Senator questions PM's plan for upper chamber

A Liberal and a Conservative Senator debate a Tory plan to stack 18 vacant Senate seats with party loyalists, each with their own take on the motivation behind the rumoured move.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Dec. 12 2008 8:34 AM ET

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's plan to pump 18 Conservative loyalists into vacant Senate seats is good for the effectiveness of the upper chamber, but the motivation is questionable, according to one member.

Harper said as recently as one month ago that Senate reform was a priority for him, and his goal was to make the Red Chamber into an elected body.

The apparent contradiction prompted many to suggest the recent move to stack the Senate is nothing more than a desperate power grab in what could be the dying days of the Harper government.

"With regard to the rumoured filling of the vacancies, you have to look at the motivation," Sen. Wilfred Moore, who was appointed by former Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien, told CTV's Canada AM.

"Is it just because he's afraid of losing government or is it because he wants the chamber to work, causing him to do his constitutional duty?"

He admitted it is difficult for the Senate to function properly in its current state, particularly when it comes to committees.

"If it does happen I'm pleased the Senate will be filled and the chamber can work properly as one of our two houses or Parliament," he said.

The high rate of empty seats "causes our committees to be undermanned -- and that is the strength of the Senate, I believe."

However, Moore suggested the move might have more to do with Harper's precarious position in government -- a Liberal-NDP coalition could bring the government down in January -- rather than a genuine desire to improve the functionality of Senate.

He said he has been working for two years to get the seats filled. A bill he put forward would require the Governor General to fill Senate seats within six months of their being vacated.

The bill was endorsed by Senate in May and went forward to the House of Commons. However, it was dropped, like all other bills before Parliament, when Commons was suspended last week by the governor general at Harper's request.

"So it's a bit disingenuous to have this happening now," Moore said. "There was the opportunity to do something proper before and it hasn't happened so we'll see what the future holds."

The Senate currently comprises 58 Liberals and 20 Conservatives.

Harper's plan was slammed on Thursday in Ottawa as a desperate power grab.

"This is just a hog-troughing orgy, it seems the Conservatives have tossed their principles out the window," NDP MP Pat Martin told CTV News on Thursday as word about the appointments spread over Parliament Hill.

The announcement was also seen as a sharp policy reversal for the prime minister, who has long been a champion of making the Red Chamber an elected body.

Liberal democratic reform critic Joyce Murray said the appointments "fly in the face" of the Tory election platform and will further erode the public's trust in the current government.

"This is not an act that will restore trust with Canadians, nor will it restore confidence in this prime minister in the eyes of Parliament," she said in a statement.

In the Tory throne speech, which was delivered les than a month ago, Harper said: "Our government believes that Canada is not well-served by the Senate in its current form."

Harper added in the speech that the Tories would continue to push for a new system that accounted for "direct consultations with voters on the selection of senators and limitations on their tenure."

Senior Tory staffers also said that Harper's hand has been forced because the Liberal-heavy Senate is dysfunctional.

"It's an institution that needs to be functioning, and as we look at it now, it's not functioning in its full regime," said Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon Thursday.

Industry Minister Tony Clement echoed those sentiments and stressed that the Tories haven't abandoned their promise of reform.

"We want a Senate that is elected, but clearly, the Liberal-dominated Senate does not want that," he said.

Liberal MP Wayne Easter, meanwhile, said that Harper has no right to make patronage appointments when the House of Commons remains locked in a constitutional grey area.

Comments are now closed for this story

Ricky - Calgary
said

Most of the comments are totally of base, if you people actually read the article you would understand what the guy was really talking about. He is question why now is the PM appointing senators and not before.

Popo
said

A lot of people seem to be missing the point. Considering Harper wants senators to be elected, appointing them seems hypocritical. Appointing 18 of them before he may be defeated just goes to show you that his ideals take a back seat to his political ambitions.

His credibility was minimal at best, now it's going... going... gone!

Abolish the senate and free the west!
said

No elected senate waste of time and money! get rid of it period!
Abolish the senate and free the west! 2 problems solved for us real Canadians.

Abolish it now! best for all.
said

The solution is not to appoint, not to vote in but just abolish the senate!

That would bring an extra few millions that can be used to stimulate the economy and create valuable jobs not retirement home for old politicians

James
said

Pick a house, pick a seat pick anything. These Liberal Ass%%* truely think they can continue to convince the Canadian People that they need to back the Liberals to slay the head off of the Tory monster that is our government elect. Yeah like there is a Liberal alive that can be trusted. Pick anything from our history of the Liberals and see how unified they kept Canada. The only vision any Liberal has of Canada involves Ontario and Quebec - only. Like that is going to build trust and unity accross our great nation. Iggy needs to make it clear to his party members - pull some heads out of thier ass.

Divisive and Partisan Harper
said

Can anybody still believe in what Harper says anymore?
Remember what he said about:
The Income Trust.
Fixed election dates.
An elected senate.

Has time not proven that this guy is a cheap LIAR not worthy of being Prime Minister?

So he will appoint 18 senators during the time he prorogued parliament giving everybody 2 months vacation paid by the tax payers so that he can avoid a non confidence vote and spend another $300,000,000 for en election in Feb. 2009.

So how will these 18 new senators fix the economy.

Is he putting the interest of Canada first?
Or is he not putting the interest of the Tory party first?

I think he is preparing for his downfall and this is the last "good" thing he can do for the Tory twits.

Peter
said

Are we all reading the same thing? because its not that they dont support the appointments there just saying that cons have had 6months to do it and now are only waiting till there in possible trouble to stack the house maybe the reason the senate wasnt working is because 18 of them werent there

Joyce
said

Filling the Senate with new Senators is not in any case something which is out of line any PM will do so, and has the right to do so.
Harper had tried to get the Elected Senate through to no avail. We see Saskatchewan now following suit, and to me it is inevitable that this will go through. We need fresh blood not just having Senators take up a seat until they are 75 yrs old and then retire, especially for those who were defeated by the Electorate in an election. Haper's thoughts on filling the Senate Seats untill the Elected Senators will come to fruition, will ensure those filling the seats now will be up for Election. This is a first step towards an elected Senate.

If Haper does notdo so, the next Government will stack it with their own.

As the saying goes; " what is good for the goose, is good for the gander".
Liberals would be crying shame unless it is their own who get the push into the Senate.
Safe the Rhetoric.

James in Winnipeg
said

Of course Harper is doing this now in the face of strong opposition. Good for him, it benefits his party as well as the senate and it is absolutely no different from what the Liberals have always done. Folks this is good news, we Canadians can finally say our government has done something - whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. It's just nice to some work done for once, no matter how partisan or insignificant it is.

Joe in Cochrane
said

So there are not currently enough Senators to effectively run committees? Well, if the current senators would show up, maybe there would be...

JC Kelan (Amherst, NS)
said

Okay, we have heard their criticisms, but what do they propose? They have offered absolutely nothing as a more appropriate action to be taken by the Prime Minister.

Why? Because this is the only plausible action for the Prime Minister to take after being unable to get other parties, the Senate itself, and the provinces to agree to any type of reform.

Perhaps some would argue that he should appoint Senators from all other partisan perspectives. However, this would not solve the problem either. The issue is that there are more than enough Liberals for the committees but an insufficient number from the Government.

I say, do it! (Ideally, with a provision that they have to resign if an election option is adopted in the future).

Linda in Vancouver
said

Is anyone shocked to hear Liberals whining about this one?? Come on!!.They were just salivating at all those vacanies.All hoping to be the lucky Liberal friends chosen to get places at the public trough,and never have to face the voters again.I read Wayne Easter's comment and it had tears of laughter rolling down my face.Do these people think we actually believe the things they spinour way??
There are 3 vacant BC seats in the Senate.How can anyone defend the notion that either Harper,or any other PM,most likely a Liberal from the socialists in central Canada,should make those appointments.
If a Senator is going to Ottawa to represent BC,he/she should be sent there by the people of BC.Period.Anything less is nonsense.
Personally,I don't want Harper to reform the Senate by himself.What I really want is for Liberals and Conservatives to work on this together.
One thing is clear.There will be no united Canada as long as the blister on our so called democracy,is allowed to fester.This is not a partisan issue.Even most Liberals in the west know this needs to be done.
It is long past the time when a decision has to be made.One way or another.If eastern Canada cannot make some changes here,please,all we in the west need,is for someone to have the courage to stand up and say "this is not going to happen,ever".
If that is the way it's going to be,we can put that idea out of it's misery,and the west can look for other options.It's really quite simple.Just like Quebec.No hard feelings.But the status quo in not an option.
REFORM THE SENATE OR FREE THE WEST !!

Chris Hodgson in Ontariariari-Oh!
said

The senate should be elected and represent a more regional base,not population base.This will ensure all Canadians have a more equitable say than the way it is now as central Canada tends to have greater representation.If they can't get any kind of consensus between provinces and government they should get rid of it.Between the liberal dominated senate and liberal dominated commitees legislation just crawls along.The last parliament was a good example of that,the liberals didn't need a house majority as they would just drag out or reject legislation after it passed the house and moved on to the senate.Other countries have abolished it and they seem to be doing fine a recent example is Australia.

JR from Pointe Claire
said

It is time to turf HARPER - another travesty where he is promoting his buddies and girlfriends in to plum Senate positions yet he yapped about Senate Reform to get elected and re-elected in another minority. We have seen the useless Ministers, with zipped lips, that he has promoted and yet, he is going to promote more slugs to plum Senate appointments. Turf him Michael & company. Where is the GG today - on another world tour compliments of us taxpayers again!!! I can't wait for the next election as we Quebecers are going to turf all of his party faithful out in this Province and we send the challenge to those in Ontario to do the same!! Where are the incentives to get out of the Recession - how many jobs are lost daily in Ontario???

Wally - Conservatives always 100% Right
said

I think Harper is doing the right thing - first all that he appoints will have to stand for election if his senate reform goes through. Second - if the coalition BS would ever get into power you can rest assure that within the second day Liberal, NDP and Bloc indiviuals would be appointed to fill these seats. My My what a country where you have senators sitting from a parties that want to break up Canada and also turn us into a welfare state.

Harper continue doing what your doing against the opposition parties of liers and theives.

Bev in NB
said

I am amazed that Senator Moore had the audacity to say that the Senate is its own think tank and thinks independentaly of the House (I listened to the interview). What about in 2005 when Martin pushed through same-sex marriage and the Senate rubber-stamped it. What happened to their thinking skills then? They certainly weren't in operation then especially when the majority of Canadians were in favour of keeping the traditional definition of marriage. It amazes me also that the Liberals and LiberalSenate shout power-grab on the part of the PM when he is only trying to protect Canada from having the Liberals appoint Seperatists to the Senate has a part of the Coalition agreement. Smart move for the PM to care about Canada.

AylmerBob
said

There is no hypocracy left for Harper - the Liberals have it all.
This is the party that has filled the upper chamber with useless hacks, and should they be allowed to impose their disgusting coalition on Canada for a week, we all know they would be adding more of their own kind to the Senate.

Harper has tried to get Senate reform, but the Senate won't allow it, and the provinces have not co-operated by electing candidates. He has no choice but to appoint persons who agree with reform, hoping they won't become too used to their entitlements before they have a chance to support reform from within.

This is simply an effective leader doing what he has to do.

Daniel, Belle River
said

With all due respect, I'd rather see Harper giving the seats to Conservatives than seeing the coalition giving some of the seats to the NDP. It's clear why Harper is doing this, the coalition's first task would be to fill those seats and any future Conservative gov't would be severely ham-strung.

Politics is like hot-dogs, you don't like seeing either of them getting made.

Peter
said

Harper CAN'T reform the Senate because the Senate WON'T PASS the reform bill! He has to stack it with Conservatives TO reform it. Besides, what is so "unethical" about a Conservative PM appointing Conservative senators? Last time I checked, Liberals did the same thing, which is why there is so many of them now, you babies!

Vickie
said

Why was a Conservative Senate member not questioned regarding the PM's motives instead of a Liberal?

I think anyone assigned the Senate should have NO affiliation. They need to work for the good of the people not the good of a party.

The PM has every right to fill those seats, as we all know. He is doing it at this time because yes his back is against the wall. I believe he is protecting the senate from being filled by Bloc and NDP candidates. Don't forget Ms May was already offered a seat if she supported the coalition.

If by assigning these seats now he weakens the coalition then so be it. As PM he has to do what is necessary to protect his job and his country.

I don't see it as going back on his word. I see it as reacting to the situation at hand and any PM in his situation would do it. I am sure Mr. Harper will have a clause saying that should the elected senate pass that the ones he assigns will have to step back until duly
elected.

Besides, so what if he does this. At least he did not steal from EI to make it look like he paid down the debt.

Who is a liar now? Eh Libs?

I wonder if 20 more Liberals filled the Senate, would they still be bitching and complaining? Doubt it.

Bill
said

Mr. Harper has tried many times to bring in an elected Senate , but it has been blocked by the same and by some provinces. He has been unable to move this issue ahead because of the resistance, so has basically decided rather than have a ineffective senate has done what was his his right and that which he has prolonged doing too long.

John Calgary
said

What was the Liberal motivation? What an idiotic question. Motivation. Every party has the same motivation for this. Is Sen. Wilfred Moore simply that stupid? If this question for him is one of the deep mysteries of life, then he should resign. Geez, you just wouldn't want to minimize a Liberal "anything" in this country would you?

Tom Buchanan - Coaldale AB
said

I applaud the move by the prime minister to try to get the upper chamber more functional. I'm very concerned by the comments of the critics who still seem to be on a prime minister bashing program instead of listening to the people of this country that want them to work together on the economy and other more pressing issues. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

M M B Ont
said

Mr Harper should go ahead and fill the Senate seats immediately as he definately has the right to do so. He is still our PM. The Opposition parties have over the last two years opposed anything this PM has tried to do. The Liberals under Dion walked out of voting over 40 times. This makes it very difficult for anyone to govern no matter who the person is as PM. These are the actions of sore losers in the NDPers and the Liberals alike and they are making a complete mockery of our Gov't. All those bashing Harper better get your facts straight here. You probably have not cast a vote in years !
What we need in Canada as soon as possible is another election to give Mr Harper his majority so that Canada can move on during these hard times that are coming upon us. Without a Conservative majority we are left with a dysfunctional gov't because the NDP have a Hate on for Conservatives and are bringing it to Parliament and the Liberals feel they have a Constitutional 'RIGHT" to keep screwing the Taxpayers. Sponsorship scandal , EI are just a couple of examples. Give this elected Gov't a chance to prove themselves and Canadians will decide at the polls at the end of their term !
NDP and Liberals say they have lost the confidence of the Gov't over what?? The suggested removal of the $1.95 per voter to the Parties from the Taxpayers?? Pathetic Mr Layton and Liberals ! Well Canadians have long lost the confidence of the NDP and Liberal Gov't and that is why we elected a Conservative Gov't !

Ronald in Toronto
said

Appointing senators is what PMs do. It's part of the job. And until the PM can gain the cooperation of the other parties (namely: Liberals), there will be no elections for The Senate.

The lack of knowledge and background understanding of a number of bloggers here sometimes staggers me.

To think: These same people have the vote... and many also have car keys.

Bryan-Edward Taylor
said

Bryan-Edward Taylor, Saskatoon

Finally, Harper is making these appointments. I know he wants Senate reform, and frankly, so do I.

But he isn't, however, going to get anything passed as long as the Liberals control the body. And in the event that the fraudulent Coalition takes power, their not going to fill the Senate with people who believe in Democratic Reform.

No, in the long run, it's better Harper fills them up now, and gets it over with.

Jody in Moncton
said

The real issue is Harper making a statement of intent, and then changing his mind, he does it over and over and over, when will the Honorable Prime Minister admit that he is only telling us what he thinks we need to hear to get re-elected.

Pip
said

Lets face it: the law as it stands requires that the prime minister is responsible for appointing senators. The are 18 vacancies asnd he is acting responsibly by bringing the numbers to the correct level. However, it does not change the liberal majority.

Yes, Harper wants an elected senate: but until the Liberals and NDP agree to a change in the constitution - and when it comes to the provincial agreements ESPECIALLY the agreement of Ontario and Quebec - they will have to put up with Harper a) obeying the requirements of the law; and b) doing exactly as the liberals did when they were in power -stacking the senate with the party faithful.

Sauce for the goose etc, though in this case with a side of sour grapes!

Jennifer
said

I am amazed that so many people are "attacking" what the Liberal Senator is saying in regards to the PM appointing new senators. Readers have it correct when they say that the PM can appoint Senators just like the previous PM's have. However, the point that the Senator is raising is that Harper has made himself very clear that the Senate should be an elected body rather than an appointed body. In this case, regardless of the rationale, he is clearly going against something he has stated and believed in from the beginning. My concern is that if the PM is willing to change his view on this point, what other stances that he has taken is he going decide to change/alter? Do I believe that the Senate works and is fair in its current manner? No, but I don't think the answer is to appoint new Senators at this point in time. Let's deal with the economic issues first and then move forward with potential changes.

Common Cdn
said

What the news isn't telling us is that the PM will ensure that these Senators only stay in Senate for a maximum of 8 years. He does not want to go the way of status-quo by having the Senators retire at the age of 75. He still wants to have an elected Senate. I, quite frankly, don't blame the PM for filling the seats with Tory members - so long as he is moving towards an elected Senate. This is something that the 'coalition' should work with the PM.

Maureen
said

This guy isn't elected so I don't care what he says. Did he support any of the reforms suggested by the government? (Liberal senator - probably not). Since the Liberal dominated senate has blocked any reform the only option for Harper is to start increasing the number of conservative senators and when there are finally enough, the senate will be reformed. Harper has tried to get reforms through since he was first elected but has been blocked by the Liberals.

Mr.Bill
said

Unbelievable! Mr. Harper wants to reform the Senate with currently 22 Conservatives to 58 Liberal political appointees, but he is facing a vote of non-confidence that could be blocked by a Liberal minority. If he does not appoint those empty seats then he leaves it wide open for any Liberal-lead coalition to fill those empty seats with Liberal loyalists. This is not a Harper about face, but a tactical move in response to realpolitik. For him to leave these seats open during a transfer of power would be simply giving the Liberals a gift on a silver platter. We are not to believe they would in good conscious carry on reforms started by the Conservatives. Please wake up and see things as they are and not through your partisan glasses. Canada deserves better.

don-caledon
said

What are the liberals worried about they still have the majority in the senate? Is that not their goal? With the senate they can govern without winning an election. Maybe with a few sober second thougths there, they might catch SPONSORSHIP SCAM & EI SCAM before it happens?

SKite in AB
said

Let's look at it this way:

If Harper doesn't appoint more Conservative Senators, how in the heck is Senate reform legislation ever going to get passed?

Geez, the Liberal's had a hissy fit over their 1.95/vote - think they will give up the Senate entitlements easy?

Nick in Gatineau
said

To Tom,

It wasn't just the Senate who blocked it, the Provinces as well because in order to reform the Senate, it must be done through the Constitution, thus a moidification. The Provinces said no, the senate said no, the House said no. aka. The People of Canada Said NO.

A coalition is legal under our democratic system. If they do get in and they choose to appoint someone, so be it. It is the privilege of the PM.

How about we change that to an independent nomination committee from each Province ? Each with it's own independent committee ? No Partisan Politics, No Card carriers allowed on the list. !!!

You can't remove all forms of partisanship but you can minimize it.

Start there.

Walker
said

My my, how very Liberal-like of Stephen Harper to stack the senate :) Difference is Harper tried to fill Senate seats in a more fair and representative balanced way. He was blocked every time he presented senate reform by the Liberals. The Liberals on the other hand stacked the Senate just because they felt entitled to. The Liberals and their coalition cronies have left him no choice. Now all the Liberal finger pointers are going to twist it to make it sound like Harper went back on his word. He didn't go back on his word, your party blocked it. Quit trying to put this on Harper. Geez, bet it's his fault we had a snow storm in Ottawa this week too. By the way, how about that illegal Liberal Employment Insurance scam ?

Jared Nolan
said

Liberal entitlement? This is the same Prime Minister who purports to be the champion of having an elected, accountable senate?

Let's not be hypocritical and actually have some political courage here.

I mean this is quite the convention to appoint senators in the Westminster model, but as the past weeks have shown, I have little faith in our electorate's knowledge of fundamentals regarding our basic institutions. Seems a little hypocritical at the end of the day, to go on about "liberal entitlement" and then to appoint 18 conservative senators in a hurry.

Let's not be cowards, call it what it is, and have the capacity to act. Resorting to denigrating the other side and resorting to mere insults does not add to your argument but rather shows a lack of understanding. I believe they call that ignorance - and quite frankly, it's embarrassing. Debate the issues, with reasoned dialogue and decorum.

Nick in Gatineau
said

Elected Senate translates to Partisan Politics.

Nominated Senate translates to Partisan Politics.

What's the difference ?

Why not simply name judges and lawyers who are not card carrying members of any party and have never contributed to a political party ?

Then the Senate could actually do what it was meant to do instead of simply towing the partisan line.

That would be accountable.

Elected senators would simply fall into the same black hole we are in now where our choice of politicians is rather thin. Imagine for Senate seats !!!

No to Elected Senators.

Glynn in NB
said

good or not good for the senate is not the issue, it is whether our prime minister has any sense of ethics whatsoever. This is the move of a weasel. Where are the real PCs and why aren't they speaking up? They should because this guy is going to have the party decimated in ways even Mulroney couldn't accomplish.

Dane
said

I find that funny because I was told by a liberal senator that he "wouldn't mind if harper filled the vacancies with Conservatives" so it really is a stunning change to see one liberal senator speak out against this while another has spoken in support.

Mel from Calgary
said

If Harper wanted elected senators to fill the vacant positions; why didn't he hold elections over the past two years in provinces where there were openings?

Tom Hawley
said

Mr.Harper has the right to fill vacant senate seats.This is no different than past PM's having the authority to do so.
The difference is the circumstances.Mr.Harper , and I might add,for political posturing only did he pushed the idea for an elected senate.In the throne speech he stated that change is needed to be a senator.
Would it not be a good public move to back up his words by action? Mr.Harper should leave them vacant.This would or should gain him some public support for his actions .
For those that did or will post that a Liberal PM would fill the upper chamber so be it.This is about Mr.Harper's actions not what another would do.
Patronage is patronage.
Mr.Harper wanted to prorogue parliment to get "his" house in order.Or did he tell the GG he needed the time to get the house next door in order with pals?
It will be interesting to see how many use the "c" word when supporting Mr.Harper.
Constitutionally he has the right to appoint as constitutionally the opposition has the right to form a government.Do not be bias and chose when you want the constitution to be used. If Mr.Harper is incapable of running the government from within, he should not be playing PM from the outside.

Mike S St. John's Newfoundland
said

Isnt Harper on a 2 month paid Vacation....how is he gonna find the time to do this?

Jacqueline
said

Based on the current political climate, Harper would be stupid not to fill the senate seats.

Paul in SJ
said

Wow, what a surprise. The Liberals oppose to the Conservatives naming Conservatives to the Liberal-controlled senate?

It is unfortunate that the senate acts like a poorly managed kindergarten. Until someone has the ability to mandate Senate reform I think we are stuck with a broken system.

Senators, stop acting like children and get to work. We pay your salaries and benefits, we expect something in return other than partisan bickering and blocking progress so you can keep your patronage appointments.

Tom
said

For the record:

- Harper tried to senate reform. The LIBERAL-DOMINATED SENATE BLOCKED IT!

- Harper must now fill the vacant 18 seats with appointees, because otherwise the Lib/NDP coalition will do it; those guys certainly aren't going to hold an election.

Matty
said

Who really cares about the motivation for doing it. Have the Libs ever cared about "motivation" while they stacked the Senate in their favour other than to make sure that they are able to control the passage of Bills out of the house and with forethought of ensuring when they weren't in power perhaps preventing other bills from being passed. What the PM does with Senate appointments is totally up to him as it has been with all PM's. Personally I think he should install his Senate members as soon as possible as it seems the rest of the government will not allow him to ammend the way Canada's senate works. That being the case he should exercise his right to appoint and try to put some balance in the senate. There are far to many Liberal Senators for the Senate to do it's business impartially.

Bakedpot8o
said

Did you read the article Dennis? It says he would be happy with appointments made; and to think Harper would appoint anybody other than Conservatives, well I say you simply do not follow our Prime Minister's action very closely.

To point out Harper's about face on the topic seems to be more the issue here.

Besides, an elected Senate would only pave way for the highly partisan not to mention extremely expensive elections that take place to our south. I think Senate members should be veted by all parliamentarians, whom we elect, and whom we should have utmost confidence in collectively choosing worthy candidates.

Also, I dont think there should be term limits at all. If these are our best policy makers, judges, laywers and leaders, why would we want to limit their time in an extremely important body of our democracy? Throw the bumbs out if they skip a certain number of votes... but dont limit them to 4 or 8 years; it just is lacking any common sense.

Bernadette/windsor
said

Mr. Harper's Government is not going be dying in days because the majority of Canadians want him to govern. PM have to do what he needs to do to get Upper Chamber to function. Mr. Harper was Elected by Canadian people so tha is not power grab. The desperation comes from the oppositions that want to grab the power from the Conservative Government 2 weeks after they were Elected. Mr. Harper is only doing what he can to get the Chamber to work. Jack Layton got to go he is just waisting tax payer money. Jack Layton's job's title is TROUBLE MAKER. We don't need trouble makers in the Parliament making all that money.

MHB
said

For me, it does not really matter whether the appointed senators are conservatives or Liberals. What is shocking is that our PM, who always supported having elections for the upper chamber, violates his principles in such a terrible way. I hope really that supporters of Mr. Harper should start questioning his integrity!.

Brian Nelligan
said

I agree that the senate should be elected. But the liberals do not, and if they gain power in a coalition you know they will put Liberal and maybe NDP people in the 18 seats. So by Harper doing it 1st only makes sense. Every PM who feels that he or she is going to loose fills the empty seats with patronage appointments. Until the house and senate agree that an elected senate is the way to go, it should be filled with government supporters. You didn't see Chretien puting in NDP, PC or independant people in the senate for 13 years. I'll gladly take a senate seat from the PM and agree to step down if the day comes for an elected senate.

Steve Mann
said

So Harper filling seats he was supposed to fill two years ago, as his constitutional duty as Prime Minister, is wrong?

It's either 18 senators to balance power in a Liberal heavy senate from the days of endless Liberal entitlement, or the possibility of 18 MORE Liberal senators from a new era of Liberal entitlement.

Jay, Ottawa
said

Dennis - Sudbury, Ontario said, "So a Liberal Senator doesn't want to see any more Tory Senators in a Liberal-heavy Senate. I'm so surprised."

Did you even read the article? The first paragraph includes, "plan to pump 18 Conservative loyalists into vacant Senate seats is good for the effectiveness of the upper chamber". He said nothing about not wanting to see Conservative senators.

BMN
said

Dear Dennis & "Liberal entitlement": Learn to read. The first Liberal senator wasn't saying that putting Tory senators there was bad, he was saying that it was disingenuous to be claiming to do it for the better of the chamber when he had six months to do it (when his gov't *wasn't* in danger) and didn't do it. The second Liberal senator simply stated it was against the Tory platform. Are either of these criticisms unfounded?

And BTW, I'm a big fan of electing a senate and think the Libs had too easy of a time stacking the senate during their time in power. I'm not disagreeing on that front. I just hate it when people have kneejerk reactions to headlines without reading the article that goes with it.

Jay, Ottawa
said

Harper turned out to be a hypocrite? Holy crap if we can't trust politicians who can we trust?

Seriously though, Harper is an opportunist like any politician. He likely used this Senate reform talk in the past simply to differentiate himself from the Establishment. Whether he meant it or not, well, we now have the evidence.

Stop abusing the system
said

Another mistake that will cost us millions and does nothing to improve our situation.

It's purely abusing the system.

Harper has not learned from his passsed mistakes, I see

Hypocritical Liberals
said

So Harper is being ridiculed for soing something the Liberals have done for years, obviously the Liberals have stacked the Senate for years with their people and look what happens. Nothing gets done and half of them haven't even stepped foot on Canadian soil for years. Its about time there was a change. It's amazing how the Liberals will always take an issue and try and make Harper look like the bad guy but when they are in power all these things are perfectly fine. The Liberals have always been hypocritical, and nothing is ever going to change.

Gregory Boudreau
said

We need to remind the senator
that this practice has gone on for many years iregardless who is in power, the Governing Party always puts in "it's own".
Wheather they are Liberals, Conservatives etc..and as for the motive, I also need to remind the Senator, every Governement has different agenda's that need to be passed, and one way is to put in your own, iregardless the motive.

Mel from Calgary
said

To change the senate requires constitutional reform.

Harper is forgetting what happen the last time a conservative prime minister opened constitutional talks.

If he wants to make parliament more democratic then right now he can ensure each riding within a province has the same number of voters ending the lack of urban representation.

Dave Sauter
said

Dave
The Senate as we know it needs to go away. In its place one that can be effective, elected, and equal for all of the provinces. As it is nothing can be done to worsen its reputation or status.

Liberal 'entitlement' continues to rear its head
said

Do they seriously think we are going to listen to a Liberal appointed Senator criticize the Prime Ministers "motivation" to fill Senate vacancies which is his constitutional democratic duty and right?

There is no end to the gall these Liberals have. Their insatiable lust for power knows no bounds whatsoever.

It's too bad Canadians deserve better from an opposition than these entitled driven Liberals who have cheated, stole and squandered our resources whenever they were in power yet they continue to demand their right to govern. They lost the moral right with the Sponsorship scandal the last in a long line of scandals while in power just a few years ago. They haven't learned their lessons as yet.

Dennis - Sudbury, Ontario
said

So a Liberal Senator doesn't want to see any more Tory Senators in a Liberal-heavy Senate. I'm so surprised.