Natynczyk makes major reversal on detainee story

Gen. Walter Natynczyk dropped a bombshell on Parliament Hill when he changed his position on Afghan detainees and produced paperwork showing Canadian forces knew prisoners could be tortured.

Power Play: MPs debate the detainee controversy

Liberal MP Bryon Wilfert says Gen. Walter Natynczyk's announcement suggests Conservative ministers can't be believed, but Tory MP Laurie Hawn says the new information further backs their claims.

Power Play: Analysts look at the detainee issue

Mark Sedra, an expert on Afghanistan and Paul Champ, a lawyer for Amnesty International, say Natynczyk's statement raises questions about why information took so long to get up the chain of command.

CTV News Channel: Tom Clark on the impact

The host of CTV's Power Play says Natynczyk's testimony is a game changer and compromises the entire defense of the federal government. He also says it is now more likely that a public inquiry will be launched.

CTV News Channel: Amir Attaran, law professor

A professor with the University of Ottawa gives his thoughts on Natynczyk's statement and says it is very apparent that the federal government has not been telling the truth and it is likely more truths on detainee torture will come to light.

Question period: Liberals blast Tories on detainees

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff calls for Defence Minister Peter MacKay's resignation and a full public inquiry into the handling of detainees.

Question period: NDP MPs question the Tories

NDP Leader Jack Layton says MacKay should take responsibility and resign after months of lying to the House of Commons.

Question period: Bloc MPs on the detainee divide

Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe asks Harper if he will stand behind his defence minister or will he take responsibility and ask him to step down.

CTV News Channel: Prof. David Docherty

A professor of political science at Wilfrid Laurier University says this is not good news for the Conservatives by any stretch but is not enough to bring the government down -- yet.

CTV News Channel: MPs Jack Harris, Paul Dewar

The NDP's defence critic and foreign affairs critic are calling for a public inquiry into the detainee issue and say Natynczyk's testimony completely exonerates Richard Colvin and undermines the credibility of Defence Minister Peter Mackay. They say MacKay should apologize to Colvin and offer his resignation.

CTV News Channel: Liberal's on the detainee issue

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff says it's is time for the federal government to accept a public inquiry because Canadian forces need to have a very clear standards for detainee transfers and it's a matter of the honour of Canada's military.

CTV News Channel: Gar Pardy, former ambassador

A former Canadian ambassador explains why he and other diplomats are upset with the government's treatment of the diplomatic whistle blower on the Afghan detainee transfer scandal.

CTV News Channel: Steven Staples

An Ottawa-based analyst for Rideau Institute discusses the likely outcome after MacKay, O'Connor appear before Commons committee on Wednesday.

CTV News: Roger Smith on the contentious debate

The Opposition has slammed the Conservatives for ignoring alleged detainee torture memos from the International Red Cross back in 2006.

CTV News Channel: Jane Taber, Globe and Mail

While the detainee torture scandal heats up, Jane Taber says the government will most likely continue to deny allegations and refuse to give in to a public inquiry until the House wraps up for Christmas.

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Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk speaks at a news conference at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa Wednesday, Dec. 9, 2009. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Canada did not 'turn a blind eye' to torture: MacKay

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Dec. 9 2009 7:14 PM ET

Canada's top military commander made a stunning turnaround Wednesday, contradicting testimony he made one day earlier about an Afghan detainee who was abused by Afghan police.

The move is akin to a political thundercloud breaking over the Conservative party.

During a hastily-called news conference, Gen. Walter Natynczyk said he received new information Wednesday about an incident in June 2006 when an Afghan detainee was transferred to Afghan police, then beaten.

One day earlier he testified that the man had only been questioned by Canadian troops, not detained.

He corrected that statement on Wednesday, saying the detainee had indeed been captured and held by Canadian troops before they handed him over.

The Canadians later took him back after realizing he was being abused by the Afghans.

The change in stance contradicts the Conservative government's position that there is no evidence Canadian-captured detainees were being abused prior to a new transfer agreement in 2007.

It also contradicts what Natynczyk has been saying since May 2007 about the incident.

Natynczyk said he received the field report on the actual incident only Wednesday and decided to hold a news conference as soon as the information was in his possession, in order to correct his earlier statements.

"Yesterday, just like in May '07, I provided the best information that was available to me," he told reporters. "And the moment I saw this report this morning, I realized it was wrong, or the information I provided yesterday was incorrect, and I'm responsible for that."

Natynczyk said he will be looking into why it took so long before the correct information arrived on his desk.

Government responds to critics

In question period Wednesday, Defence Minister Peter MacKay was barraged with calls from the opposition to resign following Natynczyk's revelation contradicting MacKay's previous claim that there was no evidence of abuse of Canadian-captured detainees following the 2007 transfer agreement.

"The prime minister and the defence minister can't spin their way out of this one," NDP leader Jack Layton said. "The chief of the defence staff just contradicted everything they were saying in this House time and time again."

"The Minister claimed there was no proof of abuse -- he was wrong, and he should take responsibility and resign," Layton added. "And if not, the prime minister should demand it today."

In his defence, MacKay said he only became aware of Natynczyk's new testimony Wednesday morning after speaking with the general, adding, "He immediately went on the record to correct the record."

"He did the honourable thing. I accept what he said today as the truth," said MacKay, before he appeared at a Commons committee examining the issue.

Speaking in French, Prime Minister Stephen Harper went on the offensive, accusing the opposition of lacking support for Canadian troops.

"It's the opposition who is accusing our soldiers of committing war crimes -- not this government," he said. "This government has defended, in all cases, our Canadian soldiers' actions."

In response, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff accused the Conservatives of avoiding the main issue.

"General Natynczyk did the right thing. Our soldiers on the ground did the right thing. The issue is whether the government -- the government -- did the right thing," he said.

The issue has been on top of the agenda in Ottawa and in question period in the House of Commons since diplomat Richard Colvin went public with allegations about torture.

Colvin claims to have issued multiple warnings to the government in 2006 about possible prisoner torture and abuse at the hands of Afghan captors -- and says little or nothing was done about it.

The Conservative government quickly slammed the diplomat, dismissing his claims and pointing to a number of top military officers who disagreed with the diplomat's allegations.

On Wednesday, Ignatieff repeated opposition demands for a public inquiry into the issue. So far the Conservatives have rejected the possibility of an inquiry.

"Canada is proud of its human rights record. We're proud of our Geneva Conventions record. We're proud of our forces. But we need a judge to say 'okay, let's look at the whole track record, the whole period, and make sure we get this right,' because the honour of our country, the honour of armed forces is at stake," Ignatieff said.

"It's time to stop this nonsense and get a judge to sort it out."

The NDP also held a news conference immediately following Natynczyk's statement. NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said the top soldier has "fully exonerated" Colvin with his recent comments, and that the Conservative government's position on the matter is now reduced "to shreds."

Comments are now closed for this story

Bo in BC
said
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WOW, 1 taliban got the crap beat out of him. So what. Tell his to the girls sprayed with acid, the thousands of deaths killed by the Talibans. These terrorists are not fighting under any flag. Adios Geneva convention. Mr. Dosanijh, Dewar, Leblanc and the Iggy clan can always march in front of our troups next time we go on patrol. Talibans forfitted all their rights when they attacked unarmed civilians.

Norman
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In Canada Parliament usually leaves the military holding the bag. Today Natcynzki reversed the tables by recanting his story. As always general staff doesn't knows what's happening in the trenches.The first victim of war is truth. This Parliament's opposition is rabidly looking for scape goats. If we are applying the Geneva Convention to the letter of the law notice that "suspects" are being handcuffed on one of the videos. Those strips are purchased by the Canadian taxpayer. From my days in the army we were taught that tieing prisoners was a violation of the Geneva Convention. Mind you this is mild compared to what Iggy was condoning while professing at Harvard.Iggy, Duceppe and Layton know a better wayForgive the Afghans for they not what they do. Apologize to the Taliban pay them millions and stop whining when they kill our boys with IEDs. They also insist that Harper stops covering up the criminal behaviour of our troops.Nuts.

Reinier Kanis
said
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The only thing more amazing than catching a government in a lie, is its supporters jumping up and down saying the election is over and we won. No wonder more and more people do not vote! Every time the public votes, it finds out later they were being lied too.

Richard in Ontario
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All this old news trumped up by the Libs and NDP. Enough already, time for these two parties to get onto something else. As an old friend of mine used to say "Turn the record over, we've heard enough of this side" When I see the Libs or NDP numers go up in the polls, then I might believe that they're onto something that is of interest to the Canadian Public. BTW did you all see that Alphonso Gagliano's mate was found to have his hand in the cookie jar. That's if you want to go back into the past.

david -ottawa
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Its now on the world news. What a wonderful government Canada has. It worked to scuttle our legal requirements under kyoto, letting down the world. It broke its own law about when elections should be held. It used taxpayer money to promote its own party. and now there IS credible evidence of abuse, and the government turned a blind eye and violated international law.The government singlehandedly has destroyed Canadas credibility as a respectible country.

charlie
said
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Iggy and Jack - if you are so concerned over this matter, set up a vote and bring down the Government. Let the voters decide how important an issue this alleged mistreatment of the Taliban prisoners is. Put up or shut up.

John Young
said
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Well the Afgan police apparently tortured there detainees after being handed over to them from Canadiens. Canada did not torture them. We do not torture in Canada. I dont understand why it is causing so much controversy and wasting so much of our money. Why dont we just leave their country and they can clense themselves.

Tom Bell
said
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It's hard to believe this is dominating our headlines for no other purpose than to gain policitcal advantage by the opposition. Are they aware we are involved in a very dirty war over there? Perhaps I would have more respect for them if they focused their concerns on our returing injured soldiers, and the families of those who have lost loved ones.

Wayne in HRM
said
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Peter McKay is a liar..Steven Harper is a liar..Hillier is a liar...Cannon is a liar..the diplomats are not liars..the IRC are not liars..pretty simple conclusion to draw here.

John from Saskatoon
said
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Who cares what happened 3,4,or 5 years ago. The fact is the govt. signed new prisoner transfer agreements when they found stuff out. Does it really matter if they say they didn't know. They obviously moved to correct a situation.

simon
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QUOTE "There has never been a single, solitary, proven allegation of abuse of a detainee, a Taliban prisoner, transferred by Canadian Forces." MacKay said Dec. 2 in the House of Commons. UNQUOTE. General Natynczyck today said something quite different. Who is speaking the TRUTH ? Obviously there has been some blatant attempt at COVER-UP !

tdgladwin
said
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The reason for which there has to be a board inquiry into this whole affair is to see which members of the government at the time know what had happened and why they decide to hide the report of it and when it had become a news story in the Globe why the government still tried to cover up what they knew and tried to make the rest of Canada believe that it was this new government that is trying to protect themselves and in fact trying to force the resignation of the minister of defense over something of which he had nothing to do with.One would then have to ask who leaked the story to the press and continue to feed the press with misleading info into the issue to some way influence everyone into believing that it is the military personnel that are in some way also trying to cover up when this new document now shows this to in fact be the furthest from the truth and actually shows that our members of the military that were directly involved did everything possible to make sure that there was no way of which the ASF could assault the prisoner without anyone finding out and in fact when they seen that he had been beaten they removed the prisoner from their possession and took control of the prisoner themselves. The report of which they had forwarded to the Government at the time was obviously buried for reasons of which we will never fully know without a board of inquiry.

c
said
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"The Canadians later took him back after realizing he was being abused by the Afghans."This statement should be clear as day that our troops are doing everything tp avoid potential abuse. I wonder if any Lib or even media member gets that this supports what the government is saying.

M in Ottawa
said
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Nice inflamatory headline. He clarified his previous comments with new information. Not exactly a major reversal.

Don
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I am so sick and tired of the liberals and ndp trying to make hay out of this situation. Do they not realize that most Canadians could care less if detainees who were trying to kill our soldiers are tortured by their own people.

Tim
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Tom: "The Taliban was the legitimate government of the time. Where were you?"The Taliban were not the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time. They were the defacto government, but that does not make legitimate. I don't recall the Taliban being chosen as the government by the Afghan people, do you? Just because the Taliban won the civil war in Afghnistan does not automatically make them a legitimate government.

pdm
said
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Well, Canadians engaged in a debate that is not about Tiger Woods, Oprah Winfrey or Barack Obama! Finally, regardless of any position or opinion we are dealing with our own issues! Clearly the Conservatives have issues with RCMP using tasers, diplomats not being listened to and torture happening and they need to respond with correct details. It never does any good when a leader stops communication and PM Harper just needs to lossen up and let ministers and MP's speak. We'll all be better off. The LIberals will get timely and correct info and the country can move on to more important matters.I expect better from the Prime Mnister and better from the opposition.

Jamie D
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I could care less if a soldier is brave, stupid, or a coward. No opinion on it. I do have a problem with my government leaders lying to the public. I send my tax money to these guys trusting them to spend it wiseley. When I hear them lying on such a trivial issue, it makes me not want to send my tax money to Ottawa. So tell me U purile CONS, how exactly do soldiers foot blame for this? They don't, they are no-minds that do what we tell them to do. So that means that the chain of command ending in the voting public has the speak up in protest. As well please inform me how 23 ex ambassadors become non-credible because they aren't spewing the same line as the PMO. Please tell me how the military general became non-credible. Tell me how I am supposed to support the troops by allowing them to do something that will create a vengful atmosphere in the Afghan people. If anything torturing or allowing someone to be tortured opens the door for retribution. Is this what the Conservatives want for their prescious gun carriers? To make them do things that can be reflected horribly back on them? Nice support you weenies are. Get off the military and Justice platform, and do some real work for canada.

Bill in BC
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Len in Ontario: I don't know where you are getting your info but let me reiterate what I said earlier: "I would like to see an inquiry. My questions to the inquiry are: 1. Mr. Colvin, since your allegations are not credible, why did you bring them forward? Who requested this of you and what were you promised? 2. To the "former Ambassadors": Gentlemen, having reviewed who you are and the fact that you are all, without exception, appointed by former Liberal governments, Is this a demonstration of your loyalty to the Liberal Party? Have you been promised anythign for doing so? Or is this your attempt to "repay" the party for your appointments? 3. Does ANYONE have ANY evidence to present in this matter? (Innuendo, supposition, rumour, gossip, blind thoughts, fabrications, etc do not constitute evidence.)" This clearly does not have anything to do with your baseless rant. Thanks for coming out and wasting electrons.

Hope
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Torture was well hidden in the early stages of the war as we all should well know. The US even paid Afghans to turn over anyone for a price. Some were so poor they went for it. Many who were accused in so to speak were innocent. Similar to any good witch hunt of the olden days.Some folks will do anything for money,. Who would take a few thousand to turn in someone you frankly just don't like? Anyone can be bought or sold for the right price. Just be thankful you still have your freedom of speech to talk about it. That is next on Harper's list in case anyone has missed it.

PB_Toronto
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Im baffled by all the nonsense surrounding this. To summarize, Canadian soldier do their job, they discover the abuse of a detainee and as a result remove him from the situation. Whats the problem..move on!They should be congratulated not crucified...its getting scary the number of witch hunts we continue to undertake. Im beginning to question which side people are on.I guess now if you serve your Country in any aspect, RCMP, Military, etc..., you may as well "tap out" because it appears you are guilty of every attrocity our "own" people can manufacture..unbelievable!

Child Please
said
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I thnk the only way that this can be corrected and be accepted by the Liberals and New Democrats is to invite the Taliban to live in our far north, declare the Conservative Party a Terrorist Organization and triple the taxes of every non-union cardcarrying Canadian. Oh, and provide free daycare and replace our currency with carbon-dollars featuring the face of David Suzuki.

M M B Ont
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If Iggy wants any inquiry into this issue, then let he and Jackie boy pay for it... not the taxpayers of Canada. I am so sick of the Liberals and NDP. The Liberals were in power sending our troops to Afghanistan unprepared and without a plan. As soon as the Conservatives get into power, the Liberals jump on the bandwagon to try and destroy the gov't, and make Canada look like criminals all because they want to be in power again. They will do anything to make the Harper gov't look corrupt so they can call an election to overthrow Harper. Canadians are smarter that Iggy, Rae or Jack think we are and we are not buying into their crap. These guys are more worried about the Afghan terrorists than they are about the men , women and children in Canada . People are unemployed in Canada, children live in poverty and we are taxed taxed taxed but do they care about a Canadian citizen?? NO. Do they care about our men and women who are dying in another country by IED's planted by terrorist of that country?? NO. They are concerned only that the terrorist who is captured not get tortured by their own gov't. Then Iggy and Rae, bring them to YOUR homes so you can guarantee they will not be tortured for killing our soldiers... but not at the taxpayers expense!It is time this issue was laid to rest .

Tom
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Carder Gropp...

The Taliban was the legitimate government of the time. Where were you? Currently of course, they are not.

Mountain Guy
said
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The fact that the Taliban engages in barbaric practices does not justify Canadians doing likewise. Either we stand for something better or we shouldn't be there.

mac
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this is NOT an Conservative-Liberal etc issue...I am disgusted at the behaviour of our MPs in and outside the House - in particular Mr. Dosanijh, Dewar, Leblanc and the BQ MPs... Perhaps these MPs should take a walk on the streets of Afghanistan and stop comparing our standards as ones of theirs.... yes we can scream loud and clear that what we see is unacceptable ... what we CANNOT do is blatantly interfere.. Granted we cannot cover-up or ignore in any circumstance... but if there is an issue of credibility it is these MPs grandstanding, throwing out unsubstantiated allegations and looking for their 15 second soundbite on the backs of others! -- Maybe we could use the AdScam money to pay for the inquiry !

D. in Hfx.
said
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Please move on.....our soldiers (and we their families) sacrifice everyday in a backwards country full of not Muslim extremists but rather druglord criminals. YES, things happen, they did during all wars....our guys and gals are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Please Mr. Iggy my vote will not be given based on this foolishness, it will be based on a better candidate than you, Jack and Mr. Harper!! Thank you to our soldiers for helping out and God Bless you during this Christmas season!!

LH
said
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Our politicians have become jokes. If the conservative government was not given the correct information, as this guy is now saying he just received it wednesday, then how can they be blamed for not reacting to it? And the calls for a public inquiry into everything is getting irritating, this is an expensive process paid for by the taxpayer. How about all of the political children agree instead to cooperate for the good of CANADA instead of the grandstanding for the good of their party at election time? And didn't the article say that we took back the detainee when we found out he was being tortured? Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that the right reaction? These people were not tortured by Canadian troops, they were tortured by Afghanistans, meaning, by their own people. I believe the mandate is to transfer over everything to the Afghanistan's, we did that, and reversed it when we found out there was torture, what more are we expected to do? As long as Canada didn't directly participate...how can we be blamed for it? We reacted when we could, shouldn't that be the point instead of this constant finger-pointing, we are all Canadians, let's start acting like it instead of jockeying for position.

Angry Dude
said
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If Natynczyk didn't know until today, how does anyone expect that MacKay would know? This is completely irrational.

Patricia
said
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Our international reputation has been thoroughly shredded already no matter what the outcome of this travesty is. And I truly believe that the hearts and minds of Canadians have hardened as a way of approaching the world and the people in it. And my proof is the fact that so many Canadians support the Harper government which is mean and uncaring about life, civility and truth. Their only goal is to get a majority and nothing or no one matters except those who can get them to majority status. Sorry folks but what this country has become is very worrisome to me. Not the Canada that I used to know.

John E
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I believe that in the minds of most Canadians this issue has now transcended party lines. Most Conservative, Liberal, NDP and the other party faithfuls really do want an inquiry on this issue. Yes there are still diehard Conservatives and Liberals who are quick out of the gate to support their party whatever;. However, Canadians believe strong in human rights ans decency and they want to get to the bottom of this issue. If for no other reason than to feel right that we as a nation were not afraid to look at our conduct and do the right thing. My hat is off the Gen Natynczyk for having the guts to say " The information I gave you yesterday was incorrect, here's the truth." Bravo Zulu, to an honest man.

ron in
said
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There sure are a lot more people saying 'I'm not a conservative' these days.

Guess Canada's Amateur Government just aren't inspiring the voters; either that, or they are that much of an embarrassment...to conservatives.

Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
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When I see the determination at which the liberal's are pursuing this detainee concern it make's me wonder if at a time of war we should be so highly critical of our action's in Afghanistan.This is a sovereign country that wishes to try and prosecute those responsible for the atrocities that have been commited on their population and we are there to help them with this task.These are a people who have lived through generation's of violence that was considered the norm and we somehow feel that we need to judge their action's based on our moral standard's.I feel we need to take a step back and ask ourselve's what we hope to accomplish with all this navel gazing and self incrimination and as a nation focus our effort's on the task at hand which is to not only provide security and mentoring to a fledgling country but to provide them with the education to bring them into the 21st century.Mistake's happen in a time of conflict and what I have read there has been a lot of confusion and unnecessary fingerpointing that can only exacerbate an already difficult situation.Decision's were made kind of on the fly as issue's arose and of course there may have been those who fell through the crack's.We are training people and trying to instil in them our value system and all these people have known is fear and retribution,of course there may be victim's.As far as I am concerned the opposition need's to stop this attack on our effort's in Afghanistan and look to the greater good because we will only succeed in demoralizing our troop's in an already tenuous situation and Canadian's as a whole will lose faith in this mission and the Taliban will win.All will be for not.

Henry Wysmulek
said
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That's all this liberal drummed up histeria can produce? One guy who was hit a few times with some shoes and our troops immediatly put a stop to it!So were is all this evidence of torture?If there is to be an inquiry, then it should start at day one when the liberals sent us there!

Brian the Cynic
said
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The countdown for some conservative wingnut to suggest that General Natynczyk is a Liberal has just started: 10, 9. 8, 7....

Kirk McCallum
said
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Does this situation really surprise anyone???? Stop talking and take action. Stephen Harper, our esteemed Prime Minister, no longer has G.W. Bush to protect him from these charges. Look to Guantanamo Bay, look to the atrocities around our world as I write this. We, as a nation, detest torture of anyone or anything but being human and a politician to boot, Stephen Harper and his cronies just looked the other way and now are doing their very best to back paddle though their sea of lies.

Georgetown, On

MARG MM
said
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If a public inquiry is called, let's hope that it goes back to the time that the Liberals were in power, and get that truth also, I'm sure that this didn't just start happening under a Conservative Government. In fact when they did realize what was going on, the policies were changed. This Liberal witch hunt might just come back to bite them, providing all the information comes out about when they were in power as well. Can't wait for all the "thumbs down"!

Lloyd MacIlquham
said
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Harper and MacKay have a self-image of being warriors. However, the hallmark of a warrior is honesty, integrity and honour. MacKay the way of the warrior would be to stand in front of the Commons Committee today and do the honourable thing - "seppuku " the modern figurative meaning being "spill you guts and resign". Take responsibility for your actions. Be a real warrior.If anyone wants to see what a true warrior handles themselves take a look at what Gen. Walter Natynczyk did today. He stood up and explained for all Canadians to hear that he had said something that wasn't true yesterday - vis.: the Afghan passed to Afghan authorities and mistreated (e.g. torture) had not been detained and that he learned last night that that wasn't true. Natynczyk did the honourable thing, given the context.MacKay is obviously going to say that he was not aware of any Afghan detainees transferred to Afghan authorities and has said there was no evidence of such.What MacKay fails to point out that it was his and O'Connor's and Harper 's and all the Con government's job to investigate and determine that no such thing was, in fact, occurring and ensure that no such thing would occur. This is especially true when Harper decided to up the activities of our troops in Afghanistan to out and out combat in 2006.Harper has been going around the world lately wrapping himself in the Canadian flag, but achieving only to sully it (Gar Pardy, retired Canadian diplomat speaking on: active diplomats may not be wiling to stand up to Harper and MacKay after seeing the insult as and character assassination Colvin suffered and in the Canadian media where he couldn't defend his honour).

Jim in Ontario
said
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Talk about torture! All this focus on what happened to a few people caught shooting, bombing and killing our soldiers is agonizing. We had agreed to turn the criminals over to Afganistan, who treated them according to Afgan customs. I don't care one bit what Afgan authorities did to them, and I would be the last to claim moral superiority over the Afgans. Their country, their police, their criminals, their laws. I doubt if all the non-combatants killed by Taliban bombs care very much either. This is war, folks, not some kind of game with rules and umpires!!! Let's focus on what we can and should do for the families of Canadians killed in the war.

Jared in Calgary
said
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Why does anyone care about these terrorists 'right's, give them the beatings they deserve

Big Mike
said
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The bleeding heart Liberals and left wing nuts in Canada just keep wasting our time and money, time after time after time after time. We should turn all of YOU over to the Afghan authorities. Please kiss my Western butt!

Ivan
said
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Wow - Jim Lad - you're saying that because the Conservatives are leading in opinion polls, their actions shouldn't be questioned? Scary

Hagios ~ National Capital
said
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"....Colvin who worked under the Liberals"Thanks, that is ALL I need to know about this foolish political bru ha ha."Another lump of coal for another liberal, Santa".

Steve
said
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Seriously, come on, seriously. Is this the biggest issue facing Canadians today. The country must be on the right path if the biggest issue for our government is something that happened under a UN mandated mission four years ago in a foreign country. Nice to see my tax dollars hard at work.

Jack
said
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Who cares if it was Liberal or Conservative. Lets have an inquiry sort out how this went wrong and put the proper safeguards in place to avoid it in the future. So all you polorized political contributors, please stand down and be part of the solution

Ray
said
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Ready, Set, Fire said "It's a totally oxymoronic view to think a war should be fought with a rule book. " >> As a Canadian I believe in the processes of the law. These people are clearly referred to as suspects. They haven't been judged in a court of law yet. As a Canadian I want my soldiers to apprehend the suspect, and ensure that this emerging new Afghanistan treats the suspect humanely and fairly under Afghani law. By not lowering myself to their level of lawlessness I'm not failing our soldiers, I'm reinforcing the ideals that put them there in the first place.

Len in Ontario
said
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To Bill in BC.Seems strange that Bill Clinton was impeached and only over sex and the fact that he lied. Now Harper and cohorts can lie all they want and get away with it. Bill, your ideas are washed up. Harper and cohorts lie, bully, and do anything to stay in power. Liberals are not saints but they are only doing what Harper and company are very adept at - cutting down the opposition.

Danny Dinosaur
said
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Now would the time to discredit Mr. Natyncyk. That is the pattern and we should all be wondering if this poorly informed and incompetent man should be allowed to run the forces. Surely the government can find some dirt on him. We are all waiting. Show us your leadership on this Mr. Harper!!! Help us Canadians abandon more of our values.

The Taliban Agenda.
said
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So when did Stephen Harper and Peter Mackay arrest and detain this prisoner? The Libs make it sound like there involved in every arrest personally?K eep going Iggy this will blow up in your face as you are now calling our top Armed Forces Generals Liars and will have a trickle down to all our Soldiers. This will not sit well with Canadians.Do you guys think it bothers most Canadians that these thugs are getting roughed up a bit for potentialy shooting at our Sons and Daughters.Just pretend for a minute that it is actually your Son or Daughter. Ya I thought you'd see it differently now.That's just how things roll in that part of the world and is the risk of being caught and the people know it.Now please stop moving the Taliban propaganda agenda along.By the way Iggy approves of torture don't you know?Yeessshhhhh!!

Paul Chilliwack
said
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OK am I the only one who realizes that these so called prisoners fight in civilian clothes and kill our young men and women.Who cares what happens to them during interrogation, they do not care what happens to us when they blow us up.

C-Flo
said
0 0

No one cares! No one wants a public inquiry except for sanctimonious busy bodies with no life. I do not care at all about what happened to a handful of Afghans suspected of being in the Taliban. Canadians didn't torture anybody. If they heard about it they took him back. Harper wasn't sitting in his office giving orders to make sure people were being tortured. Therefore, since my last 3 sentences are correct and not even disputed, there is nothing for the opposition parties to get excited about. So the only reason that they are pretending this is a big deal is because they think voters are stupid and will somehow blame the Conservative party for this. What a joke. Keep insulting our intelligence Mike and Jack, see where it gets you.

LS
said
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Appalling ignorance that so many people can't read or understand. Clearly states in the article that when Canadian troops found out they took the detainee back. Understandable how long it takes to get the final report to CDS, look how long our own stupid inquiries take to get nowhere. And Mr. Iggy...Geneva Convention? Maybe you better be briefed that the Taliban fighters are not actually covered by the Geneva Convention.This is a wasted smear campaign. This is a war, mistakes happen, changes have been made. Don't spill tears over terrorists. It's done gone and over with. Don't waste my money on an Inquiry.

mike campbell
said
0 0

so this man was a POW and our troops turned him over as per the lib agreement that had been inplace for 4yrs why are we not asking the ? of the former liberal gov as to there part in this so called crime our troops took control of this person sa soon as they saw what was going on and it should be noted that at that time the cons were just geting there feet wet and trying to fix so much lib crap they were strechted thin but our troops stepped up and DID THERE JOB as to who new what when the libs had this for 4yrs and did NOTHINGthis was not new in 2006 it was alwasy there so lets clean out the closet it was the cons that fixed this 18 mths in not the lib who held this file for 5 yrs

J Peterson
said
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We did NOT torture these prisoners. The legitimate and corrupt Afghanistan government did. And after all these years in Afghanistan, the Afghanistan government is still corrupt.Making an issue out of this is bull!

Mike
said
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Wow ....sounds like a number of nervous Conservative supporters on this message board.Remember when Stephen Harper respected whistle blowing. It's funny how that has changed.This is the start of the end of the Harper years.

Afghan Vet
said
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It"s a sad day for Canada. We worry more about prisoners who have fought against and have killed and maimed so many of our fine soldiers. I am appalled. The Opposition should concentrate on what is really important our own country, people and the recession. Not a bunch of terrorists. Taliban Jack, Iggy and Gilles, get the hint.

chrlie
said
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When an election comes, I hope that Mr. Layton and Mr. Ignatieff will take great pains to remind the voters of their support of human rights in the matter of the Taliban detainees. It is important that voters understand that these leaders were true to their principles and exposed the sins of the Government and the Canadian Forces. I am sure that all this will strike a resounding note of sympathy with the voters, who, rightfully, are very concerned that any Taliban (you know the throwers of acid in the face of school childen folks) be subject to anything short of Club Med treatment while being questionned - or, just perhaps, they will keep quiet, very quiet, as they had wrung the fruit dry with their phony calls for inquiries, supported by partisan supporters, and have moved on to the next crisis - trying to divert attention from anything good the Government is doing. What some will do in their pursuit of power is disgusting. For shame!

Ready, Set, Fire
said
0 0

It's a totally oxymoronic view to think a war should be fought with a rule book. Some guy cleverly disquised as a rock or a tree blows up my jeep with his roadside bomb. I should get up, curtsey, greet him with the Kings English and then bow to the east? Where does let's fight clean and fair and fire 2 warning shots over his head come into this? Is it war or are we engaged in school yard brawling?

Albertaboy111
said
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He went over the documents and realised he made a mistake. He then confessed to that error immediatly regardless of the consequences. You have my respect sir. I wish more MPs in this country had the morals and value of truth and justice you have just displayed.

Jack
said
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Whoops....

Paul deTO
said
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I have said from Jan. 23/09 to now that this is the worst government Canada has had since 1945. Its continued existence is proving it out!

Jim Lad
said
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Natynczyk says he didn't know until today. So how in the heck is anyone up the chain supposed to know? I am so sick of this and so apparently is the Canadian public. Check out Angus Reid. Conservatives 42%, Liberals 22%, NDP 18%.Not really working for the opposition. Is it now?

Kevin in Alberta
said
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Just another waste of time and money, and another pro liberal story for our liberal media.Support our Troops not the Terrorists.

Zircon
said
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Not sure I see the problem. He said clearly that new information had come to light. How does that create a 'thunderstorm' over either this man and his command or the Conservative government? It would be the same if there were Liberal government in place. We should take them at their word, unless there is evidence that we should do otherwise.Really, when will people in this country start being critical in their thinking and drop the partisanship?

Lorne
said
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To those people who feel our military should remain in Afghanistan - Why? The soldiers involved in this detention will likely receive a reprimand or possible dishonourable discharge. We better realize that they are in a war! When you don't know your enemy, you will try and obtain information by any means, period! This is no time to be a nice guy. Nice guys get killed!

The politicians who are requesting an inquiry better give their heads a shake - Better yet, send them over to do battle! Cut out the political grandstanding already! I now support no party in Parliament. I just hope that the present government will derail this issue once and for all.

JTP
said
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So the military top man just learned the information he had given since May 2007 was incorrect.So the government, with its knowledge of the situation in part by the information this man provided, may have made a bad choice.This is not a scandal, its a failure of communication. I cannot see how someone can dump this on the current government if they were given bad information. Do they need to revise their position based on this new information? Yes. Public inquiry: still no.

Tim
said
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Seems like the Liberals and the NDP along with the left-leaning media are more concerned about the Taliban suspects themselves instead of the brutality the Taliban are doing to the innocent people of Afghanistan. And it's all to do with scoring political points for the Liberals and the NDP. I don't see either of these two parties standing up and complaining when the Taliban kill Afghan civilians.

Frank (London)
said
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Well where is MacKay and Harper now very quiet and ashamed I imagine. Throw them both under the Bus

eric
said
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We broke the rules of the Geneva Convention. Instead of admitting it and getting on with the business of running the country this government lies like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Peter Mackay is all over the place pointing at someone or something else. He was foreign affairs and is now defence. He should do the honorable thing and resign. Somehow ,I doubt that he will.

Doug, Medicine Hat
said
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I really don't know who to believe in this issue, but I am wondering if we are opening a can of worms that we shouldn't be.

joe viscount
said
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I was raised as a proud Canadian. I knew right from wrong and was confident that my government was representing my beliefs and values. I can no longer say this as my government has clearly lied on the world stage and by so doing has severely eroded Canada's credibility. Mr. Harper has set us back to the level of wannabe's lacking in truth, conviction and the courage required to face the music when wrong.

Ken - Calgary
said
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It is not surprising to see that the CON supporters on this board are performing the same actions as the CON government in this matter - deny, cover up, and try to sweep the issue under the rug so that they can go back to using their own nonsense propaganda to paint the opposition as the bad guys.This issue WILL NOT go away, CON supporters. You're just mad because, finally, the truth about your party is coming to light - that they are a party of liars, hypocrites, spin doctors, and cover-up artists that have NO RIGHT to be governing this country. The sooner you all realize this, the sooner we can get back to Canadian values instead CON values.

allan
said
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Maybe we should have boards of inquiries on all of the battles that Canadian Armed Forces participated in in WWI and WW2, Korea, Bosnia, Cyprus. That would keep beaurocrats busy for the next 100 years. There is no such thing as a clean war. Next the liberals/ndp will want to have a "green war".

Andr� in Ontario
said
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Now what are the Conservative sheeple going to do that the truth has finally come out on what has happened. You all spent so much time trying to discredit the opposition parties but the truth has started to come out about this government & knowledge of what actually happened. This is a complete embarrassment to Canadians, the government of Canada & the sheeple of the Conservatives. It is time for an inquiry& time for Harpo, Mackay & his gang to pay the price for lying to Canada. What a shameful lack of leadership from what is our so called government

Jjaycee
said
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I fail to see how anyone sitting in Ottawa or anywhere in Canada knows exactly what is going on in Afghanistan. People that are there-on the ground-be it Military personal, Ambassadors, or the Media have to be relied on for reports that are factual and truthful. If they give false information they are the ones who should be tracked down and dealt with-be it by demotion or actual prosecution.

reece
said
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Whether you're a conservative in the Bush administration or the Harper admin, don't you ever notice they always play this "I ddidn't know it was happening..." ploy? It's become apparent that neo-cons lose situational awareness. This is why they need to resign. Harper, there is honour in handing your signed resignation papers. Don't go kicking and screaming - it's embarrassing.

MRH1984
said
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There are a number of angry Conservative supporters here and some victorious Liberals but I think we need to set the politics aside and recognize the bigger message here: ONE PERSON CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Richard Colvin risked a great deal to tell the truth and, in doing so, helped us arrive at some vital information. This is a great day for Canadians who still believe in truth and honour despite the easier choice to believe that our best days are behind us.

Derek
said
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How curious. Very rarely does the voting on comments end up on such an even keel. Commenters are weighing in on all sides but it seems everyone is in complete agreement on all topics here.... I wonder how many con/lib assistants are tasked to even the score? Manipulation on this level reminds one of past call-ins to radio shows by insiders pretending to be man on the street. Manipulation = Gov't

ink out
said
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This is always the way cover-ups unfold.The offenders usually get caught on the lie about the original lie.Only a party loyalist could not suspect something is amiss here when you see the amount of black out on the documents the Tories have refused to release for years.A public inquiry appears the only alternative now.

Tim
said
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much ado about nothing - libs blowing this WAY out of proportion.

Robin
said
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Natynczyk, like Hillier before him, is slowly finding out who ACTUALLY runs and directs the Canadian Armed Forces: Stephen Harper and his inner circle spun by the TORY WAR MACHINE. Anyone who actually believes that the General is correcting himself because he realized he made a mistake likely believes that Canada should still be on the fighting lines in Kabul. The General is correcting himself because there is undeniable proof of torture thanks to the fine men and women in the Canadian military that had the decency and conscience to photograph it. His version must be inconsistent with the government's propaganda. Nothing more than another political game courtesy of the CRAP party of Canada.

Who's On First?
said
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Gee, if you can't trust the General, then what is the real security of our nation? New information just came in yesterday about a 2006 incident? Which war, the first or second?

Randy
said
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Enough already! I am sick and tired of the opposition and their never ending witch hunts. They will believe everything they hear from anyone about anything with little or no proof. Quit wasting the taxpayers time and money on all this BS.

allan
said
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I predict that the whole matter will be quietly made to go away, now that it looks like perhaps military personnel, understandibly, in the heat of the battlefield, made decisions to the best of their ability under life and death situations. It is easy for all of us arm-chair generals to mouth off about things we know nothing--we were not there fighting for the politicians who put them there!It will go away now because the Liberals/NDP now know that the problem initiated with the troops on the ground and not the government, and they will not want to go after the troops. Proving again, that it is all about "get the Conservatives".

raj
said
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The left leaning media just love this- lets face it, anything that can help the left before the HOC breaks will be in the news day after day. The fact remains, most people really do not care-including me.

Doug
said
0 0

The Liberals are simply behaving like Nancy Pelosi and the US Congress behaved prior to Obama's election. We don't need to apologise to the world for anything. We are putting our young and brave soldiers at risk and for the Liberals or anyone else to think that whatever happened ( or didn't happen) is worth the damage, both security and financial wise is worth the hoped for political gain the Liberals think they'll get, is absolutely absurd. Let's not resort to US style politics!

Mark in TO
said
0 0

I'm not surprised by the comments on here anymore "Harper must resign over this" etc, I expect the liberals to ignorantly go full steam ahead with this.But did they ever stop to consider that the PMO has absolutely no control (or responsibility for that matter) over what Afghan's do to their own people?Questions should have been asked for sure, questions like "Did Canadians take part in torture?" The answer which has not been debated is a clear "NO", END OF DISCUSSION

Terry
said
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Talk about a tempest in a teapot! If these idiots think there's enough for a public Inquiry for several hundred millios, how about getting togetjer, calling this a non confidance issue and then defeat the government!Let the people decide if this has merit by voting!Of course the libs and dems won't cause they'd get their butt kicked and give Harper a majority.This is nothing but playground tactics to try and embarass the government in lieu of anything that looks like real policy positions.GOD I pray for an election, please bring it on IGGY!

PierreA
said
0 0

Dear Tom Lewis, PhD

About Robert Fowler you write: "where he was "kidnapped" - funny kidnapping where he's kept in a villa......"
What's so funny about being kidnapped by people who wouldn't hesitate to slit your throat at the blink of an eye? why the quotations mark on "kidnapped"? Did the Liberals organize it? Was it a hoax?
You also say that "Canada has no moral or legal responsibility for civilian detainees" held in Afghanistan. Well that makes it quite easy for any government to conduct business "honestly", when you have no legal or moral obligation...
I guess having a PhD makes you see things that are invisible to others...

MHB
said
0 0

I disagree with all who think that this is a minor issue. If indeed members of this government intentionally lied to the Canadian people, then the whole government has to resign. It is not really about the Taliban detainees anymore. Governments who lie to their people and get away with it will always lead their countries to disasters. The keyword here is ACCOUNTABILITY!.

mike campbell
said
0 0

so one diplomat says i saw i heard , he has 0 proof . then his boss and three generals who were really there say he he was wrong or lied and who gets belived . in a court of law this case would have been thrown out by now. then you get this group of retired lib diplomats crying fowl. this is turning into a joke, last night a top general again said this one man that the libs are crying about was NOT a CAF prisoner this is like the 20th person to confrim this i think it is time we told these libs to leave our troops alone

Catwoman 37
said
0 0

As a taxpayer, the way I see it is , that so much money has went into the mission of Afghanistan, and we lost troops due to the war.Information is coming forward from the Canadian Red Cross, and Mr. Colvin and other sources, and the Conservatives are not wanting to hold a inquiry.It looks suspicious for the govt to not hold one.Also, stop and ask yourselves this question, " What is the real reason why Obama is closing down GITMO?".He even said, " we don't believe in torture." Now, our govt, are saying that there is no evidence of torture, but others are saying something different.The only way to get down to the bottom of this fiasco, is to hold an inquiry, even if there is no evidence in the end.Otherwise, what are voters, and taxpayers to believe.

Bill in BC
said
0 0

I would like to see an inquiry. My questions to the inquiry are: 1. Mr. Colvin, since your allegations are not credible, why did you bring them forward? Who requested this of you and what were you promised? 2. To the "former Ambassadors": Gentlemen, having reviewed who you are and the fact that you are all, without exception, appointed by former Liberal governments, Is this a demonstration of your loyalty to the Liberal Party? Have you been promised anythign for doing so? Or is this your attempt to "repay" the party for your appointments? 3. Does ANYONE have ANY evidence to present in this matter? (Innuendo, supposition, rumour, gossip, blind thoughts, fabrications, etc do not constitute evidence.)

allan
said
0 0

Thousands of Afghan civilians have been viciously murdered by Taliban and we are worried about one terrorist with a bloody nose!If I were a Canadian soldier I would not volunteer to go over there, because the Liberals/NDP and other groups will try to brand me as a war criminal. This is a war for pete's sake. We will not win because tis war is being politicized by reporters and politicians.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said
0 0

@ Scott B: You asked, "Where will the incompetence of this government end." Well, Scott, I suspect the hilariously melodramatic notion of "incompetence" you speak of is leading directly to a Conservative majority. In other words, what your partisan-zombie eyes see as "incompetence" is really nothing more than political grandstanding by the downtrodden Opposition on Parliament Hill. If you think Canadians across this land (other than card-carrying and woefully discouraged Liberals and NDPers) are all in a tizzy over this "issue," you're as politically out of touch as Michael Ignatieff and Paul Dewar. The Liberals committed Canada to Afghanistan, the Liberals established the policy of handing over detainees to Afghan authorities, and the go-nowhere crowd in the House of Commons is simply trying to build a mountain out of an empty handful of crap. (Believing our government and our military contently and continually turned a blind eye to torture requires the withholding of common sense.) Your partisan "outrage" amounts to little more than a buttocks cough in the wind.

James
said
0 0

truthfully I don't care about taliban detanees. They have no sway on my voting choice. Afghanistan is a violent place. Do you think the Taliban treat their captives with the samekind of respect Canadian soliders show them? Is it our resposibility to try and make sure the Afghans don't torture prisoners? Sure. But it isn't our fault when it happens. We just have to tell the Afghans to shape up. Nothing of any other significance should come of it. I'm pretty sure every other NATO country is havign the same problem, but I don't hear any of them aving inquiries. All this is, is a made in Canada problem.

my take on this
said
0 0

Remember how Stephen Harper and John Baird behaved in the House of Commons over the sponsorship scandal when they were members of the opposition. Google's definition of Opposition is strong, angry, or violent disagreement and disapproval. Isn't that the way Steve and John were reacting in the House of Commons? Once again the shoe is on the other foot and the conservatives don't like the way the game is being played. There appears to be information that Peter McKay and Stephen Harper don't want Canadians to know. Stephen Harper promised transparency. Surely the Conservative Party of Canada has someone to lead the party that has a higher degree of credibility than Stephen Harper. Plain and simple, the opposition parties in the House of Commons are doing their job.

Danny Dinosaur
said
0 0

Unfortunately - for all Canadians, this might just be a waste of time. From reading the posts on here, no one is actually concerned about whether or not Canada was supporting the torture of prisoners. The only interest of the 'communication experts" is around meaningless political propaganda. From that standpoint, it is a complete waste of time and money.However, as a Canadian, I would like to know if we were (are) supporting the torture of detainees. I would like to think I live in a country that would be against this sort of thing and that we would demand that it was stopped. After reading the comments, I am not sure that is the case. I am not sure what values Canadians have left. My only hope is that this is actually just political gamesmanship and people really have not abandoned our Canadian values along side the politicians. There are a lot of smart people out there. It is time to start speaking up or our international reputation will match the U.S. very soon. Not to mention what we will be left with within our own borders.

Jim in Bowmanville
said
0 0

So a bunch of liberal appointees, who unlike our soldiers have for the most part never been closer to the sharp end of things than a corkscrew at a diplomatic function, brandish innuendo and heresay evidence to attack the Canadian government and military on behalf of some terrorists who claim to have been roughed up years ago while in Afgan custody. If these partisan ex-diplomats are so intent on performing a useful idiot PR funcition for the Taliban, then perhaps they should give up their gold plated pensions and seek recompense from those who behead female school teachers and cowardly blow up our troops from afar. The detainee issue has been reasonably dealt with, and fair minded Canadians will not take kindly to those who have stoked this controversy simply to score political points.

simon
said
0 0

""" On Tuesday, 23 former ambassadors signed a letter condemning the Harper government for attacking Colvin. On Wednesday, it was reported that the list of diplomats endorsing the list could rise to 35 by the end of the day, and later climb to 50. """"" For Goodness sake, Peter, Stop the Cover Up, Stop the lies ! Can we have the TRUTH please!

Serving CF Member
said
0 0

This nonsense has to end. The Liberal-NDP witch hunt is nothing more than another attempt to smear the lawfull government. One an aside, a related story shows that members of the CF are taking less time off to take care of illness than before. They do that for this country NOT so you can engage in this behaviour. Grow up and get on with the business of the nation.

Paul
said
0 0

Why are we talking about this? A complete waste of time and money. Most other non-G20 countries torture prisoners. Everyone knows that, so whay are we discussing it?

peter in MB
said
0 0

Didn't Iggy once write an article in time magazine stating that in the war on terror a civilize nation can justify the use of torture to extract vital information from the enemy. Do throw stones when you like in a glass house iggy.

Marcel in the Fort
said
0 0

Let's stop this foolishness. This is no way to run a government by having every little thing from the past come up. This is from a Liberal government mess and now they are after everyone to blame and clean up. There is only one winner and that is the members who are on these committees (get extra points and money for sitting). As soon as this issue is over there will be another issue from the opposition. They will search for the smoking gun until they find one -- and it does not matter who owns the gun. This is the first time I see such waste of time and money from any opposition parties.It has to stop and an election will certainly allow us to speak to these issues. Move on to working for Canadians and not your party.

Grandma
said
0 0

I think every Canadian should read the book ( The Bread winner.) before making a decsion on this subject. It is about a girl in Afghansitan who has to take care of her family her father had been put in jail there. Pick up a copy and read, The Bread winner by Deborah Ellis.All royalties from this book are donated to women for women in afganistan.I think Peter Mckay should read it also.

John from B.C.
said
0 0

Please o please can we stop this forever trying to prove the governtment was negligent.Can the media or any of us give a ten procent of the attention spent on this. And give it to and reflect on the sacrifice our brave man and woman are giving.Do we realize that if detainees were tortured?,they were not the only one.Do we reflect on the pain, torture ,famlies go trough,. in having lost love one,s? IOr is it so much more important, to establish prove that the government was in fact not acting in urgencies on behave of the detainees? In a time when our soldiers came home in body bags. My heart goes out to all those who so willingly put their life on the line

Metro
said
0 0

Next headline: "Harper declares MacKay, O'Connor classified."Honestly, when's the full public inquiry going to happen?These guys have shown they can't run a war, they can't run an environment, and they sure as hell can't run an economy.Conservative Party Motto: "Shoot, loot, and pollute."

SunCoaster
said
0 0

I don't why they are grilling Mackay. Didn't he all ready deny all knowledge, and didn't the government all ready declare Colvin a liar? I sure Harper and MacKay wouldn't try to mislead us, after all they ran on transparency, accountability and law and order. This is just the Liberals trying to cover their own butts, after all it's all their fault for going into Afghanistan in the first place.Tongue firmly in cheek.

Adam in Ottawa
said
0 0

I find it curious that Conservative supporters think it would be a "waste" of money to have an enquiry. If detainees were handled properly then an enquiry will prove this and the Conservatives come out on top. The way they are carrying on though makes me wonder if there aren't some skeletons floating around in the closet. They've pretty much dragged Colvin's name through the mud, now they will have to do the same for these 40 other ex Diplomats that have come forward. If there is no public enquiry then we as Canadians will have to wonder where the more "open and transparant" government that Harper promised us is. Oh and let us please stop the "this is an insult to our troops" idiocy while we're at it. This in no way belittles our armed forces or takes away from their bravery and accomplishments. We know that our troops did not torture anybody. The question is did we turn them over to be tortured. If this happened the blame does not fall on the ground forces but instead on the military brass and the government.

Tom Hawley
said
0 0

To those that are using our military troops as the issue are obvious conservative supporters.You never seem to have your own opinion.It appears you wait for a conservative MP to speak and then repeat.NO PERSON is blaming our troops!It was the conservatives who planted the troops as the target.Is it ignorance that some can't or won't see what the issue is about?We had people die in trying to help others.If innocent people or those that were trained/brainwashed to harm others, does this make it right to be tortured themselves ? Some probably did not know what they were doing was actually wrong. We all are fed our beliefs from the time we are born.Obvious some good and some no so good.I am on the understanding that these detainees were to be detained by the "good" Afghans. If so, and our government knew that these people were being turned over to be tortured themselves than our brave women and men died for nothing. One can not condemn one group that tortures and condone another!Some MP's need to show that there is more to a politician than just politics.

Frank Buchan
said
0 0

The LPC was in the driver's seat when they shoved our under-supplied and underfunded military into one of the most dangerous conflicts in the world. They had to know about the torture allegations long before they were swept out of office, and so did these diplomats. The only reason for this to be surfacing now is political, which raises a number of ethical questions the present opposition should answer before proceeding, such as why the Afghan detainees only matter now.The problem is, while it is probably true some or most of these Taliban fighters were tortured, under the rules as designated by the UN and NATO, etc., as to how we were/are involved in the Afghan conflict, we had very little actual choice but to hand over the detainees. Worse, there is no evidence that is reliable to prove torture, and like fools we are allowing politicians (ilk matters not one whit) to blow this into an issue without ever offering an ounce of proof beyond hearsay. In short, it isn't that the public is for torture, but we are entirely against the use of a human rights issue like this for political gain where we had so little control of the situation. Asking us to choose between our troops and their safety, or some possible human rights violations based upon hearsay from appointed bureaucrats is politically dangerous. Thinking this will hurt the current government is a mistake; it will, instead, hurt all politicians even further, since it is so obviously self-serving.

Alex (Toronto)
said
0 0

Everyone in Kabul knew that prisoners were being tortured. The issue is not whether or not this happened, but whether the Canadians handing detainees over to the Afghan "government" knew about it. It is clear that Richard Colvin knew about it and notified the minister's office. So what has clearly happened is that the Harper government ignored the first reports, and independent reports, and only took action after it became obvious to the Canadian media. We expect the Canadian military to follow lawful orders, and we also expect the Canadian government to give lawful orders and to stand up for Canadian values. Unlike other armies in the region, we facilitated violations of human rights, not just of "terrorists" but of innocent people who got swept up. This has led to a perception in Afghanistan that we are just part of an imperialist occupation, which causes a lack of credibility on the part of the Western-backed "elected" government and a strengthening of the Taliban. We send our troops into harm's way to stand up for the Canadian values of peace, order, and good government and to make the world a better place. The Harper government is wasting the hard work and dire risk of our soldiers, simply to avoid some bad press at home. Conservatives can blame the Liberals, the civil servants, or the media, but eventually people see the truth.

GTA
said
0 0

As far as I'm concerned our military operated within their mandate. Even if they did know abuse was taking place, they did take appropriate action when witnessed. I think Canadians must realize we are dealing with people who are guerilla fighters and do not fly the flag of Afghanistan, nor obey by their laws. Afghanistan is a Geneva country so why are they not taking responsibility for the mess in their own jail system?

Dan
said
0 0

Everyone is saying that these people cut off heads so it doesn't matter what we do to them. When we arrest people in Afghanistan, we have no idea who they are. They could simply be villagers caught in the crossfire trying to save their family. Torturing them is very wrong. We are supposed to be fighting AGAINST this kind of stuff. Seems like we are becoming like South Africa and think its fine to close our eyes. Shame what war does to people.

Ray
said
0 0

Rick in NB, Ste Marie said "Peter Mackay is now paying the piper. Like the rest of the 143 MPs he was told to shut up and let Harper do the talking. Well it doesn't matter anymore, somebody is getting revenge for the way Peter sold out the PC party." >> You might be on to something here. Given the number of Progressives who no longer have a party I suspect it's only time before this Conservative party fractures and the Progressives decide to split off and form a new party. Then the dance starts all over again with a decade of Liberal governments. It's no win for me though, I'd have a party to vote for again but it wouldn't matter.

Deforest
said
0 0

I am tired of the constant bickering from both sides, in this situation. Am wondering why the conservatives are so adamant about not even admitting there is a possibility of torture. I wonder if like an iceberg there is a lot more under the surface or not?

Adam Lambert
said
0 0

I became a Liberal because I felt the support for gay marriage was strong enought to get involved in politics and this storey makes me want to get involved again to bring the conservatives down they have orgistrated everyone their to lie only Colvin came forward it may be 2nd or 3rd hand ionformation but I believe the taliban even if they killed our troops.

Brett in Montr�al
said
0 0

The CON sheeple will blindly follow their leader and his cronies even if it means ignoring international law.. this CON government has to go, and it is time for change. I am a proud Canadian that will not condone or tolerate torture in any means and I will never support a government that says it is okay, or understand the people that think it is okay because we are at war. Wake up you CON sheeple!

Tom in BC
said
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Perhaps the Geneva convention should be re-written to include something about handing prisoners over to a corrupt government that seems incapable of controlling what goes on within its prisons. The liklihood of this happening is probably zero so it looks like Mackay will take the fall for Harpo.

Peter in MB
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So 23 former ambassadors signed a letter, whop de do. How many of them have been to Afghanistan? The last time I checked France was nowhere near Afghanistan so who has the (zero credibility) here? One thing that has been uncovered is the depth of the liberal corruption over the years.

Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
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This is getting ridiculous and desperate on the liberal's behalf by dragging in these ex-Liberal appointed ambassador's.It just show's you the length's they will take to use the media to damage not only the reputation of the minister's involved but also the reputation's of our military personnel from not just the top brass but the soldier's in the field.When we went into Afghanistan we were stuck with the only place left open as Chretien failed to negotiate a deployment early enough in the war and we got stuck with the toughest theatre of conflict,Khandahr.Not only were we sent into this difficult and violent operation unnecessarily but we were unprepared,our troop's were sent into battle poorly equipped with only light armoured vehicle's,no air support and olive green camoflauge uniform's.They courageously fought against a Taliban who weren't just planting I.E.D's overnight to try to restrict our troop's movement's through the day but were launching full scale frontal assault's numbering in the hundred's ,our casualty's were high and we were dealing with chaos in the field.They were left with a prisoner exchange program set up by the previous government and as they progressed issue's were becoming known and it was determined a better system was needed as the Afghan's were getting enjoyment out ogf beating the hell out of these Taliban who had been persecuting them for so many year's.This all took place in a very short period of time as we entered the war in 06 and step's were taken to alleviate transfer concern's in the spring of 07.This is nothing more than political shenanigan's at there lowest level as I feel it is a disgrace what they are doing and only serve's to sully the reputation of our troop's and add's to the propoganda of the Taliban and Al-Aqaeda.

Charlie in NS
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Again I say. When the Taliban stop seperating people's heads from their bodies, I might, I said might, want to listen to stories about one Afghan putting a thumping on another Afghan. Until that happens, I'll be busy putting up my Christmas (yes CHRISTMAS) decorations.

DCR-Toronto
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The Liberals had better be very careful. They are starting to look like they are more interested in taking down our own country, instead of our enemies. Canadians are all for justice, but push us too far towards supporting an enemy over the government of our own country....and you are walking on glass. Careful lefties....

Peter, Kamloops, BC
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I cannot believe we are worried about the taliban terrorists. The bleeding hearts obviously care more about them than our military women and men who are dying from the taliban�s IEDs. Thank God the soldiers didn't use a taser on them, can you imagine the hoopla from that. It's time this waste of tax payer money stops, taliban Jack, Iggy, and the separatist, need to go back to the usual Canadian problems they bitch about and not worry about terrorists. Our soldiers who have been killed and maimed by the IEDs of this terrorists, need our thoughts not the people who did this to them.

Joe Montreal
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I am sick of our country sending our kids to defend people who will slice your throat so we can defend the Karzai corrupt govt. Now we have to waste tax payers money during a recession because maybe some terrorist were tortured by the host country. The Conservatives should be sent to the Committee to see how we will get out of our own economic mess and how we can protect our kids, not trying to protect the rights of terrorist by the host country (Afhanistan). These same terrorist would cut the throats of our soldiers and would love to kidnap our citizens and cut their throats. Now we need to waste our money because maybe some terrorist were slapt around. The left needs to wake up.

Frank Sisson
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Time to pull the plug on the voting the liberal votes went up by 40 in two minutes either a record number of readers voting within 2 minutes or the site is manipulated.

Rick in NB, Ste Marie
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Peter Mackay is now paying the piper. Like the rest of the 143 MPs he was told to shut up and let Harper do the talking. Well it doesn't matter anymore, somebody is getting revenge for the way Peter sold out the PC party. He proably ticked off one of the old guard. I must say, fear looks very good on him.

Singing in the shower
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I watched a bit of this stuff on TV and the opposition parties are twisting this like crazy it was so bad I had to shower twice after watching them.

Kenneth T. Tellis
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The question that nobody has asked as yet, has the Harper regime been elected to misgovern and misrule Canada?First the RCMP officers get off scot free after killing a Polish visitor to Canada, then the government itself is tryiing to pull a fast one by denying the torture of Afghan detainees that they gave up to Afghan authorities for torture.I ask where is this parliamentary circus think it's going? Minister Peter MacKay should be forced to resign immediately because he was undeniably guilty of failure to handle the situation at hand.I am NOT a LIBERAL as might be assumed by those who read my message.

Independent Voter
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This is another reason as an ex-Liberal now an independent I am leaning towards the Conservatives.

Carder Gropp
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When we are in a declared "war" i.e.1990 Gulf War, where the House of Commons votes and the Government of the day declared War on the nation of Iraq. We then as soldiers have rules to follow. Both sides wear uniforms and use internationally accepted weapons and tactics. One side wins when we kill, wound or capture enough of the other side that they surrender. POW's are detained by the capturing power until hostilities cease, no matter how long that war takes. During WW II Canada held thousands of German POW's on Canadian soil until Germany surrendered and then they were returned during the prisoner exchange of 1946. This is a "war on terrorism" like the "war on drugs" it does not have status as a nation. Canada did not declare war on the nation of Afghanistan only dedicating to assit the legitimate government in power with their terrorist problem. We may not like the government in power in Afghanistan (50 % of canadians don't like our current government in power) but we did commit to helping them with their problem because it had global implications. Terrorist's by definition are criminals not soldiers. As an assisting power we are legally obliged to turn over every captured suspect (after all in this country a criminal is an "alleged suspect" until proven guilty in a court of law. Therefore we must turn over everyone we suspect of having commited a crime to the governing party. Whether we like their form of Criminal Justice or not. We should either bring the captured to Canada and hold them till the "war on terror" is won or stop whinning when we have to give criminals over to the Afghan legal system that doesn't treat crimals like we do.

Tom
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The idea that Colvin was a top diplomat is preposterous and misleads Canadians. During his very short period in Kandahar he worked for a major and a lieutenant-colonel,who commanded the Provincial Reconstruction Team. That makes him the civilian equivalent of a captain or at best a major. Furthermore he never reported his concerns to these immediate superiors. Then at the Embassy in Kabul he was a flunky for the ambassador who was, himself, in a very junior ambassadorial position. Please, no more crap.

John Soldier
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As a soldier I can tell you Liberals your actions just made our life tougher in Afganistan. They all claim they were tortured and claim they were innocent farmers. If they catch one of us they will torture us. We want to be there getting kids to school not worried about be butchered because now most surrender peacefully.

Chris
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Here we go! Our Troops and Defence Minister on trial for the Taliban. What an insult for Canada from the Libs.

bogaro
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if Canadians have been impilicated in war crimes the world should know it and Canadian people shouls know too

Peter 1951
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Wow, I see al the Liberals are up early this morning, clicking off the "agree & disagree column" The Liberals don't mind spending 10 or 15 million of Canadian tax payers money for a useless inquiry, after all that is what they were stealing from us on a daily basis back when they were in power.

J.C.
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From my perspective I find it very strange that the Liberals who set up the first agreement of prisoner exchange did not take the "torture" of Afghan prisoners likely and therefore did not do their job to ensure any agreement signed would ensure monitoring any prisoner's turned over to Afghanistan. This means that from 2002-2006 nothing was done by our government of that time - the Liberals. Yet here they are screaming that it was the Conservatives that failed to do so, even though it is the Cons that changed the agreement to include prisoner monitoring. One would think that since the Liberals were more experienced at governing than the Cons that this would have been accomplished during their reign. I guess the Libs only real concern is making political points. How sad that they do not look at their own failings before attacking the current government. I also wonder if they would have heeded the warnings of Colvin over his senior diplomat in Afghan. I personally have no doubt that Colvin's intentions were good, however I don't think it is possible to take his word alone in the overall situation at the time. His superior would be the one with the bigger picture.I tire of this constant bashing in Ottawa. It is time the politicians to admit they are not all perfect and that there was no intent to have prisoners tortured. Please let's move on to more current items.

Wade Ens
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Lets see Colvin who worked under the Liberals was able to get second hand opinions on torture right after the conservatives take over but never able to verify any and all the soldiers, the Defense Minister General Hillier and all the other General and the then Ambassador must all be lying.

Prof. Pye Chartt
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Commons Committee: "Mr. MacKay, did this government ever knowingly hand over Afghan detainees to Afghan authorities for possible torture?Minister MacKay: "Nope."Commons Committee: "Mr. MacKay, do you believe this is a silly partisan issue inflated by the parliamentary Opposition and flogged by the media to a Canadian public that doesn't truly care whether our 'enemy' may have suffered at the hands of their own countrymen?"Minister MacKay: "Yep."Commons Committee: "Mr. MacKay, do you fear Liberal Leader Ignatieff and his Party, and who do you think is smarter and more handsome...you or Liberal Leader Ignatieff?"Minister MacKay: "Nope, and ME."Commons Committee: "Thank-you, Mr. MacKay. This concludes our pointless questioning.

Scott B, PHD I wrote it, so that means I have one
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Eventually the Conservative/Reform party is going to run out of excuses. Where will the incompetence of this government end? From the ministry of defense, to the ministry of the environment - the PMO attempts to remedy their scandals by spending more of our tax dollars on scripted media communications, instead of improving policy. The Harper Conservatives will never win a majority government, because they will never understand the majority of Canadians!

Chris in Kingston
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The Defense minister has now been forced into answering questions to a partisan committee hell-bent on on grabbing the only short straw they can to smear the Government. Does the Opposition honestly have that little faith in Canadians and Canadian soldiers that we would willingly be a party to torture? That kind of notion spits in the face of the thousands of peacekeepers who have gone to third world countries to PREVENT genocide and torture of innocents. Many of those peacekeepers are now doing their real job as soldiers, taking the fight to the enemy in Afghanistan.

Tom Brady
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Canadian troops are not responsible for what is happening in 2006. They received these detainees, 96 hours to process them and by agreement were told to hand over them to the Afghan authorities. The Afgan authorities then tortured their own and set up the Canadians. That is why we found out this later and we Canadians took control over this detainee handling by this corrupted government. Canadians did their job as told by the troops coming back to Edmonton in 2006. Put that in the commitee

J in Hfx
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We go to Afghanistan spending billions to help. We get shot at, wounded and killed. We detain Afghans who are suspected of trying to kill us. We try to cooperate with their government, because it is their country.AND We are at fault for not having built and run a special Canadian jail the people we arrest as they try to kill us. Yep. God keep our land.

Peter 1951
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The question here isn�t, did some Taliban prisoners get tortured. The question here is, did Canadian soldiers turn Taliban prisoners over to the Afghanistan people knowing that they would be tortured. This has the Mulroney & Schreiber inquiry written all over it. Remember we paid 14 million to find out Mulroney didn't claim 300 thousand on his taxess, which we already knew. I agree with Mckay, this is nothing but a witch hunt by the Liberals and NDP.

Rene
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It's not just MacKay who has to resign but also Prime Minster Harper, since as we all know the buck actually stops with him. Nothing happens in his cabinet without his approval, regardless of the image he would like to present to the gullible public. When will the public, and the government supporters finally wake up to the fact that they have elected a party and a leader who is more intent on branding this country's ideological perspectives, than in managing a country for the good of the people.

Kevin
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Okay, I think every Canadian knows there was an issue with detainees back in 2006, but the military made the necessary changes then and it is no longer an issue. It was a combination of Liberal/Conservative mistakes that were corrected; but we do not need a comission spending millions of dollars to try and find some cover up - and all the finger pointing going on now is more demoralizing of my opinion of government officials than anything. Move on please, and let an election be the means of deciding if we want to put some of these people back into the hotseat.

Allan Eizinas
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The have always been tensions between the �Twin Towers� in Ottawa � the �Foreign Affairs Department� (diplomats) and the �Department of Defence� (the military). This tension has now been allowed to break out into a question of credibility. When Harper prepared and paraded out the military generals to deny any �torture� and attack Colvin then the line was drawn. Now �Foreign Affairs� is coming back with 40 former ambassadors speaking up. This is an ugly battle that will have no winners.

Tom Lewis, PhD
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I find it interesting that this particular Canadian vice of self-flagulation is being manipulated so strongly by the Liberals. It's odd when you consider exactly how many bodies the "natural ruling party" has buried. Start with Robert Fowler, a Liberal appointee to External Affairs; before that he was a Liberal appointee to DND (an ADM to be exact) who was bounced from there because of allegations of fraud and malfeasance. He then moved over to theUN where he "represented" Canada officially but actually pushed the Liberal agenda regardless of who the actual government was. Then he moved over to the faous posting in Africa where he was "kidnapped" - funny kidnapping where he's kept in a villa...... My point is that for all their transgressions, the present government has at least conducted the business of the nation HONESTLY. That is far more than the various Liberal governments fo the past 40 years can claim. Last point, Canada has no legal or moral responsibility for civilian detainees held by the lawful government of Afghanistan. Case closed. (sent from my blackberry on public transit - and the heater is STILL broken! Global warming my sweet aunt fanny!)

Bill in BC
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I am SICK of this grandstanding. If you can't win an election honestly, keep trying to steal the result-even going to the lengths of attempting a (barely legal) coup. What next? Are you going to try blaming the snow on the elected government? Give it up Liberals, we have had enough of YOU. No I'm not a conservative - just tired of your nonsense.