that get sick when they are partly to blame because of choices they make such as tanning and smoking. It was proven in 2008 by the WHO that tanning in tanning salons is a direct cause of skin cancer and people are still silly enough to do it. If they do decide to do it, they should be heavily taxed to support some of their skin cancer care.

Average guy
said
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The health care system is not "unsustainable": it is unsusatinable with the current tax levels. If we pay more, it is fully sustainable - it is a question of priorities and choice. We can pay more or we can cut loose those less advantaged to fend for themselves.

Sue Toronto
said
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Canadians have got to wake up and take a pill for their paranoia about a 'two tier system'. We already have the latter. If you have money and don't want to wait, you can go south. If you know someone in authority you can jump the queue. Properly managed,a health care system that is a public-private partnership can be very cost effective but most important, can provide excellent care to ALL. I am an RN who has worked in the system for almost 40 years. The IMF is right on... if we don't make major changes to the way we fund and deliver health care, we are going to drive our economy into the ditch and saddle future generations with unmanageable debt.

Jamie
said
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Well I guess we should start taking out high interest loams from the IMF to pay for this all.... worked for Ireland!

Jimmy
said
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As someone else pointed out in an earlier post, there are countries in Europe (e.g. England, France) whose health care system is far more subsidized by the government and yet they manage to make it work. And all those people who believe that privatizing health care will somehow solve this problem are grossly misinformed. Americans have to pay far more in medical expenses for far less services that they actually receive. And let's not fool ourselves that our taxes will drop after privatization either. We will still be paying high taxes on top of our insurance bills to cover our health care needs. So although our healthcare system is in critical state, I truly believe it's a far better model than that of the U.S. There are other solutions besides privatization like cutting unnecessary government spending as someone else pointed out.

Firinn
said
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And we are surprised by this !!! Wake up and smell the coffee folks . Canada is on a unsustainable path in more ways than ten. Never mind Health Care , wait for the bottom to drop on housing, jobs and resources such as water. Don't believe me , open your eyes , who's investing in this country the most and becoming more sustainable ?

pete
said
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marc toronto said 62 22 This is funny a US organization lecturing us on health care.Yet another report on cancer survival puts us at the top of the world again for healthcare.Yes it is expensive but what do you want for the best.I suggest this group recoends that the US tell their people why the wealthiest country in the world allows their citizens to die.-----------------And in Canada we die waiting in line...

pete
said
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Suggestion...start a health care tax, applied to items known to contribute to hc costs, like cigs and alcohol? ----------------------------------------------------Is this tax going to cover everything that could cause health costs then? What about driving, flying, walking, junk food, caffine, sitting, standing, screwing, sky diving, being old etc etc etc. BTW a pack of cigarettes costs $12.50, 90% of which is tax, alcohol is taxed similarily too. This additional tax you speak of should be a slap in the face to those who truly believe in a universal system. Why do you want to discriminate against smokers? I don't discriminate against fatties when they tie up the system....

michaelstack
said
0 0

Nothing's unsustainable. Make the rich pay more, their share of living & prospering in a country with little things like morals.Oops..this will make the antisocialists angry. Sorry!

George Piskor
said
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Yes Dorothy, there's no free lunch. The only question is who pays and how good is it?Currently "free lunch" costs $5, 500 annually per person (or $185 billion in total) representing 20% of combined federal/provincial tax revenue or about 1/3 of typical provincial tax revenue or 11.5% of GDP ($ 1,600 billion)So Dorothy, if you want more "lunch", we'll have to raise taxes, or you'll have to chip in yourself (it's called co-pay). Of course, we can give you smaller lunches, but you won't like that, will you? I'm sorry I mentioned it.What's that you say, Dorothy? You say your "free lunches" are too expensive and sometimes crappy. Yes dear, but that's pretty well the way it is with "free lunches", give or take a few sandwiches. Dorothy, dear, perhaps it would be better if you packed your own lunch? Here Dorothy, let me hold your rose-coloured glasses while you think about it.

Red X
said
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The IMF is headed by an American! The problem is that; lets say the Globe and Mail have been running columns to privatize some medical services because there is a business opportunity for the right to profit from sick people...

Andrew
said
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Last time I checked the IMF was not an elected canadian institution, so why are they now trying to influence govenmnet policy?

vern jackson
said
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well something simple.abolish armed forces every where.the savings who knows.also no more fighting vern

SMS
said
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So am I to believe that Sweden's and Holland's healthcare systems and all the other countries with universal healthcare are unsustainable as well? Or had Canada been singled out here because US health insurance companies would love to expand into Canada?

SunCoaster
said
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I wonder how much of this problem is driven by unhealthy life styles. Why does the government continue to permit unlimited consumption of bad food, tobacco and alcohol. I think we give lip service to a healthy life style, but the private lobbyist are just to persuasive. The other thing is that good health starts as children and as long as the governments continues to blame the victims of poverty for their situation we won't get out of this mess.

victoria trudeau
said
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Smokers die younger and don't caost the tax payers money for nursing homes, pensions, drug costs, the costs of doctors, nurses, and so on. In addition, Canada pulls in over 5 billion a year just on taxes for cigarettes.

Havelock Heavy
said
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It is a sad commentary that an International organization has to point out to Canadians what we should already know from our government. Meanwhile Mr. Harper fiddles while health care costs skyrocket. Another example of inept, do-nothing gov't sitting on its hands when they should be employing some futuristic strategies. This is another case of Mr. Harper's inaction today will cost us plenty in the future!!

sjawbrooke
said
0 0

If people knew what the services cost, I think that many would choose walk in clinics rather than emerg. The total costs of millions of people using the system when they don't need to are way higher than the total costs of end of life or orphan diseases cases. The problem is the average consumer that sits in "free" but useless seminars and goes to emerg rather than take OTC medicine for a stuffed sinus.

ZACCHAEUSNKJV
said
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Dear IMF,Considering that you are an organization made up of the richest families of the world, and that you already control the world's governments through the pre-G20 Bilderberger meetings, please feel free to institute a worldwide health care system that does work. While we're at it, in fact, since the world's economy supports your wealth, please feel free to fund the program you introduce...unless of course you are so greedy that you are unable to share your good fortune which you would not have made without the world's labourers.Sincerely, the proletariat.

George-Torontp
said
0 0

Escalating health care costs ? Really ?!? In a deflationary economic environment, one would have to wonder why health care costs are allowed, key word being, 'allowed', to escalate ? What ? Is it because those costs are tied to the cost of gold bullion or something ? Anyway, the IMF is good at calling the shots in places like Ireland, Greece, etc, but when it comes to their own backyard, America the 3D hologram of health.

GaryEvans
said
0 0

First of all we do not have free health care in Canada.Just look at that spot on your paystub titled taxes.Then look at your tax form where you fill in the 950$ health care tax amount (Ontario).Secondly,we need to streamline our healthcare.No going to the doctor for every little sniffle or ache and pain.Join a gym.Eat healthier,drive carefully.Use the health system for serious injuries or illnesses.Place a yearly quota on visits after which small fees are charged....make it more sensible ...Dont charge for serious operations or illnesses.keep it affordable .Not free..

John
said
0 0

I don't see any relevant facts to back up the IMF's claims here. I do see a lot of speculation about some secretive expenses...If there is a funding shortfall in the future our government will do as it always has and raise personal and commercial taxes to cover the cost.If we could only reveal the secrets about what motivates this report rather than revealing the secret health care costs I bet we'd all have our eyes opened. Makes for a good international argument though, we haven't had one of those with the US in a while, they must be getting antsy!

confused
said
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I wonder - what is the cost of not providing health care? The IMF and other such "think tanks" (what the heck is a think tank by the way - sounds like a good job) rarely talk about the cost of eliminating or reducing social programs. It's sort of like GM is the ultimate capitalist corporation, unless of course they need a government handout - then that's different. Wow.

Jay
said
0 0

perhaps extra taxes should be raised to help pay for healthcare.... An extra tax on fast "food" joints to help cover the obesity epidemic that they greatly contribute to... An extra tax for food processers using HFCS, which is instrumental in ballooning obesity... Banish tobacco totally, and we would save so much on dealing with this problem.... Make pharmaceutical ciompanies responsible for their products, most of which is harmful and toxic- a hefty licensing fee perhaps, or easier access to the courts to sue big pharma for fraudulent drugs... The proceeds of all fines imposed by the court could go to healthcare instead of to the queen. An extra convenience store tax to help cover the costs of fatties having heart problems and missed work.

SOMT
said
0 0

The real cost to the health care system is paperwork. We were in the hospital for the delivery of our new daughter and the redundant paperwork that the nurses were required to complete was horrendous. Focus the medically trained staff on treating people. not on filling out endless CYA forms.

lc
said
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The IMF new world order crew need to worry about their seized nations like Greece and Ireland.Were not there yet but with attitudes like the Pye Chart who deem all things American sacred our sovereignty is certainly far from secure.Way too much American Idol syndrome!

Melanie Terrace
said
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The "prof" is right.People who are stiing around blaming the Americans of the IMF for this bit of bad news,which most people have known for quite some time,are in severe denial.I expect tht they support politcal paties that refuse to tell us all exactly how much all those "free" social programs really cost. Well,this a is free speech country.If it make you feel better go head.Show your higher level of ignorance by remaining in denial or putting the blame on the USA.Just don't come crying the blues when this whole thing comes crashing down.You are,after all,a big part of the problem, and no part of the solution. Financial literacy lesson # 1: NOTHING IS FREE.Get used to that before you think you know how to finance health care.Get back to us when you graduate lesson # 1.Until then,you are a useless participant in the discussion.

tom , vancouver ,BC
said
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What I love abt Canadian healthcare is that the doctors and nurses have joined the profession for the # 1 reason to help people and not only to make money..Also the hundreds and thousands of volunteer hours put in by so many Canadians to help keep the system going.. Lets not forget these.. I am sure there are special interests who would love to see this system go more private and make a lot of money.. We only need to look at the US to see what that bring us.. Canadians are strong and sensible people and are not influenced by such reports..If there is more to be done we will do it together and not let individual people go bankrupt because of an illness in the family..

Canbuhay
said
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I'm appalled at the outright anti-American bigotry here. The IMF may not be your cup of tea but they are saying that there is evidence that our healthcare system in Canada is unsustainable. Disagree? Fine - show up with better facts then them but don't resort to name-calling just because you don't like their data.Nothing in the world is ever free - we or our poor children and grandchildren will either pay for our healthcare policy. And for those of you "compassionate" Canadians, is that fair? Is that Canadian?

ratatat
said
0 0

It's no surprise the IMF pooh-poohs a public healthcare system. The IMF is a politically driven organization bent on privatization of services and resources around the world. It is run by right-wing free-market ideologues like Paul Wolfowitz whose goal is to bankrupt third-world countries and place public services in all economies into the greedy hands of multinational corporations.

Steve T
said
0 0

The comments here are very interesting. Some people recognize that the report is simply reporting facts about our healthcare system - facts which any Canadian can see day-to-day. Others lash out at Americans (because the IMF is headquartered there???), and don't even bother addressing the concerns the report raises.Sadly, this is the same thing that happens whenever politicians try to raise this issue. Those with a vested interest in the status quo start squawking and fear-mongering, without really acknowledging any potential for improvement. And we have let these loud-mouths prevent meaningful debate for decades.

Pespesa
said
0 0

Some Europeans countries have far more superior subsidised health care system, wondering what will happen to them??? o.O

russy burgs
said
0 0

They are speaking from experience!... out wait.. no they aren't...MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Paul Vancouver
said
0 0

We are passionate about our healthcare! We do have to get our heads out of the sand however, the IMF is exactly right. Costs are only going higher and until we implement some type of user pay (which is desperately needed to convince people that it's not free) we will come to even higher taxes. There must be a middle ground that we need to find and so does the American system for that matter.

sdgreen
said
0 0

Like all things government, I do think there is a bunch of waste in the health system. I am certain that if government(s) at all levels only focussed on the essential things as opposed to the should and could haves things, we would have a bunch of money to put to health, education and pensions.The government(s) though are in denial.

J. Johnson
said
0 0

Suggestion...start a health care tax, applied to items known to contribute to hc costs, like cigs and alcohol?

Linda in Vancouver
said
0 0

LOL!!!! I don't know where "Sue" lives,but in BC we already have some of the highest prices for wwine,spirits and beer.The idea that even tripling the prices will save the health care is beyond absurd.That's exactly what the left wing wackos said about tobacco taxes.And we all see how well that worked out.Yes,we do have fewer people smoking.But as to whether that is because we now pay $10 for a package of cigaterttes worth about $1.75,or because more people just go smarter,the reasons remain quite uncertain.What is very clear,are tow things.The first being that health care costs continue to rise uncontrollably.And second,which the poverty and anti tobacco people don't want to discuss,is that those taxes on tobacco continue to create even more poverty.Since poor people make up a disproportionate number of those who continue to smoke,their children suffer more poverty and lower standars of living because their parents are either unwilling,or unable to quit.So,alll that those high tobacco taxes have done it take food off the tables of poor chldren,as one parent who smokes takes about $240 per month in taxes out of the familky bidget.Double that if both parents smoke.Higher taxes on alcohol will do even more dameage.And neither will lower health care costs because smokers will continue to smoke,and drinkers will drink Like governments who take money from one ministry to pay for health care.Smokers and drinkers will take money from food and rent budgets to pay whatever it costs to smoke or have a beer.Socialism and higher taxes cure nothing.They just hide the real costs. Besides.Studies in Australia and the USA are saying smokers are a net GAIN.The taxes they pay are far more than the services they receive. Your idea is not an answer,"Sue".It's just more social engineering.

Ontario Taxpayer
said
0 0

@Chicken....so are you suggesting that Medicare in Canada be put under Federal jurisdiction? Considering healthcare is a provincial responsibility, are you suggesting that Ontario is buying fighter jets? When did we setup a national guard system in Canada??? Basic funding 101....medicare is the responsibility of the provincial premiers....defence is the Feds. Provincial money funds our health system....not federal...provincial tax dollars, not federal....the provinces want the feds to stay out of their business but conveniently blame them when they feel it is warranted. Now go and study some more before you comment again!

Davis
said
0 0

The USA talks about "death panels" deciding who lives and dies in socialized health care. In Canada we laugh at this but I think here in Canada death panels are a dirty little secret. Some Canadians get fabulous care and beat diseases like cancer while others die. I think Doctors and medical boards make decisions that benefit some but not all Canadians it is just not exposed for the utter imbalance and lie we are being fed. Universal health care in Canada..is very selective and you're lucky if you live to get the treatment you seek because bureaucrats make decisions whether you live or die. Start asking questions because it needs to be exposed.

middle ground
said
0 0

Pretending the IMF is American just because it's based in Washington shows how little those posters really understand, and instead shows how poorly formed their opinions are. if we truly believe our health care system is great and important, we should be putting our ideologies aside and work to save it. All I'm hearing from the political left is to let it die a slow death so that it can't be saved, all in the name of ideology. Even further left leaning countries in Europe have moved away from the non-competitive health care system years ago because they recognized the laziness bred by having no need to succeed. Just like in evolution, those that can't (or won't) adapt - die.

Dr. Livingston I. Presume
said
0 0

1) The medical system is managed by MDs for MDs; sick people are a just commodity used to make money.2) The two-tier system is already in place: it's a 'soviet' type of system where who you know (a MD in our kins) gives you access and fast-track to tests, specialists, surgery, etc.3) Well-trained nurses, supported by pharmacists, could do 90% of the work done in medical clinics, at a much lesser cost.4) Physicians should be compelled to do at least 50% of their practise in hospitals emergencies and advanced testing and diagnosis units. That's where really sick people are and that's where the backlog is piling up.5) Longer life expectancy is a cash-cow myth entertained by pharmaceuticals and MDs. Quality of life is what people want, not years spent alone in homes under heavy medication.

Anne
said
0 0

The IMF is an organization that is intent on privatizing everything just like the Fraser Institute. Organizations with a bias against public institutions will never see the value of government.or looking after every citizen in society...actually more waste and corruption happens with private institutions...the only value is greed...that's why the incredible crazy health care costs in the US.

VancouverDave
said
0 0

We wouldn't have to spend quite so much if people stopped running to their doctor with every little cold or sniffle. Tough out the small stuff, and all we'll have to worry about then is bureaucratic spread.

Sarah
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Too many Canadians are unaware of the fact that Quebec takes over 60% of all federal equalization transfers so they can blow it on $7 a day garderies (day care) for kids and they subsidize childless Quebec parents-to-be over $30 thousand for free invitro treatments to make a genetic baby when they can clearly adopt. Canadians are paying for this and remember that the next time you sit in a waiting room and get substandard health treatment.

Jason
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Perhaps we should cut funding of Quebec's $7/per day daycare when people in other provinces pay well over $35 per day per child and out of their own pockets. And we don't get free invitro treatments either in other provinces. Quebec gets federal cash to pay for all this and Canadians are paying for it as they threaten us with extortion/separation and erode the English language and harass English Canadians. Why does Quebec get 60% of federal cash while we have a burdened health care cost that is unsustainable in Canada? Something really stinks with this and Quebec needs to own up to how it is a big part of the problem. Too many issues of entitlement in Quebec. Time to get realistic and realize they're no better than any other province and equal but no better.

Bob
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Maybe it is time to eliminate rediculous salaries(especially upper level management), ludicrous bonuses, even when goals arent met, in other words get salaries back to what the job is worth, not what these fat cats think they are worth. Their wages are rediculous let alone bonuses on top. Case in point, the head clown that was just removed from his position!!!

Jay
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I bet the IMF have some of their own 'remedies' for Canada's health plan- privatization? allowing Big Pharma complete control? IMF is a needless , evil agency that the world would be much better off without. Along with central banks , aka "Country Killers".

Anti Pye
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The piece of the puzzel that is missing is where are the majority of the cost increases from. The answer would be the same as in the United States. Pharmacutical companies have increased their profits exponentially. This is the same cause of american health care cost increases. The time is right for a pharma care benifit that Canada will purchase in bulk through a contracting process and obtain the very best price for perscriptions. This alone will drive down the cost of our health care system and make it sustainable for a generation!

Rich
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Here is a novel idea, how about if the public decided to take care of their own health instead of looking for the little "white pill" that solves all problems caused by the current sedentary lifestyle. Could it be sitting in front of a TV or �chatting online� in front your computer is not a healthy way to live your life? The public needs to try getting off of their butts and do some exercise. Why not show some compassion and reserve health care for those who have been dealt a bad hand through no fault of their own rather than those who have self inflicted health issue.

Bill
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Dismiss, deny, delude... how predictable that so many commenters simply bash the messengers rather than say anything substantive regarding the message. While I love the health system we have, I am very worried about its long-term sustainability. We need to find ways to reduce costs while improving the timeliness and quality of care. Ignoring problems -- the ones we know we have, and the ones that we know are coming -- well, that's not the kind of Canada that I want to live in. Acknowledge the problems now and get to work... don't bash a warning just because you don't like the messenger.

JustSomeGuy
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The current Canadian Health Care regime is predicated on a demographic model that cannot sustain its present and future costs. The Baby Boomer generation (post WW2), which was the single largest historical population cohort, is aging and, thanks to medical advances, living longer. But, this cohort is also retiring and not generating the tax dollars it once did. Successor generations, X, Y etc.. are simply not a big enough population and wealthy enough to sustain the costs of providing sufficient tax revenue to sustain the present model of healthcare. Of course, this is a complex issue, but I believe this is the heart of the issue.

NBCon
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John,The cost of hiring professionals in the Canadian system is much cheaper than the American one. Pay our doctors and nurses any less and we will be saying bye to them as they head for the states. My mom is a nurse and she was almost one of them, and thats with the current rates. Nurses make less than lawyers, RCMP officers, tradesmen, etc, yes they are considered the backbone of the health care system. So cutting their wages is not the solution. We need a system that allows for the private funded option whereby those who purchase private health care get a tax credit for it. This is the only solution.

Helga Laval
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Why are Canadians paying for Quebec to provide 'FREE' in-vitro fertilization treatments to the tune of more than $30,000.00 and over per Quebec couple up to 3 attempts??? Tax money from all of Canada and Canadians is filtered to Quebec in the form of federal equalization transfer payments. Quebec gets a mega 60% of the total money pie, leaving only 40% for 9 provinces and 3 territories to use. This is an "unnecessary health care subsidy when Quebec couples should either adopt or pay for their own in vitro fertilization. It's not the responsibility of Canadians to provide them with a genetic Quebec baby. This is irresponsible in the face of fiscal crisis in Canada and and over taxed health system. Look at your paychecks because a lot of that federal tax you pay is going directly to "Quebec" to fund their socialist utopia on steroids and living the life of French Disney Land. Time to take off the rose colored glasses and pay attention.

gfinale
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From Sue "The government needs to triple the tax on alcohol. The costs of alcohol on society are enormous, current alcohol tax only pays for about one third of the damage that alcohol costs."
---
Sue, do you smoke? Do you rock/mountain climb? Ski? Do you jaywalk? Do you use a cell phone frequently? Do you drive while on a cell phone or text? All of these people voluntarily put more of a burden on health costs and are not paying their fair share. What makes you holier than thou people believe you should bully alcohol drinkers? I think it's because you don't happen to drink and you think you should be able to dictate what everyone else does. I'm tired of holier than thou people like yourself, Sue.

jumpingjimmy
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Maybe Canada should stop putting money into IMF bailout strategies for the rest of the world then. What's the hidden cost in bailing out big business, big banks, and corrupt governments ? Can't wait to read a new story on that IMF report.

Bill
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Try to remember the term is public servant not public fat cat. The entire public service is so overpaid it's laughable. That's where our money goes.

MikeInBC
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Here in BC there are many ways that Health Care costs could be reduced while at the same time health care could be improved. I have so many issues with the health care system here that I could not list them all in this response.From politicians to bureaucrats to doctors/health care workers to unions I see much wasted money. Unfortunately I don't see any changes coming unless we elect a government that will look after the people instead of their own interests or the interests of their friends or the unions that support them.Not all of these people are a detriment to the system but many that I've dealt with are.I'm afraid that the system is going to collapse and the people at the lower end of the income scale are the ones that will suffer the most unless huge changes are made.

Trappy
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The same thing happened in the 90's when we closed hospitals and slashed healthcare to unsustainable levels of minimal staffing and performing. The IMF hates socialist healthcare and would kill it off for a chance at private for profit. Canada only spends 5-7% of our GDP on healthcare. The only time it ever hits 7% is when the cronny Flaherety gives corporations massive tax breaks. Lord knows I have yet to prosper from one of his tax cuts. The only thing rising above the rate of inflation in healthcare is private pharmaceuticals and dentistry reltaed costs. We see double digit increases in the costs of non socialist medical programs year after year. Wake up Canada and say no to unfair corporate tax cuts at the expense of our healthcare. Healthcare related costs for those within the first few years of life amount to more then all the geriatric years of life combined. This is senseless propoganda that has no buisness being stated because it does nothing more then manipulate the truth. The truth that the private portions of medicare are the only things killing off our public healthcare!

Rob Calgary
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The majority of money being wasted is at the top with bonuses, high wages and pensions . When was the last time the average worker in Canada got a fat bonus or retirment package after five years of employment. These guys are milking the system for what they can, mean while we sit in line ups at the hospital. Great management!

hemusbull
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I am assuming IMF here is identified as american institution following american interests, particularly GOPs. This isn't the whole truth. Anyway, just several years ago we, ontarians were overloaded with (in my case) about six hundred dollars per year extra tax for boosting the healthcare. The result is negligible - the waiting times are the same and the healthcare services are just as before. In my personal opinion, Canada is really up front to pay more and more for healthcare.

John
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Some of what they say is true. If we want to keep our medicare, we must stop paying high wages and pensions to EVERYONE in the health care systems. It seems every 2 or 3 years we have a strike or services withheld to hold us hostage! Essential services should not be allowed to withhold services

Prof. Pye Chartt
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Canadians love to lounge around the Denial Hotel, and brag about the superior virtues of their crumbling public universal healthcare system. The thought of those damn Americans forging a better system actually threatens us, but, of course, we won't admit it. Though Canada's world healthcare ranking has always been rather sad, the U.S. and its overhyped struggles have always made us feel warm and fuzzy. (Yep; thankfully, we seem to know how to address cancer, on most levels.) As evidenced by many of the comments in this forum, we don't like other people administering a needed dose of reality. (We like to be the politically righteous finger pointers.) "Mind your own business!"

Peter
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Who listens to a country that indicates Obama's Health Care Plan is unconstitutional, while that same constitution regards arming oneself as very constitutional. A country that makes no sense is not to be listened to. The world economic situation was caused by priorities like this.

Jon in London ON
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From wiki - The IMF is a United Nations organization formed with a stated objective of stabilizing international exchange rates and facilitating development through the enforcement of LIBERALISING (from rich to poor) economic policies. They are simply being practical and realize that all this health care money would be better spent fighting........oh I don't know......Global Warming perhaps?

Sue
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The government needs to triple the tax on alcohol. The costs of alcohol on society are enormous, current alcohol tax only pays for about one third of the damage that alcohol costs.

fred
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A lot of waste and corruption.Apparently even the new superhosiptal in Montreal is being built by greedy 'entreprenuers' and consultants thru companies set up by the the public administrators to pocket as much public money as they can... for their own personal gain.. Let alone doctors accepting under the table payoffs to provided preferred service....and the profiteering by drug companies and supply companies ... What a sick situation...

Joey
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Solution: Fire all these health officials, my 2 year old son could run the health system better than all these commitees and boards, my son wouldn't ask for a 6 figure salary, just some new toys.

Marcel NWO
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Washington is now going to tell Canada how we are to use our health system when the USA under Obama has a rich man - poor man heath system. Now Obama is forcing every American to have a health system or face the consequences. This may be good advise but it sounds political at its timing.

Larry I Ontario
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Prepare yourslves for the conservative secret agenda to dismantle public heath care and Canada pennsion plan. We must not allow any governement in power to ever take this away from us. Maybe if these fat cats in Ottawa would stop the watseful spending and scandals the funding would be ok. These rich fat cats in Ottawa do not represent the vast majority of Candaians would stuggle to get by day to day. We must never allow Harper a majority or all these programs will slip away costing th average middl class and poor financial disaster

An inside view
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As somebody who works in healthcare, and sees the rampant waste that is created by the MBA types that populate the IMF, I have to call BS. Many of the high costs can be tracked back to poorly run capital projects, and a senior leadership that doesn't understand the business. The bottom line is that healthcare IS sustainable by applying the kind of simple common sense that is lacking in most professional managers.I'm saying this from inside the system, so I know what I'm talking about.

Corruption
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Health care in itself is not the problem. The reason we have a problem in cost is mainly due to corruption and mismanagement! Eliminate these 2 factors and you will have lots of money left over to pay down the debt.

Jon In London ON
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Good thing the United States would never legislate something like a National Healthcare Program.......what?

RJ in Halifax
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Mayb e it's time for all levels of government to cut back on the very gererous salary/benefits packages paid to the public service sector unions (and themselves) and plough the savings back into health care for all citizens

chickenbus
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It's a matter of priorities. Our government would rather spend tons of money on G20 summits, planes for defence and the Olympics (the overspending of Federal money always leads to less money going to provinces). Anywhere the IMF is involved means less government support and more privatization so I am very suspicious of their recommendations.

Brian
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Well then, no aid for developing countries from Canada. Those monies should be redirected to Canadian health care first.

Zorglubsky
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marc toronto
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This is funny a US organization lecturing us on health care.Yet another report on cancer survival puts us at the top of the world again for healthcare.Yes it is expensive but what do you want for the best.I suggest this group recoends that the US tell their people why the wealthiest country in the world allows their citizens to die.