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Ontario Finance Minsiter Dwight Duncan reacts to a journalist's questions during a press briefing in Toronto, on Friday, March 5, 2010. (Chris Young / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Minister of Industry Tony Clement comments on projects in his riding as he speaks with the media following party caucus meetings on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Wednesday June 16, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan appears on CTV's Power Play from Windsor, Ont. on Friday, June 11, 2010.

Manitoba, Ontario among provinces backing long census

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CTV News Channel: Tony Clement speaks
The industry minister says the government wants to ensure data is still available, but they are taking into consideration those people in Canada who feel the Census is an unwarranted intrusion into their private lives, and the threat of jail time is inappropriate.

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Ontario Finance Minsiter Dwight Duncan reacts to a journalist's questions during a press briefing in Toronto, on Friday, March 5, 2010. (Chris Young / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Minister of Industry Tony Clement comments on projects in his riding as he speaks with the media following party caucus meetings on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Wednesday June 16, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan appears on CTV's Power Play from Windsor, Ont. on Friday, June 11, 2010.

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Ontario Finance Minsiter Dwight Duncan reacts to a journalist's questions during a press briefing in Toronto, on Friday, March 5, 2010. (Chris Young / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Date: Tue. Jul. 20 2010 7:44 PM ET

Canada's premiers and major organizations continue to speak out against the Conservatives' decision to scrap the long-form census in favour of a voluntary application.

The census is now expected to be a hot topic at the upcoming Council of the Federation taking place in August, according to Jim Eldridge, Manitoba's acting deputy of intergovernmental relations.

"Unless there's a correction, given the attention this is getting and the opposition, we'd be surprised if it didn't come up," Eldridge, who is hosting the conference, told The Canadian Press.

The governments of Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec and Prince Edward Island have all come out against the idea, reminding Ottawa that data collected from the mandatory census enables them to draft policy and deliver services.

Government officials in Nova Scotia have said they are looking closely at the census change and trying to determine how it will impact their policies.

Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan got into the debate on Monday, telling reporters the province was afraid the switch would cause governments to lose important data.

"That data is extremely important on a whole variety of things," Duncan said.

"I think the best two examples I can give you are our anti-poverty strategy and virtually every spending and tax decision we make. So, our officials are concerned about the quality of data that will be coming forward, the comparability of data going forward with this change."

The provinces haven't been alone in denouncing the plan. Organizations like the Registered Nurses Association of Ontario and the Canadian Conference of the Arts have voiced their concern about letting people fill out the census on a voluntary basis.

"It is indeed highly unlikely that low-paid artists and other types of culture workers will have the time or motivation to provide the kind of information required for a household survey if it is voluntary," Alain Pineau, national director of the Canadian Conference of the Arts, said in a letter to Clement.

"They will therefore be part of the several underrepresented elements of the workforce and of Canadian society in general."

The Conservative government has been defending itself against criticism of the census plan, dismissing critics as "special interest groups."

Industry Minister Tony Clement told the Globe and Mail Tuesday that he took the advice of StatsCan officials when he asked them to explore how to scrap the long-form census and replace it with a volunteer one.

But officials within Statistics Canada say Clement has been misrepresenting the advice they gave him on the matter, according to the Globe and Mail.

"Not at all," Clement told CTV News Channel Tuesday when asked if he misrepresented the advice of StatsCan officials. "Their role is to provide advice to government, which they did do in this case."

He said the government had a "dialogue" with StatsCan officials about the fact some Canadians feel the census is overly intrusive, and asked for advice on how to implement a non-mandatory long-form census.

"We took their advice to increase the sample size to 33 per cent and to have an advocacy campaign with that," Clement said.

Clement has maintained that the data garnered from a volunteer census would be effective. However, according to the Globe and Mail he was told otherwise, and virtually all statisticians interviewed on the matter have said a volunteer census reduces the value of the data.

As of 2011, Canadians will no longer be required to complete the long-form census, which 20 per cent of the population normally had to fill out. Replacing that is a volunteer survey sent out to 33 per cent of homes.

The Conservative move has been criticized as ideological in nature by a wide-range of groups, from the Canadian Medical Association, the C.D. Howe Institute, religious groups, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to the opposition parties and provincial governments.

The Conservative line has been that Canadians do not want the government to force them to answer questions on the census – refusing to do is punishable by fine or jail time. However, there have only three complaints to the Privacy Commissioner in the last decade, the office reported.

"These are personal questions, and some, not all, conscientiously object to that," Clement said.

Some questions on the census ask how many bedrooms are in your home, or whether you have a physical disability.

Clement admits the data from the mandatory census was extremely valuable.

"There is no question that the data is something that is quite valued and is used," he said, noting businesses, public institutions and a number government bodies rely on the information.

Canada's chief statistician Munir Sheikh will hold an internal town hall meeting on Wednesday for employees of Statistics Canada who are concerned about the decision.

The switch from the mandatory long-form census to a voluntary survey will cost the federal organization about $30 million. About $5 million will be spent to mail out the survey to 60 per cent more households and up to $25 million to encourage public participation.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Allan Eizinas
said

During the right wing George Bush administration, in the fall of 2002, Congress asked the Census Bureau to find out how the ACS would function if it were voluntary instead of mandatory, and tests were conducted in the spring of 2003. The census Bureau warned against it and now the survey remains mandatory and contains many questions similar to Canada’s long-form census, including those on race, education, employment and relationships between people in the household. Stupid people do not learn from their mistakes. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Really smart people learn from other people’s mistakes. It looks like the Harperites are not smart or really smart. This looks like another example of extreme ideology putting blinkers on common sense. Enough already!


Jonas
said

Undoubtedly, the vast majority of these ideological morons complaining about filling out a census are more than happy to have Zellers or Shoppers Drug Mart track every household purchase they do with their "Rewards" cards.


Frank
said

So, if this becomes "to fill out on a volunteer basis" please don't bother sending this to me as I will not fill it out. I do enough volunteering in my community that I don't have enough time to get this done. It will only take space on my table then in my recycle bind.


Aliza
said

(a) The statistics act is far stricter than the privacy act. It trumps all other legislation. Private data is NEVER sold off; any analysis is about a group of people, not any one individual. e.g. men aged 40-45 who live in Edmonton and smoke, or people in a postal code with kids under 5, etc(b) You can't get the data from other good sources. Privacy legislation prevents merging of databases. So, sure, the property tax people know you about your house-- but that won't help the city planners know where roads are needed, or the public health people target efforts to protect groups from the next pandemic influenza. (c) Do you drive on roads? Have kids in school? See a doctor or go to a hospital? Do you shop at local businesses? Belong to a church? Are you a francophone in an English language province or an anglophone in Quebec? Are you or your parents aging and want services to be there to help you stay in your home and be independent and healthy? Those questions in the long form census are ALL used to design policies and programs by all levels of governments, and by others to help you. (d) Using other surveys to get this infomration isn't feasible. Do you want dozens of pollsters calling you? Plus, response rates for polls are poor so the data quality is highly unreliable. Not to mention that your taxes will go up for each municipality, province, etc to get the money to run those polls, and your charity dollars will go to polling, rather than helping people. This cancellation is a very poor decision, for political reasons only. Canadians will hate it once they realize its implications. Particularly since doing it is rare-- and doesn't take long to complete!


Albertaboy111
said

Anybody else giving credence to my hunch that they just want to scrap this so they will not have to explain themselves when faced with facts. It has happened many times before that this government has tried to mislead the public on it's policy based on ideology, only to be made the fool by people who are experts in this area backing it up with facts. If we can no longer get sufficient or accurate statistical data, they will always just be able to say "that data is flawed, so your argument must be too." Very sneaky of these little buggers.


Albertaboy111
said

The funny thing is I bet they have gotten a lot more complaints about the fact that they are scrapping it than they did over the census in the first place. Oh well. You want to know the truth of what is going on here and what basis this decision just look at what they said about it. "We got thousands of complaints about the registry, but we deleted and destroyed them all." They sure lie good. It's sorta like when Mulroney said he lobbied many foreign governments, and then proceeded to list off a number of dead people, knowing they could never dispute his claim. I am so sick and tired of these people trying to govern by deception, intimidation, and obstruction.


Greg in Cambridge
said

I believe the Majority of Canadians want the long invasive form scrapped and will thank the liberals to stop meddling in affairs that harm Canadians privacy.We don't want it. Get it? Go BBQ a weenie or something.


Saskman
said

Get rid of the long form (and gun registry). If you as reader feel it is that important, please volunteer the information, that is your option!


NormJarves
said

This census no longer represents "Canadians", but a subgroup of "Canadians who are willing to fill out a 40 page census". Any statistician or economist can tell you the differences between the two.

Additionally, the very fact that some people consider this information to be private, and do not wish to share it, merely reinforces the fact that a voluntary census will not represent those people - if the census is filled out by fewer people with, for example, disabilities (a question on the census often referred to when mentioning breach of privacy), then federal funding will reflect those numbers and less money will be designated to support them.

This strikes me as an attempt to under-represent minorities and the impoverished. This is the government's only method for collecting much of the data involved, and reducing its functionality seems irresponsible. I also find it highly unlikely that the nuances I have mentioned are lost on the experts and politicians involved in this decision.


Chuck
said

One solution is to delay implementation of the voluntary census and do a side by side comparison of voluntary versus mandatory for a few years in order to verify data quality. If a voluntary census can be developed which is as accurate as the mandatory census, then the problem is solved. If not, stay with the mandatory.


Sober, Newmarket
said

Bring back the long sensus form.


Bill in BC
said

The national census was NEVER intended to become the manyheaded monster it now is. Scrap the long form, the data is available through other means. And as for the upset mandarins at StatsCan, time to remember who you work for - you do not set policy you provide data. Period.


Pat in Ottawa
said

I completely agree with Carl - "The state should not compel citizens to provide personal information for the benefit of special interest groups." My tax dollars should not be used to support the activities of any organization other than the government. If the CMA wants demographic information, then they should go and buy it.


rogervarley
said

EdB wROTE: " Sane Canadians will offer what's reasonably (and legally) requested...not 1 word more!"
Yes, Ed, and the long form IS LEGAL!


Peter Rapsey
said

I just don't trust these guys and their agenda anymore. Lets get back to making a better Canada.


JonA
said

Congrats to Clement and Harper for finally uniting religious groups and scientists. Bravo!


Carl Raskin
said

The income tax form is also an intrusion by government into the privacy of Canadians. Let's make filling it out voluntary


Scott
said

Please God save us. On second thought, don't bother. It is simply not worth the effort.


Tony Cement makes no Sense
said

Why do the Cons have to try to fix what ain't broke. Remember when they wanted to change the wording in the national anthem. Here you have prok barreling Tony Clement, who just dumped 50 million big ones in his riding to buy votes. Tell me this Tony. Why spend more to put out 13 % more long forms, for a less acurate sampling of something you say is intrusive. Why not do away with it all together?The bottom line is that gathering these stats helps hospital, businesses, schools, and governments.


LDL in ONT
said

Firstly Stats Can needs to be reminded that they work for the government of the day and it is the electorate that will pass judgement on the government's decisions. It's not their responsibility at all to comment on the validity of that decision. As for all those that oppose the elimination of the mandatory requirement to complete the long form census, they're more than welcome to voluntarily complete it. The private and public organizations that want information relevent to their cause can commission a survey if its so important to them.


peter in MB
said

If this census information that we send by mail ever fell into the wrong hands? Hmm Can you say “Identity theft”! Frankly I don’t trust the government to keep my personal information privet!


DRR
said

I Fully support the Government on the Change!!With all the people complaining, just proves people will have no problem filling out their long census form.My opposition to the census is that stats Canada forces people to answer private questions and then SELLs that info to foreign companies moving into Canada to put Canadian companies out of Business. If taking a poll of 2000 or less people can tell them who is going to win an election, then a poll will give you all the info they need.


L
said

I think many people didn't read the article, the census will now be voluntary, which means that those wanting low cost housing, those concerned with road conditions, those who have any other specific interests a census may discuss can still send in the form. All it is doing is giving us the right to our privacy, the right to not have the government force us to reveal our personal information and the right to choose. If you want to fill out all or part of the census, great, you can. If you don't, then you don't have to. Why should we be forced to? The privacy laws exist because everyone was screaming for protection of information, yet now many of those same people are screaming to have providing that personal information mandatory. Plus, as mentioned, this information is often obtained elsewhere, like your property taxes, they know how many bedrooms etc you have, and every day you hear on the news about housing and its availability. I'm sure they are not getting this information from the census.


Milton
said

I love the WHAAAAAA, the conservatives are bullies.. The real bullies are Chretien and Trudeau.. Somebody remind Chretien he is no longer an elected official. Stop trying to bully us into socialism!!!


bikerborz
said

Regardless of the political and media hoorah about this, I'm glad that the census long form is being turfed. I've had to fill out this thing before, and the only relevent information it asks for can be found on my tax form. All the rest, absolutely every last bit, is nobody else's concern, and does indeed constitute an invasion of privacy. Really, what does the gov't need to know about my private life? I pay my taxes, end of statement. They don't need to know anything more. So, if I receive another of these forms, now that it's voluntary to fill it out, the form's getting turfed.


Advokat
said

Edb: Spell much?!? And have you even READ the Privacy Act?!? You will have to educate us all as to the "clear" violation to which you refer, because I sure as hell can't find it. It is interesting that those who most vocally and vociferously oppose the mandatory long form census are also those whose posts contain the most spelling and grammatical errors. I'm just sayin'...


PBW
said

Sue states that "A good government would be encouraging more information from Canadians". I suppose she would also be in favor of CCTV cameras on every street corner so government can learn even more about individual habits and behaviour; and, no doubt, a simplified T1 form - one that asks "what is your income?" on one line, followed by the instruction "Send it", for that sort of thinking would require much more government, thus more taxation. Such thinking, if adopted by the majority, especially as the result of apathy, would lead to a world similar to Orwell's Nineteen-eighty-four. I remember when Trudeau said "the government has no place in the nation's bedrooms", or words to that effect. By making this change to the census, the government is reducing its impact on Joe Citizen. If interest groups need data, let them collect it, and create employment for call-center workers.


Chris Redfield
said

When dozens of groups including medical, scientific, and religious groups start opposing something the government is doing you can bet the government made the wrong choice. Have you filled out a census form before? Do you know the questions that are on the form? Do you know how the data collected is used? GET THE FACTS!


Fiend, AB
said

It's no one's business what I have in my house, how much I drink, how many vehicles I own, what my ethnic background is, etc,. So why would I appreciate being told that I must disclose that information? Canada is supposed to be a "free country", but when I get hit with a mandatory census form like that, it makes me question just how "free" we really are. At least offer to compensate me for filling out the damn thing!


Peter in MB
said

Any political party that wants to give me the Right to freedom to chose… is a Democratic party. Any political party that wants to take away my right to chose and forces me to do something under threat of criminal charges is an Iron fisted totalitarian Dictatorship party!


Observer
said

Robert 777 is a real rebel. Look out everyone: HE REFUSED TO FILL OUT THE FORM!!!He was probably just worried about failing the census quiz.


C. Black
said

What!A member of the Harper cabinet distorting facts and information ...... I'm totally shocked.


Harper Must Go
said

This is just a case of Harper trying to control the availability of information. What I object to most, however, is the blatant lying by the government. They claim that they are scrapping the census due to privacy concerns, yet there have been almost no complaints whatsoever about the census. It was a completely manufactured justification with no truth behind it. I am soooo sick and tired of Harper and his neo con jesus freak troglodytes.


mic
said

Its obvious those on the right have no clue as to how the economy works or the census stats fit into this. Once again a minister in this govt' that has no clue and remove all doubts by opening thier mouths.How many people have had anything happen to them because of the long form ZERO.


Robert777
said

Thanks Goodness the Conservative government is standing up and making the census a voluntary form. I for one do not like to get threatened by Government, mainly Stats Canada with a fine or jail time. I have never cooperated with the census and I refuse to answer any questions. A number of years ago I was threatened by the government with a fine or possibly jail time if I did not comply and answer census questions. I wrote a formal letter to them saying "Jail Me". They never did jail me.... Three cheers for the Conservative Government. None if we can finally put the "Gun Registry" to rest.


charlie
said

And asking for the number of bathrooms in my home, or my religous affiliation, or who does the shopping for food and other supplies - under penalty of fine or jail time for not answering - contributes to matters just how?


Sue
said

A good government would be encouraging more information from Canadians. It would make sense to me if the government gave an incentive to vote & fill out a census. You go vote & fill out a census at the same time, they give you a cheque for twenty bucks.


Jayne Goody
said

Clement is completely mis-informed: The long for does NOT ask how Cdns get to work or how long it takes, or whether they have a mental or physical incapacity or whether their children do!! They do ask how many bedrooms in the home as an indicator of overcrowding, dwelling size, housing condition and quality of life. This data is crucial for funding programs for low-income, women & new immigrants, cancelling it is a huge mistake.


Edb(Hamilton)
said

Do not waiver Mr. Minister. This long form (much like the firearms license application) CLEARLY violates the privacy act. I've yet to here 1 liberal explain to the Canadian people why it's acceptable to coerce citizens under threat of prosecution to divulge personal information to the state which will intern sell said information to various marketing and/or public interest groups who are unelected and therefore unaccountable to the citizens who fund this intrusive fishing expedition. The "confidentiality" argument used by the proponents of this scheme know full well that through the "statistics act" obligations to confidentiality can be circumvented. For those spinning in circles terrified by Canadians exercising their right to freedom of choice, go right ahead and voluntarily give all the information you like. Sane Canadians will offer what's reasonably (and legally) requested...not 1 word more!


Scott in Montreal
said

Reform party Conservatives again pandering to the far Right. I still have yet to see any proof of the Cons' assertion of the supposed 'majority' of Canadians opposing the long form. Whether it's Aids funding, their 'Tough on Crime' fiasco, or the Census - the Cons keep demonstrating themselves as out of touch with the majority of Canadians.


Ron from NS
said

Harper and his government officials want to put Canada back into the dark ages. The ideology from the Conservatives trumps all science and reasoning and is turning us into a backwater country. This is just another step into killing off all of Canada's social program, something that Harper and the Conservatives have wanted to do all along. They couldn't do it through the front door, so they are trying it via the back door without any debate. Harper has said that once he finished with Canada, you wouldn't recognize it. I guess like all the other things he does, he didn't tell you his Canada was going to be worse off.


Carl
said

I agree 100 percent with the Conservative government on this policy, for the following reasons: To the extent that the info requested on the long census form is useful in the formulation of good public policy, it is redundant. Much of it is collected by other means, such as through the income tax process, property tax assessments, registration of students in schools, etc. Also, much of the info requested on the long census form is less relevant to public policy than to special interest groups. If such groups are concerned about the degradation of data caused by making the form voluntary, then they should collect their own data. The state should not compel citizens to provide personal information for the benefit of special interest groups.


JayRoc
said

This government, after promising to be open, transparent, and accountable, has done more to push an ideology, has been more secretive and stone-walling, than any before in recent memory. This is just the latest in senseless game playing and partisan politics by an extremely ideological government, who can't even listen to common sense. ENOUGH from these bullies!


Jim McB
said

I am really tiring of the media distortion of events to feed their own political bias. I quite frankly believe the Minister in this case and would bet that the Globe and Mail has some secret spy in the mail room or some disaffected Liberal trying to cause trouble.I am tolerating the government but I am ashamed of the Canadian media.


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