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Darwin Lacelle from Petawawa, Ontario, who  served 25 years in the military included a tour to Syria, stands on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Saturday, November 6, 2010. (Pawel Dwulit / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Patty Jeffrey, whose father served in the Second World War, holds a sign thanking veterans during a demonstration on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Saturday, November 6, 2010. (Pawel Dwulit / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Veterans advocate Sean Bruyea speaks to CTV News Channel on Saturday, November 6, 2010. Second World War Veteran Merchant Navy Captain John C. Smith Stands beside a wreath placed during a ceremony to kick of Veterans Week 2010 in the Senate Chamber on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Friday, Nov. 5, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS) A girl scout salutes along with Canadian war veterans as they take part in a candlelight tribute honouring Canada's veterans in Ottawa on Monday, Nov. 1, 2010. Thousands of veterans are planning protests Saturday morning outside their local MPs' constituency offices to demand changes to the way veterans, widows and injured soldiers are compensated. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Veterans ombudsman Patrick Stogran appears before the Commons veterans affair committee in Ottawa, Tuesday, Oct.26, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Retired Col. Pat Stogran, the federal veterans' ombudsman, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2010.

Canadians must stand up for veterans, advocate says

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CTV News Video

CTV National News: Todd Battis on the rally
Veterans across Canada took to the streets Saturday to voice their anger with how the federal government is treating them in regards to pensions, benefits, and disability pay.
CTV British Columbia: St. John Alexander
Thousands of veterans rallied across the country on Saturday to protest how the government treats the troops after they've returned from fighting for Canada.
CTV Winnipeg: Caroline Barghout reports
Thousands of veterans gathered outside their local MPs' constituency offices and at other sites around the country on Saturday morning for the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest, but not in Winnipeg. Veterans there felt there would a governmental backlash.
CTV News Channel: Michael Blais, organizer
The organizer of the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest says that since all of Canada's veterans have the same patriotic commitment to Canada, they should all be treated with the same level of dignity and compassion.
CTV Toronto: Toronto hosts small veterans rally
Sneha Kulkarni reports on an intimate Toronto rally that joined the national protest against changing the veteran's pension plan.
CTV Ottawa: Karen Soloman on the veterans
Thousands of veterans gathered outside their local MPs' constituency offices and at other sites on Saturday morning for the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest.
CTV Montreal: Andrew King reports
Veterans in the Montreal area and across the country protested Saturday to demand changes to the way they are compensated.
CTV News Channel: Sean Bruyea, veteran
A retired Air Force captain discusses the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest. He says soldiers are loyal to their country, but a sense of frustration among veterans and widows involving a lack of compensation has reached a boiling point.

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Darwin Lacelle from Petawawa, Ontario, who  served 25 years in the military included a tour to Syria, stands on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Saturday, November 6, 2010. (Pawel Dwulit / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Patty Jeffrey, whose father served in the Second World War, holds a sign thanking veterans during a demonstration on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Saturday, November 6, 2010. (Pawel Dwulit / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Veterans advocate Sean Bruyea speaks to CTV News Channel on Saturday, November 6, 2010. Second World War Veteran Merchant Navy Captain John C. Smith Stands beside a wreath placed during a ceremony to kick of Veterans Week 2010 in the Senate Chamber on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Friday, Nov. 5, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS) A girl scout salutes along with Canadian war veterans as they take part in a candlelight tribute honouring Canada's veterans in Ottawa on Monday, Nov. 1, 2010. Thousands of veterans are planning protests Saturday morning outside their local MPs' constituency offices to demand changes to the way veterans, widows and injured soldiers are compensated. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Veterans ombudsman Patrick Stogran appears before the Commons veterans affair committee in Ottawa, Tuesday, Oct.26, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Retired Col. Pat Stogran, the federal veterans' ombudsman, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2010.

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Darwin Lacelle from Petawawa, Ontario, who  served 25 years in the military included a tour to Syria, stands on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Saturday, November 6, 2010. (Pawel Dwulit / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Date: Sat. Nov. 6 2010 10:10 PM ET

Canadians must "defend the rights" of disabled soldiers, says a former military intelligence officer on a day when veterans across the country were protesting to demand changes to the way that they are compensated.

Thousands of veterans gathered outside their local MPs' constituency offices and at other sites on Saturday morning for the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest. They were calling on the federal government to scrap the new veterans charter, which they say short-changes them by replacing life-time pensions with a combination of lump-sum payments and income support.

Sean Bruyea, an outspoken advocate for veterans, said Canadians must defend the rights of veterans, many of whom are disabled and cannot advocate for themselves.

"We're asking for the disabled veterans, the ones least able to defend themselves, to actually advocate," Bruyea told CTV News Channel on Saturday afternoon. "We really need Canadians to step up to the plate and defend the rights of veterans now that the soldiers out of uniform can't defend Canadians anymore."

In Halifax, about 50 people gathered at the war memorial in the Grand Parade, where veterans laid wreaths at the cenotaph and speakers called for improved benefits for veterans.

Signs throughout the crowd told the story of the veterans' anger. "Billions for Jets, Pennies for Vets. Shame!" read one poster. "Dump the lump sum. Give us back the pension," read another.

In Ottawa, Bruyea joined retired colonel and former veterans ombudsman Pat Stogran at a quiet, peaceful protest of about 150 on Parliament Hill.

Bruyea said demanding lifetime payments over a lump sum "isn't about getting rich" because military pensions are modest.

"But even these modest payments are substantially, when taken over the lifetime of a veteran, substantially larger than the lump sum," he said. "On top of that is that when that veteran passed away, there was always a survivor's pension for whether there were orphans left behind and definitely for spouses. That doesn't exist under the lump sum."

A handful of veterans who gathered in Toronto were joined by NDP Leader Jack Layton and Kirsty Duncan, the Liberal veterans affairs critic, both of whom called for changes to the system.

"There are people who are waiting two years to get a decision on pension. How do they live in that time?" Duncan asked. "There needs to be changes to the lump sum payments; 31 per cent of veterans say the lump sum payment is not working for them."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has been under fire for months over its handling of veterans' issues, including the lump-sum payment.

Stogran led the campaign to improve benefits for veterans. It was discovered that bureaucrats used his and Bruyea's confidential medical records to try to discredit them.

The government opted to not renew Stogran's contract, and on Friday announced that retired chief warrant Guy Parent will be the new veterans ombudsman. Parent's term begins on Remembrance Day.

The new charter was introduced by Paul Martin's Liberal government in the spring of 2005 as a cost-saving move. Back then, it passed with all-party support, but the changes did not come into effect until the following April when it was enacted by the Conservative government.

An independent study commissioned by the ombudsman's office found that severely disabled soldiers in the lower ranks are most affected under the new system. The total amount of a lump-sum payment -- $276,000 -- won't make up for the loss of a life-time pension, the study found.

Stung by criticism from Stogran and other Canadian Forces veterans, the government announced in September a new five-year plan to help veterans that included an additional $200 million over the next five years for veterans unable to work because of their injuries.

Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn issued a statement in response to the protests, saying that the government had brought in changes that are "targeting our most severely injured and vulnerable veterans and their families."

Blackburn said the most severely injured veterans will receive up to $58,000 each year, and added that the government has recently allowed veterans suffering from ALS to be eligible for benefits.

Many wounded veterans have complained their benefits are being held up by bureaucrats in Veterans Affairs and worry that any extra cash will get lost in the department's red tape.

"Putting money in the top end of this does not necessarily mean that it's going to filter out to actually help troops on the bottom," Stogran warned at the time.

Gary Zwicker, organizer of the Halifax protest and a navy veteran, said the benefits system needs to be overhauled to be less adversarial to veterans.

"It's a broken system that is falling apart in many different areas," Zwicker said. "It's run by bureaucrats that don't care and the adjudicators for pension disputes have no experience with veterans."

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

TERESA (retired)
said

I am a vet and I am sad to see the way vets are treated. The military promises the day you leave dva will take care of you. You have to fight for years to get benefits. When the new charter came out I lost out on priority hiring because I was released before 1 December 2005. I was caught in the middle of the old and new. My only saving grace is I am under the old charter and it had its faults. I spent over 40,000.00 of my own money refitting my home so I could have some independence. If I was under the new charter I would be bankrupt with the amount of care and medical assistance I require not including drugs etc. I would have probably taken my own life to spare my family the a life style of more than just poverty. My husband is military and if he was hurt we might as well be dead because I could not work to be afford he medical care. There is on government that is willing to take on the expensive of its disposable assessts and that is soilders. We in war are a percentage of calulated casualities and deaths. We are numbers not people. Freedom comes at a price and we are it. Please start taken the steps to help us help ourselves by bringing back a full pension they all deserve it. I know a lot of vets want sercurity and independace so they can devote their time to healing and being with their families who need them as much as our country needed us.


Sarge Lafontaine
said

Maybe those thinking of signing up as recruits should give a little more thought to the benefits and compensation package of *their* chosen profession, eh?


Dwayne
said

Hey Chris They are talking about veterans affairs pension not superannuation! Under the old act which I am under (when you are injured in the line of duty) you got monthly payments tax free for life! Soon as the Conservatives took over that is when it changed to a one time payment. I don't believe that police/ firefighters can even get verterans affairs STOP PRINTING IN UPPERCASE. You should really listen to Sapper D the boy has a point..CHEEMO!


Dave McKnight, Chilliwack BC
said

As a retired MWO all I can say is... don't be pinheads there's a hole in the boat ... Fix It! Canada's patriots deserve it.


Tom the Bosnia guy
said

The veterans have a programe called the VIP program, so you can get monthly, x amount of dollars for certain services based on your perceived medical problems. For example, I am 97 percent unable to take care of myself based on what happened to me overseas in Rwanda and also Bosnia. I get 63.00 dollars a month to feed myself. (does anyone want to see a picture of me?) I most likely will die of starvation, over what I did overseas. What can I say folks. Just give me a thanks this November 11th I guess. I will try to draw calories from that.


BCMc
said

Any changes to the way veterans are compensated, or supported, should not impact people belonging to the forces prior to this change. Then those joining the forces can determine whether they should join or not.


Pete M
said

George V shame on you man. Please don't try to equate carpal tunnel with amputated limbs, and by that I mean arms and legs being blown off by bombs. In the middle of nowhere sometimes. These Canadians put their lives and futures on the line so that whiners like you don't have to. They die for your freedom and free lifestyle . Go to Afghanistan. See what they see. Walk in their shoes. Only then can you possibly understand. And, yes I did serve in the military. for 7 yrs. SHAME SHAME. ...Pete M.


Arby
said

Confiscate a goodly portion of every MP and Senator's pension (in office past & present) and give it to the Vets.
The reason politicians have the freedom to bicker and argue back and forth and voice opinions is because of Veterans who fought the armies of dictators.
All MP's need to agree on this.
Pay up and shut up.


BK in Cornwall
said

I've read some pretty stupid comments on this site but the one by Smitcha really takes the prize. Canada was never in danger of invasion he says. Well Smitcha, I suggest you go and review the history of World War 2. If Canadians and other Allies had not come to the aid of Britain, Hitler would have been landing troops in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia in no time at all. It's people like you who continue to bury their head in the sand that will be the downfall of our western democracies. Please save your dribble for your left wingnut meetings..


CalgarySandy
said

My Mom has never paid for a prescription drug, eye glasses, or teeth due to her 4 years as a clerical worker in the Navy. No CPP as she never worked much again. She cleaned up and I would really like to know why.

I have studied Canada at war in University and we have great reasons to be proud. The young men had no idea what they were getting into and they came out genuine heroes. They were fighting with the UK and it was the first time Canada fought as an individual nation rather than being part of the British military. It was and remains a major step in our independence as a nation.


CalgarySandy
said

I don't doubt that many veterans are not taken care of. My mom is a vet. She served in an office in Scotland doing clerical work during WWII for years. She has been living better than I do for many years. She could afford a two bedroom condo with 1.5 baths for years. She had a nice car and lots of spending money. My Dad served in the Netherlands and never did anything like as well as my Mom but he was able to have a good if simple life until he died in his 80's.

My mom, who basically lived off my dad for the rest of her life until they separated is now living in a high end seniors residence where housekeeping and meals are provided. I do not understand why my father who saw combat and spent his life in the armed forces was not as well treated as my mom. I do not understand why there are Vets begging in the streets. Is this because my cousin-in-law, who was an officer in the Navy, pulled strings for her?

It is unfair that some vets are doing fine and others are not. Peacetime or wartime they should be treated equally and the disabled should be given what they need to live decently too.


SM in Montreal
said

FACT. This piece of legislation was passed during the Martin Government in May of 2005 with ALL Parties voting for it.The Harper Government implemented this Act in April, 2006. FACT.


paul from Halifax
said

George V. There is a huge difference between eating hamburgers till you get fat and stepping on a land mine blowing off body parts. We do not get fat pensions in fact we are told when and where go going to live every 4 or 5 years. We pay unemployment benefits which we can never get. Our families suffer every time we move or asked to be sent on a tour somewhere in a third world country, risking our life day in and out, to make this world a better place for people here at home and abroad. You have no idea what its like being injured in the battle field. Its not oh I cut my finger, rather it is a nightmare mixed with pain and agony as you watch your legs blown off, that is if you lucky enough to survive at all. You have no clue at all


Jim-Surrey
said

Not just Canadians, the gov't too.The Vets that fought in the first and second world wars need more respect and help than they are getting now. If it wasn't for them WE wouldn't be here. Those that died got left over there not like what is going on now with bring the bodies back home.The DVA is almost impossible to reach with the system that is in place. There should be an outlet for Western provinces instead of the damn East for ALL of Canada. My father has a hell of a time getting a hold of them when he has questions and they are very slow in responding!FIX IT it is broken!


Pissed off Reservist.
said

The comments about the snivelling servants not caring about veterans is right on. I was forced to retire in June ( complusory retirement age) and am now told it could be up to two years before I receive my first pension cheque!! When I talk to people at pension services and ask how I am supposed to pay my bills until then the response is " that is not our problem". My file simply is not a priority. I was sure as hell a priority when I was needed in Afghanistan.


Michael
said

@ smitecha, if you don’t think the vets and active members put their lives on the line for you and the rest of Canadians I will point out a couple of things to you. First no they did not fight for Bush in Afghanistan, they fought and are fighting so we don’t have to fight the Taliban here in Canada. As for fighting during WWII in Europe, again all I will say about that is if our troops did not fight over there then you would be speaking German today. Lastly they fought so people like you have the freedom to sat stupid things like They fought to support Europe against Hitler. They fought for George Bush in Afghanistan. When was Canada ever in danger of invasion?


Chris
said

Well once again our friend "REECE" proves how hateful and UNPATRIOTIC he is to our beloved country. Hey... you... WAKE UP!!!As I said in my previous post, 6 figures sounds like a lot of money, BUT IT HAS TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING!!! After the lump-sum, you are left on your own to cover costs. Therefore, after your house renovations that cost anywhere from 50-100 thousand, you then have to maintain those renovations. And you haven't even come across your medical expenses yet such as prosthetic upgrading and maintenance fees, psychiatric or OSI recovery fees, other expenses such as food, and clothing. Wow, and one probably still has at least 50 years of life left in him... yeah 250 grand will cover that.... YOU BONEHEAD!!!


Redneck Vic
said

As a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces I am disgusted at how these vets are showing respect for the only party (Conservative Party of Canada) that has done so much for them in the past 5 years. And they are still trying to make sure you get new equipment, safer equipment. Have you all forgotten it was the Liberals that brought in the charter in the first place? It was the Liberals that tried to destroy our ranks in the past years? It was the Liberals that sent you to Afghanistan with out the proper gear? It was the Liberals that cancelled helicopter contracts! It will be the Liberals that will cancel the F35 contract as well! Grow up and assign the blame to whom it should belong "THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA".


robin hood
said

Time to end this story...Quote-- millions for defence but not one cent for tribute-- Charles C. Pinckney 1796 Help me out here what year are we in?


Vets' Father in SK
said

It's not just about disabled vets, it's about all vets, who receive NOTHING when they leave the military other than the pension they paid into...at the very least, their change of career education should be paid for by the government...especially for infantry soldiers...


Gord
said

It often puzzles me why a young person would sign up for military duty and put himself in harm's way in some far away land and for a cause that's confusing to say the least. W In the past it was for a cause. We had been attacked by two fearsome enemies. Our freedom was a stake. Today enlisting is probably to get out of some dead end part of the country and learn a trade. Its not for the money.

Insofar as our freedoms are concerned, this coming week, be sure to give thanks to our armed services veterans who put themselves in harm's way and served our country.

One of my Uncles, now deceased came home from WW1 shellshocked before anyone had ever heard of post combat trauma. He participated in our assault and victory on Vimy Ridge. Senior officers were all British and dismissed Canadians under their command and expendable and just colonial riff raff. His promising career ended and he spent his entire life misunderstood by our family and in the Veterans ward at Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto.

I belief veteran's pensions and health care should remain intact.


Gord. Robson, Nova Scoria
said

The Liberals passed this legislation in 2005, The conservatives got stuck with it and are making some changes to help veterans. Lets see the Liberals reverse and change their minds (something Ignatieff is reportedly good at). The Conservatives are working on it as reported in the media recently. Give the Conservatives a majority so that they can do the job!


icanthinkformyself
said

Take the money that senator's are given for life and give it to the vet's.


W
said

We are still coming to grips with the previous liberal governments mismanagement of the defense portfolio.Our vets deserve to be taken care of after volunteering to serve and enduring dangerous conditions for prolonged periods of time. What should also be included in the decision making process about how to compensate our vets is the significant amount of time they spend away and the impact that it has on families.This government has treated the CF very well in contrast to the previous government (I have been in since the late 90's). I hope that they continue to take care of us and retroactivley change the veterans charter to reflect what it once was in order to care for our wounded since 2006.


reece
said

In ANY job, you can be injured and disabled from work related injuries and you aint gonna be happy with the outcome...disability benifits for the civilian population is laughable. The Armed Forces personnel receive $276,000 - enough to more than cover the cost of a condo. You have a roof over your head. You are not living in a cardboard box like George Bush´s military men. The thing about conservative govts is this...they like the photo ops with military personnel, they love buying military hardware...its the cool thing to do and it makes you look sooooooo friggin patriotic even while you dont have a patriot bone in your body. Its everything about money and im sorry to say but a disabled military vet does not make a good photo op and just throwing money into his bank account is unprofitable. Thats the way it is, folks. Sure they will blame the Liberals but what else could they say? The truth?


3rd Gen Member
said

What about the living spouses of veterans who passed away because of Agent Orange? Many of them are getting the shaft because their military spouses didn't have the good luck to die "on or before" a certain date! What a scam!!


Ret Soldier's wife
said

@George V
You know nothing about what you're talking about. The pensions CF members receive are hardly "fat". You've mixed that up with a politician's pension. BTW I dare you to get off your behind and enlist. Maybe you'll get a reality check.


paul from Halifax
said

Lets stop the finger pointing's and just fix what is wrong. As an injured soldier returning from Afghanistan, I know what it is like. I suffered 3 separate injuries and have filed for pension according to the current system in place approx 8 months ago. I have yet to be paid and in fact have been told to wait another year to see how my injuries improve/stabilize. They are extremely unhelpful and will do anything to try and dismiss claims or pay as little as possible. My and my family's life have been turned upside down because of my injuries and have received nothing but problems and the runarounds by the Pensions bureau. I think their slogan should be "we will never leave anyone behind but will short change him as much as possible" As veterans we are not asking for a bank loan we are asking for a normal life or what is left of it. Insult to injury.


PM vist to Veteran soup kitchens
said

Thanks CTV, for letting this be heard by the Canadian public. Veteran Affairs has been stealing from our Veterans, and at the same time smiling on TV cameras, telling the general public how much they are helping veterans. There is no need for Veteran to be going to soup kitchens...THAT IS WRONG! PM Harper even visted a Veteran's soup kitchen last year... do not give them free soup, give them the pensions they deserve.


Fair? I think not.
said

Imagine you were thinking of doing a dangerous job, so went and ensured you were covered with insurance. So you left your family, and went to do the dangerous job. While away, you get injured, for life. Also while away, the insurance company, decides to change your policy, only giving you a third of the coverage you were promised, before going away? Fair?


Margaret
said

All vets need to be compensated for the rest of their lives. It amazes me how governments will give themselves big raises (some that dont deserve it) without a second thought, yet the Vets have to jump through hoops and fill out forms after forms to get what they truly deserve. Such a disgrace, and this is not just the fault of the Conservatives its the fault of all government before them, for ignoring a group of people who made this country what it is today. Stand up all vets and let the beaurocrats hear you. You deserve all that is coming to you. God Bless you.


NS
said

Only slime would strip away 2/3s of a combat veteran's pension. Return to the 2005 system..it was never broken, it was a good system.


carrie macneill
said

I was rejected from my hearing two weeks ago. I have 10 claims up. The first one, my mental disability, got rejected the second time so is going to PEI. I was told, by my lawyer, that everything was credible and recognized,,BUT " they are NOT responsible for my personal safety and protection?" This happened on course when I was in,,on the BASE!! I sgned to protect this country and Canadians...why am I being told I am NOT protected or given the same guarantee?? You must be kidding VAC...you are just avoiding payments is ALL.


stevo
said

By giving lump sum payments the veterans are being treated like a one time business write-off. Any person who believes that the veterans are being treated fairly with this new system is the same person who would never serve their country themselves. And, if you think that the government is spending too much on veterans benefits just be glad it's only your tax dollars that you're losing.


smitecha
said

I fully support the vets but...I wish people would quit saying they put their lives on the line for us and our country. When did they ever do that? They fought to support Europe against Hitler. They fought for George Bush in Afghanistan. When was Canada ever in danger of invasion?


Mike
said

Maybe what would get through to the people in Ottawa is for every memeber of the military to put in for their release from the military at the same time. Just maybe the powers to be would then sit up and take notice that the system is broken and must be fixed NOW.

Linda in Vancouver
said

This debate is becoming to politcal.Perhaps the best way to get to a solution is to take it out of the hands of the politicians,and give actuaries and insurance people a chance to wade into the discussion.Then they can recommend solutions that are both fair,and affordable.Remember,our military is currently quite small.Whatever paln we do come up with would also have to condider the unthinkable.A perriod of time similar to the time of WWII,when 10% of our entire population served in the military in one way or another.If that happened again,we might well find that we have defended the nation during a war,only to lose it to an economic morrass later on. The complaints I hear from some vets sound reasonable.But perhaps there is no one size fits all.For some,a lump sum payout may actually serve them well,while lifetime pensions would be a better option for others.Also,I am unsure of what "BC in BC" thinks is fair.He/she says his pension is $1200 after 23 years of servce.While not in the miltary,my late husband worked 45 years to earn a pension of $1500.If a man or woman joined the military at age 21,and served 23 years,he or she would still only be 45. So I ask "BC in BC" if he is saying he should receive full time pay for the rest of his life,rather than going on to other work?? Harper offered the children of fallen soldiers free university educations,and some left wing nit wits went off the rails about that.I think one group of professors even lobbied publicly against that seemingly decent suggestion. Let's get this right the next time it goes up for a vote.But "right" may be a subjective kind of an assessment.One size will almost certainly not fit all.


Elizabeth, Ontario
said

Something wrong with the picture when MP's serve only 8 yrs and receive full pension and benefits with no questions asked. On the other hand Canadian soldiers serve in active duty and then they, or their families, have to fight the bureaucracy in Veteran's Affairs in order to receive their well deserved benefits. Bring back the monthly pension for each and every Veteran. Soldiers who come home injured should receive payment, in addition to their monthly pension, to assist with rehab. in addition to their monthly pension. Federal government workers, in Veteran's Affairs, have no business forcing our Veterans to fight them for benefits. Perhaps a pre-requisite to working in Veteran's Affairs, would be active duty on front lines in Afghanistan to change their attitude - might give them a better understanding of exactly who they are dealing with. Canadians, please stand up and support the troops and Veterans!


Not so Proud Canadian
said

I am also a veteran of the RAF and am fortunate that I have good health. I have also had a long involvement with the Legion and its advocacy for Veterans. It strikes me that having worked at a relatively senior management position for a Canadian Government Agency that things have not changed. I resigned in the Chretien era in disgust after less than two years as I reviewed finances to find that less than 30% of my large budget actually went to the "clients" in the system. You guessed it, the remainder went to employees of the department.
This is so very apparent in the case of VAC which vacillates, obfuscates, minimises, refutes, denies, and rationalises when faced with genuine cases of need generated by the fall-out from service in the cause of this country's freedoms.
Now if only the example of the departments of open and revolving doors (ie. immigration and justice) were to be followed with benefits doled out to those who absolutely have the least call on taxpayers' money, then there would be no argument, no demonstration and no povery among our most deserving citizens.


Not insurable, on our own.
said

Without getting to far into the weeds, for a lot of the jobs in the Military, mine for sure, you cannot even buy life insurance on civilian street. The insurance agent would start to sweat as we described our jobs.... and certainly would wish us well, but not insure us. We have no choice but Veteran Affairs. We have no union. The public, which says supports us, thinks Veteran Affairs is there for us. But reality is, Veteran Affairs has not been for the Veteran's in years. They are against Veterans, and try to nickel and dime every claim that comes in. Standard procedure to turn down most first claims, and they admit this by giving you an appeals brocedure at the time you first apply!The Ombudsman was the only one supporting Vets, and he has been released/fired. 2005 system should be reinstated!


fd
said

Absolutely they earned and deserve our support. These women and men knowing are putting their lives on the line and they go in despite knowing what is waiting for them when they return. They sacrifice not just in deployment. We are here, earning a competitive wage, living our lives with our complaints which is fractional of theirs.


Bill
said

How many Politicians would sign up to be Politicians if they were told beforehand that they wont be entitled to a real cushy retirement and all these benefits after retirement? Now, add in that you're a serving Politician and you aren't entitled to be treated as you thought on early or even late retirement, not the same but sort of..they would have an uproar!.. but wait a minute Politicians will always look after themselves so that wont ever happen....now change vocations and consider yourself a new Generation of young people wanting to Soldier or take that civi computer job but being really forced to consider that after you give 110% of yourself, body and mind and perform still what is looked on as a lower type job in Canada by the public and then get wounded or Killed you will not be looked after properly in the end as other Generations were? That would be an impossibility right?? Everybody loves the Soldier when they feel threatened but we Canadians are all untouchable from outside threats right? What if someday we could only field a home use only Military because we cant get anyone to join? Anybody can see the writing on the wall if this is not changed. How it got turned into this is largely dependent probably on somebody actively trying to prevent another generation of WW2 Veterans and the Admin that goes with it to save money and put it into social programs, White Poppies, help the speckled Lizards, the list goes on . Shameful!


Some true numbers
said

If you lose, both legs, both arms, are blind, are deaf, and get PTSD,....then VA will give you the max amount. I'm sick of Veteran Affairs throwing out this 260 Grand number, and the public thinking that is the norm under the lump sum "Payoff plan". Most injured Vets get 5 to 10 % under the new system, which with the same issues would have been about 20 % under the old system (Ripoff part 1), then get this lump sum about, which is about a third of the old system (Ripoff part 2). So at 10%, the injured vet will get about 25 grand, period. This same injured vet in 2005 would get a 20 percent pension for life, as it has been since ww2, so a monthly amount of maybe $ 250.00. The biggest differences are if you are injured at 30, or worse, 20.... you will be totally on your own, with your injury, for most of your life.


Outraged Vet
said

The 2006 New Veteran Charter was the slimiest goverment policy I ever saw. It raises the amount of injury you have to have to qualify for a pension, and even if you qualify, you only get a third of what you would have recieved if injured 2005 and previous years.Still Veteran Affairs smile and say the new charter is good for Vets... even the Doctors and care givers in the system will tell you it's a terrible system. Well most present day active Veterans signed up under the old system, but have been in injured under the new SYSTEM of only giving a third of your pension... but in a lump sum. I was told I am 10% injured for life, so they gave me 26 grand, and I am under the threat of losing my 18 year career, and have been passed over for future promotions. I'm in my mid thirties..this lump sum is not going to help me much in 30 years. Any other branch of Goverment, this would never happen due to union protection...but active military have to keep their mouths shut, or face possible charges.


CF from Alberta
said

To Mike S retired WO
"I want to go and apply for hearing aids through Veterans Affairs but I hesitate because they make you feel like it is your fault that your hearing is going and unless you come crawling to them on hands and knees it is almost impossible to get help from them." Mike, I encourage you to call the local VA office and asked them to send you the application forms. I did..and with my hearing test on the way in the Army, and one on the way out (which will be on your service file VA will obtain from Archives Canada) plus afterwards, I did receive approval for hearing aid and lump sum of $13,500. But the VA service was very good, and I had no bad experience.


Protesting from home!
said

I so wish I knew this were going on today..... we all support our troops in Canada, and now we all know the federal goverment stripped their pensions to a third in May, 2006. This is an outrage! Blackburn should be fired, and the 2005 system put back in place immediately.


Calgary Canuck
said

It is the bureaucracy, not just Parliament that is the source of the insanity. The soldiers of this country have for the most part been volunteers, serving in the belief that they would be cared for in return and treated with respect and dignity. If there are to be changes for the better it is the senior bureaucracy that should be investigated and cleared out, without their gold plated pensions, payouts and severances, and see how they react. I can just hear the stampede of patent leather footwear to the lawyers' offices now......We as citizens should be standing with our troops in this matter, or watch the government and their cronies continue to steal the freedoms and privileges we currently take for granted.


BC in BC
said

After serving 23 years in the military in the 70's to the 90's, my gross pension is $1,200. It wont be indexed to the cost of living for another 6 years, Fat pensions are for bureaucrats only being "present" on Parliament Hill for 8 years will give you a full pension for the rest of your life. They won't miss a kid's birthday party, their wedding anniversary, the passing of a loved one, being away from home months at a time. 8 years to be chauffeured, helped by a fully staffed office, 1st class seat or 5 star hotels for their private meetings. If life was only half as good in the trenches.

DavecBC
said

This isn't just politics, it's also about values. Who's worth more to you, the veteran who served his country for 20 years, or the hockey player who helped the team to the Stanley cup? The fireman who just pulled your kid out of his wrecked car, or the actor who starred in your favourite movie? We not only need to tell our government to fix this, but we also need to tell each other who is worth more to us as a society. Any of you planning to go to a game in the next week, take the money and put it in the poppy jar instead. I know I will.


Gord in Ottawa
said

to George V and others. Veterans didn't just suffer in wars. There have been quite a few deaths and many injuries in peacetime as well. I have just written a book about the worst peacetime disaster in the history of the Canadian Navy, titled "We Are As One". The many stories that I have received from men who have suffered through many years of emotional and physical problems is truly tragic. Would you consider $10K for twenty years of depression caused by PTSD fair or "FAT"?


Chris A Broken Sgt
said

We can give millions of $$$$ to other countries, but we wont fix the problems in our country we defended. I am a veteran of the 80's. I am broken and there come days that the pain and mental depression at the refusal of help from VA is almost unbearable. We won't get rich from getting our benefits but it sure would help us...me with my quality of life. I got broken in the defence of Canada all I'm asking is for respect and help from those that I protected. That's you Canada!


Beetle
said

It is about time every veteran stood up and said our bit. As a soldier since 1992 I have kept my mouth shut and did my duty, enough is enough the government sends us to do their bidding and then does not support us when we come back injured and damaged and changed for life. And now Afghanistan is not equal to WW2 what the hell is going on, Canada must do the right thing and and up to it's responsibility to our veterans.


Sam in sask
said

The first comment is right on. Where was the protest when the Liberals passed this in 2005. Oh that's right the media is the Liberal party. And stop blaming Mr. Harper and Mackay it was Mr. Harper that came forward when Pat Stogran brought this issue up. It is the bureaucrats that need a shake up not the Prime Minister.


Doug # BC
said

Issues like this would almost certainly be easier to resolve if people took off their political hats for the debate.Conservatives are in power now,so it is true that the the ball is in their court now.But the current arragement was an ALL PARTY arrangement, so the "spin" shoul be left at the door. Hating the current government, or blaming the last one is counter productive to a resolution that serves both veterans and tax paying Canadians fairly. Once the politicains start to think of this as an elction issue, there wil be no progress whatsoever. We will get nothing but spin and rhetoric until the day we eventually get a majority in our government. THEN,if it's a Liberal government, the serving members will get cut to pay for the veterans benefits. There will be fewer people serving, there will be no planes.There will be no new ships. We've seen that act before. We need a "non partisan" approach that gets tax payers and veterans the biggest bang for the money they spend.It has to take care of those who served,and are suffering.But it cannot be open to abuse,and it most certainly cannot be a system that promotes a short stint in the military as a life tme entitlement to prosperity,or the notion that the 25 year old widow of a fallen veteran will NEVER be able to do anything for herself again. This may not be easy.But it can NEVER be done fairly or methodically if the issue is lost in the din of poitical partisanship.It must be efficient,affordable,and generally agreed to by ALL parties. Nor should the cost of benefits for veterans be allowed to take away from those who ares still serving.They need planes,ships, and a lot of our support too.


radha
said

The Conservatives were the party for our defence force (they say that all the time - The Prime Minister included has said it many times) - the other parties are no good on this file. Where have the Conservatives been in the last 5 years and now many veterans are blowing up in Minister Jean Pierre Blackburn's face.


Brenda a service mans wife
said

@ Airborne trooper, I agree with you mostly but please don’t just slam PM Harper and the PC government. Go back in time and look where the real problems for the military and her vets. It started with the Liberal and Pierre Elliott Trudeau. Remember him? He tried to get rid of the military and when he could not do that he did the next best thing, he gutted the military. As for voting out the PCs and voting in a party with some integrity, may I ask who that will be and please don’t say the Liberals and Iggy. I know more about the military and the trials the vets go through as I grew up in a military home as an army brat and my husband has just retired as a WO after 25 years of service and I know the fight he is having with Veterans Affairs. This has gone on for many years with Veterans Affairs and the people that work in the offices of Veterans Affairs should be replaced by retired military people who know what it has been like to serve this country and also know what it is like to ask for help from Veterans Affairs and get nothing but a hard time.


CDN SOLDIER
said

To George V and others let me clear up what it's really like to be an injured vet since I was wounded in 2008. First of all there is the trauma of ok I almost lost my life and someone tried to kill me. Then comes the unkown as to what is going to happen, am i really bad and am I going home for this. Once you are able to you call your next of kin. In my case it was my wife and infant child. The only thing they have to go on that I am really ok is my word since they cannot rush to see you. Once the initial physical shock and injury is over you end your tour and go home. It usually takes some time but then the mental trauma starts in the remembering in vivid detail the things you saw and did, the times you spent with mates that are no longer here, the flash temper and that's just a few of the symptoms. I can appreciate your point about others being hurt here at home however unless you have experienced the same things I have in the last 16 years of service to this nation you have no place in commenting since it is like comparing apples and oranges to injuries sustained here and injuries overseas. Look around you on Nov 11th and see the age of Canada's new veterans. They are not old age pensioners anymore who fought a war we learned about in school. They are just barely out of school themselves and the charter has to be changed to compensate for someone who still has 50 years of living to do.


Mike S retired WO
said

After serving for 25 years in the army and being on the gun line with the tanks and artillery as well as small arms most of my career I now find my hearing is dropping off quite quickly now (I am in my mid 50s). I want to go and apply for hearing aids through Veterans Affairs but I hesitate because they make you feel like it is your fault that your hearing is going and unless you come crawling to them on hands and knees it is almost impossible to get help from them. It is long overdue for these people working for Veterans Affairs to realize the money is not coming out of their pockets and it is time to help the Vets who served this country not like them sitting in a warm office shuffling paper. As for Carl a Navy vet, I don’t know if you have started drawing CPP yet but wait until you do and the government starts clawing back your military pension. Then let's see how happy you will be with the benefits.


Barbara Morton
said

It doesn't matter who did the damage, Just fix it. These men and women gave up life, limb and quality of life for us to be able to wake up every morning to the freedoms that we enjoy. Think about what it would be like living under the rule of Hitler or Saddam Hussein. Try telling them they are wrong. Think about being a woman who's brother or father "thinks" you're not a virgin. and is preparing to put a bullet to your head. Think about having to wait in line and risk fighting your neighbour for a loaf of bread or bucket of water. Think about wondering if your loved one is coming home tonight by their own steam or in a body bag. Think about the horrors of death and destruction. Think about the sweet taste of freedom and do the right thing.


Lisa C
said

@George V. A fat pension? You call approximately $18K a yr for 18 yrs of service , a fat pension? (BTW, the pension is paid into by the service member and is separate from VAC) The max. payout from Veteran's Affairs is $267,000, but unless the soldier is missing both arms and legs or worse almost no one is entitled to the full amount. Quite a lot are only entitled to 5-10% of that money as a lump sum payment. They are able to access 2 yrs pay for retraining, but it has to be preapproved and continued benefits (Rx, prosthetics, etc.) only apply to the entitled condition. That means they are only covered for certain medications/devices used in treating their condition, not for antibiotics if they get Strep throat. Perhaps more education of the general public is required for more people to make informed opinions on this subject. ........And as for your self-employment status...Don't you dare compare yourself to so many others who have given up their basic rights and freedoms to secure yours. If your job is as dangerous as some of the situations our military have found themselves in, past and present, then you can apply for health/life insurance through a private company. You would be better taken care of if you did. Most all of those companies refuse coverage of military personnel because of the act of war, insurrection or terrorist clauses in those policies.


Sam
said

For George V: You might want to look up the military history in this country - Bosnia, the Gulf War - I am a retired soldier and I took my direction from the government of Canada - no matter who was in power. It is now up to the government to take care of us. You want the benefits that we receive, the recruiting centres are open but are you strong enough to actually commit to this life?


Chris in Kingston
said

George V: You may not get a "fat" pension, but the CF's job is to defend Canada in austere conditions with the good likelihood of severe injury so you can have your job in Canada and complain about "fat" pensions. If you even saw what the benefits package is, or have served in the military, you would know the NVC is a steaming pile designed by insurance company lawyers who work for VAC so they can save money. Don't worry George, the people collecting the "fat" pension you talk about are still proud to have served and gotten injured to ensure your right to free speech.


Ed in Albeta
said

Pierre in Chilliwack for prime minister. You've got it right. If politicians (servants of the people) treated themselves the same way as they treat OUR vets (with OUR MONEY) then perhaps we'd start seeing some decent government.

Carl Gustov
said

Why Does my family have to suffer with the SISIP clawback? I completed three tours had multiple injuries and subsequently released. Lumpsum payments now. Careful serving vets, civie life is just like the military, you will get miles of red tape and never be respected.

Niagara George
said

Once again, this goverment talks a good talk, but walks in the opposite direction. Sometimes I wonder how King Steve sleeps at night. He knows full well that in spite of the wonderful speech his writers prepared for him, in the background the funding is being cut. By now it has happened so many times, in so many areas, he must have become immune to his conscience.


Airborne trooper
said

Really!!! C-201, SISIP ClAWBACK, LUMPSUM PAYMENTS. Hey Mr MacKay/Harper, is it that hard to realize that Veterans are suffering? "We Support Our Soldiers" has got to be more than a slogan at Christmas, Harper. Can't wait till the next election so we can vote in some integrity.


Jim McB
said

It is interesting that no journalists will discuss the real root of this problem with veterans today. As a deficit cutting or debt reduction measure, a Liberal government of the day wrote off the $40,000,000,000 federal share of the Military and RCMP pension fund. If that money had remained in the fund and could have been reallocated there would not be a problem.The real problem then, is that those who served the country, got to pay for federal spending through a hollowing out of their pension fund. The Liberal government broke the trust in an agreement and they should be held accountable for that action. The problem also has to be put into context. As a retired and pensioned veteran I have had two very serious health issues. I received excellent care and assistance using the Medicare system at virtually no cost other than my tax contributions to the system. On the other hand if you are young and disabled as a result of military duty then you should be the primary focus of the DVA. When resources are limited decisions have to be made.


Sapper D
said

I am tired of people comparing any other jobs to being a soldier. We are not CIVIL SERVANTS like the city government employees. We pay Employment Insurance but can never claim. We have no union to help us, cannot demonstrate while serving, and we are forced to live as Third Class Canadians. We had a promise that when we get injured in the line of duty for our country, we know we will be looked after. As far as "FAT" pensions go, who are you kidding? We barely have enough to live on, are well within the POVERTY LINE, and there is no extra for children, homes, hopes, dreams etc.


Wayne in HRM
said

to Frank in NSIf his predecessor did not play "politics" as you call speaking out, then this issue would not have the attention that it does today. It would have been brought forward by politicians and therefore had been looked at with an ideological bent and been more partisan. If speaking out on an issue is politicizing it then we are all politicians and that is a hard pill to swallow, since I associate the politicizing of society with far more totalitarian systems that we have fought against.


Chris
said

To George V.Uhmmm excuse me, but police, firemen, etc... pay into a superannuation just the same as CF members do, but their plan does not pay lump sums... it covers them for life!!! The exact same way we USED to have but now we get screwed!!! To those who feel that 250 grand is enough... GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!!! If a member of 18 yrs old loses his legs, he has to renovate his home to compensate his disability. Guess how much that costs!!! Next, he has to MAINTAIN that reno for the rest of his life.... GUESS HOW MUCH THAT COSTS!?!?! And guess what, we still haven't even talked about prosthetics and their maintanence costs yet!!! THINK ABOUT IT before opening your traps and speaking!!!


Parl Hill Air Head
said

Cancel the $12 Billion for F35 and get used F15s from the Americans for $4B. Save $8 Billion and compensate the war vets similar to Parliamentarians pension plans min $40K each and retroactive to their retirement date. If they refuse give our politicians M16s boots and flack jackets and put them all on the next plane to the Afghanistan war they support! If they refuse send their first born. Then we'll see how fast they change their minds! Where do we get these cold hearted politicians from? Too bad we can't vote them out - they're all the same!


Hugh pei
said

I hope the vets who will need help when they return home, do not get treated with the same treatment that the WCB puts out. These great men and women need all the Pat Stogrens on their side as they can get. Now here is a man who should run for gov. God bless all the soldiers and protect them from the cons.


Paul, Simcoe
said

The Department of Veterans Affairs needs a complete overhaul. The bureaucratic nonsense they put people through is nothing more than a sick joke. Try dealing with them on anything and you'll soon realize what incompetence looks like. Support the troops. Support the Veterans. Demand action from our federal politicians whatever their party is.


Blake Gamble, CD, Sgt (Ret'd)
said

It is amazing how much we have to fight and argue with these crappy bureaucrats, but at no time at all did i ever say no... and that was through 24 yrs of service. Enough is enough. God bless my fellow Vets!


George V.
said

If I injure myself at my job here at home being self employed, who will go to bat for me like the Veterans and the Legion, where can I apply for compensation or a fat pension. When you enlist with the armed forces getting injured or worse you know this is a risk you take, same with police, firemen etc. I know we are presently engaged in a war in Aghanistan, this only started 9-10 years ago, before that we weren't involved in a serious conflict like that since the Korean war.

Sapper Dave
said

I hope this rally crosses our great country and vibrates the doors of Parliament! This is the first of its kind in Canada. We shouldn't have to fight our own government in the SCC for benefits we paid for. Rally organizer for Kenora, Ontario.


simon
said

That's right Molly. Let's blame a party that hasn't been in power for five years. The legislation passed with ALL party support and was actually enacted by the conservatives.


Pierre, Chilliwack BC
said

I find the attitude of the Government is appalling in the treatment of our veterans, young and old. Think about it MPs serve 8 years and get a pension for life. How ever long our Veterans serve, those brave men and women actually give their life, limbs, their health and sanity for fighting this country's wars and peace mission, deserve peace of mind at home. Having a government that truly would be proud to take care of them and make sure that they have a pension for life, after returning from any war theater.


JR from Pointe Claire
said

Molly - quit playing politics with this sensitive issue. My father and mother served Canada in WW2 and both came home safely. My family at the time were fortunate, not like a lot of other soldiers' families. I had a Great Uncle from WW1 who was "shell shocked" and was in Ste. Anne's Vets Hospital his whole life. He was a lawyer before serving and a vegetable upon his return. He died in that hospital. Today, these wars are different with more complex weapons and IEDs, etc. and injuries continue both physically and mentally. These kids and vets deserve the best treatment for serving our country. Put our crappy politics behind and take care of these veterans you MPs. Where the injuries take place should have no bearing! I support our vets - go get those MPs and if need be, make them accountable for their lack of concern! They don't seem to care going right to the top - MacKay & Harper. Make some noise!!!


island girl
said

I didn't protest back in 2005 because I didn't KNOW about it. Thinking back of my father who was a WW II vet, he couldn't have survived without that pension. He broke an arm in the army that wasn't set. In later years it was re-broken and set, but not properly. Seems like a small thing but not being able to bend the wrist limits your jobs in a pre-computer world although he always did work full time despite his pain. I'm tired of the little guys giving it all and getting nothing and the stuffed shirts taking so much. There IS the money...it's just going to all the wrong places!!!!


Ron
said

I am not from a military background nor are my kids, but if we are going to send them in harm's way, let's really support our troops when they need it. I don't mind extra taxes if it will be slotted for these kind of benefits. A lot of heroes are now fighting a different fight because of their wounds, let us not forget them.


Julie Page
said

As the daughter of a veteran I am appalled at the lengths that governments will go to, to keep money from the veterans and their widows. These men fought at the front and many gave their lives to protect our country. Where does this government get off in doing away with the VA pensions? Will this insanity ever stop?


Carl
said

Whether or not a lump sum payment works depends on how well the recipient manages it. As a Navy veteran, I think the veterans benefits in this country are very generous.


Frank in NS
said

I am a veteran of 22 years in Canada's Armed Forces and I believe that there is room for some additional support. My sister is a widow of a WWII veteran and is she is treated very well. Reading some of this I also see a green-eyed monster. Some of these veterans only served in Newfoundland which at the time was considered a foreign country (prior to 1949). Let's be reasonable in our demands. We were volunteers for a cause, not money. Maybe this new ombudsman will not practise politics like his predecessor.

Capt (ret) Lance Usher
said

Thank you for covering this story. I am one of the organizers of the Trenton Ontario Rally. Please do not let this story drop and give us your continued support. Veterans fought for and protected this great country. Some were injured mentally, some physically, some on exercise in Canada and some on overseas operations. There are currently two standards for injuries within VA (that is if they even give you the time of day). Injuries sustained on operations or injuries sustained in Canada. Same injury suffered in Canada qualifies for much less than one sustained on operations. Hmmmmm, two classes of veterans! Now the proposals are offering more for only the most seriously injured, again separating the classes of Veterans. Go back to the old system of monthy pensions, it worked. Lump sum, even the max payout does not work! Once again, thank you for covering this story.


Molly
said

Where was all the uproar and protest when the Liberal Party passed this legislation in a single day in May 2005, with a spring 2006 implementation date, and with no input from other parties? The Conservatives are not responsible for this legislation being in place, and are trying to fix what is brought to their attention. Place your anger and protest where it belongs, with the Liberal Party of Canada.


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