Soldiers demoralized by detainee tracking: MacKay

The NDP foreign affairs critic says a report stating that captured Taliban prisoners are unaccounted for puts Canadian soldiers at risk for danger. It also proves that the problem of tracking detainees is not resolved.

CTV's Question Period: Peter Tinsley, fmr. chair

The former chair of the Military Police Complaints Commission, the watchdog probing the detainee issue, was not re-appointed. He says that will create a chill effect and call into question the independence of regulatory agencies.

CTV's Question Period: Afghan committee panel

The Tories say Gen. Natynczyk's admission is misunderstood, because that detainee he mentioned was never processed by Canadians. The opposition says the government can't plead ignorance and needs to be accountable.

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Defence Minister Peter MacKay speaks during a news conference at the Halifax Public Gardens, in Halifax, Monday, Dec. 14, 2009.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Dec. 14 2009 9:47 PM ET

Reports that Canadian officials have lost track of some Taliban insurgents handed over to Afghan authorities are "demoralizing" to Canadian soldiers serving in Afghanistan, Defence Minister Peter MacKay acknowledged on Monday.

Speaking in Halifax where he was making a funding announcement, MacKay said reports that Afghan authorities have not informed Canadian officials about the fate of an unknown number of prisoners underlines the need to keep assisting the Afghan government as it makes improvements to its justice system.

MacKay was responding to questions about a report in the Globe and Mail that says a number of Taliban insurgents captured by Canadians and handed over to Afghanistan's secret police are unaccounted for -- a violation of the detainee transfer agreement between the two countries.

The report quotes Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon as saying that Afghan officials have not kept Canada informed of every detainee's fate.

"The May, 2007, arrangement states that the government of Canada will be notified prior to the release of a Canadian-transferred detainee by Afghan authorities. However, notification has been a challenge," Mr. Cannon said last week in a written answer to questions from a Parliamentary committee investigating the issue of detainee abuse.

The revelation is shocking, given that the Conservative government has for weeks been hailing the 2007 prisoner transfer agreement as a vast improvement over previous pacts.

It requires Afghanistan to notify Canada before it releases or transfers any detainee, or puts a detainee on trial.

MacKay acknowledged that it is "inevitably demoralizing" for soldiers to learn that insurgents, who may have planted explosive devices with the intention of harming coalition troops or attacking civilians, have been released.

Cannon's comments come as Ottawa grapples with the issue of whether prisoners Canadian troops handed over to Afghan authorities were tortured while in the hands of Afghanistan's National Directorate of Security (NDS), and whether Canadian officials knew about it.

Senior diplomat Richard Colvin, who was once Canada's No. 2 official in Afghanistan, told the Commons committee last month that he warned the government in 2006 and 2007 about detainee abuse, but was ignored and told to edit his reports from the field.

In a 2007 report, Colvin alleged Canadian officials defended former Afghan governor Asadullah Khalid, despite allegations of torture levelled against him by detainees.

The report says Khalid could have been removed from power in 2006 if Canadian officials had not been vouching for him.

CTV's South Asia Bureau Chief, Janis Mackey Frayer said prisoners testified that they were tortured by Khalid, with the help of the NDS, in the basement of the governor's home.

"Diplomatic memos are alleging that Canadian officials knew this sort of thing was happening and did nothing to have the governor removed," Mackey Frayer told CTV News Channel in a telephone interview.

"What sources are saying today is that Canadian officials may have felt like they had their hands tied because governor positions are the responsibility of the president, Hamid Karzai, and if there was any delay in having Khalid removed that it was because of Karzai's position."

MacKay said Monday he has not read Colvin's report, but denied its contents, saying Canadian officials raised concerns about Khalid's behaviour with the Afghan government.

MacKay also pointed out that Afghanistan is a sovereign country and the president is responsible for appointing governors.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Brian
said
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Would it really matter if Peter Mackay got replaced?

Observer
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For those jumping all over the comments of "Conservative Supporter", you do realize that those comments are being made tongue-in-cheek, don't you? He/she has posted on several topics, from the point of view of what I imagine he/she thinks is the "stereotypical dumb Conservative". So please don't confuse his/her sarcasm with the opinions of real Conservative Supporters

willowway
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Our brave troops will do pretty much anything we task them to do. And they will do it well. I have not yet met anyone who wouldn�t agree with me on that!The problem is that the majority of Canadians that I know do not believe that our troops should be sacrificing themselves in Afghanistan. That does not mean that these folks do not �support the troops�. It simply means that they think that the troops are wrongly assigned to a mission which has no �military� solution.Bring them home and assign them to homeland security from sea to sea to sea and to eradicating pockets of terrorists that we are currently abiding and watch their morale soar!

Tom Brady
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It's all about that golden boy from Nova Scotia who wants to lead the party and government, What we need is Laurie Hawn type of politician/ex-Military to lead the Defence Dept, similar to what is in US. It does not matter anyways. Always puppet to the US. However, give credit for Chritien for not going to Iraq. Listen, we need to go to UN Missions like Canada has always done. A good reputation. We were never ready in 2006. Laws of Combat done up from NATO were unclear. Afghan is a corrupted country, another Bosnia type of war. We were never ready for this sort of things. Guys train the unexpected and out the door we went. Officers who told commanders we are ready, however, look into the eyes of a combat soldier. It's discussing as our soldiers d4eal with this *&^&^^% over and over. My friends are over there and gets confused when their mission finish. Get them out now.

Jerry in Calgary
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It is absolutely unforgivable of the NDP (Layton) and the Liberals (Ignatiuf) in the manner in which they are brutaly undermining the morale and the safety of our soldiers. The NDP and the Liberals have no sense of patriotism and would do just about anything, simply to gain a political upper hand over this present government. It is bloody shameful misconduct on their part. So what if detainees were mishandled or mistreated by another foreign country during times of war that Canada has no obligation to answer for. I for one don't give a tinker's dam but I do give a dam for our soldiers. Our first duty is to our soldiers who are dying there so that idiots like Ignatiuf and Layton can mouth off in the hopes of doing what??? Bringing down a Conservative government that is under duress, stress and political conspiracy by 2 wonna-be-the government parties. All this betrayal from layton and Ignatiuf while this truly patriotic Conservative governbment is doing all that it can to protect our soldiers. I say why not send those two idiots (Layton & Ignatiuf) over there to do a tour of real "duty" on behalf of our Canada and its soldiers in the hopes that they would be captured by the Taliban. I am sure that after a dose of Taliban "welcoming" as captives...then perhaps these 2 twits would see and understand what war is all about. As a patriotic Canadian, I am completely and totally disgusted with these two men who dare to call themselves Canadians along with our soldiers.

Prof. Pye Chartt
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I agree with "Conservative Supporter." Liberals are merely playing a desperate political game, trying to turn a mole hill of unsubstantiated claims into a scandalous mountain. Along the way, true to their confused, frustrated, and often disingenuous nature, they're trying to paint this as an "issue" having to do with the advocation or condonation of torture by right-wingers. They know that's a bogus argument, but it gives them a much needed boogeyman to chase with their little stick.

Taxpaying Man
said
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It's obvious that our liberal prison system encourages inmates to use the internet to attack the government with all these silly left wing rants. They should be working vs playing on these sites!

LM in AB
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Barb Said:You say to the Cons, Leave the Military out of this?Please explain how you would do that??Try as the Liberals might, It's not possible and they will be the ones paying for it.Do you happen to remember the Forest Green Uniforms the Liberals sent them over there with?Then bowrrowing sand coloured cloth to put on thier uniforms so they weren't big green targets in the sandy coloured terrain.Wake up, Snap out of it.Yeesshhhhh!

Richard L. Provencher
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I can hardly believe how much this issue has occupied our ear and eye space. Tragic. Somehow the media has turned us into readers and listeners of issues which get us twisting in the wind. Remember recently how the H1N1 was going to flatten our population? And the global warming screaming. Ask the western part of Canada if global warming is here. Imagine, -50C in Edmonton, Alberta yesterday. We have been turned into news-panting types salivating over the next "hot" news. Wake up folks and real ALL the facts in order to make an informed opinion. Sad to say, so many are like butterflies in the wind. Do you honestly think that if a prisoner's life was at stake, the Canadian troops would willingly hand them over to their captors? Would you support a special tax to guarantee the Afghan prisoners were protected by building a Canadian prison in Afghanistan? Or would you prefer to have the many Canadian prisoners shipped to Canada, to occupy our existing or newly created prisons here? Please ask yourselves these questions.

Jim McB
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The troops try not to do things improperly as does our government. Both are in the position that they have to take action, while their critics only sit in judgement.What demoralizes the troops more than anything is the constant barage of criticism of their actions by the opposition and the left lib media who are loking for ceap political points or sensational headlines.Oppositions come and go, but the government and the troops will continue to do the best job they can despite these minor annoyances.Morale would increase if there was some opposition policy improvememnts on the table, but that is not going to happen with this crowd, they haven't got the smarts.

The Real Perspective.
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Let me put things more in perspective.These detainees are the ones our Soldiers didn't shoot dead or injure in the field.Yes whether we like it or not our Soldiers are doing what they have been trained to do and as many of our Soldiers did previous to them. It is a war and that is what happens during wars.Reminds me of a saying I heard the other day, If you don't stand behind our Troops. Please feel free to stand in front of them.I and many others are very proud of all our Troops.I hope some of you are still able to sleep tonight after this sinks in.Do we all understand the concept now?????

jesse
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And I do believe Peter MacKay has been the one politican, that I have head anyway, who has alluded to our troops staying in Afghanistan beyond 2011.. Yea, and he cares about them.. He cares about his job, nothing more, nothing less.. And if he has to suck up to the U.S. to keep his job, so be it.

planfez
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Just some points here:1. Should we be surprised that detainees are at least roughed up-NO! we shouldn't2. Is it wrong if they're being tortured? Yes! It's wrong.3. Why does this happen? Because it's a war as the Secretary for DND pointed out this particular case happened in the heat of battle. 4. We can put pressure on the Afghan gov't to abide by an agreement (hopefully they will) but given the reality that has been already pointed out-we're not dealing with a stable, oblique government (Afghan) . To expect the Afghan government to be open and honest is realistically naieve.5. This is clearly a case where everyone is right and, sadly, wrong. Wrong because the Afghan police/army are under paid, under-equipped and rife with corruption and due to the chaotic nature of Aghanistan no surprise that torture is a commonly accepted practice. Wrong because the Canadian govt has been less than honest about the situation. Wrong because the opposition parties are exploiting this for shortsighted gains. 6. Demanding resignation achieves what? A political victory for the opposition but does very little to improve things on the ground in Afghanistan. That is where the focus should be..

Robin
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MacKay needs to stop hiding behind the soldiers, whom he claims to support, and head into the kitchen to face the heat. Faux patriotism and soldier morale are rather lam excuses for not disclosing the unredacted truth to the Canadian public. Kiss your majority good bye, Petey!

Anne B�rub�
said
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Like I said, people in this country must be the less patriotic people in the entire world. They prefer their enemies than their own soldiers. What a pity.

SLAPPY
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From the beginning of this matter the Red Cross has condemned Canada's record keeping on the matter of detainees transfered or not, so if the soldiers on the ground are demoralized over this matter the responsibility lays squarely on the shoulders fo the Government of Canada and it's poor record keeping.

a solider thats been there
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This was such a stupid inquiry and a waste of money. The Canadians handed over a prisoner to the Afghan's and then the Afgan army started to beat the crap out of the prisoner so the Canadian stopped the Afgan's from torturing the prisoner and took the man back into custody to PROTECT him. None of the politicians that caused this issue were there SHUT UP! your doing this for votes. If everyone want to sit back and judge every little comment out of parliment over a stupid incident then sign on the dotted line and go do it yourself.

So What...
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The detainees in question...are these the same people that either killed or maimed civilians and "our" soldiers...who cares, it's their problem...

griffin
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Conservative SupporterSorry, I missed the tongue-in cheek!Ignore my comment.

Fog of Life
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Time for this to leave the headlines.....Public inquiry say what??!! I love the posters who jump all over this saying there has to be an inquiry, are you insane?These soldiers are operating in a theatre of war and you expect things to be as orderly as your tax returns. Seriously....get serious and if you are serious you need to give your head a shake and travel and see the world a little as you have no idea that Canada is not the world.These are my tax dollars also and I think Canadians have been inquired to death and our tax dollars can be better used elsewhere.Some people seem to have this misguided image of Canada in that we are the world's Peacekeepers and we don't get our hands dirty. Canada has never been about peacekeeping and I'll remind all you people who have this ficticious image of Canada that we participated in every world war and almost every smaller war since then except for Iraq. We aren't peacekeepers, we do what we believe is the right thing and that gets messy. We know the Liberal posters will jump on anything to critique the Cons but please get this out of the news and spare my tax dollars....

super soldier reporting
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Yeah, I've been there. Oh, yeah, I can't talk about it because there are traitors everywhere, especially in the Con party. I can tell you: MacKay is an idiot and a traitor.

griffin
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Conservative SupporterYou wrote: "They (Taliban) have no regards for human rights, as all decent people should. So why should we care if they are tortured or not."Do you not see any irony in your statement. Are you declaring yourself an undecent person?Civilized, is a civilzed does, not what it says.

KC
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Oh my god - think of the babies!!! LOL. Reminds me of some over dramatic civilian. As a former soldier, we don't really get caught up in the politics. That wasn't our grade level problems. No, we wouldn't be sitting and sulking wondering if the people back home would or wouldn't hold a ticker tape parade. It's a job for us. Parades and the like are for christmas.

Joe from Canada
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I am soooo glad the present day leftist were not born during world war 2. Those Canadians who would not be executed, would be saluting King Adolph after we would have lost the war for being so weak. Also, during the war, we would have given the Nazi prisoners a room at the Hilton hotel as they feasted on dinners catered by Hy's Restaurant. Lets get real. We are dealing with Bad people who would cut your throat for being a westerner. This is a war and we cant monitor every single terrorist to make sure the afghans are nice to them. This is politics brought by Iggy and his separatist and socialist partners. Let's worry about our troops and not about terrorist.

TO
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The decent people of this country are sick of the right wing fools destroying Canada's reputation and then trying to deflect criticism by dragging down the morale of the soldiers as if the soldiers were responsible for government policy and the failure of the Harper government to track that policy.Deliver us from the evil that is the right wing.

keen observer
said
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Soldiers are demoralized by MacKay shooting his stupid mouth off.Simple enough to defuse the issue, MacKay: release the documents. Let's see who is telling the truth.It won't be backstabber MacKay; just ask David Orchard.

Hindusan
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Who cares if they were demoralized! Canadians are demoralized that their government would break international law and make Canada into a totalitarian dictatorship! NDP-Liberal coalition NOW!

John from B.C.
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Did we all read " Combat Engineer' comments here,a man having been there him self. Sure wish more man and woman and or families being involved, would give comments here. After all it is about a operation , that is affecting their life the most.

Observer
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@John, NS One wonders how you can actually suggest that Canadian soldiers are detaining and transferring women and children over to Afghan authorities, with suspicions of terrorism with a straight face...the very notion is laughable and an insult to the professionalism of our troops...furthermore, implying that Canadian troops are involved in rape and abuse of innocents is beyond ridiculous, it is actually shameful. Typical left-wing reaction, nothing but criticism but no concrete ideas about how to solve the problem!

Roto # 3
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John, NS and the rest: You haven't any clue what's going one over here. Shut up and give the noise a rest. You might be quoting a "military source" but you obviously don't understadn what you've been told..... certainly we shelter and aid a phenomenal number of farmers, children, women and elderly. That doesn't mean they are in custody, the only ones who go into custody are those carryign weapons, fighting for the terrorists, etc - in other words - CRIMINALS. Stop distorting the facts just because you hate the conservatives. I don't care for ANY politician! including you.

Bruno
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"Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels"Right McKay?

Doug
said
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Of course there's no bias in the silly reporting of this old news item. In trying to create an issue, for example, Canadian Press says that Canada could have removed the governor. OK. Now I'm waiting for the CTV hand-wringers to keep up their silly diatribe about that poor victim, Colvin. Don't they know that the governor issue was totally examined and explained by the previous committee witnesses.. Are the Canadian media going to keep their one-sided campaign going until they are totally discredited, or until the Liberal party's fortunes improve?

Sober, Newmarket
said
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Why don't be just bring our men and women back home from Afghanistan? We are sick and tired of shedding blood helping another nation while, at home, we pick up the collateral damage from whining, spoiled leftists who sent them there in the first place.Don't be surprised if Afghanistan returns to Taliban rule and their old, violent ways after we pull out of there anyway.

CJ East
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Conservative Supporter... I guess I need to clarify. The Geneva Convention as I understand it was drawn up with a certain conventional wisdom to protect citizens of nation states in a conventional war, and has not been ratified to reflect certain strategic shifts. First, many of these detainees aren't citizens of Afghanistan, nor are they fighting for freedom. Actually some of them who escape are killed by their fellow insurgents as they are suspected of providing help to ISAF(maybe you should think about that). Second, many of these Afghan security personnel come from what we would consider a rough and uneducated background (it's only withing the last century that us as an educated society eliminated physical abuse towards our prisoners), so it will take time to teach and educate. So, after capture we can either turn these detainees over to a soveriegn nation where there is a chance, in some instances they they may get beat up, or we can turn them over to an entity that isn't fighting to better certain rights and freedoms (even though that process isn't perfect) and may kill them. Which do you recommend? My thought is to continue with the 3D approach with the proper man power and required resources, so in the long term the rights and freedoms (development and diplomacy isn't the same as democracy) of this nations people can be properly realized.

Mike
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MacKay said Monday he has not read Colvin's report, but denied its contents,---------------------------------------------------This is not what I'd expect from a person on top of the job.

John E
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To VG: Since Iraq when the US/UK removed the leader of another sovereign country. Also since we knew he was involved in torture and we had boots on the ground in harms way.

Condoguy
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We as Canadians have a hand in this situation. We seem to hold our politicians to a different standard. We and the press back them into a corner so that if they did make a mistake or an oversight then we do not allow them to admit to making a mistake or missing something. We immediately say they are covering things up or lying. It is sad really.The attacks on Peter MacKay is quite disturbing. Mr. MacKay has worked very hard for the overall well being of not only Atlantic Canadians but for all Canadians. He has done a very good job representing our country abroad.While I do not know what he did or did not know about the situation, please remember that we are taking about a country where we are at war. War is never a good thing and I am sure mistakes are made. There are I imagine hundreds of documents that are sent between too many levels withing the government and military and we cannot expect the Minister to possibly read every one.I guarantee you Mr. MacKay cares about our soldiers and the job they are doing. This is not a reflection on their service, it is an administrative oversight that has been found and now corrected. Let's move on folks. There are more important things to focus on like global warming.

Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
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@Conservative Supporter. Your comment is a right on for a new reformed conservative. All civilized people, please read SC's post. It exemplifies a lack of respect for human life, that only a savage could be enjoy.

Anthony
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Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. - Napoleon BonaparteEither we are in the war to win it or let's pull out, rather then listening to these politically correct idiots. Wars have casualties.

Mark Fort Erie Ontario
said
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This is a non-story - the Canadian military did the right thing. This is politics at the expense of the soldiers. the oposition parties and the media should be assamed of themselves.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said
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@ I Know What You Did Last Summer of 2006, Petey: Thanks for confusing a "story" with the truth. I'm afraid you "murdered" your own point.

Jim Lad
said
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Oddly enough, this is only a story on CTV.I'm about ready to switch you guys off.Was having a great day until I found that you are still spreading Taliban propaganda.

A. Chezzi
said
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Mr McKay is confusing the troops and the government. Soldiers do what the decision makers tell them to do,The problem with detainees isn't a military one. It belongs with the government. and the government has to answer for it. Where is the transparency and accountability promised in the last campaign?

B./Windsor, Ontario
said
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It is shocking that some Canadians are siding with the oppositions to protect the Terrorrists that are planting bumbs to kill Canadian soldiers. In my opinion its up to the Afghanistan to handle their privoners. I wander why the oppositions: NDP's , Liberals and the Bloc are more concerned of the of protection of the Terrorrists then the security of Canadian soldiers. They've been waisting the Parliament time and tax payers money for about a month playing politics with the safety and security of our soldiers. A lot more work would been done instead if there was a majority Conservative Government . I'm sick of the politics games that the opposition are always playing. If they had a real job they wouldn't have time for that.

Jake
said
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In the situation of detainees taken by Canadian forces, there are two solutions:1. We built prisons in Afganistan. thus providing jobs for the people there. The prisons we build shoulld be no less than our mininum security prisons in Canada with tennis court, golf course, swimming pool, gym, etc. After all, we Canadians are civilized, compasionate, democractic to the core.Alternatively, we ship all the detainees to Canada, give them landed immigrant status, complete with welfare money, housing, jobs, etc. This way they won't be killing our soldiers over in Afganistan. They will be so grateful to us, they will become loyal Canadian citizens.Maybe, again, we should open all our confidential files to all the Canadians in Canada so we are transparent. Of course, also transparent to the enemies. The Talebans certainly will love us for the confidential files and the Canadians and all the kind and gentle people here. And if the Talebans happen to kill our soldiers, that is just accidental.

Island Man
said
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Mackay's treading water until Harper shuffles the Cabinet after Christmas...then he's off the hook. Same for Dim JIm the Finance moron.

Rob
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Can you imagine if we had an issue where we needed outside support, and the support/help came to our aid, but starting firing our leaders???Of course we cannot change the way of Afghan thinking overnight, nor should we. Yes add some values, such as respect for women, but we cannot dictate who they hire for Governor of an area...

NS Afghan vet
said
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To "John NS"I lean towards PC way of thinking, and I have been in recent combat in Afghanistan, and I will be again in 2010.If you had any idea how harsh life is in Kandahar, how oppressed the local population is, you would choose your words a little wiser. It is a terrible, vicious, beyond the adverage Canadian's imagination, area. Try to imagine the worst third world place you can think of, now mix in a state of permanent war. Not even a normal war, if such a thing existed, but an insurgent war of terrorism. I have seen close up, of civilians in the double digits, getting blown to pieces, and it never even made the news back here.We are there to try and help the local population. I have met the locals, and will again in less than 2 months. The finest Canadians are representing you, and all Canadians, putting our lives on the line, every second of every day and night we are over there. Please do not spin this into a political game. Please respect and support the Force that represents and supports you.

Agnostic
said
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Paraphrase to: "they're demoralizing our troops". Where oh where have we heard that before.

The Other Lowell in BC
said
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Well one thing for sure. This story isn't going away any time too soon. In fact it seems to be unraveling. Yet to be decided is the degree of incompetence displayed by Harper's ministers in managing the affair. The head in the sand approach seems to be their main course of action. But who would Harper replace Mackay with. Between defense and the environment he has gone through more ministers than Carter has pills. His front bench strength is getting weaker and no one is warming up in bull pen.

Jared Benson
said
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Demoralizing - the reports? or is the incompetence of the Minister and his staff? Maybe if he did his job right there wouldn't be any reports to demoralize our troops....

melissa
said
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Peter Mackay has not read Colvin's report? He says he hasn't read Colvin's report? I rest my case.

Michael
said
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We really should hold the men and women that are risking their lives accountable for this? Let them pay the price for the Politicing going on back in Canada. What a joke, maybe we should send the cowards that are looking for accountability over to Afghanistan (as a soldier) to see if they can do a better job. Maybe the Colvin the coward can join the military and do a better job!

gp
said
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He knows what makes the soldiers feel demoralized, but he didn't know about the detainees being tortured? wow.

Conservative Supporter
said
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I agree with Professor Pye Chartt. We don't need an inquiry to know what is going on in Afghanistan. Our troops are there to spread democracy and respect for human rights. So who cares if some so-called innocent farmers or women are tortured? You can't make an ommlette without breaking a few eggs, and if some innocent people have to die in order for us to restore justice and freedom to the people of Afghanistan, bring it on! Some of them must be Taliban. This is war, and you can't expect our troops to abide by international conventions during a war, even if those agreements demand that Canadian soldiers are responsible for any prisoners in their custody. These Taliban are monsters who are willing to throw acid in the faces of little girls. They have no respect for basic human rights, as all decent people should. So why should we care if they're being tortured or not? And who's to say that they're innocent civilians anyway? Did they get a trial before being tortured? No. So no one can claim that they're innocent, can they? It's only Liberal weenies that care about civil rights, and that undermines our troops. They're not in Afghanistan to support the so called "rights" of people. They're there to win a victory for democracy, no matter what the cost.

Vancouver Island Guy
said
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Peter MacKay has it wrong. Our women and men in the Canadian Armed Forces are doing an exemplary job for us; including their Chief of Defence Staff who admitted to wrong-doing.If only Peter MacKay and our Prime Minister were as honourable and truthful.Too bad Peter MacKay has to hide behind the armour of our armed forces to cover up what has really happened as a result of the Conservative Party's policy in Afghanistan.

CJ East
said
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It is my understanding that the Geneva Convention on torture was designed to protect citizens of nation states in a belief that we live in a humane and educated world that desired to hold a certain level of moral conduct. Afghanistan is a 3D approach. Defence, Diplomacy and Development. For success all three are equally important. Unfortunately as a nation we seem undermanned and don't have the fortitude or guts to get the job done. While I don't condone torture, this is a nation that is trying to develop and stand on its own. It isn't perfect but it will take time (The world as a whole didn't seem too upset that the Saddam hanging was inhumane to Western standards). However wasting resources to protect Nationless terrorists who cut the throats of grandfathers and grandsons, used inhumane IED (which is against the Geneva Convention) that mame and kill civilians and soldiers, spray acid in the faces of school girls and so much more won't solve the problem. Committing ourselves to establish a safe Afghanistan so that they can grow and stand on their own will. It won't be easy, there will be a lot of grey, and it will take quite some time. Focus on solutions, not problems. We know what the problem is, wasting resources on investigating it further rather than investing in the solution will make things worse.

Jeff in MTL
said
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That's right Pete, Soldiers are demoralized by the tracking system. And the Rest of Canadians are demoralized by your partie's crappy politics.

LH
said
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How exactly is the Canadian government supposed to force another sovereign and independent government to fire someone, or force them to tell us information if they don't want to? If we aren't being given the information, how can Canada or its government be blamed for that? How about we stop with the finger pointing between the parties here and instead all of Canada points a collective finger at the real problem, the government and security forces of AFGHANISTAN are not providing the information, are torturing their OWN people and are corrupt. Why do the parties here need to keep acting like children and only doing what is best for themselves instead of for Canada and for that matter, the efforts of all of the soldiers in Afghanistan? It is time for our politicians and those who support them to do what's best for Canada instead of tearing apart each other to pursue their own interests. And let's stop blaming the government for the actions of another sovereign country. Why don't we instead work together to find solutions, or to create new safeguards to try and end the problem instead of using it as a political platform to ruin each other.

doug
said
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Mackay is in way over his head! Our troops and our place in the world order are in jeopardy with a man with his lack of international experience and skills. His strength lies in politics and nothing else. Check with Mr Orchard about this claim.This man is a boy on the world stage.We are not being well served by him.Doug

Combat Engineer
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I have served twice in Afghanistan, and I'm getting ready for round three. I have seen detainees handed over to Afghan National Security Forces "ANSF" in the past, and I have never seen any violations. I am completely sickened by all of the "Bleeding Heart Lefties" out there. What do people expect us to do during a full out offensive IE. Op MEDUSA? When we capture these insurgents, do people expect us to drag them along in the rear in a wagon. Just a reminder folks, these scum bags are actively trying to kill not only soldiers in Afghanistan, but you and your families back in the safety of Canada. Of course we hand them over the ANSF, since the plan is for us to hand over all responsibility to the Afghans so that they can handle their own affairs. And for all of those who are "misinformed", the majority of all insurgents are from outside of Afghanistan, most coming in from Pakistan. Overall I am a little surprised that this has turned into such a big issue. We capture insurgents, we had them over to ANSF, and they end a few end up getting mishandled. When you are dealing with one of the most corrupt countries on the face of the planet, nothing is going to be 100%. For all of the bleeding hearts out there, wait until someone you know has been blown up by one of these insurgents, I'm sure your opinion will change somewhat.

Mac
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good grief the rhetoric - There should be an inquiry - but not a public one because there is stuff there we the public have no business being involved in based on our lack of knowledge /expertise/ understanding etc etc - the "need to know" is not an issue here - Parliament can hold an "in-Camera" hearing so things can be discussed/ divuldged with out putting our allies in harms way as well AND no media sound bits by publicity seeking opposition members who twist things around ! Several times witness' had to ask for clarification on what was being asked because the Member asking thequestion was giving a rant and not a question - Laurie Hawn PS/MP answered the questions extremely well ... but the Oppositoin wont accept them ! well... what do you want - the answers or pontificating !The military are demoralized because of the way this issue is being handled by ALL parties - media included... sorry CTV but there is some responsibility on your part too !This is a war zone - rules - actions solutions are not the same as they would be in other situations and for us to sit back in a warm homes in a nice cozy chair and JUDGE is irresponsible.

willowway
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So a detainee handed over the Afghanis may have ben "tortured". Surely that does not come as a surprise to anyone.If McKay must resign it should be because he was not smart enough to recognize that our troops should have been brought home the moment he took office. Many of us have been saying for years that, in spite of what Hillier was telling us, there is no military solution to the mess in Afghanistan. Lets get out of there. Find some other way to help the Afghanis build a Country to their liking.Just bring our troops home so that they can protect our homeland from sea to sea to sea. That would include eradicating any pockets of terrorism that we are currently abiding.

I Know What You Did Last Summer of 2006, Petey
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@Prof Pye Chartt,"Just a bunch of disconnected and biased theories, postulations, and allegations to keep the political fire burning bright. ...Grab a pack of marshmallows." Kinda like those slasher flicks where the 'wild campfire story' inevitably turns out to be the truth. Guess the nightmare's just beginning for lil' Petey and Stevey.

Lunt
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Opposition parties grasping at straws....hello people....can you spell Taliban or terrorist? Should we care that these people are tortured - no! These people have given up their rights the moment they armed themselves and/or started throwing acid in girls faces who attend school....turf them all.....

Sober, Newmarket
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Everybody's getting tired of the self-mutilating bleeding heart leftist clap-trap about something that an Afghan did to an Afghan sometime in the past of a very dangerous war. If that is all we can complain about, we live in an almost perfect country.We are at peace and enjoy above average economics in Canada with a stable government that we can be very proud of. God bless Stephen Harper and his government.

Albertaboy111
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"My question: Since when did Canada obtain the legal right to remove (or depose!) a governor of another sovereign country?"Thats not what the question should be. We have no right at all to tell them how to do things. The problem is that we actually supported the guy and argued for the Afghans to keep him in his position. Now that is strange indeed.

Albertaboy111
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"The rest of us true Canadians know the very dangerous yet very important job your doing."Don't you dare accuse me of not supporting our troops. I have friends overseas serving right now. How dare you call my support of them and the job they are doing into question. One thing I can tell you for sure tho, is that they are NOT happy that they have been handing over detainees to be tortured for years on orders from the government. Those soldiers all thought the government was monitoring them to make sure the Geneva Convention was followed. The conservatives have alot of explaining to do to our men and women in uniform. They have really let them all down.

LS
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Too many dinosaurs out there who still think that our troops were breaking ANY international law. They were obligated by the Law of Armed Conflict (not the Geneva Convention for those who can't understand), to turn over any captured prisoners to the Afghan government. They were not farmers and children. The problem lies within the Afghan government and nowhere else. This is a complete red-herring and a total waste of our time. Media stop reporting this we really really don't care.

Barb
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Will the Conservative Gov't stop bringing into this discussion our Canadian soldiers - they are doing this to deflect responsibility. No one has been critical of our Canadian soldiers and I think the Conservative Gov't is playing politics at the expense of our soldiers.

ObamaSinLaden
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Peter MucKay should resign for lying to Canadians and for his assault on the wistleblower. He simply cannot be trusted anymore.

Kyle Harms - Kelowna BC
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I cannot believe how much of a partisan mess this has become. First off as a Government All members should take some degree of responsibily, be it because some of the policies were left over from the Liberal Government as the Cons claim or be it because Mackay had some degree of knowledge.Secondly, these are men and women who die for our Country very day. They put their lives on the line so people like you and I can be sitting here typing this very message. We should not ever degrade our troops moral like we have been recently. With all of this recent public outcry it is my fear that our military whom protects our true north strong and free will become demoralized because they don't even know if there own government is backing them or not.1 word - Embarrassing. for everyone involved, and all levels of Government need to step up and accept this, decide what to do and how to proceed and together we must protect the men and women who protect us everyday in battle. God Bless the Canadian Military.www.knowyourvote.ca

conernec Canadian
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Peter,Peter, the liar what a disgrace to his country and how ashamed his father must be

Allan Eizinas
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War is war and stupid is stupid. War is trying to wipe out your enemy and taking minimal casualties in return.Stupid is putting your soldiers into a position where they are ordered to capture �suspected� enemy, turn them over to the Afghans who beat the bejeebers out of these �suspects� and then let these now really, really angry and hurting prisoners loose to either join (or re-join) the Taliban or to lure the Canadian troops into I.E.D�s.Win their hearts and minds indeed.Our Canadian soldiers are fighting a war. Our Canadian politicians are playing at stupid!

KB in Banana Belt
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The only people pointing back to the military are the CONservatives. No one in any of the Opposition parties are pointing fingers at Military personal. It is the CONservative party who are using the Military men and women to protect themselves. What a sham! Stop blaming our Military men and women and face the facts that you were negligent in your duties Mr. MacKay and not our Military.

Allan Eizinas
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Soldiers demoralized by detainee tracking: MacKaySoldiers demoralized by MacKay: Soldiers

dusty - ottawa
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Here we go with all the Liberal sheep and suckups who are never satisfied until every last minute detail is made public. Then the public twists it around to suit their purpose to defend the Liberals who sponsor them. Talk about demoralizing our troups, you dont think it very demoralizing when the Liberals sent our troops in the first place, without ammunition, the wrong colour uniforms for the terrains and insufficient ground vehicle support to protect themselves? We, again had to resort to borrowing from the Americans. This is not Demoralizing? I guess to all the Liberals and their supporters, it's business as usual. DO you Liberals ever try asking how our troops are equipped and if they are receiving proper equipment?? Definately NO!!

Slewhigh Yendick
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It is time for Mckay to resign !!! It is about time the Cons learned from the proffessionals on things like this !! Who remembers the PROMISE of the GST campaign??Shiela Copps resigned over it,, her resignation did not bother her a bit!! Mckay would likely fair even better than Sheila..Go for it Peter,, it is what the Liberals would expect

Pat
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"Adam in Ottawa" .... His comments hit the nail right on the head.

raj
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I don't know what to believe anymore.I do know , the Taliban love this, love it more than we can say.As someone with a son in law over there, I am not happy with anyone, and the soliders are not giving any kudo's to the media or the NDP/Liberal hacks and pundits.The bloc have no room/right to ask questions in the least

Rick in NB, Ste Marie
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@daveyboy, Unlike you and MacKay the Liberals, Bloc. and NDP don't use our troops as a shield to deflect major issues. We have common sense that tells us, if we allow torture, our enemies will revel in the blood guts and gore of western civilians as well as our military.

Prof. Pye Chartt
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Another day...and another story about what MIGHT have happened to some wartime detainees at the hands of their own countrymen. Another day...and still no proof or credible evidence that Canadian Forces, with the knowing support of our government, routinely turned detained Afghans (Taliban) over to Afghan authorities for torture. Just a bunch of disconnected and biased theories, postulations, and allegations to keep the political fire burning bright. ...Grab a pack of marshmallows. The Whacky Jamboree continues.

jay
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Humm? I'm more concerned that my oil patch job is going to be negotiated away this week by some left wing wacko than I am about terrorists being tortured by their own police force in their own country!!

Jack's brain
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Uh huh.Crocodile tears from a snake.

Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
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The transfer agreement that is in place is there to ensure these prisoner's are returned to the Afghan authority's to be dealt within their justice system.We are there to assist them and not to interfere with their internal operation's of government as it seem's the more involved we get the more reluctant they seem to be to participate.There was an article in the new's over the weekend where an Afghan government official stated that they were not sending prisoner's back for incarceration in Kandahr but implied they were being executed as these were not simple farmer's and innocent's as previously implied by Colvin and that there was a possibility they would be right back fighting them the next day. If there are problem's within the Afghan penal system where terrorist's are being freed be it through bribe's etc. then this is a problem that need's to be worked out with the Afghan authority's and not through some politically motivated witch hunt disguised as an inquiry in Ottawa. The effect the media and the opposition politician's are having on our military is demoralizing and counterproductive and only serve's to benefit the people we are there to fight.There is a big problem in Afghanistan with corruption and there will continue to be problem's keeping track of these transfer's as long as this exist's but the detainee agreement was made with the sovereign government in Afghanistan and we are required to work within it's framework. What this show's is that we need to spend more effort on training, mentoring and technical support as obviously the more we expand our involvement the more concern's of this nature arise.There is no reason for a politically motivated expensive public inquiry that should be worked out in Afghanistan not here.

Tony C
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Unfortunately, the current federal government is demoralizing. Fortunately, our troops are doing a fantastic job in spite of the actions of the federal government.

Adam in Ottawa
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I love how the Conservatives are using the "well being" of our troops to try and stifle an inquiry. Harper, MacKay et all want you to believe that anyone who wants an enquiry doesn't support our troops, which is a big steaming pile of BS! Maybe your average blind ranting neo-con believes this but an intelligent person of any political stripe can figure out the real truth after, say 5 seconds of rational thought. It is now painfully obvious that the Conservatives have skeletons in the closet that they don't want brought out. Harper and his minions believe that the public (that's us) have no need or right to know how the government is conducting it's affairs and is hoping this whole thing will fade out over the holidays. Any thinking Canadian, no matter which party they support, deserves to know the truth. And please stop cowering behind our troops to protect your reputations!

willow B
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Why don't the govt just come clean & tell the truth ??? Lets get the air cleared and let the heads roll where they may. It's obvious that the govt are involved in a cover up.

MiggsVer2.0
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Demoralizing our troops? They don't even have anything to do with this issue. It's the policies of our government that need scutinizing, not the job that our troops are doing. And if anyone is demoralizing the troops it's our government giving the troops bogus feedback regarding Canadian citizens and our opinion of the job the troops are doing. They're doing a spectacular job!!! OK!!!

reece
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They wouldn't be so demoralized if you had done the right thing to start with, McKay. Consequences! Consequences! Be a leader and alot less a politician.

Island Man
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MacKay's obvious new spin to stop people asking further questions....The troops should be more concerned about the actions of politicians they are fighting for back here...our democracy is under attack by this lying and deceiving government and it's Mackay and Harper that do the soldiers and injustice.

Crazy Jim
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Afghan police might have possibly almost beat up some Taliban? Good.Give them a right in the nose for me!If only "Torture" in Liberaleese didn�t mean taking away X-Box privileges, one serving limit on Frootloops and no movies after 11.

VG
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I quote: ""Diplomatic memos are alleging that Canadian officials knew this sort of thing was happening and did nothing to have the governor removed," Mackey Frayer told CTV News Channel in a telephone interview." My question: Since when did Canada obtain the legal right to remove (or depose!) a governor of another sovereign country?

daveyboy
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This whole issue re-guarding detainee's is demoralizing to our troops. Unlike the Liberals, Bloc. and NDP Parties who seem to constantly bash the good work our troops are doing. The rest of us true Canadians know the very dangerous yet very important job your doing. So to our troops. Thank you! for helping those freedom loving citizens In Afghanistan. Your doing an excellent Job. Merry Christmas and a safe return.

Ken P.
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Hey Jesse, after the next election Peter MacKay and the Conservatives will still be in power....give it up already !

John, NS
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Ahh, the conservative hacks are sure to be here soon to say the left defends terrorists...In fact, according to military sources 80-85% of those picked up by Canadians in Afghanistan were farmers, children or women.So - don't tell me I support the Taliban, it's you who supports rape and abuse of women and children with our countries hands in the middle of it....It's you who should be ashamed...

Edb(Hamilton)
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Don't worry Mr. MacKay; we�ll soon be tracking them right to Pearson airport where they will no doubt be claiming refugee status. Then of course they can sue the federal government for "wrongful imprisonment".

jesse
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We so need to get to the bottom of this. AND we need to get rid of Peter MacKay..

Herb
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"O what a tangled web we weave when once we practice to deceive"

Danny Dinosaur
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If Mr. McKay actually cared about Canadian soldiers, he would not put them in a position where they were breaking internationally accepted, laws of conduct. At one time, Canada fought for those laws. Now we have a government that is fighting against them. He would also stand up and take responsibility instead of working diligently to discredit others.

John E
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Time for a full blown public inquiry. I for one want to know what in H%&$# Bells is going on. I don't believe MacKay could be so unaware of what was going on. There is no way someone in charge could head so deep in the sand. Talk about turning a blind eye. I just don't buy what MacKay is selling.