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'Climategate' scientists honest, but not open enough

Chairman of the review group, Sir Muir Russell talks to the media on their findings at the Royal Institution in London, Tuesday July 7, 2010, during the release of their report into the University of East Anglia e-mails on climate change. (AP / Sang Tan)
Chairman of the review group, Sir Muir Russell talks to the media on their findings at the Royal Institution in London, Tuesday July 7, 2010, during the release of their report into the University of East Anglia e-mails on climate change. (AP / Sang Tan)

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Date: Wednesday Jul. 7, 2010 10:04 PM ET

An independent report has concluded that scientists at the Climatic Research Unit should have been more open about the data in their possession, though they did not manipulate its presentation to put forward a particular thesis on climate change.

The report was the culmination of a second inquiry that followed the publication of more than 1,000 emails that were hacked from the University of East Anglia email accounts of CRU scientists and posted on the Internet late last year.

CRU scientists were shown to be use disparaging words about their critics in their emails and to be discussing ways of steering clear of climate change skeptics -- such as one scientist who said the only way to deal with them was "continuing to publish quality work in quality journals (or calling in a Mafia hit)." A Toronto-based climate change critic was derided as being a "bozo," "fraud" and "moron" in various emails that were made public.

The uproar that followed the leaked emails became known as "Climategate," which erupted the month before the UN held its Copenhagen climate change conference.

Britain has already held one parliamentary inquiry into the Climategate scandal, which examined the research being worked on at the CRU. That inquiry concluded in March that the science put forward by the CRU was solid and that the reputation of the CRU and its former chief Phil Jones "remains intact," a position that was backed up by another independent investigation that released its own findings in April. Critics, however, claim these investigations were flawed.

A second British inquiry was led by Muir Russell, a former principal and vice-chancellor of the University of Glasgow, which looked at the ways CRU scientists behaved in handling and releasing data, approaching peer review and how they presented their results to the public.

Its findings were released Wednesday, with Russell saying that the rigour and honesty of the CRU scientists "are not in doubt."

"But we do find that there has been a consistent pattern of failing to display the proper degree of openness," said Russell.

Moreover, the Russell report chides the University of East Anglia for not embracing the "spirit of openness" that is demanded by Freedom of Information laws. It says the university needs to improve its process for handling such requests.

A particularly noteworthy part of the Climategate controversy was related to an email Jones, the former CRU chief, sent to a colleague referring to a "trick" used to "hide the decline" in a variable used to track global temperatures – an exchange that led to allegations that the CRU scientists were faking global warming trends. The Russell report rejected this claim of critics, though it did acknowledge that a resulting graph was unintentionally misleading.

With the release of Russell's report, Jones will return to work at the research centre.

University of East Anglia Vice-Chancellor Edward Acton said the Russell report "completely exonerated" Jones.

Jones will now be the CRU's director of research, which Acton said would free him from administrative duties.

Some scientists have said the fallout from the Climategate controversy will make science more open in the sense that it will be harder for researchers to hide from critics.

"The release of these emails was a turning point, a game-changer," Mike Hulme, a professor of climate change at the University of East Anglia, said in a recent interview with The Guardian newspaper.

"Already there is a new tone. Researchers are more upfront, open and explicit about their uncertainties, for instance."

With files from The Associated Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Kim
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Yes were all smarter than those scientists aren't we! I loved the hillbillies that post their opinions on this site, it makes me laugh out loud, till my tummy hurts. Thanks for your humor, don't tell Harper or he'll hit us with a humor tax.


Dr L
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Dr M you report one side as fact and ignore much of the other credible research. You note a correlation between a rise in temperature and a rise in CO2. In fact many credible studies concur with this assessment. The problem for your arguement is the rise in temperature is causing the rise in CO2 not the reverse as many climate change supports suggest. point is CO2 rise is a result of temperature rise. NOT CO2 levels rising are causing temperatures to rise. So the theory of CO2 causing climate change has been refuted by many. Second a majority of scientist believe there may be a link to temperature rise and the sun's activity.The fact remains now that the CO2 theorists have been continually discredited science is now starting to look for other causes. So Dr M don't purport to be an expert and then only present one side. That is not good science.


Dr. M
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Ryan: thanks for the rational, adult, informative response. My comment on this Russian scientist was based on the quote I got from a climate change newsletter- it is he who is claiming that we will have an ice age in 4 years, not me. He could of course be correct about the sun growing quiet, in which case, we might have a window of opportunity to lower our CO2 emissions before the sun gets active again. Notice, however, that this is the exact opposite of what climate change deniers argue- they say there are no greenhouse effects, while he seems to be saying (according to you) that there are, but that we are being spared their impact because the sun is actually quieter. Deniers claim that the earth is warming due to "natural cycles"- he says it is cooling due to solar activity. In any case, he's not someone whom the deniers ought to be quoting in their defense, is he? Linda- you are correct in saying that we began this morning by talking about what these scientists did- they withheld information, but didn't alter it or fudge it. Their reason is that there is a denier who keeps taking their research and distorting it to suit his own agenda, and they are gertting tired of his antics. But you're correct about wanting the information to make up your own mind. The problem is that in this case- and in many others- lay people are not really qualified to give a qualified opinion. It is often easy to sway them with distortions, or often outright untruths, as we have seen again and again in this and other forums. So no wonder scientists get tired of the nonsense.


Linda in Vancouver
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Even after reading all these posts I am still at a loss as to how anyone can defend hiding facts from people,then expecting them to make informed choices. It sounds like a criminal trail.The prosecuting attorney is required to present all of the evidence, which of cure includes evidence that might set the accused free.On the other side if the table is a defense attorney who is only required to present evidence that will exonerate his client.Even if he has information that shows his client is guilty,he is allowed to keep that to himself. In Parliament,it seems like to opposition want to have it both ways.The government is expected to be transparent and honest,but the opposition can suppress any information it pleases to. To have an honest debate,transparency and truth have to be knives that cut both ways.While there is nothing necessarily evil about being factually incorrect,there is absolutely something wrong with deliberately lying,or hiding information that is relavant to the case at hand. That's what these scientists did.It was wrong, and they got caught.They are still almost certainly correct about climate change.But their morals are now suspect.You cannot legitimately defend lies,or the cover up without surrendering your own credibility.


Spence in Ontario
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Climate gate was completely bogus to begin with. Just a bunch of deniers trying to hype something nonexistent. I saw copies of the 3 emails out of the supposed 1000 one that were hacked and none of them had any real information that could point to the entire field of climate science being false. The biggest clue to anyone is that there was no direct information in regards to some conspiracy with a bunch of scientists in communication to try an fool the world like deniers and some conservatives ('some' not all) seem to claim. I think global warming/climate change is real. There is some room for debate over the exact scale mankind contributes in pollutants, though it is far more likely to be quite significant, and the potential long term effects of it. Outright denial especially based on 'climate gate' shows a person has very little understanding of the topic or is simply unwilling to be swayed.


Doug # BC
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I have to say to "Jamie,Ottawa",that I did indeed read the article mentioned.I guess what you take from this study will depend on which facts you decide to accept,and which ones you would like to forget about.And isn't that what we're actually debating about.Not climate change itself,but whether or not people have a responsibilty to debate the issue on the merits of ALL of the information available.Or is is acceptable to use only information that supports your side of the argument,and deliberately hide the information that may cast doubt? Being "liberal" or "conservative",as the article clearly states is not absolute,and like beauty, the label is largely subjective. Now in politics,supporting the Liberal Party does not necessarily equate to holding a "liberal view".There are "liberals" in the Conservative party,and "conservatives" in the Liberal party.In my opinion,as a FORMER supporter of the Liberal party,is that people in that party,just as those in the NDP,tend to be more loyal to the party,no matter what the issue.That tells me that they are letting the party do most of their critical thinking for them.And,rightly or wrongly,that leads me to believe that they never really debate issues.They just spin the party line.Overt loyalty to ANY party,on EVERY issue,is the definition of someone who can't think for himself,thus is unable to change his/her mind because the position they take was not theirs to begin with.It was the party's.Your generalization about Conservatives is just plain ridiculous.As are your conclusions about the article.Based of some very selective use of the facts you like,and the omission of the ones you don't ;like. You can doubt my conclusions if it makes you feel better.But I will say this,I left the Liberal party because socialism offers no "liberal" life style choice.Socialism limits free choice by imposing it's choice.


Jon in London ON
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Can we bottle up what these guys are saying? Maybe in gallon cans, because it's a beautiful day today and I want to WHITEWASH MY FENCE!!!!!!!


Linda in Vancouver
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Today Wendy is right,but she had nothing to conribute. I am still wondering what people are debating about.I honestly thought it was about telling the truth,more than about climate change.What I seem to be hearing from those who are pushing the climate change agenda,is that it's OK to lie or hold back infprmation that doesn't support their point of view.How does that make any sense? I myself believe the climate is changing.I also believe mankind has a lot to do with it.Though I remain unable to quantify just how much of this CO2 is man made.I totally agree that we should work towards cleaner energy,and with less CO2 emissions. What I refuse to do,is create lies,or hide information from people who want to make their own informed decisions about how they use energy.To many issues are decided on the basis of political spin,hype,and knee jerk reactions to to little information.If we are expected to support anything,we should hace access to ALL the facts.Not just the Liberal facts.Not just the Conservative facts.And not just Al Gores facts. What the heck is the point of listerning to a person who calls himself a scientist,if the only information he is willing to put forward is the information that supports one side of the issue being debated.Education requires that we have access to all the facts,from both sides.Without that,it's just politics.And trust me,it will be a cold day in July before I let a politician do my thinking for me.ANY politician,from ANY party.I expect honest answers to honest questions. THAT is what I thought we were arguing about. Not climate change itself.The TRUTH.


GUTSHOT!! in Thunder Bay
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What you greenhouse gas folks arent understanding is the fact that any C02 increases FOLLOW temperature increases, not the other way around. Look much closer at any graphs (if you can find unaltered and un-fudged data) and overlay them, and you will see the increased temps caused by solar activity (the real source of any heating/cooling here on earth) cause the C02 counts to rise due to the heating of the earths surface, which in turn releases C02 stored in our soils, swamps, and wetlands. Got it? C02 doesnt cause the temps to rise by itself, the temps cause the levels of C02 to rise!


Mark in Victoria
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I have to say, the industrial players have sure done a good job in placing misinformation in the hands of the public and encouraging this type of conspiracy theory thinking.I mean climate action? Who wants it? Cleaner water, quieter streets, less pollution, food security, long term economic sustainability? Who wants all of that crap? I'll keep my status quo thank you very much.


Ryan
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"Dr M" you've misunderstood Abdussamatov research. He has predicted that we are entering a quieter cycle of the sun; similar to the maunder minimum. As such solar irradiation or output will be reduced and temperatures increases will stop or begin to pull back. There is a lot of discussion among the solar scientific community about this; no consensus either way due to lack of [reliable] long term data. The last solar maximum was 2001. We are well over due for one, but the sun has been incredible quiet. Sun spot activity has restarted from nothing in 2010, but it is a fraction of what would be expected in or entering a maxima.. Check out spaceweather.com for current solar data. Abdussamatov argument is hardly unique or fringe. What is unique is his use of Mars as a comparison body. Where Abdussamatov is more on the fringe, but not alone is his suggestions that warming has been completely [or mostly] due to solar variations and in particular the unusually active sun during the last 50 years. Most solar scientists believe that both green house gases and increases solar irradiation had affects. If another maunder like minima occurs what it means is that global warming will slow or retreat during it. Similar to the slow down that has occurred over the last decade during the ongoing minima. The difference is that it would extend 50 years instead of 5-10. Once it ended global warming would resume depending upon C02 level and solar output. ie solar output at normal levels or 1950-2000 levels. It certainly doesn't mean we would enter a ice age like an on/off switch. In 4 years. If he is right we've been in it or are entering it for the last decade.


Bill in BC
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Wendy, you are correct but not in the way you mean. The ignorant ARE out in full force, unfortunately they are fanatics supporting a questionable hypothesis. BTW, nice to see you aren't blaming this on Harper too.


viral venus
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Whatever your point of view on the "climategate" and climate change debate why is it that we can't seem to grasp that unbridled polution and destruction of the environment should not be excused simply for economic considerations and environmental concerns should not always trump the need for vital economic activity and it's about time we started at least trying to act in a responsible manner that balances these vital but often opposing realities. This should not be as politically charged as it has become. Inflamitory screaming, demands and accusations from both sides does nothing but demonstrate a collective lack of intellect and total absence of common sense.


island girl
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There's a lot of money to be made in the climate change industry and the 'green' industry. Both can further their gains by overstating the situation.


Westerner
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Climate change - Just go to the Columbia Icefields and see the difference from 1970 to present day 2010 - as viewed by myself both times! Receided quite a bit the foot of the Glacier. Stats are one thing but in person over time is another.


Dr M
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Reece: ice core evidence shows that the Antarctic has not been free of ice for over 400,000 years. The map you cite as evidence is considered to be a probable fake. Jay- sunspots can definitely cause changes in the earth's temperature- this is known as the Maunder Minimum effect, and has been studied for years. Although sunspots do correlate with changes in earth's climate, recent warming is not correlated with recent sunspot activity, according to the peope who actually study these things. Brian- simply declaring that your point still stands without explaining why doesn't help much. Yes, there are lots of variable to be taken into account. The people who do that are known as climatologists, and they are the ones giving us the warning. As for the threat to the economies of all industrialized nations, that is a fear-mongering myth. Germany has switched its energy use from fossil fuels towards renewable sources such as wind, solar and biofuels, going from 5% to 15 % within ten years. They have saved money and created jobs doing so. The shift to fossil fuel freedom will not only help the planet, but the economy too. But even if it didn't, we are running out of oil. Desperate attempts, like deep-sea drilling, will only delay the inevitable. We need to make the shift to free ourselves from our addiction, regardless of whether you believe scientists or not. And the longer we wait, the harder it gets, and the more expensive it becomes.


Wendy
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Reading the comments it humors me to see the ignorant are out in full force.


Jim McB
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It is now time to ask the second question, why was methodology and results withheld by the scientists.There is more than credibility at stake here. Many European governments bought this hook line and sinker, and they may have damaged their economies in doing so. A few others became rich overnight while taking the discussion to a "religious" level.The scientists will have to start again to try to gain their credibility back, they have dealt themselves a severe blow as their work will forever be suspect!


Charles Regina
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I think the "Futurama" episode where they accidently travel back in time depicts the depleted ozone perfectly;As soon as they travel through time and approach earth Lila goes;"Hey guys what the heck is that giant blue sphere around the earth"?The earth will clean itself of impurities, and unfortunately, the strongest will survive and the weak shall perish...


Jamie, Ottawa
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@Doug #BC - CTV doesn't like us posting links so if you Google "Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain" you can read it for yourself.


Catwoman 38
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I never really paid attention to Climategate. Some of the science part is interesting, but not enough to convince the public.Although, I think Canada should be looking at investing into Renewable resources, so that way we don't consume so much energy.USA is looking at solar power big time.What is our govt going to do besides sit on their behinds?Have you not noticed in Ontario we have had a few black outs in the past 7 yrs? From using too much energy!The only way to reduce it is by using another source of renewable energy. Even a electrician can tell you that.


Brian Fr Langley
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Dr M, I am quite aware that their are differences between the 2 scientific disiplines mentioned. The comment however remains appropiate. As to the claim of accurate modeling this is in fact NOT correct. Even the climate scientists understand that all potential variables can neither be known or factored in. These variables range from earths magnetic field to sun spots and multitudes of others both known and unknown. All that is actually occuring by this so called scientific consensus, is speculation that all things being equal? Then the warming trend observed is probably anthropomorhic in nature. On this we should put the economies of every industrial country at risk, as well as the food supply for the rest of the world??? This notwithstanding that even if every step advocated is taken natural C02 emissions will almost certainly continue to rise. This issue is not science its politics. Period.


Dr. M
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Portes: is this the guy you mean "CHICAGO – A new "Little Ice Age" could begin in just four years, predicted Habibullo Abdussamatov, the head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia. Abdussamatov was speaking yesterday at the Heartland Institute's Fourth International Conference on Climate Change in Chicago, which began Sunday and ends today. "So if he is right, we should see a drastic drop in global temperature starting next year, culminating in a new ice age within four years. Actually, global warming predicts the same thing for Western Europe if the Greenland ice sheet melts. That wold change the salinity of the Atlantic ocean near Greenland enough to stall the warm-water ocean current conveyor that warms Great Britain and Europe, enough to drop their overall winter temperature, offseting the effect of global warming in that area. But a world-wide ice age is unlikely. But at least that's a real prediction made by a real scientist, one that can be empirically verified or disproven. Against that, there is the overwhelming majority of scientists who disagree. Will you stake your belief that climate change is false on that? Or will you be on this site four years from now basking in the sun still denying climate change? By the way, for those of you who continue to insist that this is just a "natural cycle" (even though you can offer no proof of that)- suppose you were correct, and the earth is currently warming by some natural means. What's the worst thing we could do? How about making the change more extreme by adding more CO2 to the atmosphere? Wouldn't that be the most stupid move we could make? Just asking.


Jay
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For Dr. M.: Just wondering about your thoughts on the current theory of sunspots causing temperature shifts. Back, what was it, 200 or 300 years ago, the world was gripped in that mini-ice age. At that time, there were very few, sunspots on the sun. At the current time, we have what we know are a very large amounts of sunspots on the sun. The theory states that these sunspots directly affect the climate of Earth.Also, it has been proven that yes, CO2 is a green-house causing gas. However, 250 million years ago during the largest mass extinction the Earth had known, it was found that the CO2 initially caused the increased temperatures, but it was actually pockets of methane gas (which is a far more devistating greenhouse gas) in the oceans that caused the insane heat increase which killed 95% of all life on Earth. They've found that methane pockets are starting to erupt all over Earth's oceans. Any thoughts on this?


Reece
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The Piri Reis map of an ice free Antarctica many hundreds of years ago kinda serves as solid evidence against those scientists who insist that what is happening today is not part of any cycle. The entire continent of Antarctica or most was completely bare of ice. Ask any scientist to explain this map and they grow silent....that silent screams out their limited understanding of our planet.


JIm in Ottawa
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John, Halifax, NS: nobody is questioning the benefits of science or the scientific method; what is at issue here is the ethics of the scientists themselves. By deliberately withholding information or "not being open enough," they are in fact attacking the scientific method itself. This is not a right wing/left issue, this is a question of whether or not scientists by not being open enough were deliberately trying to mislead the public. And the implications of being mislead can be disasterous given the amount of public funding that erroneous conclusions can draw.


Wayne
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Oh just more hot air. Oops that would be a pun. Maybe I should just say, "One more liar".


Laureen
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dear johnuninformed???? You are informing yourself through the mass media. I am informing myself through the raw science. You see, these days you have to look at the science for yourself and not be puppets of media fed propaganda. Most people just believe what they are preached instead of using their own brains.


Dr. M
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Against PETA etc.: Your claim that CO2 produced by volcanoes exceeds man-made sources is false, as far as I can tell. According to the National Geophysical Society, human-produced CO2 exceeds volcanic CO2 by 130 times. Can you give me a source for your claim, please? As for the idea that natural sources such as rotting vegetation exceed human sources, that is correct. But natural sources have been in balance for hundreds of thousands of years- as much CO2 was absorbed by growing vegetation as was produced , balancing at about 240 PPm over the last 200,000 years. Man-made CO2 tips that balance, and the excess is absorbing heat re-radiated from the earth, gradual warming the atmosphere and the sea. But that's the point- we are contributing to the amount of CO2 (and methane and water vapour) by a small amount- but that's all it takes. The heat captured by the excess CO2 is dumped into the sea, where it warms the oceans. But the ocean has become more acidic, and can now no longer absorb more CO2. So after a gradual rise in temperature of about 1degree C over 200 years, we are now looking at another 1 degree over 50 years, followed by more increase over the next 50. Changing limate will drastically affect human civilization, which depends very precariously on growing seasons, availability of water, disease vectors etc. We are messing with the natural cycle. This is just not a good idea.


Jeff
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Well, if they had been open, no one would have taken them seriously. The method they use to "correct" their data is so flawed, it truley amounts to fraud.


Portes
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Dr.MPlease read all the research that you can on the Russian scientist that you can,maybe it will open your eyes. I can't remember the mans name but I am sure if you goggle it you will find it


Doug # BC
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LOL.I can hardly keep the tears of laughter off my cheeks.Trying to grasp the lunacy posted by "Jamie.Ottawa", and "John,Halifax,NS".Are you two seriously trying to tell me that Liberals are actually capable of changing their minds when presented with new information?? I can only surmise you don't read other posts,and are able to maintain your position by avoiding any new information at all.You only have to read the regular posts of people like "Wendy",or a poster labeled "Intelligent Liberal" to realize that a whole lot of Liberals never let the facts get in the way of some good spin.Get real.If those posts are examples of "intelligent" Liberals,I can only hope we don't hear from the less "intelligent" ones. I refer to instructions I once received from a judge while I was doing jury duty.ALL people should refrain from becoming so entrenched in their position that they find it impossible to retreat from it if new information comes to light.I see that as sound advice at any time.But that assumes that it's the truth you are seeking.I see little evidence that Liberals give a fat rats behind about the truth.Just the power. In this case,it appears to be the political left that buried the truth.I don't believe that it alters the reality of climate change.But I find it hypocritical to bury the "facts" that don't support your agenda, then accuse those with a different belief of not being able to be open minded enough to analyze the "facts",and come to their own conclusions So,unlike some regular left wing posters,I don't support lying and cheating by ANY side in a debate.Liberals seem OK with lies that support their agenda.THEY LIED.THAT IS WRONG. PERIOD.


Ryan
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There is really NO doubt that CO2 and other greenhouse gases affect global temperatures. There are however HUGE gaps in our understanding on both the size of green house gas effects and the consequences of increased temperature on ecology. Those claiming extinction from climate change are delusional and surprisingly common. The earth has had at least one period within the last 2000 years which was hotter the what is projected in 2100. Greenland wasn't named for its current climate! Outside our immediate time frame there have been many many periods lasting tens of thousands of years with much higher temperates. What concerns me the most about this review is that it didn't touch on attempts to bury opposing views. The climate gate e-mails mention in great detail attempts to quash journals from publishing any research that was skeptical of global warming. Science requires peer review and skepticism. Theories will never be proven true, just not incorrect. If you remove the challenging nature of science you end up with religion. Unfortunately much of the environmental movement has become both a religion and big business. Neither is helpful in determining risks associated with global warming or mitigating them.


Dr. M
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Kevin- your comments about science and scientists are by and large correct- Kuhn talked about this aspect in his famous book on paradigm shift. But it doesn't follow that we can therefore never trust science, particularly when the community as a whole is largely supportive of a particular position- always holding the door open for a new view, of course. As for your comment about cycles- there are three known cycles that affect planetary climate on a long-term scale. They operate over 80,000, 40,000, and 20,000 years cycles (approximaely). They have to do with the earth's inclanation in its titl, it's mean distance from the sun, and cycles of volcanic activity. None of these is currently thought to be producing the 200 year- long spike in temperature of the earth. If there are other cycles, then they have left no trace in the record (which goes back millions of years in ice-core data and seabed sediment data), nor is there any causal mechanism apparent to drive them. CO2 is a smoking gun (literally), and it's almost inexplicable why anyone would reject an obvious mechanism for climate change in favour of one for which there is no proof. And by hte way, climate scientists make about 100,000 dollars a year, and get paid by large universities, usually for teaching and doing research. Their pay doesn';t change depending on their results. As tenured academics, they cannot be fired, so it wouldn't matter what side of this debate they took.


Nanook
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Do you realize how much money "climate experts" make? Do you know how many people "work" in this field? I guess they want to keep working, and making a living off a lie.


Martin
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So, deleting the source information their studies are based on is not fraud/manipulating the data? Though I guess it's hard for this 'independent body' to determine this, considering the source data doesn't exist anymore. Because, well, it was deleted by the same people who explicitly stated they would rather 'destroy the data' than let it be accessed by climate change skeptics.


Kevin in Vancouver
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Science and scientist always need to be held to account and their work as well as themselves need to be questioned. Remember 500 years ago they were all in agreement that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. Many who disagreed, and were correct, had their credibility attacked, were imprisoned, excommunicated and even put to death.More recently a new approach to the treatment of MS has shown that the established medical field has been directing billions of dollars in research money in the wrong area. Yet with overwhelming proof of success these experts still refuse to accept that they have been totally wrong in their science.This is the problem with academia, people build their careers, their reputations based on their research. This makes it very hard for them to accept ideas radically different than their own, it makes them resistent to change even hostile towards it..Do we have a problem with our footprint here on this planet, Yes.Is the planet warming, perhaps.Does the Earth have a cyclical pattern of warming and cooling, absolutly.Do we know for sure what this cycle is,most likely not.


Dr. M
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Oh, and Peter- Al Gore is not a climate change expert. He's a politician who ran for the Presidency of the United States a few years ago against George Bush. But he is not a scientist. He merely reported what he thought scientists were saying, and got it wrong sometimes. Portes- the sun is not moving closer to the earth in the way you suggest. The earth goes around the sun in an elliptical orbit, which brings it closer to the sun on a regular basis (ironically, during the Winter in the Northern hemisphere). It's the tilt of the earth that causes seasons Portes, not the distance from the sun. But if that distance did change, scintists could measure it within metres, and would know about it within a few days. The idea that the sun is somehow responsible for climate change has been investigated, and rejected, by the scientific communi8ty. But I find it interesting that climate change deniers will quote any scientist who they think is offering some evidence for their views, then decry science when it gives them answers they don't like. Do you do the sdame thing with your doctors when they give you advice on your health?


Dr. M
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Two things Brian: cliamatology is not meterology. Predicting long-term effects of increasing CO2 levels is not the same as predicting whether it will be warmer next week, just as no one can tell you whether you will win the next spin of the roulette wheel, but it's a certainty that the house will win enogh money to make a huge profit every year. Short-term events like weather are innately unpredictable, but longer-term ones are driven by physical condition that can be modelled very accurately. For the same reason, it's difficult to say that this week's heat wave is caused by climate change, or is just a random weather event. But if the global temperature increases more than two degrees over the next fifty years, the melting of the polar caps and Greenland ice sheets will be undeniable. As for the warming trend a thousand years ago in Iceland, yes, there are events that can cuase global warming besides CO2. But that doesn't mean that CO2 doesn't cause global warming, does it? But scierntists have investigated those "other causes" and ruled them out. This is not a consequence of volcanic activity, nor is it caused by increased solar activbity. CO2 levels have risen in correlation with increases in temperature, and the CO2 contains trace amounts of C14 consistent with fossil fuel burning. Remember that the people behind the climate change denial argument are the ones responsible for the oil leak in the Gulf. Why do you climate change deniers continue to believe BP, Exxon, Shell and the other sources of this misinformation, when the scintific community of the world is lined up almost unanimously on the side of human-caused climate change?


Against PETA and other nonsense
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@John in Halifax - typical adhominem argumentation from socalled tolerant post-modernists. You cannot debate your position, you simply degrade those who do not agree with you and mock positions other than your own. I have read accounts from "scientists" global, atmospheric and archeaological. Funny thing about "global warming causes" - 99% of those carbon gases contributing to global warming are "natural" through volcanoes and forest fires [did you know that the average volcano erupting for 6weeks spews more "gases" each day than North America does in five years?]. Funny thing about glacial melting - they found "tools and weapons" from ancient civilizations that were around last time the galciers receded. Funny thing about the "above seasonal temperatures" that have been going on for the last decade, as well as the "increase" of drastic weather systems. They are matching similar weather phenomenon that occurred over a century ago. I am not reading skewed positional papers just news reports and articles published by these "scientists" who are trying to argue for "their point of view" and who do not actually read insightfully what they write. SO I ASK the simple question - if this all happened before in centuries past, and it is happening again in our generation - how can you say it is all our fault? SEEMS TO ME it is called a "CYCLE" and we have to endure much of these weather changes like our ancestors.


Adrian from Hamilton
said
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Because the climate varies so much year to year weather researchers used to take 20 year averages. Because the climate change seems to come on so fast less accurate data from much shorter periods is used. Washington DC got record amounts of snow -global warming is over. Ontario has the hottest heat wave in 3 years - global warming is back. All from less than 6 months of data.


Ryan
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I am impressed CTV is allowing comments, CNN has shut them down for this story. I guess public opinion is no longer acceptable in the US


Jamie, Ottawa
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@John, Halifax, NS - You're right about the futility of debating the Conservative types. I read about a study out of UCLA that included how self-identified Conservatives were incapable of revising their opinions when presented with new information that ran counter to their established belief. So, if they've convinced themselves that climate change isn't real and believe the information is flawed, NO AMOUNT of information that challenges their belief will matter. So don't bother even trying. It's a lost cause.


Bill in BC
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When even the University of Victoria's Climate expert (Dr. Weaver) is sueing the activists & wingnuts (not to mention his alleged "collegues") for misrepresenting his research and conclusions, you have to take the climate alarmists with a lot of scepticism.


Exiled Canadian
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Thank you John for demonstrating what the report concluded: Those who support the climate-change theory use personal attacks to discredit the skeptics instead of providing ALL the data so it can be objectively reviewed by their peers.Don't get me wrong, I am completely in favor of cleaner air and water (who isn't???) but there is much more research that needs to be done to see if the hypothesis is valid.


Portes
said
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HA,HA. what a joke. This is the fox guarding the hen house. No one is denying that climate change is happening, but not as these twits are saying. Instead of trying to blame everyone and everything, we should be looking for ways to adapt to the climate change, instead of running around like chickens with our heads cut off. The climate has changed many times oer the years, I have read that a Russian chap said that one of the reasons is that the sun is moving closer to the earth in it's cycle


peter in MB
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@John, Halifax, NS… You are right about the un-informed conservative part. We are all un-informed including yourself. But only the conservatives have the nerve to ask these So-Called (climate experts) like Al Gore some hard questions that they refuse to answer. When people want to deliberately keep you un-informed you need to think for yourself and ask the question, Can you really believe what they have say or is it just a bunch of bull crap. I just want some answers, Not doom and gloom propaganda.


JP
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Double speak at its best. However, if you read the text: "We find that their rigour and honesty as scientists are not in doubt," Russell said. "But we do find that there has been a consistent pattern of failing to display the proper degree of openness." So, they're nice people, and they're guilty of what they were accused of, but because they're nice people, we find they did nothing wrong. And then again: "The messages captured researchers speaking in scathing terms about their critics, discussing ways to stonewall skeptics of man-made climate change, and talking about how to freeze opponents out of peer-reviewed journals." So the emails DID catch them doing these things, which they were always accused of, but again, it's not relevant to the investigation of determining whether or not they are generally nice people. Watch the sheep latching on to this article: "Baaaa, PLEASE tax me more to make me feel safer, Baaaaaa, I'll do anything you say" You've really got to have some deep-seated problems with emotional degeneracy to believe any of this tripe at this point. I mean you've really got to have a major problem with hating yourself.


Peter in MB
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@ John, Halifax, NS “(Ahh fresh comment section, just waiting to be filled up with hateful, un-informed conservative views!)” well John I guess one could say the same thing about Un–educated Liberals who will Blindly follow anything their leaders say like a pack of trained seals because they cant think for themselves.


Linda
said
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Like all women, Mother Nature only lets us think we know what she is doing, when she is doing it, and why she is doing.


Jack in Van
said
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We're already extinct.


John, Halifax, NS
said
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Ahh fresh comment section, just waiting to be filled up with hateful, un-informed conservative views! Let me guess, the earth is 6,000 years old, the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, pencillin kills people, and cancer is a left-wing conspiracy to get right-wingers money. Honestly, debating Conservatives on anything science is like teaching advanced physics to a money. I have a suggest though for you, if science is such 'crap' please PLEASE stop using medication, stop using any technology, just stop doing anything. Go out and hunt and see how long you live without science. Good luck!


Adam
said
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A conviction was not expected anyway because the elite will continue to try to dupe the populations in order to gain the big prize of power and control over peoples. The only problem is, mostly the people are not as stupid as believed.


Brian Fr Langley
said
0 0

An "independant" report clears the scientists? Then goes on to chide them for not sharing information. Science by definition is repeatable experimentation. Not sharing information is politics NOT science. Further while these emails may not have undermined the science behind their work, nothing is said about the so called "hockey stick" graph which has in fact been refuted. Since climate scientists can not even tell me what the weather will be a week from now I remain unconvinced they have an ability to tell me what it will be over the next decade or centuries. One thing we know for 100% certainty. When the Vikings populated Iceland and Greenland in the early part of the second millenium, the temperatures on planet earth were very much warmer than they are today and human C02 emissions were definately NOT the cause.


Duncan Dubious
said
0 0

Like all activists, this group let bias behavior turn their cause murky. These scientists have forever damaged the argument for global warming.


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