Officials approve auto aid package worth about $3.3B

The White House revealed it may step in to save a multi-billion dollar bailout for the struggling U.S. auto sector, meanwhile north of the border, the federal and Ontario governments have agreed on a plan of their own for Canada's auto industry.

CTV Toronto: Paul Bliss on auto aid rolling in for Ontario

Ottawa will provide 3.5 billion dollars in help to the Canadian auto sector. Paul Bliss reports.

CTV News Extended: Minister Tony Clement details the bailout plan from Toronto

The Canadian government will provide a lifeline worth about $3.5 billion for the struggling Canadian auto sector, but the money won't flow until the U.S. approves its own bailout package, Industry Minister Tony Clement said Friday.

CTV News: Fred Lazar, Schulich School of Business

The defeat of the auto bailout bill by the U.S. Senate has opened the door for the Canadian government to negotiate with the U.S. government to form a plan.

CTV Newsnet: NDP MP Brain Masse on building stability in the auto sector

According to CAW President Ken Lewenza, its not about further concessions from the CAW, but how the companies themselves are mismanaged.

CTV Newsnet: Chris Buckley, CAW Local 222

The UAW has already given back huge wage concessions to GM, but those changes have not been implemented, and th CAW says they want to be part of the solution in Canada.

CTV Newsnet: CAW responds to the failure of U.S. Big Three bailout package, part one

Ken Lewenza, the president of the CAW, holds a press conference to respond to the failure of U.S. Big Three bailout package and takes questions about how this will affect Canadian auto workers.

CTV Toronto: BNN's Linda Sims analyzes Friday's dramatic developments in the auto sector.

BNN's Linda Sims analyzes Friday's dramatic developments in the auto sector.

CTV Newsnet: Bernie Wolf, Schulich School of Business, on what's next for automakers

While there is a lot of confusion at the moment, it appears the U.S. Treasury will take action to assist the auto industry, at least until a new group of senators take their seats.

Watch: See all Videos in the Player

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Dec. 12 2008 8:35 PM ET

The federal and Ontario governments will provide a lifeline worth about $3.3 billion for the struggling Canadian auto sector, but the money won't flow until the U.S. approves its own bailout package, Industry Minister Tony Clement announced Friday.

Clement added that the funds are "contingent" upon the auto industry creating a plan for long-term viability, and he noted that the announcement is intended to send Washington a message that urgent action is necessary.

"What we're signaling here tonight ... is that we want to be part of the solution as well," Clement said in Toronto.

The fund falls short of the nearly $7-billion package which Ford, GM and Chrysler requested from Canadian leaders earlier this month.

"It is up to the automakers, with their parts suppliers and the unions, to work together on a long-term solution for their industry," said Clement.

"Governments can decide to help, but these decisions will only be made in the best interest of the tax payers."

The announcement follows a meeting Friday between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty in Ottawa where the two leaders hashed out a plan.

Clement said that he expected the "the American administration to come forward very soon" with an aid plan, and added the fund represents 20 per cent of the proposed US$14 billion dollar package in the U.S.

That plan was shot down by the U.S. Senate on Thursday, but there was still hope Washington could deliver some aid.

On Friday, the White House said it may tap into the US$700 billion banking fund to stop the "precipitous collapse" of the auto industry.

With General Motors and Chrysler on the brink of bankruptcy, the announcement marks a sharp policy reversal for the White House, which has previously said that the bank bailout money was off limits.

"A precipitous collapse of this industry would have a severe impact on our economy, and it would be irresponsible to further weaken and destabilize our economy at this time," said White House press secretary Dana Perino on Friday.

The U.S. Senate voted down a $14 billion proposal - which had bi-partisan support from President George Bush and congressional Democrats - after the United Auto Workers refused wage cuts.

But there seemed to be some confusion about which automotive sectors in Canada would in fact get government help.

Earlier in the day, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Ottawa is still working with the domestic industry, and he added that the defeat of the bailout in the U.S. would not hold up talks in Canada.

The announcement comes as the once-mighty Detroit automakers drift into increasingly perilous financial waters.

GM puts factories on hold

On Friday morning, General Motors confirmed that it will stop virtually all North American production in January. That would cut 250,000 vehicles from its first-quarter production schedule. In all, 21 factories across North America will be affected.

Chris Buckley, the president of the Canadian Auto Workers local 222, told CTV Newsnet that GM says the Oshawa, Ont., plant will shut down for about six weeks beginning in January. The shutdown would end in the middle of February.

But there will be some production at GM's plants in Ontario, GM spokesperson Stew Low told The Canadian Press.

"There's a lot of plants that are running at that time," Low said. "There's plants that have only part of January out of their schedule and some weeks in February and March. It's very dependant on customer demand."

At a press conference in Toronto Friday, CAW President Ken Lewenza said not all of Canada's car manufacturing plants will shut down at the same time or for a full month.

But Lewenza noted: "All of our plants -- as a result of the declining sales in the U.S. -- are facing unprecedented shutdowns."

He said all workers are facing "temporary layoffs," noting that Ottawa needs to step up and help car manufacturers.

Otherwise, he said, 300,000 or 400,000 Canadians dependent on the industry will lose their jobs.

"I believe if the Canadian government intervenes ... we can avoid this economic crisis in the auto industry," Lewenza said.

He said governments around the world are offering stimulus packages to help their economies and Canada needs to follow suit.

Meanwhile, Honda also announced on Friday that it's cutting more of its North American production due to lower demand. But the Japanese carmaker doesn't plan to layoff any of its 4,600 workers here in Canada. Honda says its plants in Alliston, Ont., will be reduced by 37,000 units by the end of March 31.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Scott
said

Now matter what happens there will be a lot of of CAW/UAW workers that become redundant. Let's face it, the BIG3 (can we stop calling them that yet?) have lost a ton of market share and they aren't going to get it back anytime soon, bailout or no bailout. They need to figure out how to be profitable with the market-share they have left.

Hopefully they can get rid of the arrogant I'm-entitled-to-everything-forever-because-nobody-can-turn-this-bolt-like-I-do types.

So what if we give $3.5B to this charity? Are people going to start ordering Impala's so we can keep Oshawa running in Jan/Feb?

Barry Letang
said

If the Harper was a legitimate, small-c fiscal conservative he would rely only on the market place and the bankruptcy process to restructure the auto sector rather than producing any kind of deficit by wasting tax dollars. How many times did we hear politicians in the 70s, 80s and 90s promise that their deficit spending was only �temporary� ?

A genuine fiscal conservative would acknowledge that the government must not reward bad decisions, made by incompetent executives who require a change in mentality, by providing auto companies with a bridge loan to nowhere. These same uncompetitive companies would be back with their hands out in six months for even higher subsidies, and will be forced into bankruptcy within a year anyway; thus the government would only be subsidizing failure.

An authentic fiscal conservative would apprehend that a change in the mentality of the executives in the union suites is mandatory if these companies ever expect to become competitive. Tough love is essential to make the union executives appreciate that auto workers� wages, benefits and legacy costs must be restructured to make them comparative to non-union auto workers. These union executives must recognize that these companies must be in a position where they can compete with non-union auto producers, and that the most appropriate formula to achieve this is through bankruptcy.

If our Prime Minister was a indisputable small-c fiscal conservative he would, under no circumstance, tolerate the country to return to a deficit position. A small-c conservative would cut the $230 billion budget by eradicating ineffectual programs, government assets and worthless crown corporations. He would then use the funds gained to lower the payroll tax which would put dollars into the hands of people who would immediately spend it.

Harper�s plunge to the extreme left by bailing out the auto unions, and creating a deficit are illustrations that legitimate small-c fiscal, social and judicial conservatives are not represented in his Conservative Party. Mass numbers of us will, therefore, remain in our homes next election day.

AZ
said

Lindsay,

So you're blaming everyone who bought a honda or toyota vehicle rather then a NA made vehicle????

If they built a good product, for a good price, then they would have done better in the market.

2 groups to blame,
first and foremost, the CAW/UAW. Secondly the corporations for having poor business models.

John Brauweiler
said

I am sorry I do not think we should bail them out they should have known that this was coming up the big three should have started years ago in down sizing cars and making cars that people can afford. I work for a Car parts manufacture making parts for all of the big three they car pull contracts from us in 30 days and they give the work to offshore company's and every year they demand that we give them 5 to 8% or the parts back to them it still costs the same well let one of them die ,that is just the way it goes out there I don't see them selling off all their stock to get cash flow ,sell off their stock then lets see how much they need , lets see the CEO and all the top guys get big pay cuts no way should they get any kind of stock and they should be giving back all they got for the last 4 years. Sorry No way should they get our money

WHO
said

In '07 the avg Canadian paid $39,000 in taxes from all sources.

$3.5 billion is all the tax dollars of 89,000 Canadians

WOW, that's big

Grant
said

If the public is expected to bail out the auto makers then their working agreement should be made public. Once the public actually sees the money that these semi-skilled people make their opinion may change as to their support.

Bob, from N.W. Ontario
said

Yes I hear everyone saying that a Bailout would only help Ontario. But nothing could be farther from the truth.

This will effect every Small Town across Canada by dealer base alone.

I do agree that without the USA's help throwing money at the Big 3, is useless. I do agree that both the UAW and CAW must make concessions, as well as white collar workers.

But the Auto makers did not cause the Credit Crisis, banks and investment firms did. Without companies building things that consumers want to purchase with credit, will the banks survive? No Banks would become little more than fancy Bus Depot Lockers, storing your cash. Banks need to offer credit to be viable, Consumers have to want something to purchase something on credit, Manufactures have to build something that the consumers wish to purchase.

Let follow USA's mistake of bailing out the Banks first, instead of the Manufactures first.

Greg - Oshawa
said

We keep hearing about this "fair trade" issue. I have a hard time accepting that other countries would want to buy the vehicles we product. In fact in many cases the Big manufacture a completely different vehicle for other markets and cannot bring them in the NA marketplace.

Fair trade is a union red herring to direct attention else where.

Joel Hamilton
said

Why would Canadians give money to American company's that should have gone bankrupt years ago. The Americans will not give our failing companies money!

Ford, Gm and Chrysler in Canada are American owned companies. Let the American government and American taxpayers save them. If we bail them out they will only fail in the near future. The best thing North America could do is let them go bankrupt.

We have been hearing about a recesion for far too long! If we (North America) wants to get back on our feet then bankrupt the auto industry and send North America into a DEPRESSION.

At least when ya call it by its real name there is nowhere to go but up!!!

Neil C.
said

Plain and simply the Canadian Automotive industry have priced themselves out of the market and this is attributed to poor management foresight, unrealistic salaries/benefits and products that consumers no longer have faith in. A government bailout for those earning far higher than the national average by those earning far less (Cdn. Taxpayers) is absurd, especially when the CAW and their members are unwilling to make concessions that might actually save their own jobs. Governments� excuse appears to be bail them out or pay more in EI benefits claims. What assurances are there that it won�t happen after handing over $3.5, effectively doubling the cost to taxpayers? Time to let them be and see where the chips fall.

Ken Ottawa
said

Ijust bought a new GMC Yukon Full size SUV fully loaded I drove comming home tonight in Ottawa's transit strike induced "traffic jam", for about 3 km's fuel consumed .... 0 That's correct it's a hybrid gas electric same as Toyota's hybrid technology ,they were developed jointly with Daimler and Chrysler and a few others. The vehicle runs on batteries until about 50 km or heavy acceleration etc My brother who works for GM in Oshawa was not aware of this model as are many others.People I think GM is going in the right direction but it should be investors not government that get the BIg Three through this .It's Darwinian capitalism lets not end up with another Edsel

Tim Guy
said

ok this bailout is rediculous. granted many people will lose their jobs and that i unfortunate, but seriously why should we(the taxpayers) pay for failing companies to stay open. if they had spent some of that expensive R&D on better, more fuel effecient, alternative fuel vehicles instead of building gas guzzeling, overloaded, poor quality vehicles maybe they wouldnt be in this situation. its a well know fact that GM has been re-branding vehicles with their own name since the early 90's at least. all of the new cars recently "produced" by GM are either toyotas or deawoo. and look at the FORD small vehicles...who makes most of their stuff? MAZDA so baically the only thing the big3 are doing is making trucks and false claims of alternative vehicles. let them go down. we would all be batter off inthe long run.

Belle
said

What an unbelievable waste of our money. The U.S. decides against a bailout so WE are putting up the money for American companies. Couldn't we have found a CANADIAN use for that money?

3.5 billion dollars GONE. Nobody wants a crappy product and 3.5 billion dollars is not going to change that.

Shawn From Ontario
said

Why should the taxpayer be responsible for bailing out businesses with failed business plans.

When the same big 3 were posting record profits did the taxpayer receive a dividend cheque?

Why are corporate profits privatized yet their losses are socialized?

Joe
said

A sheer waste of tax payers dollars-held ransom by those moronic unions and CEOs to build cars nobody wants to buy. The big three still don't get. As for you workers don't B.S us about how "hard" you people work-when mot of you never had to compete for a job. It is time you faced reality and "earn' your keep rather than producing usleless cars.

John Bruckman
said

What is happening to our country? Does everyone realize where this is probably heading? To me it all started from greed, but the question that remains to be answered is did it start from politicians in government, or from the workers trying to keep up with the goverments demand for survival. Once again we are losing sight of why humans are on this planet and I feel that man will eventually be heading for distruction.

Diane W. Oakville
said

The Opposition have a knife to Stephen Harper's throat, declaring they want him to bail out the unionized auto industry and other unionized workers. Now it looks as if he's being forced to do it against his will and against the will of ordinary Canadians. When it proves a disaster, the Opposition will turn around and put the blame on the Conservative Government. The unions are nearly as much to blame as the global economy for the mess they're in with their over-inflated
salaries and secure benefits. Instead of moaning about losing jobs, why don't they go out and create a job for themselves and make jobs for others like many small businesses do - the ones that are the backbone of Canada not the fat cats with their hands out for Canadians tax dollars. The world is changing - we don't want the cars you are making any more so why should we help you make more of them.

Dan
said

STIPULATE THAT THE AUTO COMPANIES STOP THE PRICE GOUGING OF CANADIANS AND OFFER PROPER PARITY PRICING!!

You can buy Hondas, Toyotas and Chryslers in the US far cheaper that here in Canada.

They need to be told the pricing should no longer be held higher by the bull "market size" statement. Thats simply an excuse to take advantage.

joel in alberta
said

poor decision canada, the only reason harper did that was to get the new liberal leader on board with harpers gov't so he wont be taken out of power.... 3.5 billion down the drain... everyone knows the big 3 will still go bankrupt in the future... damn i would have used 3.5 billion on people who really need it in this country

Sue
said

The auto industry needs to overhaul their entire operation, starting with salaries at the top. Executives should not be paid 1M or more a year when the company racks up deficets. Maybe its time for all the overheads to be redefined. I am in support of the govt offering a loan to help the industries, but not a bail out. Any govt aid should come after an industry overhaul. To be competitive the north american hourly overheads should be reduced to compete with other auto mfgs.

RT
said

I just can't believe it!! If they give them a cent I will NEVER buy a vehicle from the big three ever again, ever. I encourage everyone to do the same. What a crock. what happens to the little guy that conucts an honest buisness thats has or will be in trouble? Nothing! They have to do what everyone does, dig themselves out. I am incensed, and fuming. Absolute nonsense!

Ken
said

Why throw good money after bad?When is the last time anyone got excited buying a new car built here? GM has valid brands like Cadillac Corvette their truck line but after that ??The car companies and their unions can spend all the money taxpayers can throw at them but if they they dont develop a product someone will get excited about buying they will still go down,only they will have a lot more debt ,Taxpayers debt I say let them sink now restructure, develop new product (or keep developing new product),get costs under control (competitive labour)and try with private money to get things rolling

Mark
said

My next car will be a Kia Mini Van. Best bang for MY buck. Sorry big three. Maybe if your wages were less, your cars would be more affordable, and people would buy them....:)

Fortunate
said

To Edward Steers

As you well know and as many of the readers on here have pointed out, CAW/UAW are over paid for what they do. In order to pay $30,000 in income tax per you that you claim you add to the government it means your making very close if not slightly above $100,000 a year. How do I know this? Because I am a very very very fortunate person who makes close to $100,000/year and I still haven't paid $30,000 to the government.
All you've done is prove that you are way over paid, and alienated all those hard working Canadians who have to bust their hump everyday to bring home a yearly paycheck that is equal to what you pay in tax per year, who happen to be as educated or more educated than you.

Rod in Kenora
said

This is a sad day. Eastern Ontario Auto workers are valued more than NW Ontario and BC forestry workers. A very sad day indeed.

Craig - London
said

there is ZERO point to handing this money over until the parent companies are seeing the same kind of support at home... where the bailout was halted due to the uaw's refusal to bring compensation/benefits in line with other auto manufacturers in north america. the same should apply here. the companies (and their unions) have gotten fat off public consumption, and now they want to stay fat off public charity. that is not the way healthy business is supposed to run. let them fail - only then will real change be forced.

kjo
said

Hey Edward Steers - Auto Worker

No one is arguing with you about the costs of retiree packages. That is one of the big costs.

What people are angry about is the fact that your union leadership has stated that there is no way you will take a wage cut. I remember back in 81 / 82. At my company we all took at 20% wage cut to save jobs. No one got laid off.

Maybe people would be more sympathetic to your cause if you folks agreed to some kind of cutback - sort of your contribution to the solution.

In addition, the GM workers seem to pissed that they are going to be out work for 5 - 6 weeks in January and the company is only going to pay them 65% of their wages.

How many people out there would like to keep their jobs and get 65% of something instead of 100% of nothing.

No, the auto workers along with the auto execs are only thinking of themselves. Just like the banks kept the extra quarter point reduction in the prime rate - for themselves.

Maybe it is time for you to become part of the solution, not part of the problem.

john mac intyre
said

johnny in kitchener

Arlo Guthrie, Once Wrote A Song "I'm Changing My Name To Chrysler"...It Was So He Could Go To Washington & Get Some Free Money...That Was In The '70's.

It's Not Surprising The Unions Won't Take A Wage Drop...They Will When There On Pogie.

tom
said

I wouldn't bail out the auto industry. 3.5Billion amounts to 35,000 per 100,000 auto worker each. I would give those guys the money and ask them to start up a small business. Like shuffle snows, lawn care, sell hamburger or hot dogs in the business areas. You know it is the small businesses create jobs, not the big corps(e). Let someone in the private sector revive the big corps(e). At the same time let CAW renegotiate with the new owner of the corps(e)Canada would create a lot of entrepreneurs. The future of Canada will be vibrant after the economy turns around.

Tony B
said

The rich (CAW) get richer and the poor (me) get poorer.
I make about $10 an hour and now I wil have to help a guy/gal making $30 plus maintain his/her standard of living. I wish someone in governement would be concerned about my standard of living.
Somrthing is really, really wrong in this country.

Gavin
said

The CAW is saying that the Canadian Government needs to support the "Big 3" with a Canadian Taxpayer bailout. What good would it do if the parent company in the US fails? The canadian division would fall at the same time because it is owned by the US Big 3 automakers. No Canadian tax money should go to GM or Chrysler. Honda or Toyota is not asking for a penny, the Big 3 needs to learn a HUGE lesson. All good things must come to an end.

hohoho
said

let the big 3 go under.its there own fault.im from nwo and our forest industry was never saved by the liberal or pc government.all our plants are closed.no 1 cared and this has bin happining 4 over 5 years now.we have bin turned into ghost towns.screw southern ont and the golden horseshoe and the big 3. come to nwo and try and find a job.good luck.

Gurdeep Wakaluk Ajax ON
said

Can the unions really be so ignorant, short-sighted, arrogant, and puerile as to remain defiant in the face of a clear need to slash their wages and put an end to their policies which have resulted in the automakers dying a slow, painful death? Oh, right, I guess they can, because after all, they are unions.

Canada Goose Whistler
said

Thanks for nothing Harper!
First you tell canadians to gambling.
Then you tell us our economy is fine and close parliament.
Then you give 2.4 million in christmas presents to your 18 friends.
Now you want to throw away 3.5 billion into mismanaged business.
If were to read these articles the only ones that what this bailout are a handful of people building cars that no one wants to buy. I will never buy any of this junk. Please step down as PM you really suck!

RCR
said

Edward you are the exact reason we don't OUR tax dollars to bail out your company.You come with your hand out to the people of Canada and you throw slurs at someone making less than 30 dollars an hour(Walmart employees).I make more than 30 but I went to work in a scientific field.What was this great qualification you had to get the job. You could turn a bolt.All I can say is get use to 15 dollars an hour.

Robert Edmonton
said

Why is my Tax money going to help a business??? Is the government smoking pot?

Ron
said

CALGARY

Why should we pay for the big 3.We might aswell write a blank cheque to other industries aswell.If the big 3 start with the unions to get them out who needs unions they driven by GREED what I call the money power greed syndrome this is worse then a diseas.Unions where in 1930 to bring progress in the work force Now we don"t need them they overstepped there boundries.let them start with a normal wage like everybody else in the real world you don't need 50 to 100 to put a door on a car Why not give all car companies money Why should Canada bail them out I should ask for money I'm in trouble to what is the difference.

Mr. B.
said

Where do you draw the line here? What other industries, businesses etc. are licking their chops now waiting to get into line for some cash from the government?
The auto industry is paying the price for years of mismanagement, poor products & extravagant employee wage & benefit packages.
I hope the government really keeps close tabs on where, how & when this bailout money is being spent.
Don't like it.

James T.
said

Join the BOYCOTT of the Big 3!

If the government is going to squander three-thousand, five hundred million dollars of OUR money to wipe the union's bums with, they neither need nor deserve out business.

Carl
said

We are in a damn if we do and damn if we don't situation. The bail out I don't agree with unless there is a way of appointing financial auditors to work on site and review cost expendatures. The Union really needs to GO. This is partially why we are in this situation. Fat cats need to be released from their plush chairs. If my P&L statements are not showing positive growth and stability I have to answer for them. If it continues I have to look at closures.
My own financial planning for my retirement has taken its toll with the economy. I am starting to see myself working into my 70s. Can I get a personal bail out for my losses in retirement investments.

David
said

First and formost..the CAW workers make way too much money.......they don't deserve my tax dollars to keep them working.

Christopher Linstead
said

So much for free enterprise, individual responsibility and the elimination of corporate welfare. We've just witnessed the lack resolve of both the U.S. and Canadian Governments when it comes to upholding these espoused values.
However, in defense of the Conservatives, they have been pinned by an opportunistic opposition into taking this $3.5 billion public relations exercise. Thank you Liberal Party of Canada, NDP and Bloc for continuing the tradition of tarnishing the reputation of the political profession.

Bruce Nicholson
said

As a former Auto worker of 14 years, We were told back in the 70's that GM needed to change the way it did it's business and products lines. They were told it they didn't they would not stay #1 in the market--Now Toyota is #one in this industry ( just opening a new plant in the mist of all this)because they did changed with the times.GM ,continued to build outdated models . They can holler made in Canada but most of the parts for these cars have been outsourced to other Country's like Mexico. Unless deep concessions are taken by union workers why should our tax dollars go to pay for their high paying jobs?

Canadians should know that without a U.S. bailout Canadians would be throwing money to the wind.Bad business close and new ones open everyday- sometimes its better to start over than to throw a temporary bandage on a failing business .If the U.S. does not get their bailout their parts plants will close -- these are the same plants that supply the Canadian Plants .How then can the Canadian plants stay opened with no parts?I think that this money would be bettered used else where - to stimulate the economy. The auto industry is all one - G.M. has 40% shares in Toyota! Most of the cars built here are sold in the U.S. and they have no money- you do the math.

The unions should agree to bailout
said

if a few billion dollars are tossed directly at working people, not just at over-indulged corporate fat-cats who are using the current global economic downturn as an excuse to suck of the government.

Confused in Alberta
said

The price of oil has fallen. Maybe the big oil companies deserve some money too...

Oh, and the hockey players need a bailout too...

Oh, and don't forget all of those lawyers...

Manfred
said

The question boils down to this:
Does it make sense to tax someone who makes $15 an hour and give the money to a CAW guy who makes $30 an hour.

jimmy
said

I have to say that I am sympathetic to the families affected by this. However they the workers have to blame A there Unions For the huge salerys which has put the price of tehre cars out of reach. Also there cars SUCK Why would i pay 20,000 for a car that i know is gonna be recalled 2 or 3 times and will probalbly die after the warrenty which is also crap will expire. Sorry boys but your poor products crappy desings and high priced crap has done this to you....your execs have screwed us for years noww they want us the tax payers to bail them out i say NOT unless the unions agree to a wage decrease for not only the line workers but especialy the execs

Bailouts for people, not for corporations
said

The people can invest or establish new corporations.

Edward Steers
said

I'm an autoworker who apparently makes $70/hour, though I only see less than half of that on my paycheck. Do you know how the creative accountants come up with the figure of $70/ hour. They take the amount they pay out in pensions paid to all retired workers divided by the number of people actively employed and tack that figure onto our wage package. So all you people who work at walmart, expecting me to work for walmart wages too, that will do little to make GM more competitive because these foreign transplant companies have no retirees to pay for. What you don't seem to realize in your jealous rage is our collective labour costs less than %7 of the cost of a new vehicle.

So if I lose my job at GM, how many of you walmart employees will it take to make up the $30,00.00 /year in income tax I pay to the government every year.

I applied for a job at GM like every one else and I was qualified enough to get hired, and if you didn't well I'm truly sorry. If GM fails I'll be looking for another job, as probably will a majority of you. We may even apply to the same job. We'll see who gets hired then.

Be very careful what you wish for.

Merry Christmas to all.

Brett in Alberta
said

Please note, that when ever anybody says, "other countries are offering stimulus packages" it is never mentioned that they are giving money to their own automotive industry. Could this be because their automotive industries are doing just fine?

I think the federal government needs to think long and hard about this money, Liberals, NDP, Bloc and Tories, all of them. They are opening Pandora's box if they give money to this industry.

So what happens if this money doesn't help the automotive industry? Then we have pumped billions of dollars into it and we are still left with thousands who are unemployed. This is the start of a true global meltdown if money is spent in this fashion.

The governments job is suppose to be to help the people not the industry. This industry is going down no matter how much money they throw at it. $3.5billion would be able to send 140,000 people to college to get a two year degree. ($12,500 per year, same as any grants or student loans, just make it they don't have to pay it back if they graduate).

DO NOT give the automotive industry this money, retrain the people, that is your job.

Lynda
said

How do you justify this type of bailout to the single mom of two working for minimum wage at the Tim Horton's counter when her taxes are assisting the car makers pay their employees four times what she is making? Disgusting, repugnant, ridiculous! And these North American cars are crap to boot!

Dennis
said

I have never bought a big-3 vehicle and will never buy one! My hard-earned tax dollars have just been flushed down the crapper to prop up three floundering companies that have lost their competitive edge to better organized companies making better vehicles while paying staff reasonable wages.

A pox on the big three!

Justin
said

I definately don't agree that a bailout is the proper way to deal with struggling automakers. There is a reason they are in this type of situation, and it has been going on for a very long time. They continue to make more money year after year and continue to make cheap cars and trucks. The manufacturers idea of making fuel efficient vehicles is to make hybrid Yukons. Give your head a shake, and make smaller cars that people can afford. It's volume that makes you money. Autoworkers are overpaid and most of them are not skilled workers, just repetitve workers. Look at the foreign automakers, they are successful and make quality vehicles that are meant to last not meant to be at the dealership being maintained, repaired, recalled..etc. What needs to be done is reduce all their wages. If they don't like that then they lose their job, Its better to still have a job and make money instead of being on the streets unemployed. This should have been addressed since day 1. NO BAILOUT MONEY FOR THEM.

Rod
said

Why doesn't the CAW invest their pensions in the companies as well as taxpayers? If it is a loan they will be paid back as well and the workers could ask for a seat on the board so they have some say in future product offerings and gain some security for their jobs as well. I am not a fan of unions at all but we have to think outside the box as a loss of this many jobs would stress the economy. Workers could take a reduction in hourly rate in exchange for profit sharing once the business's turn around.They will have a direct impact on the survival of their employment and with the union investing it would show Canadians they believe in their survival.

PM
said

These workers are tax payers themselves. It is a loan that will be repaid; hence cut your bitching about them having to take a pay cut. They need to re-invent their product and do a much better job of managing their business.

helen in Toronto
said

I knew THE DEAL will fall!

The whole thing is about POWER!

Union members wants to control the company. The C.E.O. wants to control the company. The Congress wants to control the vote. Now President Bush wants to be the HERO and sign ANYTHING to LOAN the money out - afterall he will out of his office in less than 30 days and it is NOT his money - he DOESN'T give a DAM!

As for the C.E.O. - has to be REPLACED!

As for the union members, they listened too much and too long for the Union Leader. Has been brain washed from those guys!

Time for EVERYBODY to wake up! Business won't pick up if you don't redeuce COST - and consumer also NEED a job - a paycheque in order to APPLY for a CAR LOAN!

All comes around in a circle. The whole system has to be changed once and for all. Everybody has been SPOILED for too long.

Now we all waiting for President Obama to sit down on January, 2009. Give him a pen to SIGN - everything will be all right by then!

Ain't we all proud of Stephen Harper! He DID NOTHING but observe! Can you all picture what will happen if Liberal or N.D.P. in charge INSTEAD?! They will be so egaer to SIGN and GIVE OUT OUR MONEY and LOAN it them DAYS AGO - just try to proof that they are in control!

Good job, Harper - bu doing NOTHING and let everybody COOL down!

MRC in Hamilton
said

I don't understand what the Canadian government can "inject" money into? The Detroit-3 are AMERICAN auto corporations, not Canadian, we are at their mercy no matter what. I suppose we can inject into Magna, etc., our own parts makers...but what'll be the point if Detroit-3 jobs are meant to disappear at the will of the Americans and therefore there are less parts to be made here?...

Ultimately, we are at the mercy of the Detroit-3/Americans decisions. Maybe this is the time us Canadians realize that we should be engineering our own vehicles????...Hey, there's an idea!

Bob
said

It's time the BIG 3 had a good shake up. The union has been way over paid for too many years and don't want to give an inch. Well let see how much they make when they all loose there jobs because they would not give in and reduce there wages and benifits to save there jobs. If they go under I bet Lewenza will stilll be OK aye !!! Come on guys wake up before it's to late.

Aaron in Toronto
said

I spent a lot of time reading the comments here and I want to point out something else.

Why nobody would consider the result if the US or our government provide the money to bailout the Big 3? What would happen to the workers (which by the way is also taxpayers). So they keep their job and continue to produce product which no one would buy? (Please note, I am not referring to brand name and design but rather the US general public cannot afford to buy them anymore). Then what? More bailout?

I want my government to be more careful and responsible with my money. If we supply the loan and it would fix the problem then I say go ahead. However, if it is just to delay for a while and back to square one then let them fold. We have to deal with it eventually.

joel from alberta
said

most gm/chrylser/ford vehicles only last to about 150,000 km. i have seen imports last to 400,000 km. make one good vehicle that lasts, please and thanks.

oh and how sad is this, i had purchased a 2005 dodge dakota from a chrylser dealership, 13,000 km and it has been in the shop 3 times already, thank god i had warranty, however the one time it was in the shop for 3 weeks, and the gages/lights/cd player everything was turning off and on at random times. chrysler couldnt figure it out and told me get a lawyer and sue chrysler, customer service is pathetic!

oh and billions of dollars wont help the big 3, just a waste of money, people stop purchasing vehicles from them along time ago.

please dont waste tax payers money!

Drew in NS
said

I don't know about you but with all this turmoil in the auto sector. I wouldn't be buying a NA car right now. Last time I bought NA it was the end of a particular Caravan line. My floor boards leaked, my windows were not properly sealed and leaked, total lemon. When I took it in to get the warranty work done the Manufacture told me about being the last of a particular line and the workers don't put as much care and effort into the assembly!

Should we bail out the NA car industry? I wouldn't put to much care and effort into it!

You want to build a good NA car. Get rid of the unions, take the 1/3 pay decrease, and if your lazy, a screw up and untrainable find some other line of work.

DAN
said

Bankruptcy is the solution. It will force the automakers to deal with thier "sales" problem, which is the root of the problem.Bankruptcy will let other companies merge with them, which will offer (much needed) better management.

Chris
said

You know... just a thought:

What caused this global economic crisis??? Was it sky-rocketing oil prices that crashed "all of a sudden"??? Or is it the Auto Industry???

Hmmm, OIL...AUTO... hmmm sound too circumstantial doesn't it. Well let's see, we are in an economic war with Japan, China, India, Korea, Europe, and the Middle East. OPEC controls the world's oil supply, so they jack up the costs of oil to force people to stop buying cars. We stopped buying cars (especially cheap pieces of garbage from the Big 3) and we are in deeper.

Looks to me like we've LOST the economic war against the world, which means time to CHANGE PEOPLE!!!!

Albertan
said

I feel bad for the employees (and their families) of these Companies. Some of you people are heartless and need to examine the things you say.

Do these people make to much money to work on an assembly line? I do not know never done that job. I do know that we as North Americans over pay our work force as whole.

However wages should not be a concern $70/hour as an average is not that big of a wage. The employee is probably only getting $20 - $30/hour. For the people that are comparing this to wages of McDonald's employees and the like are way off base. These are career jobs not some after school part time gig. $20 - $30 per hour is not alot of money to support a family on. It is done though as I would say 85% of the country makes this. This is called middle class the back bone to our entire economy. To say that we should let 300,000 to 400,000 of these tax paying, comsumers be unemployed is absolutely outrageous. That would devistate our economy.

I can tell that some of the comments on here are from Albertans. I am an Albertan (that works in the Oil and Gas Industry)and I am embarassed of you people saying that they got themselves into this get themselves out. I can tell you this if the economy crashes we will be the hardest hit. We live like there is no tomorrow. Nobody actually owns anything, everybody is making huge wages living on borrowed money.

AG in Ottawa
said

The CAW is suffering from a false sense of entitlement. It's a business: If the product does not sell, you file for protection under Chap. 11 to give yourself time to re-group, build a revised, realistic business plan and sell it to creditors/investors. If it's good, they'll buy in; if it's crap, you shut down.

The CAW must understand that we are dealing here with US corporations. Whatever $$ we were to throw at them right now would be meaningless and wasted if they don't get the big donation from Washington. Even then, their big IOU will be to the US government and conditions of the hand-out may very well require the repatriation of their offshore operations.

Nick in Gatineau
said

I have a Honda civic and it drives great.

My family always had GM and all I can remember is recall after recall.

Did government do anything about the Hightech sector losing all those jobs ? NO.

Did government do anything to help Nortel ? NO.

N.A. Cars suck. The minimum is around 15 k (really worth 7 K) and sucks more gas than my civic - yet advertised as being more fuel efficient.

You sell cars for 25 K yet they are only worth 12 K.

Enough with the Union BS. When you strike, they do not pay your bills. BUT. The leaders have a 3000sq/foot home, 1 or 2 cottages, at least 2 cars/trucks, all the toys the grandkids love, and all the toys the adults love.

Oops. Thats the regular unionized Employee. Imagine what the union leaders have !!!

I lost my job a few years back to restructuring. It took 5 people to replace me -for nothing more than a salary and Pension dump.

Where was my bailout ?

I hope the Chinese come up with a 5 K car - which would be equivalent to a N.A. car that sells for around 18 K.

Tell your union rep to advertise what he has and force him to sell it on Ebay.

Enough with the bailouts.

If the big 3 go bankrupt, so be it.... Enough of this garbage.

Tell Harper to reverse his Income Trust Tax regulations if you want to kickstart the economy again.

Edwin from Toronto
said

GM can continue to make unreliable cars. Even nobody is buying, they can get the government fund anyway.
Thakns to the logic: "their collapse will affect a lot of people"
This is the reason we should send them all the money they need to keep the factory running.

chris
said

One thing i don't understand is that the big 3 were on the brink of going bankrupt before the decline of the economy, so why should the government bail them out. The big 3 were failing before the colapse of the economy and they will continue to fail with the bailout. Besides they'll probably use the bailout for their debt.

Greg
said

Let me say to those who don't think we need to help the auto industry. Remember where a lot of the tax revenue comes from......... the auto sector, if we don't help guess what you's will be picking up the tab. The auto workers make good money yes but they earn it too. (Have any of yous worked on an assembly line) try it and you will see. Maybe you should take a drop in wages or cut off your benifits see what you have to say then. Support Canadian Manufacturing. It's hard to find good work now a days.

Larry NL
said

Too bad Jack Layton isn't prime minister, the UAW would have any amount they wanted. That is part of Jack's agenda to put Canada into a deep deficit just like his buddy Mr. Rae, oh I forgot he's a liberal now.

Kris D
said

Judging by the comments on here, there's going to be a lot of angry people when King Harper bails out this industry - and he will.

Hopefully voters will punish him for not listening. Or will they spin like crazy to defend him?

We shall see�

Darlene in Halifax
said

I don't think anybody truly wants the Big 3 to fail or the NA auto industry to go belly-up. Most of us do understand the ripple effect so stop presuming we are stupid just because we do not support a bailout without concessions on the part of workers (and mgmt, etc.). The biggest problem is that most of us can see how they brought this on themselves. Money, with no change on their part, is just a bandaid and isn't going to help.

It is not just the economy that has caused this. All three NA automakers have been badly misreading the market for at least the last 10 years. While foreign carmakers went towards hybrid technology and smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles (and higher sales), the brains at the Big 3 built Hummers and Excursions, subsidized by ill-thought-out tax credits on large vehicle purchases in the US (GWB strikes again). People keep saying it takes years of R&D and can't be done overnight - foreign automakers saw this, why couldn't NA automakers? The Big 3's reaction - cut back costs in the form of quality and put out an inferior product. Resale values attest to this, along with all the service problems. Nobody wants their cars!

Foreign automakers are suffering slumping sales, too, but they're not laying off workers (Cdn workers, too, by the way) and they're not crying for help. This tells any rational person that the problem goes much deeper than the economy. Drastic, fundamental changes need to be made at all levels if they are to survive - throwing money at them isn't going to help. They will still fail, maybe gasping along for another few months, but they will take our tax dollars with them when they go.

Barry Tucker
said

I worked in a BC pulp mill, Pope and Talbot, Harmac, for 32 years.
When we asked for government help, it was thanks for asking but forget it.
Pope and Talbot went bankrupt but the employees and 3 investors bought the Harmac pulp mill for $13 million.
The Harmac employees took cuts, invested their own money into the company ($25000 per employee).
Harmac is now up and running.
If the 250000 auto workers are serious about saving their companys, maybe they should follow the lead the Harmac workers set and invest their own money.

Charles B.C.
said

You should add the important and missing fact in your statement about the White House taking over the bailout. The money they would need to tap into has restrictions on it's use, placed there by congress and congress has to approve any change from the use it was intended for, which brings us back to square one.
A little note to the people frothing at the mouth about Canadians buying 'what they call' foreign cars. Ignoring the fact that all cars in Canada are foreign, those foreign cars, just like the other foreign cars, being referred to as domestic are built in Canadian factories employing Canadian workers,which incidentally all seem to be riding the storm without lay-offs. Does that tell you something?

David Chan
said

I will not buy a union-made vehicle and I doubt that I'm alone. End of story.

Larry NL
said

The CAW works for American owned companies that are on the verge of bankruptcy and they want Canadian tax payers to bail out these American firms. Where will this bail out money go? How will it be spent to ensure employment of auto makers in Canada who are making cars that no one can afford or don't want?
Why will the CAW members not take cut backs in wages and benefits?
The CAW is the main reason why I won't buy a Ford, GM, or Chrysler product again.
If the big three could get rid of the UAW/CAW, they would probably get my support.
I have worked under 2 different unions in my time and I got more support from my employer than I ever did from the union that kept taking my hard earned money.

Garry in NS
said

To Rocket:

Where did you get your facts? I am a Federal Public Servant and I can assure you that the majority of us earn less than $49,000.00 a year and we don't all drive volvos. We earn on average less than $25.00 per hour - a far cry from the auto workers! Oh yeah, we also pay taxes.

Conor in Edmonton
said

I really would like to purchase a North American automobile when I purchase my next vehicle. That is one of my major deciding factors. However there is absolutly nothing that appeals to me. Nothing thats really that good on gas (the newly touted Malibu with "awesome mileage" is still unimpressive). Maybe the Chevy Volt but thats still long off and they will probly end up killing that like they did the electric car. I think I may just have to buy a Jetta as it has everything I want (looks, turbo, and a good price). I can say for a fact if any North American car could compete I would buy it in a second but it's just a case of the auto industries failing to understand there own consumers. They tried to tell us what to buy and now they will suffer the consequenses of decades of horrible business and engineering decisions. Regardless of what the government does they are too far behind the times and expectations of consumers. P.S. Regardless of how much they make the unions are just as much responsible, for not being willing to consider any type of cuts. They will lose there jobs because of it.

Brian
said

I want to know the actual amount of foreign content that makes up ALL vehicles sold in North America. It should be included on the Price Label. From what I'm reading, Big 3 products actually have less domestic content than vehicles from Toyota and Honda sold here.
If I buy Big 3 -- and I always have -- am I really buying North American?

Tracy Williams-Witherden
said

Today is not a good day. I am about to be "temporarily" laid-off. I work at a company that supplies the big three with air conditioning components. IF I get called back, I will be taking a 10% wage cut in February. I DO NOT make the big bucks that auto manufacturers make. We are a non-union company. Do I think this is fair? NO WAY!!!! I deserved the wage I was earning. I can't read a newspaper, drink a coffee etc. while I am working. I am not for/against unions. People do deserve good paying jobs/benefits. $26/hr (give or take) is not reasonable!!!! Management should also be forced to take pay-cuts!!!! We all have to give a little so EVERYONE will benefit. If you CAW employees don't, you won't have a job. A lesser paying job is better than no job. I have to live with it and so can you!!!

John ONT
said

If the goverment is going to give free tax payers money to the auto industry. Then the auto industry should give the tax payers a free car. Iam sure everyone one could use a new free car. Also when the auto industry makes a profit they should send everyone a part of the profit, checks is in the mail YA RIGHT! Lets make everyone Happy......

Ernest Kovosi
said

Maybe its time for the CEO'S and managers to feel the pinch as the CAW members have in the past. They should be regulated to not more than 2 times the pay of an average line worker. Lose the car and travel expenses and all the perks too!!

Dan from Windsor
said

Everyone wants to blame autoworkers and unions and talk about "their" tax dollars. Well believe me, if the auto companies pull out of Canada you're going to see a lot of people who pay billions in taxes on the unemployment line. It's a loan, not a gift of tax dollars..think people!

AndyL
said

Why are people saying "no one want to buy American cars". Sales are not the problem, GM sold 9.7 million cars around the world in 2007. They sold less this year, but Toyota and Honda are seeing 20 to 30% decline this year also.

The problem is profitability. The union need to make major concessions. Stop whining about a CEO salary of in the millions, when retiree benefits alone are in the billions. If the union don't want to give in, well I hear McDonalds is doing well in these recessionary times. Start training GM workers to flip hambergers. That job however will be much less money than if they accept pay cuts now.

don of hamilton
said

know one bailed my old plant out & I lost a great paying job (not quite as much as the ford plant) now I make 1/2 the pay...get a grip...your not better than me!!

Pat E.
said

I realize the serious situation for the big three but why are they manufacturing vehicles that people are not and cannot buy at this time? Should the tax payers keep them afloat ? I don't think so and if a small business(which is very important to the country) goes bankrupt, is the tax payer going to pay to keep them afloat as well? Probably not!

John in Calgary
said

For those of you who think people should feel bad about buying imports read a couple facts here:

Toyota Corolla (not hybrid) gets 6.6L/100km (city/highway combined) and sells for $14,835 to start

Malibu (hybrid) gets 6.1L/100km's and starts at $23,750 (note they only show highway mileage)

GM's idea of a Joke: Escalade (hybrid) gets 14.6L/100km (combined) and starts at $73,000.

These are just the prices of the cars, a person also needs to take into consideration that the resell value of imports is higher as well.

I will not feel guilty about buying an import, I put months of research into buying a car and the import was leagues above any domestic. I will not give my vote to anybody who puts money into the automotive industry. The unions don't want to take pay cuts, which keeps the price extremely over priced. The Big 3 have had years to adapt to the market and refused.

If they do shut down, Toyota and Honda and others will buy the plants and start making cars here, so nobody will go long without a job.

The big 3 have acted like 6 year olds finding a five dollar bill, they have no thought of what they could do with it in the future, they just need to spend it now. And the Unions don't care about the People they represent, the more money they get you, the higher your union dues are. I know all about unions and what they are good for, I saw it all when CP Express & Transport shut down (the former CP Rail trucking division).

Dean Hamilton Vancouver
said

A MODERN PARABLE . .

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American Company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .
The End.
Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.
TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

Wayne in Beresford New Brunswick
said

I am dead set against giving them one cent unless very strict conditions are attached.

1) It should only be a loan, totally repayable with interest
2) We appoint auditors to oversee the day to day operations of each of the big three.
3. Absolutely no bonuses be paid to the executives.
4. Cross the board wage cuts, both management and union.
5. Build cars that meet the customers needs, not the other way around.
6. If your vehicles can't get at leats 30 miles per gallon, don't build them.

I have worked in the mining industry for 34 four years and have seen many mines close without any help from tax payers. The same can be said for the Forestry, Fishing and Manufactoring Industries.

If the government insists on giving the big three our hard earned money without conditions, I would suggest a tax revolt as a temporary measure, unitl we are satisified with what the government is proposing. Don't file your 2007 taxes.

We currently own a 1996 Honda Accord and a 2008 Fusion. Quality is number one with us.

ann
said

It saddens me that something with the potential of severe economic consequences is viewed simply as a forum for union bashing. The positive ground the UAW/CAW have made over the last 50 years is something every working man/woman should be proud of. Historic consessions were made in the last series of contract negotiations. Only a very small percentage of the cost of a vehicle is the wages, yet it appears to be the biggest issue with the general public. Perhaps the wages are high, but remember, the more you make the more you spend. The auto workers in many communities have contributed countless hours and dollars to many worth-while causes. Because of their higher wages, they have contributed more to the tax-bases of their hometowns and to the many retailers etc. I think people have to realize how devestating the effects of these bankruptcies could potentially be. And remember, it is not just the autoworkers who are going to lose their jobs or homes.

Mo
said

I'm surprised at how some of these comments got through the filter or moderator as some of them are directly attacking individuals, or profane. (how did "b@st@rds" get through?)

Anyway, I definitely reflect the common opinion here that there's got to be a recognition especially of those working in the auto industry that they need to give more in order to not only sustain the viability of the industry, but also to safeguard their jobs.

Another option is to encourage auto manufacturers who seem much more capable of managing their company to set up more manufacturing plants here in North America to supplant some of those lost jobs. It won't save them all, but at least it would help, and given the declining demand for Big 3 vehicles, it only means an increasing share of the market for other companies. Of course with the economy faltering, it may be more difficult to do. We need to recognize that it's not the Big 3 that sustains the economy especially in the East, it's the auto industry that does. Losing the Big 3 would be devastating since they are a large chunk of the industry here, but as mentioned before, other companies play a role here in North America as well, and it doesn't close up some solutions for maintaining the auto industry.

Might I add the opinion in here that I feel our economy in Canada's too reliant on natural resources, and the auto industry.

Lawrence
said

They definitely need to cut wage for sure.

Since they need money for tax players now, it's time to force them to do so.

Our tax should not ever invest to garbage projects.

chris
said

The reason the big 3 are failing is because they make lemons and people realize that and they buy the better made asian cars. The only reason anyone in america would buy a car from the big 3 is because the big is part of the american culture...the Canadian Government shouldn't bail them out until they can make a half decent car.

Edwin from Toronto
said

Nobody is buying cars
Just let the autoworkers to live on EI benefits for a year.
If making cars is profitable next year, they can get back their job in a new company.

Rocket
said

It's funny how people get all crazy about taxpayer loans to a private business they deem mismanaged yet they seem to forget they perpetually fund the largest bailout every day-it's called Government and it's Employees! And who are we to harp about autoworkers making $30 an hour when most gov't employees in Ottawa make at least that-yet no one cries to get their wages reduced. The auto industry is a part of our economy period-without it we are just that much closer to becoming a consuming, not producing nation. But I guess to the gov't paper pusher in Ottawa who drives his Volvo and makes $80,000 cash for life-who cares about Joe Schmoe in Windsor. they'll always be a Mercedes dealer ready to sell me my next car.

Alysha Ont
said

I could support the Gov't helping the auto industry with a small bailout just to keep Canadians working and the economy moving along. However I have a real concern with this. The Gov't could lend the Big 3 some funds to bail them out but what guarantee do we have that in a months time, they or one of them will go under and the taxpayer gets screwed !!!! The Unions and the Companies have to work out a fiscal plan here. Cut the top exec's wages by a few million !!!

Liana - Frankford
said

I really dislike the way the auto workers unions think that they can hold the people of Canada hostage over this very serious business. I agree that the big bucks are nice for such a tedious job however, I am not willing to pay for it. NO bonuses, no corporate jets, no excess benefits. Take the cut in pay ladies and gentlemen or welcome to the unemployment line. A cut in pay or no pay, you decide!!!!

SS
said

Hey, I get why people are POed about using out tax dollars to give LOANS to the auto indutry. But hearing how eager people are to 'let them die', etc., I wonder if they really realize just how much of this economy is tied to this industry...
Not just the Auto makers themselves, there are the parts makers, suppliers or raw materials, local places where workers eat, shop and live. So, if youthink our tax dollars are streched now (and yes, they are) think about what happens when THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of people of ALL wage categories lose their jobs... ALL AT ONCE!
"They can find other jobs..."- Of course they can, but not that many all at once! That's more than the job market can take! In the meantime, I hope you like the idea of all your tax money going to pay for unemployment, not to mention that there's less taxes being payed in, with all those jobs lost.

"When someone applies to work at our place of business and they've worked in the auto industry, we don't give them a second look..."- Hey guy from Whitby, good for you guys, that makes you part of the oncoming problem. When GM fails, you'll be seeing a lot of applications... then I hope you remember how you were rooting for this to happen.

I get it though- major retooling, redesign and restucting needs to happen, and I agree, less money is better than none for sure. I've worked quite a few hard jobs for little money before. Better than nothing!

This situation sucks, but this whole 'haters' attitude is really not helping. I don't like it either, but while you're cheering 'Burn baby burn!", watch out your house doesn't catch fire...

Hope to us all...

Martin for Canada
said

I assume the auto workers are suffering with the temporary layoff when the companies still are paying them 90% of their "salary" because they are now in the "job bank" according to their contracts. Somehow I don't think they are even remotely realising how the rest of the country feels, when a lay off means you now live on poggie!
Someone needs to get these contracts opened and get a real life like the rest of us! Work for a living!

Sherry
said

What about a bail out for my company ??? I doubt it .. car companies are not the only ones that need money you know.

S. Ray
said

In any other business if you cannot sell a product people wish to buy you do not stay in business. Period. The North American market can no longer sustain 3 car makers. That is obvious. Concede, merge and produce a better mousetrap. Wages are a small part of the end price of a vehicle - from what I understand approx 7% overall - but with benefits and pension they make about $70 or so dollars an hour. And why are members who leave given a severence package, pension and a deal on their next new vehicle???
If this is the way they wish to spend my minimum wage dollars they can stand in the welfare line as far as I'm concerned. Come join the real world and see what it is like to live on a normal wage...

Pity no way - suck it up. Your time has come.

Dave
said

As a GM employee it is time that the executives take their pay cuts and put together a good business plan. Maybe the public don't know that the we have not received more than a 1% raise in the past 4 years and won't receive one until the next contract. We have been giving back for many years. Everyone needs to get off the workers' back as we are not the ones calling the shots. We are the ones paying taxes, giving to charities, volunteering in our communities and putting our kids through colleges. We keep our communities going because we do spend money. If the Auto industry dries up so will everything else.

Deepak
said

As per 2006 Fortune-500 companies list.GM ranked 3rd(with Revenue of 192,604.0 Million USD ) and Ford ranked 5th (with revenue 177,210.0 million USD ).Now my confusion is howcome these companies didnot make any profit.Have they been fooling the world with all the astonishing figures.And how come CEOs were paid in millions as bonuses and perks.Wow.. CEO(Craps Eating Organization).Yes i do agree with the fact, these company didnot give importance to the technology and developing fuel efficient vehicles.But the other reason to consider is Work ethic and Greed for money at any cost.CEOs want pay in Millions...point to ponder on, why do we need a CEO at this cost???

Dave in Midland
said

I applied to Honda back in 1999 when their starting wages were higher than what a Teacher or Nurse just starting out would be paid. There are no college courses for assembly line auto workers so why would a non-union manufacturer pay so much? The CAW is cutting it's own head off by being so stubborn about not taking a pay cut when they already make an average of ten dollars more per hour. CAW's greed will choke them to death - literally. Take a pay cut or we will see you at the drive-thru windows of the local fast-food restaurants once the E.I. runs out. Your choice. If the big 3 do go belly up, there will always be a company or group of companies that will take up the slack as people will continue to drive vehicles, but you can bet they won't have unions in their shops or the high wages that go with them.

Johnny Dougs, Winnipeg
said

One poster equated "CAW wage cuts" to "ensuring CAW members cannot afford a house." That's quite a leap to make. People don't want them to lose their houses, only to wake up and acknowledge their contribution to this mess and to ask themselves, "Is it reasonable for me to expect to earn $70 an hour in a monotonous assembly line?" It's that attitude that turns regular folk off.

As for the suggestion by some that Canada's borders be shut to foreign-made cars, I ask, what would the impact be on our economy when average people that unions purport to care about can no longer afford those vehicles? If Canadians were forced to buy Canadian-made vehicles only, these companies would have a captive market and the unions would keep demanding more and more, driving up costs.

It may be time to take an honest look at our auto sector and whether it can really compete in a global marketplace. Lots of manufacturing jobs have gone to cheap labour markets because people don't like spending more than they have to. Why should cars be exempt?

Dave I
said

If GM can't compete, then it shouldn't be in business. Any "bailout" money should be given either to the laid-off employees to help them get back on their feet, or to a corporate tax cut so our intelligent businesses have a better shot at surviving the recession.

Hal St John
said

Just a thought but ... why don't the Oil companies bail out the car companies? They have record profits and what goes through gas quicker than big 3 cars?

ANDYIMPORT-EDMONTON
said

In 2001 I bought a used FORD. Thousands of dollars spent in repairs within the first 6 months, in 2003 I bought a spanking new GM/PONTIAC...it was at the dealer every 3 to 6 months for repairs for one issue or the other...may times for the same problem which the dealer just couldn't seem to fix. Once the 3 year warranty was up I got rid of that piece of crap & made a promise to myself never again to enter a domestic dealership.

In 2006 I got myself a spanking new HONDA...whew! What a difference in quality, reliability & not to mention resale value.

Again, why would I want my TAX Dollars going towards assisting companies that produce a vastly inferior quality product that only creates problems for the majority of owners? I think the gov't should NOT & I mean absolutely NOT bail any of these 3 companies out. Let them fall...it will only serve to allow HONDA, TOYOTA, NISSAN etc. to build more & better cars for everyone.

A Tax Payer
said

The Big 3 need to wake up and smell the coffee !
1. We need a 100% guarantee that the hard earned tax dollars that are LOANED to the Big 3 will remain in Canada.
2. LOAN � Not a bailout. We, the Canadian tax payers, expect our money to be repaid, with interest.
3. The Big 3 need to demonstrate that things won�t be �business as usual� before 1 cent is handed over. Live within your means like everyone else has to !
4. Everyone, from the top to the bottom, needs to take a substantial pay cut just like in every other company that is in financial crisis. No more expense accounts, private jets, golden handshakes, gold plated pensions�
5. The CAW always wants a piece of the pie when earnings are up ! Now things are falling apart. The choice is your�take a pay cut OR lose your jobs ? The answer seems obvious to the rest of us.
6. If the CAW can�t agree to substantial pay cuts, the Big 3 should file for bankruptcy and start over ! There are thousands of people in Ontario who would jump at the chance of a job earning $20/hr with BASIC benefits, not the excessive salaries that the CAW demands.
7. The Big 3 need to rethink the products that they are manufacturing, and design vehicles that the motoring public will buy.
8. Stop building cars with a million options and styles. Simplify things.
9. Stop whining about unfair trade practices, etc. If you build a quality product and offer it at reasonable price, the imports won�t sell�simple supply and demand !
10. Back-up that quality product with true customer service and real warranties.

Areostar
said

If the North American worker was not so greedy they would be able to compete with the import manufacturers and create vehicle everyone can afford. That was the dream of Henry Ford when he created the Model T, but look where we are at now. Looking to the government to suppliment our lavish lifestyles and keep us employed to create a product we are limited to buying because of the economic crisis or no one can afford to buy. Give your head a shake people and figure it out. Making more cars is not the solution. They will sit on the car lot a rot waiting for better times. If spending is down and jobs are going out the door, who is going to buy a car. If these car companies are ready to bite the bullet and restructure they may have a chance. That will mean an end to the lavish lifestyle and big payouts.But hey if we have to make concessions why shouldnt they. I say let them go down and quit looking to the goverment for a job. You guys are the ones who created your own demise. Now you either have to live with it or make change. Its up to you, not the people of Canada.

Michelle
said

If it meant taking a cut in pay or keeping my job, I think I'd take the first option. It really and truly infuriates me to know that these autoworkers make twice as much as I do, many without a post-secondary education. Time and a half for overtime, guess what I get paid for overtime...NOTHING!!! This was a long time coming. You don't deserve my tax dollars.

Kim
said

I have totally mis-managed my business and ran it into the toilet. How can I get some money?

Army sup tech
said

I'll bet that the tar sands have taxpayers $$$$ invested in them.
So why all the outrage from the West?
Hopefully Iggy can take over because obviously Harper and the Reform party will not act.

john -fredericton
said

In response to Tammy "what sort of wage cut do you propose"....you are worried that you might loose you home,etc.,etc.,etc. I am a self-employed person with a business degree and would love to make the salary you do and none of the worries and headaches that go along with self-employment. I live within my means and take nothing for granted.Can you honestly say you are worth over $70.00 per hour? You cannot see the forrest for the trees. By not rolling back your wages,etc., you are only helping youself to the unemployment line. Wait until bankruptcy hits. Bye bye unions. See if the CAW bosses will help you then. If my business goes under, do you think the taxpayers are going to bail me out? Will I get EI or that wonderful layoff salary? Wake up and smell the coffee. It is survival of the fittest...

Marcel Scouten - Brampton
said

How could our Canadian Government or Opposition, in part or in whole part, even consider taxpayer�s money and financial aid to GM and Chrysler subsidiaries here in Canada before any resolution or commitments has been made by the US Government to the Parent Companies of these Corporations. If our governments move forward with aid to either company, we will risk losing taxpayer�s money in the event of unfortunate bankruptcy � a clear possibility for one or more. Premature aid will open the flood gates, set precedent and create an uneven playing field for others wanting to invest in Canada.

Edmonton John
said

What people fail to realize is that the value of the plants and infrastructure around Ontario's automotive cluster is worth many times its replacement cost in future productivity growth.

Nations around the globe have been spending billions to try and start industrial clusters. We have one now that is suffering under global economic forces, and grossly undervalue it.

We are lucky to have the opportunity to salvage the industry and redirect the output, but it seems too many people are gleefully watching the slow motion destruction of their own economy to look at how it will not only affect them in the short term, but in the long term.

The comments on this board, especially the criticism of the unions, are a sad indictment of the ignorance of too many Canadians.

Pete, formerly from Ontario
said

The solution is easy but requires both countries to work together.

1. All bonuses and stock option plans are suspended indefinitely or cancelled with no retro-active payment.

2. All salaries above $200k are cut by at least half. All salaries below 200k are reduced to non-union standards.

3. All positions are reviewed and their need evaluated by a 3rd party. It was really bad going to visit plants and see people watching machines work or having to remove tv sets from the top of automation lines.

Sean
said

Think about this carefully, the Big 3 are asking for a "Bridge loan" which means the taxpayer is not giving a handout or welfare for autoworkers as some on here seem to think. This is meant to be repaid.
Auto workers are also taxpayers and consumers in case you did'nt realize this.
When this industry fails there will be a trickle down effect. You may want to think about that because your job may be affected when 300,000 workers incomes are taken out of the economy. It's real easy to bury your head in the sand when it doesn't affect you personally.
This misconception of the overpaid union worker is getting really old. The imports pay their hourly workers almost exactly the same wage. The large disparity in pay is at the salary/management level. It's real easy to say that a line worker is only worth 15 or 20 bucks and hour. But how much should a garbage collector get paid?(city worker..tax dollars!)I personally think 20 per hour is way too much. You could look at any occupation and decide that they are overpaid. When did it become a crime to earn a decent living? The auto industry is not in this position because of the hourly worker. We are currently in a recession, banks are asking for bailouts(no question asked) because they are failing. Yet they are still paying bonuses.
Does that not seem wrong to anyone, or is it just easier to blame everything on the union worker. Sorry for the rant, but this is one overpaid union worker that is tired of these ridiculous comments.

Hi Kids
said

Your should have no problems if you just follow Mr Harpers answer to the problem.
He said there were a lot of deals in the stock market go out & gamble!
He thinks your doing so good he gave 130,400. of your money to each of his 18 friends for 7 years & he gave all the members of parliament 7 weeks holidays because there simply is no crisis your all doing great.

Ed W., Guelph, ON.
said

How these carmakers expect taxpayers to bail them is beyond me. Perhaps they need to look inward first, starting with top management salaries and certainly all the unionized workers too. Just like everyone else in Canada, most of the world even, a lower paying job is infinitely better than NO JOB! Take your pick workers!!

MuskyBuck
said

@ Vern AAFU Spokesman,

Exactly Vern. That is one aspect of my point. On a broader issue is that we are all ignoring the death throe's of a business model itself.

It can't be saved. When you consider the options, we can invision a capitalist society that evolves.

Having just a couple of companies taking all the business and making jobs and workers robots pumping out product is simply industrial era thinking that has caught up to itself.

Why not dozens if not more, small to medium sized companies all across our country producting unique product?

We would see all these workers employed. Unions wouldn't be a necessity any longer.

Distinct, home grown Canadian business would all compete, great for the economy.

The innovation that would occur with this model would be explosive.

It's just that there are some very rich and powerful people that would like to keep this playground of money for a few.

We will all survive and flourish if we let nature take it's course here.

SD from Otawa
said

So, let's see here....

The Unions want the federal government to throw money at auto companies that are failing (mainly because their products suck and no one wants to buy them), even if the US doesn't bail out the auto companies there?

Uhhh, with this kind of thinking, no wonder they are all in trouble. I say let them go bankrupt and restructure. This way they can emerge more competitive with the foreign automakers. And if they can't, then they shouldn't be building cars anyway.

I'd like to buy a car made by the Big 3, but none of them appeal to me whatsoever. I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same.

Damian (Toronto)
said

Funny how people view the world.. The same people who scream and foam at the mouth at the idea of using tax money to bail out banks affected by the current economic situation are lining up to submit demands that tax money be used to bail out car makers affected by the current economic situation...

To the big three: no one wants to buy your product. What do you expect the government to do?

Jason I
said

Maybe most of the people who are complaining about the car makers and how greedy they are - should spend some time in one of them. Maybe they need to take a look at the cuts the auto workers have already taken. Most people would realize this issue has been brought on by the state of the economy! Everyone needs to realize what will happen to the economy as a whole if one of the Big 3 are left to fall. The amount of income tax and property tax paid by the autoworkers and the auto plants will be lost. This lost in revenue from the various levels of Government will have to be made up from somewhere. Where you might ask? The rest of us - thru increase taxes and cuts in services. It's amazing the U.S senate, with the stroke of a pen, can put hundreds of thousands of people out of work, and put the entire economy into a tail spin - I hope they all have a great Christmas dinner.

Wake up and smell the Coffee
said

Why put money into a dead horse? If the Big 3 are going to go down why put money into a make work project? If people cannot afford to buy a new car or get the money to buy one, why build more so they can sit on a car lot and deteriorate. Looking to the goverment for a bailout is not the answer. All it will do is keep people in a job which is enevidably going to die in the present economic crisis. Unions want the jobs but dont want to budge on any concessions. I say let the Big three go down and restructure from there. New contracts and negotiations to get operating costs lower would be part of the solution. Its called economics. Supply and demand.
Theres a big supply already and no demand Why create a job for a product no one can buy?

Ed D - Winnipeg
said

As a retired pensioner, my income is taxed and makes be flameing mad when I hear that the auto industry unions and their membership will not even consider what the other global companies are doing by reducing salaries. What will these Unions do if the Big Three go Chapter 11? What will the many employees do when they havent a job and should have considered making concessions before taking the Canadian Taxpayers money. Where is the justice in this?? Maybe its time to let them go and ignore their threats.

Soozyann
said

Why should we continue to pour money into companies that are mismanaged and have an unaffordable labour cost? There are a lot of companies laying people off right now that are probably more deserving. Where do you draw the line? There's hope for the union's yet though. If the Liberal party, which they support and campaign for gets into power next year then they shouldn't have anything to worry about right? Liberals are really generous with taxpayer's money especially when they are buying political support.

Cyn (MB)
said

Closing the plants and laying off their employees is a required and a responsible thing to do seeing that they have to reduce if not eliminate some of their expenses. The government should incorporate in their budget an emergency fund for "the workers" where any EI waiting period would be waived and raise the percentage paid for benefits. Let the auto industry take their lumps and use part of the "bail out" to directly help the workers until the auto industry gets to a level (on their own...like any other business will have to)that is sustainable and realistic.

Crystal in BC
said

What about the coal and forest industry in BC that are sinking fast. Where I live it employes just as many jobs as the auto industry. It is just because it is good old Ontario. They have more votes so the government will always love them. Even Alberta is going to be in trouble in a little bit if oil keeps falling and not one word about bail outs has come our way.

Terps
said

SO tired of hearing people comment on people who buy imports and that this is the problem. A lot of "imports" are actually made in North America (without unionized employees I might add). And for all of those people who do make those statements; please have a walk around your house; where are your clothes made? your stereos? your appliances? all other gadgets? Unless everything you own is made in NA, you have no grounds to comment on what cars people are driving.

Michel S.
said

Okay folks, so you've been hitting the picket lines throughout the years and got more $$, the execs have had $$$ up-the-ying-yang.

Now it's time to give up a little to let everyone else survive....if you're not grateful enough to do that, you don't deserve to keep your job.

Sometimes ya just got to give a little and cut loose the greediness.

Andrew - Ottawa
said

To those of you who are asking "I'm hurting during this recession, why isn't the government helping me?" or "The restaurant down the road/small business went under yesterdy, why didn't they get a bailout?"...you really do not get it. You and them are getting help from the government, in the form of a bailout package to allow the North American manufacturing sector to survive and thus stimulating the economy.

Most of you probably have mutual funds/stock...notice how low they are? Did they go up or down after the bailout package was denied? In a couple months, if there is no help, and the North American auto industry goes under do you think the markets will go up or down? They will go down, so far it will make this recession seem like a joke. And do you think the little local businesses and restraunts will survive a depression...most probably won't.

So, before you look at this as YOUR tax dollars being wasted to help a private company survive, this is OUR tax dollars being used to keep the North American economy alive.

Thanks for supporting North America!

Fed up in Kingston, ON
said

The fact of the matter is that incompetent and reckless management and pure unadulterated greed on behalf of the Auto Unions has created a situation where their business model is'nt viable any more.

Back in 1983, Lee Ioccacca, President and CEO of a recently bailed-out Chrysler stated that GM's health care and over-head costs including hourly wages were way out of line with what the companys revenue streams were bringing in. Ditto for Ford.

The executives as recently as the mid-1990's were boasting privately of their fat margins selling expensive SUV's at $50K to gullible Canadian & American buyers.

Members of the CAW working at Ford live in $700K Oakville mansions and pull in in excess of $100K in overtimne in a good year plus benefits!!

And these people expect the rest of us to bail them out! Only with a 50% pay cut all around! Otherwise, phone your MP and protest before these spin meisters empty Canadas treasury!

jerry burzynski
said

the union has to realize something, you want taxpayers to help the big 3, then take a cut(10%)in pay. the union better realize something these are not good economic times for anyone. a small cut in pay does not make that much of a difference in take home pay. by the way union business agents should maybe sell those golf clubs in the trunk of the cars they drive around being paid for by union members dues. also a good way for the union brass to save money--1. sell fleet of cars(take public transit-this saves money on insurance, fuel and is good for the environment) 2. when flying take economy not first class. just a couple of pointers for the union to follow when they have to layoff there own business reps because they will not bend and take a cut in pay and expect a taxpayer to help them out.

Not Alone ---
said

Double edged sword... if you give the auto sector a bail out then you can certainly give it to others like Nortel survival loans too. Nortel is North America's leading telecommunications company, they spend more on R&D in Canada than anyone else and employ +10,000 in Canada. Nortel is proud Canadian company with world renouned leadership in Optical transport & VoIP, wireless, wireline & cable technologies that Canadians use and depend on every single day. Nortel continues to get a bad rap in the media because of a few bad apples, but their technology developed here in Canada is World Class - they are leaders they did not mis the boat. The auto industry missed the boat on small efficient high quality cars and are now paying the price to Toyota and Honda. Sorry folks I've been paying taxes for 35 years and demand fair play. Bail out one - bail out all!!!

Bubba from Alberta
said

One thing that the "coilition" traitors are missing here as well as those posting of the numerous boards that Harper should help...you're not really getting a pulse here on the feelings of the majority of Canadians. If there was even a hint of money being thrown at you because of your whining, expect a major, major revolt from Canadians....you're on your own boys.

Linda in Vancouver
said

Shutting down for a whole month is could be the beginning of the end.Or,it there is a sound businees case,and a plan,perhaps it could be a new beginning.

WHat I can hardly wait for is the litany of excuses that will eminate from people who have been making $30 per hour,as to why they can't survive until the unemployment cheques start rolling in.Or that the cheques are to small to "support me in the manner to which I am accustomed".

Welcome to the real world people.No one is going to escape this economic debacle unscathed.NO ONE.My best advice would be to start looking for a job doing something that needs to be done.Forget about putting wheels on cars no one wants.I think those days are gone.

And,by the way,if you don't have some skills,I wouldn't be holding out for the wages and benefits that seem to be available working for the "Big Three".

THose of us who still have jobs had better start looking over our shoulders.Any one of us could be next.At the very least,we can expect more unemployed people to be living off of our paycheques.

Frank in Oshawa
said

I just drove through Whitby and Oshawa ON. What I found was what I thought was interesting. Each of the so called "import dealers", mostly made in North America, my I add, have 1 dealership, Ford and Chrysler each have 2 and GM has 5. As I drove, looked around and realized there wasn't 5 times as many GM products on the road. I may not be a scholar but to me this seems like a colossal waste of money. 5 dealers being supported when this all could be done by 1 or 2.
No wonder they are in finacial difficulty

Margaret
said

Thank you GM, for a bleak Christmas for many people in Ontario. Many people work for companies that supply GM and we are certainly feeling the crunch of having GM plants down for an extended period of time.
I understand not wanting to give back any wages that the GM works are currently making, but if this keeps up they will not have a job if GM goes bankrupt.
Many companies in the industry have put all their employees on wage freezes(some have been for a few years)and we have to get by with what we are making.
Why can't the people in the union play well with others and a least take a wage freeze or a small decrease in wages!

Rob T - Calgary
said

I heard this AM that North American autoworkers make an average of $9.00 per hour more than European and Asian car makers.
So the unions want us taxpayers to bail them out?

I run a business; where's my bailout?
Look, the management and unions all were greedy. Downsizing is necessary. If all of you had been less greedy for the past many years, this would not have occured.

I care that families are getting hurt - but it is up to each individual to accept that the job is gone and to re-train. Re-education is often a necessity. Digging your heels in and not admitting the job is gone does nothing.

I friend of mine just completed an education masters degree. In his research he told me that the new work force basically believed that they were entitled to things like bonuses, extra holidays, etc. Hopefully we all get a dose of reality and realize that an honest day's work leads to an honest day's pay....

Free Thinker in the West
said

CAW President Ken Lewenza said "I believe if the Canadian government intervenes ... we can avoid this economic crisis in the auto industry."

So, Mr Lewenza, how exactly do you see that happening?

When are you union-bred people going to get it through your heads that the market dictates and if you're still building things that people don't want, then I guess it's time for you to pick up your toys and go home...no doubt you will have a home to go to and some form of income to live the rest of your life.

Uions have totally brainwashed so many people for so long that you can't accept what's truly happening in our world - you still have coloured clouds in yours.

Your industry as we know it today is done.

BC Ken
said

It is a unfortunate the Big 3 are still blind to the fact that they have been dying a slow death for many years. They have been taking North American drivers for a ride, no pun intended, for to many years and have now priced themselfs out of a job. Their threats of hundred of thousands of job being lost, if they are left to fail, are an unfortunate reality. We had the same issues here in BC when it came to the Forest industry but we didn't see any bail out packages for those workers in that industry. I personally work in the Forest industry as a teenager in 79/80 and could see the writing on the wall at that time and so I moved on to more secure employement and have been there ever since. Even though a shut down of the Auto industry has an affect on the work I do now it's time for them to go from the top on down. I am affraid that they just don't get it and won't until the hand outs and piliaging from the public stops. I see $60.000 vehicles supposedly on sale for $29.000 and the sad part about it there is still money being made on that vehicle. This ripping off of the public starts at the Factory and go's right down to the salesman at the car dealership. We are all aware when you drive a brand new vehicle off the lot it is worth $10.000 less the next day....How can that be? It's about time the public takes the Auto indutry for a little ride down a dead end road.

GMFC
said

For those who support the big 3, just buy their crappy cars along with their poor customer service. You'll definitely save jobs but you'll end up needing that bailout.

mark
said

Fault:
1. Automakers - Clearly, your product is not worth the investment for many people.
2. Unions - By artificially increasing the "value" of labour, the labour becomes not worth the money for automakers.
3. Government - For allowing the unions this power.

Note: This is not proof that "unfettered" economy doesn't work. It's quite the opposite. If the autodealers could pay their workers true market value, they could afford to carry on.

Dale - Edmonton
said

CAW and UAW - make significant wage concessions. Your demands for government assistance will have no credibility until you do.

Why the fuss
said

Brittany have you ever seen the movie "who killed the electric car?" General Motors. I'm in a Union and I took cuts when my company went into chapter 11, but to keep my job, I'm thankful. I don't think the government should bail out GM, Chrysler, and Ford, but it is for all the tear I, II and tear III companies. They are the ones that will suffer the most.

Thomas
said

I wonder if the general public really understands the fall out if major auto groups fail. think of all those workers and who they would do business with on a regular basis, such as shoe stores, grocery, clothing stores. This will effect every working person out there, except for maybe government employee's. i agree it's not all the governments responsibility to use tx payers monies to free up the car makers. Does anyone remember the late 70's with Chrysler. In any other business anyway almost if a company owner came to the employee and said we need to reduce cost/wages or we have to close. What do you do? it seems the UAW and the CAW appear to think it everyone elses responsibility. if you price yourself out of business you have no work, it's pretty basic and you would think common sense. I hope someone wakes up real soon to that fact

Trina from Saskatchewan
said

I work for GM in that I sell their cars, trucks, SUVs and vans. I'm proud to say that I work at a Chevy dealership and that I sell cars. What concerns me is that I do see this money for a bailout coming to Western Canada in the form of keeping the jobs that we have, hybrid vehicles being provided, and work for our Canadian economy. The world is in a recession, thousands and thousands of people are losing their jobs. If the Canadian government offers a loan to the 'Big Three', repayable in 5 years or less, that's a chance I'm hoping they'll take. But, our GM office has to take a more proactive stance. These Union workers should take a pay cut; at least they'd keep their jobs. The health benefits that are being given to retired personnel is unbelievable! GM, you must stop this! When the rest of the country leaves their previous job, the benefits don't follow with them and they shouldn't if you've work at a GM plant for 30-40 years. Cut the ties, GM.

Lynn from Balm Beach Ontario
said

Do the American and Canadian governments not realise the seriousness of this situation? Does the public? Even if you are not directly involved with the auto industry, you will be affected by what happens to it. Industry bankruptcies will lead to double digit unemployment figures not seen since The Great Depression of the 1930s. It took 10 years(7 years of it at war)to clean up that mess. Governments failed to act quickly, just as they did this time around, and it worsened. The fire alarm has been sounded and the smoke is visible. For God's sake please call the fire department so they can put it out before the building(our countries) are fully engulfed.

Wendy
said

Ottawa had better not bail out the NA car companies. This has been coming for a long time. They choose to ignore what the public was looking for. I will always buy imports and never feel ashamed. It is not like we are buying them overseas....they are made here in Canada and we are supporting the CANADIAN workers in those plants. The "Big 3" have been brought down by a selfish union, workers who are overpaid and refusing to build environmentally friendly cars, on a large scale...I think the NA car companies should fall into bankruptcy...get rid of the unions and rehire based on wages and union agreements like the Japanese big 3 have with their workers.

Cara B, Halifax
said

@Todd in Alberta:
That might work if these were actually Canadian companies but they're not. They're American companies with production plants in Canada; no different than a Japanese company with a production plant in Canada.

Fed up
said

I am sorry that alot of people will be out of work but I am not sorry for the trouble that these big companies and unions have caused.
Why should the canadian taxpayers bail them out?Where do you expect us to get the money in an alresdy strapped economy?And of course those 3 idiots will complain as usual if the Prime Minister doesn't do what they want.It's a no win situation for us taxpayerswe are going to get screwed in the end no matter what.We always do.

Alex
said

The problem is that the spillover effects from laying off hundreds of thousands of people for a month at the very least might be very unpleasant even for those who are demanding wage cuts in exchange for their tax dollars. And the spillover has nothing at all to do with ideology.

kman
said

Why is it that the "big three" made in North Americia are failing so bad when most of their product is made elsewhere in the world. And why is it that the foreign cars which are mostly made here in North
America are doing so well? It just comes down to mismanagment by the supposed big three. These people with grade 12 education do not deserve the wages they make. Nurses, firemen, ambulance drivers, police officers, who all take yearly recertifications to stay employed have far more responsibility and make the same or less money. The auto industry is an inflated antiquated industry that needs a serious trimming which it is getting right now.

kris
said

"Who Killed the Electric Car?" - GM.
Who Killed GM? - GM.

Karin
said

To Brittany - yes, GM makes a Hybrid...their Malibu Hybrid has fuel efficiency ratings of 8.5L/100Km city, and 6.2L/100KM hwy. This is attrocious. Many non-hybrids made by the Japanese automakers, similar size cars, have better fuel efficiency ratings (Civic is 8.2L/100Km City, 5.7L/100KM Hwy; Corolla is 7.8L/100KM City, 5.6L/100KM hwy), and they don't have the environmental disaster of a battery under their hood. GM's attempt at a Hybrid was simply window dressing...they wanted to check off the category, and didn't bother caring enough to put out a decent product. Once they have a Hybrid that has fuel efficiency ratings similar to the Japanese cars (Prius is 4.0L/100KM city and 4.2L/100KM Hwy; Civic Hybrid is 4.7L/100KM City, 4.3L/100KM Hwy), then we can congratulate them for putting out a Hybrid...until then, they effectively are a joke.

Darlene in Halifax
said

Tammy - How can you honestly believe that I should subsidize these people with my tax dollars and they shouldn't at least be willing to sacrifice a little bit in return? Bottom line - if you want my money then you had better be willing to cut back some yourself. I'm sorry if that's going to cause you some hardship but expecting everyone else to suffer so that you can maintain your lifestyle is not realistic or fair.

AylmerBob
said

CAW President Ken Lewenza should do something Buzz Hargrove would never do - show some responsibility and leadership, by offering substantial wage cuts and benefits reductions. Then, and only then, should governments in Canada and US should consider loans to new management teams, who possess some humility and foresight, at the big 3.

Mark - Edmonton
said

A very simple question. What is the Union prepared to bring to the table in terms of concessions, pay reductions, and staff layoffs? Then and only then would I support some intervention from the government to a level not to exceed what the union is offering.

NG ontario
said

Woow.. the people at the no- union Toyta and Honda plants in Ontario must be getting worried..Who is going to work all this overtime to produce more automobiles when the big three all stop producing, and is the CAW going to threaten them and their families if they do not sign their union cards?

Phil Concerned
said

The automotive fashion show continues, consumers are influenced more by jounalists than engineers. Movies such as The Fast and Furious have made our youth want Supras and Talons more than Mustangs and Camaros! More and more corporate profits are ending up in Japan and Korea, why, because is fashionable to own an import! Detroit builds great cars! GM has more fuel efficient powertrains than any other manufacturer. Older technology ie. pushrod v6 and v8 engines are more efficient than dohc v6 and v8 engines, just not as fashionable. We have reached the tipping point and we need to decide where our loyalties lie, do we help our friends and neighbours or continue to be fashionable, either way we will pay!!

Charlie F
said

Strange isn't it? Miss one payment on your new car in good times and they take it with no compassion or forethought. You are a deadbeat. However when they come knocking they want to borrow your money to keep them making their payments. Simply incredible logic and arrogance

Happy
said

I will never buy a North American vehicle ever again. I've been burnt to many times by the North American auto companies. They've sealed their own fate!!!

Not interested in paying for this stupidity
said

Looks a little too much like holding their breath until their faces turn blue to me.

Hey, if I deliberately mismanage my household finances, will the government give me a billion dollar bailout to avoid bankrupcy too?

Charley Rose
said

Yay Sheila! Bang on for sure. The 'we three' who need help so desperately need to sit down and look at the mess they made for themselves. This is all self made problematic symptoms they have created and were certainly preventable. Upper management cuts and affordable vehicles would be a good start. Can't say much to the workers wages, I'm all for the worker making enough to live on, but certainly keep their bottom lines in line with the rest of the country's industries.

GM
said

The big 3 have put themselves in this postion due to their own mismanagement. If they need money then get the top executives to take salary cuts and fire some of the top executives. They need to be accountable for this mess. It's always the blue collar workers that get punished. If the workers have to give up wages and benefits then let the executives lead the way. I own 3 fords and they are all top notch. Lastly, we need to support our big three not the Japanese cars.

Stevie
said

Someone PLEASE explain to me: how would it help the Not-So-Big-3 survive by giving them taxpayer money when the Execs in Detroit could literally just pull the plug on them anyway?

And, if GM is currently burning through cash like there's no tomorrow, what is different right now that a lifeline of 6 billion dollars will help them immediately turn a profit?

It doesn't make sense to give them money when nothing's changed and they'll just burn through tax payer money and probably request more in the short future.

Jonathan
said

More free trade, less whining.
It's the free market system. You stay competitive as a company or you loose market share and face bankruptcy. You stay competitive as a labour force or companies move jobs to other countries where workers are more committed, skilled or cost effective. You stay competitive as a nation to attract business from other countries or build business from within your country by offering assistance, low taxes and no tarrifs.
Protectionist measures, greedy shareholders and unreasonable unions all contribute and have contributed to the failing of the North American Auto Industry. North America needs to reinvent, reinvest and move forward.
The market system has spoken.

RJ - Logical Thinker
said

One thing is for sure...if te U.S. refuses an auto bail-out bill, then any dollars Canada or Ontario pumps into it will be completely wastd. Think of all taxpayers please...not just the over-stuffed, whining unions who are equally responsible for the mess the big-three is in in the first place. Don't chase good money after bad. If they can't manage, operate, or gain union concessions (big-time) then let them close, permanently if needed. No other business, specially small business, can whine ang get bailed out when things go bad for them. Many Canadians have lost dollars in the markets through declining pension funds, RSP's and the like. Do you hear them complaining for a government bail-out. No, only fat-cat union leaders concerned about their own jobs and shrinking membership give a damn.

Vern AAFU spokesman
said

Well said MuskyBuck!! When these "build the cars your neighbour helped to build' believers, go and buy a television, do they buy the ones made in Canada?? Is there a Canadian company making those in Canada?? How about the $150 Nike shoes on their feet? I think not!! Do they buy only the cars made in Oshawa, nope. Probably built in America, last time I checked, thats not made in Canada...Let em sink!!!

mrs o
said

here is to the big3, and the governement,, there are people out there starving and homeless,, give them the money,, they need it worse than those smart ass big wig who can go home at christmas to their families their over sized christmas trees and all their alcohol,, damn you big guys to hell and may you sink, as for you unions,, i still say the unemployment line is a good lesson for your overblown egos, so i am a b####but i am a minimum wage earner who would love to have your money and luxury for me and my family,, so suck it up princess

Supporter of NA cars
said

To "Richie in Hamilton" - GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!! The Japanese automakes ASSEMBLE cars in North America. Most of the components come from other countries. For every one assembly job the big three provide - they also indirectly provide 7-8 other jobs in the parts industry in North America. The Japanese don't give a hoot about jobs here.

Candace
said

My husband owns his own business and we are forced to make ends meet and be competitive. If we aren't we don't make money. I don't think the government or Canadian taxpayers would want to bail us out if we got into trouble so I see no reason why we should bail out the Big 3. Make a product people want to buy and be competitive.

Jim-Surrey
said

All three of them need to trim the fat off management salaries,perks and pensions and then run their business efficiently instead of expecting public tax dollars to bail them out!
Prices of vehicles are expensive enough if they can't survive off that then maybe they need to take some management courses.
Also they should have been making greener cars before now BUT greed will always be the downfall of big business as the consumer looks elsewhere for a better more cost effective vehicle.
It is unfortunate though that the workers are probably going to suffer and lose their jobs because of this mismanagement!!!!

Don Mb.
said

I think that the Canadian Government should not bail out the big three unless the USA does the same! Why should we give money to an American owned firm whose union refuses to take a wage cut? Also the CEO's of these companies should also take a big wage cut. Don't you think that they should present a reassured plan on how they're going to use this bailout before we even think about giving them anything?

Brian from NL
said

SO! The feds keep pour money into the auto plants to make cars that nobody wants or can afford at this time. Now how much sense does that make? For 25 years I bought NA built cars without exception to support the economy but now I drive a Toyota. Wonder why?

Chris Ont
said

Why not give tax breaks, say no GST or PST and possibly income tax rebates to people that purchase made in Canada cars. That way they would at least know which vehicles to build, and help kick start the economy. Mind you, Toyota's and Honda's would count also. Funny how people say foreign car makers. Last I checked the head office of the BIG 3 was in a foreign country, with subsidiaries in Canada. I think that people have problems with the foreign car makers because there is no union controlling the workers.

kid
said

So what do we do? Give them a few billion dollar to pump out a couple thousand more Chevy to collect dust on the parking lot? then the workers are happy to collect $40/hr while others are making less than half of that.

Time for a fair deal. The union needs to do a big huge adjustment to their package if they want to have a job and go to work everyday.

Stan hillier
said

we as canadians have to start by sticking together, stop buying foriegn cars , but the big 3 have to do thier part by making a better product, plus the top brass has to do their part and stop blaming the unions, the only way to fix this is to work together.

Dave in Courtenay
said

Fundamentally the world has more car-building capacity than is needed to serve the market. In fact, we are all encouraged to park existing cars and use public transportation, bicycles or simply walk. The Big Three make cars on every continent mostly according to customers' desires, not their needs. We had better start conversion of workers and production lines to something other than cars.

Mark
said

I blame this mess on the Auto Workers Union both in Canadian and the US. Come on how can you guys justify your members getting paid $28(+)/h to work on the line installing a few parts per employee. Most of your members have little education and all their trained to do is install their assigned parts. I am a skilled IT person with a full education and I am not getting paid no $28(+)/h. Take a pay cut, a large one, and if your members are not happy then they can go back to school a change professions.

Ed from BC
said

Instead of giving money directly to managers and unions who got themselves into this mess, the government should provide a three month holiday from GST on car sales. That is a direct stimulus that will still require GM, Ford and Chrysler to make cars that people want to buy.

Ed in Alberta
said

So when you all get hungry eat your Toyota.. So now we don't have an auto industry that is home grown ok thats fine.Now lets get everyone to have there wages cut in half. But lets not drop house prices or utility rates or the cost of grocery's..Now of course we have to increase the retirement age to 85 and don't forget all the seniors who lose there pension benifits and have to live on the government pensions and of course we have to increase your taxes because not everyone is working.. Yes it,s a wonderfull life

Mark from Brampton
said

Joseph, uncontrolled capitalism is what we need. However, we have not seen that in North America in the last 80-90 years.

Central Banks have been giving money to the banks too cheaply, and in turn the banks made loans they should not have made. We need to kill the source of the problem (Central Banks) if we are to make any progress.

GC
said

I hope and pray Buzz Hargrove is reading these posts. As well all CAW union people should have to read them, we are sick and tired of the junk built by these three companies, we are sick & tired of the stupid wages being paid to these workers and yes we are willing to let thses companies go under the short term pain will be well worth the long term gain of a sustainable auto industry where the employees are not making an average of 72.00 an hour.

Todd, Alberta
said

Possible solution for the North American Auto industry - have the gov't slap a larger import fee (or tax), say $5,000 per car, (don't know if they already do) which gets split amongst the Big 3. Then the consumers that want the imports, not the taxpayers, help out some major employers in these two countries. Am sick of our industries looking to the gov for taxpayer handouts in a market economy. Yes socialist Canada is still a market economy. If the Gov of Canada wants to do something for the employees, maybe a role in guaranteeing pensions or something for the workers could help, but that is looking after the people first, the company second. Just some wacky thoughts from out west where the Upper and Lower Canadians think we don't care, we do.

M M B Ont
said

Herb above says 'The ineptitude of the Harper gov't means that these people will not have the assistance they will require'. Here you go blaming harper again for something he has no control over! Get a life. Harper does not work gor GM or the big 3 !!! The unions are a big part of the problem in this mess in the big 3. They negotiate High wages and benefits from the companies. $72.00 per /hr US wage is a pretty hefty wage and compared to $10.00 per hr that a lot of Canadians make, these people should have been able to salt away enough money to help them survive for many years of lay off!
Quit blaming the gov't for this one and you are sounding a lot like Layton.. full of Hate toward the Conservatives. Get a life !

Sick of the BS
said

Yeah .. now they want the Canadian Government to pony up some money for the AMERICAN company Execs to do with as they please. Why is it that when a company is MISMANAGED, taxpayers all over the world have to kick in funds. GM has LOTS of money and all they have to do is forget about their Christmas parties, conventions in Las Vegas, car shows, bonuses for the Execs; yeah again .. they have lots of money. It seems lately everyone has their hand out to the Goverment for money, like it is the Government's fault that they are too stupid to manage a business. I smell rats somewhere and it is at all the big 3

Judy - Montreal
said

Production slow downs/shutdowns and layoffs should have been taking place sooner than now - they've seen their inventory building for awhile - maybe they wouldn't have needed so much bailout monies. A production line is the first in any well managed business to slow down or stop completely. What took them so long? They presumed they could get thorough bail out from the governments...Give us a break! The families can down grade their highstyle living a little like all the other average Canadian families are doing in this present economy instead of hiding behind the unions to fight for their high wages - The whole thing is an absolute shame. Never mind just bail out - the government should take over management of the companies completely and appoint average Canadian Citizens who know how to watch their pennies to run the Corporations - maybe we'd see some results. A little too late for their announcing slow downs/shut downs though - it makes the average taxpayer truly believe they were above the rest of us struggling

Tom Hawley
said

GM to shut down for the month of January ?Black mail?
What if it did ? People that work for GM would be no different than the rest who have worked and now find themselves with out employment.I do not mean any disrespect to those that are worried for their jobs.
To start ,the not so Big Three should shut down.Restructure and go forward.Stop paying the over inflated salaries and bonuses .
The plant workers need to sit down with a pen and paper and do some math of their own.Union heads are paid quite well.Workers settle for less guess what the heads need to do.If a worker makes thirty dollars an hour and asked to take a cut of three-four dollars an hour would this not put them in a lower tax bracket?Pay less taxes? Perhaps it would all amount to the same or very close at years end.This including your tax return.
Maybe some will come ahead .

Brendan Burke
said

As far as I'm concerned they made their bed so let them sleep in it. Toyota is thriving in the SAME economy. Perhaps the executives should give some concessions to the workers, management made poor decisions so they should work out a plan to fix those problems, and by fix I DON"T mean ask the taxpayers for help. Just because Ford, Chrysler, and GM ran their companies into the ground doesn't mean we should pick up the pieces. Be grown ups and take responsibility for your actions!

Bob (Ont)
said

Tammy

Would you rather take $5/hr less or have no job at all? Don't you think that employees of a company should be paid a wage which allows the company to be profitable and continue into the future? Is it fair that taxpayers money should be flushed down the toilet simply to ensure that auto workers don't take a pay cut? I'll tell you right now that if you're worried about auto workers not being able to afford cars and mortgages then maybe a pay cut is in order so jobs can be maintained. Maybe auto workers should learn to earn a good wage the way all non-union employees earn their wage..........through good job performance, not how many years you have worked!!!

Dave Niagara
said

I don't see why nobody see's how the car industry got into trouble in the first place. I worked in the auto industry for 4o years and I've seen it all along. Wages have always been too extreme. I was a professional tradesman and these people made triple what I ever made just for standing beside a robot all day and driving bolts into a car in a nice clean facility. And to get benefits after retirement??? Come on!! How many jobs pay the equivalent to close to $80.00 an hour for knowing nothing.And now they won't take a break to save their own jobs. GOOD!!!Close the plants,,I'm tired of their greed!Then all these money grabbing sleeping on the job knowing every union labor rule to save their lazy ass people will be out of a job. But hey,,,they can sit back and in confidence say " we don't let anybody push us around"!!!

REFORMED CAR SALESMAN
said

I used to sell Chrysler Vehicles.

And I'll tell you something that might shock you.
When someone buys a car, and they get a "great Deal", in all actuality, they dont. See most people buy MSRP, or a couple thousand under. but what they dont tell you is that there is a huge manufacturer rebate on almost every model, and that rebate gets sent to what ever dealership sells the car...the rebate is in a lot of cases between 5-10 thousand dollars. so in reality, the dealership selling the vehuile, makes a ton of maney YOU could have had if you knew about it.

I have no sympathy for the auto makers, they got themselves into this mess, they were warned countless times that they were over spending and they didnt listen.

There was an Meeting 2 years ago at Chrysler regarding the possibility of an economic slow down, and they just laughed, and kept on spending money.

I think the economy needs one or two automakers to go under to balance everything out. and Quite frankly, I hope it happens.

Mike
said

What about the thousands of jobs that were lost in the Forestry industry in Northern Ontario and elswhere in Canada. Toronto did not care. Why should we care about the auto industry?

Chris
said

I find it amazing that when we gave money to banking sector knowbody was screaming for all the employees to take wage cuts but for the auto sector the first thing everyone is doing is blaming the worker. The guy on the line does not decide which car to build and how many to build. The Japanese auto makers pay a very similar wage as the big 3 and they are doing better because they build cars people want. It is time to stop blaming the middle class for the falures of the guys getting paid Millions to make decisions.

vince in trenton
said

Just a thought....If my money is used to bail out these mismanaged companies does that mean I am now a stock holder or is just out of the goodness of my heart??? When I need a bailout for screwing up my finances can I apply for one of these bailout packages and where do I do so???Just a thought. How come Honda,Toyota and the other European companies are doing better than the big 3???? QUALITY SELLS..........

Canada Goose Whistler
said

Please have faith in your PM he sad our economy was in good shape, why else would he have sent everyone home.
We have a stable economy there is no way Mr Harper would spend 2.4 million X 7 yrs on his 18 friends if there was a problem. I bet you hes out there right now investing your tax dollar in skate boards & horses.

Al
said

Here's an idea! Why doesn't the government use some of that 53 Billion surplus that they've already taken from us in EI premiums and instead of lending the automakers money, just subsidize employee wages to the tune of eight or ten billion and free up company cash for re-structuring?
If we allow the companies to go under, we'll just be spending it on unemployment claims anyways....win win?

Too Far Gone, Needs Restructuring
said

Sad to say, but it's too far gone now. I feel for the blue-collared hard workers as it is them that will be affected the most. However, if GM would be listening to what people want and what the environment needs, they would've been making fuel-efficient and electric vehicles long ago when some people suggested it instead of having so many unsold dinasour SUVs sitting on their lots. I think Toyota and Honda are doing fine aren't they?

Tom
said

Its mind boggling that the UAW would let there industry tank rather than making some major consessions. Given that and managements reluctance to adjust to changing market demands I say let em go bankrupt. These bailouts are an insult to the taxpayers.

mike
said

wow! after reading all these comments I can't believe how many canadians are willing to make comments on situations they know nothing about. GM workers make around 32 dollars an hour,If you think for 1 minute the company is spending another 40 dollars/hr on benefits your crazy.Thats a extra $83,200

Halifax taxpayer
said

When the auto workers start making concessions and only then should tax payers assist. The government didn't bail me out when I lost me job

DJKoop, Manitoba
said

I say let them go bankrupt and shut down. There will be other companies that will buy the pants, retool and build better cars. Most people would be re-hired into the industry. Who says that they have to work for a North American car company? Even in these tough time Toyota opened a new plant the employs 1200 people.

Dave
said

Funny how I was talking to one of the GM worker about couple weeks ago and found out that he's been working overtime, Saturday and sometimes even Sunday for a while now. So how do they justify all these overtimes during the times that they say they struggling financially.

MMK
said

I do not think we can afford to let car industry go to the bankruptcy route. The consequences on the overall economy will be too great. Current situation is not created by them either. We have to help them with conditional loans and then force the economy to restructure to better compete with the imports

Paul B in Ottawa
said

6 Hybrid vehicles within the entire GM line-up is not huge when compared their entire vehicle lineup. Also, their price-point is not nearly as competitive. Most of their hybrids are on larger vehicles and not their smaller offerings which is where you would see the major savings for those that want low emission vehicles. A hybrid SUV is still far worse then a sedan.

Furthermore, I agree with what most of you are saying. Taxpayer money should not be sent to industries that are failing unless they have a plan to become competitive again. Or better yet, have the gov't provide an incentive for buying hybrid vehicles, which would send a signal to the auto-makers to start building more hybrids.

Paul

Scene
said

To those that argue Gm makes fuel efficent cars, and Hybrids ect. the problem isn't really the options, it's the quality. Your parts keep breaking down, and even though your cars/ truck are cheap to buy brand new, it drains your pocket when you have to keep fixing them. You want to know why people buy forigen veichles because they are of better quality, and the cost for them is relativly similar. Ask yourself do you know why parts might be cheap, and cars are of poor quality, maybe because the company had to make cuts to pay over inflated saleries, from the CEO, to the guy/ woman on the line, to the janitor sweeping. Your all to blame in the is GM, CHRYSTLER, CAW, UAW ect. Everybody is pointing the finger and no one is working together, so why do we (Canadians) want to spend our tax dollars on bailing all of you out again?

Chris Hodgson in Ontariariari-OH!
said

Are we as taxpayers expected to do the heavy lifting for these auto workers who are going to be laid off? What can we do?These guys will get 85%of their wage when they get their E.I. top up plus benefits,most guys just get their E.I.Most contracts this covers them for a year if they laid off.The auto industry as a whole is suffering due to slow sales,Honda and Toyota have both announced cutbacks.Is this more political because those affected are mostly c.a.w. workers?Is this going to cause more pressure from the "Grand Coalition"to put more taxpayers money out there to save them?Just a whole lot of questions to which I'm afraid to hear the answer.

NS-NICK
said

This message is in response to Brittany's Message:

I am aware the GM makes hybrid vehicles, but the fact that GM has been making (im my opinion) sub standard vehicles for years has hurt their position in the Automotive Industry. I buy imports because I know they are going to work well for a long time. I have owned 3 GM vehilces .. bought new. The resale value sucks, I have paid $$$ hundreds to repair my vehicles and quite frankly, I cannot afford a car payment and repairs monthly. Unfortunatley GM, Ford and Chrysler will need a makeover and I say charity begins at home. Credut takes a long time to go bad, therefore it will take a long time to repair.

Richard Murray
said

The refusal of union concessions are comming from the union boss's. Why is government not demanding that the union rank and file be consulted on this, (a secret vote).
If union wages are cut, union dues will decrease, limiting the millions of dollars flowing into the union coffers, so union fat-cats will not get as much swill from the trough.
The overwelming opinion on all the boards, including this one, shows that labour should be part of the fix, or they should expect only the back of the hand from taxpayers.

Nancy St. John's, NL
said

It is so funny. When they are in trouble the expect the Cdn government (taxpayers) to bail them out but what happens when they are making record profits? Do they pay money back to the government, I think not !! I feel sorry for all the people who will loose their jobs but it is a case of "Survival of the Fittest".

Andrea
said

Respondng to Chris,

You hit the jackpot on this one.

I agree with you, I think when Obama starts on Jan.27th, the 1st thing he should do is sit down with our PM, and try to discuss ways to change the NAFTA agreement.

When the agreement was signed by Mulroney, the USA economy was good, and now it is not so good.That is why the trade agreement has to change.Make it more fair!

Karl from GTA
said

It seems that most everyone is on the "destroy the union" bandwagon. Well, imagine this... according to an Auto Industry insider...

The price of labor on a $25,000 vehicle is $900. If the ENITRE UNION worked for free for the next year, it would only result in $11B in savings. Not much considering how much in debt these companies are.

The real cost savings for the Big 3 should be found in reducing the number of lines of vehicles they produce, reduce the top-heavy management paradigm, and work to deliver a quality product by focusing on the few good vehicle types they can produce.

Government loans (fully payable like the Chrysler Loan Guarantees in the '80s) should be made available, only once a new management structure is implemented and a new business plan is proposed. Once completed, a watchdog committee should be implemented to ensure our tax dollars are being managed properly.

Just my two cents.

C in the West
said

There is nothing to bail out here---throwing money at these companies will not change the fact that they are making a product which isnt going to sell. I gaurantee if we give $6Billion today we will just delay the inevitable bankruptcy.
Very sad for all of you autoworkers, but you have no right to the canadian taxpayers money. This is only reinforced by your unions inability to negotiate.
Wish you well. money , in 6 months or a year they willwhen you cannot make profit selling cars you start again.

sean
said

These layed off people should not be surprised. This has happened because they are all overpaid. I'm surprised they arent shutting them down for good.

ik in Ontario
said

The government can do whatever they want, but if we are not buying the cars the big 3 are in trouble. I believe it is time for serious wage cuts all the way from the top (real serious in this area - let them work for stock options only) down to the guys on the line. Don't tell me how hard you are working. My dad worked at GM for over 30 years and he was disgusted with how some of the employees enjoyed running scrap and wasting company time. It is time the unions got real.

Ian Millard
said

The unions time is done.
They are refusing a pay cut to preserve their jobs, in effect saying, they want 100% of nothing, rather than a job with at least some future.
What's worse, the 'big three' continue to produce big trucks & SUVs, in the face of gas prices that will rise again.
If they can't learn to bail, let them sink.

Brent Woodstock Ontario
said

Let me begin by saying that I am a dues paying CAW member, working on an assembly line building vehicles for one of the "Detroit Three", so some might think that this is biased. It may very well be, but it is also more informed than some of the other comments.
Myth#1 Caw members make $75 an hour with benifits.
Not true. That figure was an estimate if the CAW had gotten all it was asking for in the last roiund of negotiations. The figure is actually closer to $50-$55. (of which not many, if any, of us complain about)

Myth#2 Wage concessions would make a huge difference. Not so. It takes, on average 20 hours to build a vehicle in Canada, therefore, even at the high end of our wages, a cut of 50% would result in a savings of $550

Myth #3 They don't build what the public wants. If this was so, they'd have been out of business long ago.

Myth #4 The "Detroit Three" brought this on themselves. No. As much as I would love to lay the blame on mismanagement, I can't. The economy south of the border has tanked drastically in the past 12 months, banks have gone under, people are loosing their houses and jobs at a record pace. If you have to hand over the keys to your house, you're not about to go out and buy a new vehicle.

Before thios turns into a rant, just let me say "Careful what you wish for...you just may get it"

Craig in Calgary
said

My little website development business is losing money right now. Of course, our customers want flash and we refuse to provide it and they are taking their business elsewhere. I pay all of my staff twice as much as my competition. Offer ridiculous pensions and take a hefty salary as the only executive. Hmmmm. Why am I failing? Doesn't matter. I'm just going to ask the government to help me out with a little bailout money. It's the new North American solution. I may never have to offer flash and upgrade my skills and my staff will remain overpaid. Ain't life grand!

westguy
said

the unions are the worst thing to ever happen to Canada definition of union is greed now the auto workers can get the house payments from the unions.come back to reality and get payed the same as other Canadians no ones worth what auto workers get payed they have been spoiled rotten for years get a grip and while your at it sell some of your assets that should keep you going for a few years.i have a friend that works in Oshawa ive seen his paychecks unreal how much union dues go to pay the ceos southern holidays lol.

soup kitchen employee
said

Wow!I thought autoworkers had to pay taxes too.By the sound of some people out there its their tax dollars and not ours.These people must be bank workers and its THEIR money.

John (Montreal)
said

The 3 auto makers should restructure. The union workers who are going to be out of job at least for 6 weeks are paying the price and that is sad. Nevertheless, giving money to the auto companies is not going to make a difference. It will probably improve the situation for a very short while but they will come back and ask for more money. The problem is much deeper than throwing money at the companies. The management, the quality, and the priorities should be changed and/or updated. Crapy Chrysler cars should be taken off the market. How many recalls has Ford made in past decade? I am not going to say because it is embarrassing. Those 3 companies used to be the leaders in the auto industry and until they restructure, there is no point in giving them taxpayers money.

Eastern Bob
said

Here is what would get my support for a bail out. The union needs to take a small cut in pay and benefits. The Board of Directors have to resign, no settlement. You have failed in your responsibility to run the car companies... go... now... without compensation. The entire executive, President, Vice Presidents everyone at that levl, like wise have failed and need to repay any bonuses and stock options "earned" in the last five years and resign, without compensation. Get together a nbew board, hire new execs with new ideas. Where to find them? Ask the heads of Westjet and Virgin. Thats the way to resturcture the car busines

A TRUE STORY WHY WE DON'T BUY NA CARS!!!
said

Here's a story for ya.

Back in 1995, I had broken the tiny little plastic end on the linkage cable that is attached to the gear shifter. I didn't need the cable itself replaced, just the piece that was easily replaceable as it was fastened on by a simple screw. My research into the part priced it at only 7 dollars. Instead of selling me the part, the auto industry told me that I had to replace the WHOLE cable at a cost of $350 dollars!!! That's why I don't buy North American pieces of crap anymore!!!

Ontario Tina
said

People fail to realize that if the big 3 go under, the Japanese auto makers here in the North America could potentially follow! People also seem to forget about all the jobs that will be lost by suppliers and sub-suppliers. I work for a Toyota based supplier and I can tell you my wage certainly isn't over $20/hour! I will be off 3 weeks over Christmas.....unpaid.

Bill from Oshawa
said

Let me float an idea here. If a person is a member of a union working for a company that is receiveing government aid to prevent bankrupcy and therefore putting this money at risk, then they should not be eligiable for unemployment payments unless they make appropriate wage concessions

Don - Fiscal ignorance abounds!
said

Finally, a sensible idea from GM.
When the financial costs of still likely auto bailouts, the recession & environmental demands from the EU, native leaders & the global-warming neurotics it will surpass even Coalition Party spending plans. Evidently few people realise that a billion dollar is over $300,000 for every Canadian!

Jim Allan
said

Iwould like to know just what the financial implications are for the workers when the are laid off.
Do they get paid something from the auto company and something from the government?

Paul
said

My comments are directed to those complaining how this will put our friends, family and neighbours out of work.

If their own unions are not willing to help them why should I?

Neither them or their unions would lift a finger if my business were to experience financial difficulties.

Besides some of my friends, neighbours and relatives are car-makers....at Toyota

These peole earn their money and produce quality vehicles.

Business is simple. Compete or go out of business.

No sympathy here.

Alysha Ont
said

The big 3 in Canada and the Unions must work something out and take a wage cut and not rely on taxpayers to bail them out completely. To someone who said that people nned to make over $20.00 per/hr well wake up. There are many many Canadians working for way less than $20.00 per hr and many working two jobs at minimum wage. Tough times are coming and tough measures must be taken to survive ! The silver platter is empty !

Marc
said

Why haven't these companies seen this coming?? They should have re-structured a long time ago - like other business. Giving money to GM with the same management is a bad investment for taxpayers. They haven't paid back previous loans.

tony
said

The reason there is no market for American cars in Japan is that Japan need Right Hand Drive vehicles and the big 3 make Left Hand Drive.

Cambob
said

Where is my New Car? If I pay taxes I expect to get something of value in return. (Better roads, law enforcement, schools, etc)

So, if you want to spend my tax dollars on a car company, where is my new car?

Jay from E-Town
said

Let them die. Time for these people to find a job doing something or somewhere else. Why in the world would the government blow tax payer money to prop up these companies just because their products suck and no one buys them. That's absolutely crazy. The exectutives in these companies aren't sufferring. They make more money in a day then most of these workers make in a year. I hope Ottawa will make the right decision and let these companies end up where they belong!

Support of NA industry
said

If those of you who want the NA auto industry to fail honestly believe that it will not affect you - you'd better wake up soon. There will be a huge fallout of massive proportions. Of course we should loan them the money!! Every other country with an ailing auto industry (Sweden, France, Italy to name a few) has already approved loans and it didn't take grovelling! Who is Congress to lecture Detroit on how to spend money!! What a joke. And let's face it, those who have lower paying jobs are basically jealous. There are all kinds of discrepancies in wages in all types of industry - so what. It's the luck of the draw as to what type of job you get. And please - give me a break about the "big three making crap cars" - another crazy perception that will kill so many jobs when they produce some of the best on the market. And as one person said, check out the GM website with it's great line up of hybrids. It's all there.

It is the responsibility of the taxpayers to help ailing industries which provide millions of jobs - because it will be your job next!!

Paul in Halifax
said

I love My Ford. Seems they are in the best shape of the big three. In August of 08 I decided I wanted a new car. My only Toyota I ever owned was a great vehicle. But... At that time Ford was loosing an estimated $ 1,500 per vehicle. So was I doing them a favour by buying or not buying a Ford. I made the decision to buy the Ford. They have been innovative in their vehicles and product mix. Unlike GM they listened to their customers. The UCAW needs to understand they work for the customer. The one's who go into the showroom and sign on the dotted line.

Randall
said

Traitors! You talk about being patriots and most of you hypocrites drive foreign vehicules, you subscribe to the "greener on the other side" clan. Every purchase I make takes into account where the product is made, we need to support our own. The people you know that lost their jobs is because most of you prefer to buy something from over seas. Wake up!

VW driver
said

Maybe the "big 3" were paying people waaay too much money to put the same bolt in the same hole for 8 hours a day . It was bound to happen sooner or later , and I for dont feel like paying to help them. What is their mark-up on a car ? I`m sure it doesn`t cost $40,000 to build a new car ,just a thought .

Mel from Calgary
said

Many asian countries drive cars with the steering wheel on the right side of the car. How many vehicles do we assemble in Canada with this design?

The cargo ships that bring the imports over here could be used to take our cars back the other way.

The unionised plant workers here spend their money in the local economy, they do not put it in offshore accounts. Lets not beat up on people who actually are producing goods in this country.

Paul Brantford
said

GM said sorry for QUALITY

I had 2 GM products BOTH WERE RECALLED !!!

NO THANK YOU
BYE BYE GM

Joe Schmitt
said

Boo hoo. The unions indicated they are not willing to make concessions. Why throw good monay after bad. Enjoy your Christmas break you lazy uniopn socialist fools. I will laugh and wave at you as I pass by you on the soup lines in my Honda Civic.

Murray@Cobourg
said

Oh Wow G.M. shuts down for a month that does not affect the workers as they get a sub pay and collect unemployment...Nice holiday!!!Probably a lot of them will head south for the holiday...Take away the sub pay and see what would happen...Cry,Cry,Cry...It only affects the suppliers who do not get the sub pay and are PAID LESS..

Cindy
said

Bailing out the auto industry with the tax payer's dollars is not going to keep my neighbor working.

If they want to stay in business and the government is committed helping them then the first thing that should be done is a roll back on the wages starting with the top players!

Instead of giving them billions of dollars to waste once again...the government should give every Canadian of legal driving age a $10,000.00 incentive to be used toward the purchase of a new vehicle. This vehicle MUST be purchased from one of the big 3. Thereby creating a demand for their product which will ultimatley stimulate the market and my neighbor will keep his job.

Mike
said

Here is an interesting thought and manybe I am missing something here but, if I was a competitor of a business that is on the brink of bankruptcy I certainly would be looking to buy either the technology, IP or the company out right. So, why is there no talks or wispers of foreign companies making bids to buy the big three? What am I missing here?

Not too much symapthy in Ontario
said

Hey Tammy,
I make alot lower that 20/hr and I seem to be able to afford my house. I also drive a american car which I can afford. What ppl are saying is that most autoworkers have been living high on the hog and have had their heads in the clouds for so long that their preception of what is affordable has become fuzzy. Of course no one wants to lose their jobs but wouldn't taking a wage cut seem like a more sensable thing to do than no job at all. And don't blame the lower paid Canadian without union safety nets because you can't afford your home and "cars" without making 30/hr.
I agree that the management needs to take one for the team as well maybe cancel the trip to europe or sell one of their luxery items. But we are all feeling the pinch.
Don't blame the government because you live out of normal sensable means and probably don't have a nest egg to help you out.
My tax dollars are stretched to the hilt already, I don't feel like paying for your cottage up north.

brian
said

Let's just start writing every person in a union a cheque! Regardless of how unefficient, unpractical and greedy they are. Someone working minimum wage needs protection not, someone who makes 70k plus a year and hasn't made the concessions to make THEIR company more competitive. Next time read the fine print when you sign your union card!

BC Busa
said

I recall an auto analyst stating not too long ago that they predicted a purchasing "bubble" with the offering of low interest loans. The day would come when few would "need" a new vehicle. Say hello to the bubble. In all fairness to the industry the development of automobiles is a long one and who could have predicted the ups and downs the economy has been seeing in recent years. We all have to take responsibility for the popularity of huge accessory filled Hummers, Pick ups and SUVs over the course of the last several years. If the price of fue; remained at 50 cents/ltr we wouldn't be facing this hurdle. All I can say is we wouldn't be talking about a bail out plan had this been an industry located anywhere outside Ontario. Wow no auto industry and suddenly the resource rich west takes the driver's seat. I relish the day.

Cody
said

My dad came from Eurpoe with 40$ in his pocket built a business and never asked for hand outs from the government. He is doing quite well thank you. If you can not make your business work and are not willing to change your ways, then go bankrupt and let someone else be smart about business. There are companies that are suceeding and let them make a go of it. Where are we supposed to draw the line with bailing out? Where do I send my credit card statement for someone to pay? The big 3 got themselves into this and they alone should get themselves out of it. The management should have begun building electric, hydbrids, hydrogen cars years ago and then they would be rolling in the dough! Suffer and go under, I do not support my tax money going to private companies.

Merry Christmas.

CJ in Alberta
said

For those bashing Alberta...Go back to the start of the 90's...many Albertans did indeed take pay cuts. It was hard on a lot of people, but in the end the province came out much stronger.

The unions must take a pay cut to be taken seriously.

mlb66
said

the biggest critics to the bailout are people employed by the government. I wish we could outsource civil servant jobs, such as teachers, bureaucrats, public employees, etc. We would save billions of dollars and get proper service.

Matt C in Calgary
said

The majority of the vehicles manufactured here in Canada are exported to the U.S. With the financial problems in the states (due to a host of reasons) there isn't the demand. That is simply a market dynamic. That being said, the CAW is partly responsible (perhaps even largely responsible) for the lack of competetiveness in the auto industry. They have coerced the Big 3 into providing wages which are not proportional to the level of skill that an assembly line job requires. There is something seriously askew when an assembly line worker with minimal training and education is making a six-figure salary.

For the government to provide assistance in the way of a bailout or a loan but not address the underlying problems (i.e. excessive wages, militant unions, poor vehicle design,...etc.) is completely unethical. As a taxpayer I am only in favour of government assistance if the automakers and the unions provide a detailed plan which includes serious cost-cutting on all sides.

A union whose objective is to get as much as possible for its members is not concerned with the common good. Likewise, an automaker whose objective is to make as much profit as possible, is not necessarily concerned with the common good either. Everyone involved should be concerned with the common good.

Cambob
said

A little restuarant down the street went out of business last week. Why isn't the government giving them a cash infusion? Why aren't my tax dollars going to a local, hard working, CANADIAN business?

Oh yeah, their food sucked and thier staff was rude.

spencer
said

Can someone explain to me how we are to ask the fellow making $12 an hour to bail out a guy making $30 ?????

Perhaps the best thing that could happen if for the big three to have a taste of ''creditor protection'' and see just how they will cut costs. After all, if they were competitive price wise there would not be a problem.
The cash for life mentality does not extend only to UAW members, but has been a problem from top to bottom.

Laura
said

To all the people who claim that buying 'domestic' supports Canadian workers, and buying 'foreign' cars doesn't.
I own a Honda Civic.
It was built in Ontario, with parts built in Ontario.
GM's Pontiac Sunfire? Assembled in Mexico.
Which is the more home-grown car?

Len in Winnipeg
said

15,000,000,000 in the US works out to approx. 50$ per capita.
In Canada they are asking for 6.9 billion which works out to about 185$ per capita.
we only have auto jobs if the companies are stabe in the US.

Miss Auga - Ottawa
said

Too bad for the union. But you deserve it. You are factory workers, not brain surgeons. Anyone can do your job. At $30/hour in pay, there are a lot of minimum wage workers who would love to do your job at half your present pay.
You were greedy and now, you may not have any job.
What's wrong with a 20% pay cut? I could absorb a 20% pay cut. It wouldn't be nice, but I'd still be able to pay all my bills. If you can't absorb a pay cut, then maybe you are living beyond your means.

Sandy
said

Let them go bankrupt. Poor boo-boos are just whining because they are not going to be getting their Christmas bonus as well as a new car (as they do EACH YEAR for Christmas)...TOUGH! Go work for somewhere like McDonald's for a month and that would shut you up as it would hopefully open your eyes to see just what greedy li'l b@st@rds you really are. DON'T BAIL THEM OUT!

Paul in Mississauga
said

Let the big three die without throwing taxpayers' dollars into their all-consuming mouths. (See disaster of this with British Leyland!) The share and bond holders are responsible for funding their mindless leadership of the past 30+ years, so let them pay for their money mistakes.

The union employees may be overpaid, but who the heck signed these stupid contracts? (Oh ya, see above)

Let the three go into bankruptcy and then have the government jump in and provide credit for the re-launch of viable plants and products.

Attention should be paid to the assistance of parts plants to weather the storm and retool to the 'new' domestic industry's needs.

It will be sad and nasty at times, but please do not give us 3 walking corpses like British Leyland.

Richie in Hamilton, ON
said

There's quite a few disturbing comments here abut free trade... I'm not sure if you people know this but Hyundai, Toyota, Suburu ALL MAKE CARS IN NORTH AMERICA, THEY EMPLOY NORTH AMERICANS. Stop spreading these lies that you can't compete with third world labour. There's also this comment from "Tammy" saying, "Should we all just get jobs that pay less than $20 an hour?" Well guess what Tammy, YES YOU SHOULD! If you don't have any skills, you should not be making $70 an hour, WAKE UP. We don't care about CAW's mortgages and car loans, you guys have been artificially living it up for WAY too long now and frankly, I'm happy to watch you fall back down to the bottom with the rest of us.

Conrad
said

Let them die off. The bailout is a band-aid solution and will only prolong their deaths. Huge unionized salaries and inferior cars is a bad combination. Buying foreign cars is the way to go, I don't see myself ever buying domestic.

Paul, GTA
said

I am curious, in what line of work are the people are in who are against helping the auto sector. Can they not understand that all are interconnected and need each other. That it would be absolutely impossible to take this number of jobs out of the ecomony and not have it affect all of us. Use some reason people, we need each other.

mike
said

the big three can crash and burn - the demand for vehicles will be filled by the other more efficient manufacturers - out of the ashes will a new more streamlined entity be born, minus the bloodsucking UAW & CAW

Git R'done

john from nova scotia
said

Its going to be a good thing when they are gone! If you cant sell a decent product that doesnt break down all the time. (former owner of a few gm's) then you shouldnt be in the business. Another company will rise to the top.Gm use to make a decent product 20 / 30 years ago but thats when the employees took pride in their work!!!! Now they are all just greedy!!!!!!!!!!from the ceo down

Bill from Whitby
said

Tammy, don't take wage cuts and see where you will be. Get your head out of the sand is $20 and hour better than no job at all. I will be honest with you when people apply at our place of business and they have worked in the auto industry we do not give them a second look because they will never be happy because in the real world $15 to $18 an hour is a good wage and everyone outside of a union member would be glad to make that kind of money. Make your choice but remember it is your choice so live with it.

David H
said

The UAW and CAW don't have to worry about making concessions - once the Big Three declare bankruptcy there won't be any employed Union members in the auto industry in Canada or America. The resulting automotive companies that arise from the ashes of economic failure will outsource all their jobs to third world countries.

Peter from Toronto
said

Here's my plan. Give the big 3 the billions they want. At a reasonable interest rate, to be paid back in so many years. If not, the big 3 in Canada give the companies to us. And we get all the unsold cars from their storage lots now. We sell them at half price. Vans to utility companies, vans to meals on wheels, Rotary, out of the cold, etc; pickups to municipal departments, hydro, gas, highway. No sales to individuals.

MuskyBuck
said

Semantics.

Everyone here has an arguement for the little details.

A car is only that. A product. Something saleable.

If mankind as of 2008 is being measured for what we produce, you'd think we'd all be a species that lives off and produces...cars.

It's crazy. What's the difference between a car, or a waterbed?

Outside of the obvious that not everyone needs a waterbed, or depends on a waterbed daily etc etc but my point is to illustrate that it's just a consumable product, not something that defines us or all life on this earth depends on.

Other businesses will make cars.

Other companies will start and give these workers jobs.

We don't need to protect a company, that is monopolizing.

Let smaller, more effeciently run companies buy out the left overs of a bankruptcy and let's carry on.

Angus
said

Don't slam the imports, they are the only ones that are providing new high paying jobs in Canada and United States!

Saverio Prato
said

Unfortunate fact of life. No sense at all to manufacture product that will not sell. Perhaps by reducing supply they'll increase demand? The manufactures AND the labour Unions need a large dose of reality to restructure for the new REAL world ahead. Public money should NOT be used to bail out an industry that has lost touch with reality. If it takes going bankrupt and starting all over, so be it.

Art Samuels
said

how come the oil and gas industry is silent so far since it is their industry that lately has been getting record profits from those same the cars and trucks, they should pony up some money to save the big three. maybe they need a coalition.

Neil. Calgary
said

So, during this layoff, will the union still get 95% of their wage? If not, it will be a good to experience what it will be like to live on EI if the company goes down period. It is not pretty and at some point, employees will decide that less is better than nothing. Why not make that decision now?

Some food for thought, some worry about the economy in the east if the autoworkers lose their jobs and houses. Please also consider a situation where a Liberal "green shift" type program kills the economy out west. Will you bail us out?

Sue, Verner
said

I believe that if the Unions workers want to keep their jobs then they really need to consider taking a pay cut. There is no need for their union members to be making 25 - 30 an hour when many people in Canada and the US live well on half that wage. If the Union memebers were not so selfish they could take a temporary pay cut until the recession is over and the demand for automobiles is higher again. Everyone thinks it's serious but the people that can do soemthing about it, seem to rather want to go on welfare or social assistance then actually work, there is no excuse for these union workers to bring down the rest of the ecomony with them and cause more trouble then a simple wage cut.

Gail (Hamilton)
said

This is strictly about political payback in the US and Canada has been pulled into this whole mess. The workers are caught in the middle between government bailout and the UAW's rise to become more powerful. If the UAW get their bailout, and the majority Dems pass legislation to enable them to grow membership and get into every business, they will have kept their promise to their biggest supporter. Deficit spending only prolongs a recession. What is being asked of private business should apply to government first, lest they become the micro managers.

R in Ontario
said

Let's stop calling them "imports". These cars & trucks are now mostly built right down the American or Canadian road, right across the road from the "Detroit 3" factories. They are building better products with better management.
They too are hurting with this economic turmoil and are doing some cutbacks. But they are not and will not ask or need BILLION dollar bailouts.

M.H.
said

Accepting a pay cut to the level of the Japanese plants would be a small price to pay and a logical one. Should bankruptcy take place, the pay levels will be down to the levels needed or lower. In addition at least one of the "BIG" three will not survive. A lower pay wage seems to be the smart way to go along with cutting the pension commitments by 50% to the workers on pensions. Doing these two options will bring the auto workers back into the real world. I had two manufacturing businesses in the 70's and when the 1980 recession hit , both businesses could not be sustained and I lost them. I accepted that and never thought of whinning to any government for a bail out package.....of course I only had 10 employees. Back then you could multiply my situation by at leat 5000 and that would have represented 50,000 out of work and 5000 defunct businesses. No bail out for any of them ! My employees really worked hard and unfortuantely we were never able to provide the golden pensions the auto workers received. I worked for corporations involved in the automotive business and I saw first hand how workers performed. If the unions and management had pulled together todays senario may have been different. It's a global competetive economy, giving $15 billion or even $50 billion to the auto industry will not sustain them. The workers and staff MUST change the 100 year old adversarial mind-set to compete. If they do so, they can regain the world leadership in automotive. If they don't, GM, Chrysler and Ford will fade into the annals of history.

Pete
said

You people amaze me, auto workers pay taxes too! In fact more than the rest of you and without that money we are all in trouble? As for everyone calling it a bailout, call it what it is a LOAN that they all have to pay back. NONE of your money is going to the Big 3 as a gift. As for wages, they are 7% of the price of a vehicle, in layman terms everyone in GM could work for nothing for a year and GM would stay alive for only 11 extra days. As well if the Big 3 give up wages everyone will. Give your heads a shake, wake up and see this for what it is. This is a chance for the economy to stabilize and everyone get on with the rest of their lives unless everyone wants to give up what we have and truly be in the second Great Deppression.

John Goldsmith
said

What will the overall savings be for the Auto industry? Will the Executive of these companies be reducing their wage and benefits? Will the cost savings be deducted from the estimated bailout dollars?
Have they presented a solid plan for 2009? Are the unions willing to take short term rollbacks for long term security? Question? Comments

KMC (Markham. ON)
said

Well, given the apparent U.S. failure to bail out the "Big Three", it would appear that Harper was right all along.

Had he given in to the demands by the NDP/Liberal "coalition", to pour billions of the taxpayers' dollars into the Canadian auto manufacturers
it seems, at this point, that would have been money down the drain.

Thankfully,, it was Harper in the Prime Minister's chair and not Jack Layton, Bob Rae and the Liberals.

The Federal Government can do nothing, until the U.S. makes a final decision on whether to bail out the "big three" or to let them go bankrupt and restructure.To do otherwise could, simply, turn out to be a huge loss of billions of the taxpayer's dollars.

As for sending the U.S. a "strong message that we understand...", they already know that. Canada's Industry Minister is in the U.S. attempting to help come up with a solution to preserve Canadian jobs.

Pierre-Guy
said

Britanny

That'S unfortunately how free trade works. Competition decides who survives and who dies. the big 3 have failed their costumers; therefore, they fail themselves

PG from regina

William Henry
said

So, GM is shutting down production.
Meanwhile, in Woodstock, Ontario, the town is booming and Toyota just opened a new non-union manufacturing plant to build vehicles.

Marc Coquitlam B.C.
said

If any bailout is done with our tax dollars, I would hope it would be proportional. If the Detroit 3 need 15 billion, then 5 billion can come from taxpayers, 5 billion can come from workers, and 5 billion from management. That would be a workabel solution in my opinion. This bailout should also be a one time agreement. If the comapnay comes back looking for more in the future, then slam the door on their faces. Spend between your means, and save some money. That is how I survive slow downs or job loss. If I can do it, they can do it.

Gord in Hamilton
said

The Bush Administration gave the Big 3 the cue to go ahead with this request when they bailed out the banks and insurance companies down there. They are as much to blame as the auto companies and unions.

This proves once again that socialism and government intervention is okay only when times are bad.

These companies need to sink or swim based on their own business acumen not on the backs of the taxpayers. Why should our money go toward producing a product that is inferior in every way to one's that are produced by foreign owned automakers.

To suggest that this is in anyway related to unfair trade is utterly absurd. The US automakers have had at least 30 years to become competetive and they have failed to do so. I say good bye and good riddance.

Stephen in Toronto
said

To solve the problem after GM reopens is to fire the union and the complaining workers. I work for a non-unionized company and I get the same perks as a union company.

Bill
said

Let's clarify something:
the auto sector is only ONE industry. It is NOT the be-all, end-all for the economy. Loss of the big three won't devestate North America as they are certainly NOT the only game in town-even in auto production. If Toyota can open a $1.1 BILLION$$$$ plant in Oshawa while the big 3 are rattling their tin cups, then exactly where is the problem? ... not in government or the market, it's their own problem.

sink or swim, leave taxpayers money out of it.

Lance
said

It is insane to bail out these big companies with our tax dollars. No one would bail us out. The unions and the poor business plan are the cause of the problems of these companies, not us, and we sure should not have to pay for it.

Joel in Kamloops
said

I'd help the automakers out. With huge strings attached - including making sure the money stays in country, and full accountability from all parties involved. That includes the union. The CAW shouldn't pull what the UAW did and refuse wage cuts. The reality is that all parties have to compromise.

I also think that if Ford, GM and Chrylser get money, Honda and Toyota should get some if they want it. They should use it for R&D as their bottom lines seem to be better.

If this doesn't work, then the government keeps the facilities and sells them off or retrofits them for something else. It would be nice to get a Hyundai factory in Canada. They make popular cars that are quality products. I love my Hyundai.

sdgreen, North Saanich BC
said

Time for UAW/CAW to realize that they are part of the solution and they need to reduce expectations substantially.

Either adapt or start looking for a new job!

It is likely that all NA auto manufacturers will close ALL Canadian plants and retreat to US base plants.

Unions live in a dream world
said

No normal, tax-paying, rule-abiding Canadian has any sympathy for the CAW or any other militant union. You brought his on yourselves, but you'll never see that, because your DNA is full of a sense of complete entitlement. No one else has guaranteed wage increases every year, and gold plated benefits for producing a product no one wants. I wouldn't EVER buy a North American car ever again. Quality is crap, reliability is crap and the depreciation enormous. How can that artificial situation be sustained? It can't, and it won't. Go get an education and live in the real world like the rest of us.

john from the West
said

Now that the U.S. won't bail out the big 3 does Iggy,Jacky & jerk still believe that we should plunge headlong into throwing our tax dollars to the big 3. Maybe our Politicians need to take a little cut in pay to. If they had of went ahead with the coalition our tax dollars would now b South of the border never to be seen again

Adapt or Fade Away
said

Did anyone else find this hillarious?

"Buckley called on Stephen Harper and the Tories to give a strong signal to North American automakers that they understand just how serious the crisis in the auto sector is."

Wow, that's hillarious. I have a better idea. How about Buckley call his union cronies and let them know how serious this is by saying something like, "hey guys, maybe we need to take a major pay cut, like NOW, because the Big Three can't afford to give us close to 100k a year to put a panel on a door."

Until the CAW starts telling their employees then need to get paid the same amount as Honda and Toyota workers, they get zero sympathy from me.

If the CAW doesn't adapt to reality fast, it may find itself vanishing as quickly at GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Better to have their members getting paid mediocre salaries (like the rest of us) than NO SALARIES.

Chris from Kingston
said

Maybe the union employees will decide that it's better to cut their massive wages and benefits so they at least have jobs. You don't need 50 bucks an hour to be an assembly line worker.

Tim from Calgary
said

Once the CAW and UAW acknowledge that they will have to make some concessions, then I will listen. Otherwise...

Brian in Edmonton
said

The union has to wake up.
They have to implement immediate significant wage reductions.
Either work for a little less or lose your job....this shouldn't be a tough choice.
The union has to realize its hard to draw up public support for their members when they have all better off than most other Canadians who are working for a lot less money.
They always had their hand out to 'take' when there were big profits being made but won't 'give' now that times are hard.....go figure.
Unions had their place years ago, but enough is enough.

Brian in Edmonton
said

helen in toronto
said

Let's all relax and take a deep breathe! This is a glabal crises! Welcome to the CLUB!

Worrying won't solve the problem. Pointing fingers at each other won't help either.

It's a long, big problem that had been build up for years and years.

The bad things is between two Union - Detriot and Souther Ontario - are having a different disagreement on wages cut or decrease benefit. This is a big issue that requires both side to sit down and work it out!

As for your C.E.O. we all agree he has to be replaced!

But the good thing is - Bush and Obama are still on your side - especially Bush - he doesn't care - not his money - he will be out of his job in less than 30 days! He wants to sign ANYTHING AND BE A HERO!

We are sure it will work out SOMETHING, SOMEHOW!

Just sit back and enjoy the holiday and take a whole month off on January.

We are ALL WAITING FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA - our hero to come and rescure all of us!

Merry Christmas - please stay home and enjoy spending the extra time with your family!PUT AWAY YOUR DEBT AND CREDIT CARD AND DON'T HELP OUT WALMART OR FUTURE SHOP! DON'T BE STUPID!

W.Brown
said

Why should I have to take a wage cut?GM employs me to help build their product, not make the business decisions,those people are the ones that should take the pay cuts.Every person who blames union members for the state of the auto industry is just ignorant of the facts.If you had my job would you take a pay cut for decisions you have no control over?

Andrew
said

Consumers are tapped out, tax payers are tapped out. If we are to borrow future tax dollars then we need to spend it on community infrastructures, roads, green energy, electric utilities, oil and gas infrastructure,schools and eductation, things that will be of a benefit for the future generations. not bailing out an auto industry that needs to restructure, it will restructure and jobs will be lost with or with out borrowed tax money.

King of Kensington
said

Why are autoworker jobs sacred? I've been downsized 3 times sinces I finished university in '90--no one gave a damn about me or my colleagues. Heck, I'm facing the same thing again. Also, when you're overpaid and building crap, why should we rescue you? You'll be in the same predicament a year from now.

Lee in Calgary
said

That stats are pretty clear, last year 2007, GM and Toyota sold almost the exact same number of vehicles yet GM is almost bankrupt while Toyota just opened a new plant in Ontario creating 1200 jobs.

I can't speak with knowledge about the fully loaded rates in Canada but the US numbers are clear and devestating. The fully loaded labour cost per hour for GM was roughly $72 USD while Toyota's number was roughly $42 USD.

I'm no Bill Gates but it's pretty clear that in this case the product isn't the issue, if your labour cost is $30 USD per hour higher per employee you're not going to be able to compete period. I'm sure smarter people will talk about other industry issues such as government tax breaks, dealership issues and such but until the so called big 3 can get their labour costs closer to those of Honda and Toyota we are throwing good money after bad.

Last night the Senate republicans demanded that the UAW agree to wage and benefit cuts as a condition of receiving taxpayers money as well as putting restriction on the companies. The union rejected any cuts out of hand and the bill was promptly defeated.

Two weeks ago I watched as a CAW rep during a TV interview did the same thing, rejecting any efforts to renegotate labour costs as a condition of receiving taxpayer funds.

Is this the Edmonton meatpackers deal all over again whereby the union refused to negotiate and lost all their jobs as the plant was moved to Brandon MB.

This take it or leave it approach by the unions must be rejected if taxpayer funds are involved. If we are to support an industry it must be a viable industry otherwise our dollars are better spent in other areas.

Herb
said

Regardless, we will see thousands upon thousands of people without a job. The ineptitude of the Harper gov't means that these people will not have the assistance they will require.

You can make pissy, self-satisfied statements all you want, but this will cascade and devastate the entire country.

allan moss
said

the 30.00 dollar an hour auto workers are complainig, they might lose there jobs, I find it hard to feel sorry for them, they refuse to give in to wage decreases, to try and help the situation, oh well those of us making 10.00 an hour really feel for you NOT!!!

Mark
said

Good,

No tax $$$$ bailouts until all of these greedy unions and wayyyyy overpaid union members accept substantial pay-cuts/benefit restructuring to share the pain. If they refuse then no more jobs.

Robert, rural Ontario
said

All partners in the automotive industry must streamline and make concessions before gov't give a get of debt free card. It is amazing the 3 american car makers saw a world moving toward greener and for some reason continued to make bigger and bigger cars.

Joseph from Ottawa
said

People... start tightening your belts NOW!!! we are heading towards an unprecedented DEPRESSION. Yes, not a recession, but a full blown depression. I know that the bad times will not last forever, but emerging from this economic collapse will not be easy nor will it be fast.
Uncontrolled capitalism has failed, and to fix it politicians have been shifting towards a socialist-semi-communist system. How in the world do you fix a failing systems with a socialist-communist system that failed as well????

Blue-neck Albertan
said

So, are all the Auto Workers Union leaders going without pay for those 6 weeks to support their "Brothers and Sisters"? Doubt it.
After being a die-hard GM fan for over 20 years, I became tired of paying for crappy product, and switched to Toyota products in 1992 and have never looked back.
These guys remind me of the poor millionaire NHL hockey players that held the country hostage for a year when they went on strike.
Let me summarize this up in 3 words: Boo friggen hoo...

Scott Beckingsale
said

please! this has nothing to do with "unfair" trading or import rules. the "not-so-big 3" are in trouble because no one is buyer there crappy products. what ever the reason for the buyers to switching to the imports - no one NOW is interested in what they make. unions dont want to help, why should the taxpayers!! Besides - if you skewint, Buckley looks just like Hargrove. remember that GM was formed for 17 failed auto companies, 8 that had gone bankrupt. history repeats its self and without our taxpayers dollars saving the greedy....

KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

It is mind boggling that the head of the auto workers union in Canada could be surprised by the lack of enthusiastic support of a BIG 3 rescue plan. What planet are these folks on? Why do they seem to expect this. That's the question I would like to have answered� How did they get this sense of self-importance and entitlement� Hell, they work in plants and build mediocre cars to supply an over-supplied market.. They aren't making medical isotopes.

Scott in Victoria
said

Its ironic I think - would any of take a wage cut? Didn't think so. Oh yeah, by the way Alberta Jim - your government has gone to Ottawa asking for a drop in federal taxes and royalties in order to make the tar sands more viable since the price of oil has dropped. I wonder, will you whine or take it like a good Albertan and accept a wage cut when oil companies threaten to pull out?

Jey from Mississauga
said

Sorry people. You do not understand how the system works. If both US and Canadian government do not bail out the big 3, we are going to lose the income tax. The money you are giving is not free money; remember the 1980's Chrysler bail out. So understand and put your self centered jealousy aside and even save your job in future. It's also coming on your way.

Jason
said

Hey....what that?...another union that wouldnt budge on wage concessions and are now out of work...Gee if i had to bend a little to keep a job i might consider it...Too bad the republican senators have this great ideal of compromise...

Ed . Dunchurch
said

GM know that bailout or no bailout thay simply cannot continue to build cars that won't sell. It has nothing to do with quality or gas consumption. The automotive dealers (all of them) across North America have more than 3 months inventory in their lots. They simply don't need any more. The automakers have even more vehicles in their lots which they cannot move.
It is not just the Big 3, Honda and Toyota are cutting back on production as their sales last month were down 30+%. It would be absolute folly to continue building more vehicles.
Tough as it is we had better get used to this for a while.

Patrick
said

The US deal failed thanks to the UAW not being willing to take a $3 or $4 per hour cut in pay - ARE THEY INSANE????????? If I had the choice of keeping my job and taking a small cut in pay, I'D TAKE IT. Especially if I was making the kind of money they do.

Why is that unions think that the big 3 owe them the sun, moon, & stars? Get a grip on reality you greedy morons.

Wallygator
said

Oh please Mr Buckley...enough already. Not only 2 weeks ago, the CAW was insisting that they would not take any concessions to help with a recovery. Now I hear that they are willing to be "part of the solution". Vague statement in my opinion. I think we all know what the CAW means by that statement.

Kevin in Oshawa
said

I really wish you whiners using the "imports taking over the market" excuse. WAKE UP PEOPLE, many of the fuel efficient models GM, Chrysler and Ford offered are adaptations from JAPANESE vehicles. Example: Pontiac Vibe = Toyota Matrix. Many of you "domestic brand loyalists" seem to conveniently forget that many of these "import" branded companies have factories right here in Ontario and Canada as well as the United States. Honda and Toyota both have assembly plants and engine plants as well as other factories all across North America employing NORTH AMERICANS. Therefore, these jobs and investments HELP your so-called domestic economy. Time to wake up and smell the roses for you people who seem to conveniently forget these facts.

Not to worry
said

Harper says the canadian economy is in good shape, his plans are green! Horses, wagons, skateboards, bikes, roller blades. The real important thing is to spend 2.4 million times 7 years for 18 of his friends. Him & his friends are much more important than anything for our economy. Oh & plugging in christmas lights. these are the real important things!
Merry Christmas canada!!!

Terry out West
said

Yes Brittany GM does have a lot of vehicles and some are good vehicles but do they need 39 different lines of vehicles and some of those, like trucks have 6 sublevels. Look at Honda for instance, they have 15 lines including Acura. Does General Motors need to make a Chevvy truck and a GMC truck that are identical other than badging. These are only some of the changes that General Motors need to make at the Corporate level before I'll agree to give them "MY", let me say that again, "MY" money either by direct purchase of one of their vehicles or my tax dollars.

Nancy
said

Where is Buzz Hargrove now???? Nice timing on retirement!

By the way 14 billion dollars will do nothing, GM's debt alone is 65 billion in the US. Do not give these unions our money. If they hadn't been holding these companies hostage for so many years, perhaps bankruptcy wouldn't be inevitable.

BONNIE
said

If the union's won't make any concession's than they don't get any taxper's help. They either want their jobs or not. Let them go under they can get retrained to do something else.

Ari
said

Mr. Union,
Start from yourself first before you ask the government to bail you out with the hard earned Canadian taxpayer's money. Show that you are ready, willing and have a plan to make sacrifices in your salaries and benefits, show that the company has a plan to restructure everything and make it profitable, and then you are in line to be assessed if you deserve such help or not.
Why should Canadians and for that matter the Americans pay for your extremely high salaries and benefits? Why isn't Toyota, Honda and Mazda seeking any help?
Aswer these questions first, look in the mirror to find the anwer and than perheps if you satisfy the taxpayers that indeed you have learned from your mistakes you will get the help.
Sorry, Mr. Union but that's the reality of real world and not that of the iceland you are isolated in.

Jammers5
said

There is not much sense of Canada doing anything for the Automakers until the U.S. delivers on a package. Without the U.S. involved our money would just be thrown away - they could not survive on what Canada could contribute.
Having said thay what are other automakers doing - we haven't heard anything about Toyota, Honda, Hyundai etc - are they in trouble too?

GK in NB
said

In 2005 I bought a new Ford product. What a lemon. When i tried to communicate with Ford I got zero response and even less from the dealer. I have vowed to never enter a Ford showroom ever again. In 2007 I went back to the Japanese maker and have beem 100% satisfied asusual.

DWR
said

Why should the taxpayers keep companies going that can not be managed properly in the first place. If you can not survive under your own steam shut down.
You want to make the companies to do better financially? Why not start at the top get rid of the private jets, Chauffer Driven Limo, hot and cold running personal assistance and the obscenely high wages, for both management and the workers etc etc...
Then try really hard to make a quality vehicle that is good on gas and is affordable to the average person out there. Then perhaps you would not be in this bad position now.
Just think about it.

JP in Ontario
said

Folks, these companies as their individual wholes, are to blame here. In another article on this site, a UoT analyst has stated that Chapter 11, Bankruptcy protection is the most likely solution for this problem with these companies. They are in need of deep and hard restructuring. Management needs to be completely replaced, and reduced. Why do they need salaries in the millions of dollars? Once this top level reorganization has been completed with the Big 3, they will need to review the budgets, reduce unnecessary spending, sell off divisions, brands, property etc. With all of this complete, if what is left is still a viable company, then they should approach the line workers, examine salaries and benefits, and work with the respective unions to bring these in line with values that will keep the company afloat, keep jobs, and at least have workers who are informed as to the reason why their union may have been asked to make concessions. None of this is currently in place however, or progressing. GM closing Oshawa operations for 6 weeks will put those staff affected in a difficult position, but likely still wont resolve the problems. These companies burn through billions of dollars in a fiscal quarter. The bailouts requested, and denied, would never have been enough to keep them solvent for more than 2 months, let alone a whole quarter. I feel for my neighbours at GM, and for their sake, I hope the company can be reshaped ok.

gord
said

The unions played a huge part in the failure of these companies its them that should be bailing out the big three. Without huge wage consessions there is no way I want even one penny of my tax dollars go to these companies. At an average of over 72.00 an hour those employees are way way overpaid. The best thing we could do is let them go under then they could restructure without unions and become sustainable companies. Any money we put in now is just a bandaid and will only serve to delay the certain collapse of this industry.

Sharon
said

I live in the Durham Region so I well understand the consequences to the local economy if GM closes. However the reality is that it could happen, I do agree with the other comments that the company needs to restructure and make cuts. Welcome to my reality world, my husband has been without work for a year, we have lost nearly half our retirement in the crisis of the stock market. Have we had to make changes, you bet, will we survive, hopefully. This is today's reality!!

Amy in Winnipeg
said

They Executive & The Unions won't take a wage cut? Well how about no wage at all? How is that better? the unions and the executive both need to realise THEY are the ones bancrupting this comapny. If they are so greedy, let them fail.

Lucy AB
said

I think we need to let them crash and burn. That's the only way they will learn their lesson, wake up and make some major modifications to the auto industry. This will be beneficial to a larger group of people besides that fat cats sitting on top.

Tammy
said

And what sort of wage cut do you propose? Just a question... is it going to save the economy when the CAW workers loose their houses and their cars??? How is the autoindustry going to be saved by making it so their own employees can not afford to buy what they build... Making it so thousands of people can not afford cars is not going to save the autoindusttry!!!! Is that going to save the world if we all take jobs that pay less then $20 an hour... what kind of crisis will we have then when EVERY CAW member can not afford their houses anymore and their mortgages go into forclosure... we do not have a financial crisis now like they do in the states but take away a living wage from people that contribute to the economy and to charities and to communitees and see what state we are in then...

All these fat cat business men that call themselves specialists are bringing in 6 figure incomes and they have the nerve to say that the CAW makes too much money!!!!! How dare they! They can make as much as they want but a lowly factory worker is not important enough to make a living wage and support his or her family... to live in a house that they bought working on the line...

You peoples sense of justice and fairness sickens me... You would rather see everyone brought down then to fight to lift everyone up...

WE NEED GOOD PAYING JOBS TO MAKE OUR ECONOMY WORK!!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT!!!!!

Todd in ON
said

It is not the responsibility of tax dollars to support the manufacturing sector.

The blame for this is squarely on the shoulders of GM and the union.

Bill
said

Message to the Car Companies:

You created this situation by not paying attention to market trends and the overall economy.

If you can't compete why should we bail you out? Darwinism in action - survival of the fitest.

Larry Wallace
said

The CAW has taken an unreasonable approach to not offering to take any wage or benefit cuts, but lets not forget the suits in the Corporate office who for years have taken large salaries and huge bonus. Now is the time for them to take huge wage cuts and forego their extravagant bonuses until their respective companies are once again making a real profit and returning dividends to the investors!!

If the government does bail them out, one of the conditions is the entire Board of Directors should be replaced along with the CEO's and CFO's of these companies with out benefit of ANY severance package, as this should be put back into the company to pay off creditors. This is what happens to the workers wages and serverance when a company goes bankrupt!

Larry Kitchener

Jackie Barrett
said

The best option for General Motors is to file for bankruptcy so they can nullify all union contracts, start from scratch, build cars with high fuel economy to stay competitive with Honda, Toyota, or Nissan, and pay compensation and benefits comparable to Japanese Auto Makers.

Food for though, I learned that an average employee at at GM, Chrysler, or Ford plant costs at least $72 an hour in benefits and wages. Its no wonder why American big three automakers are in bad shape.

In the end, if GM does file for bankruptcy protection or bankruptcy, the first steps include renewing contracts and pay wages comparable to Japanese big three, build vehicles with high fuel economy to rival the Toyota Prius, and keep benefits to a minimum. Simple as that.

John From Ottawa
said

Giving the big 3 bailout money is ridicules. I'd refuse to give 1 penny of my tax money to them. I hope Harper doesn't give them anything.

Lindsay
said

Here we go.....hang on...this is only the beginning.
Thanks everyone who bought imports re: price, mileage, etc. etc.
What were you thinking???
Now your neighbours, family members, etc. are out of work and maybe you are next.

Matt
said

It's unfortunate that jobs are affected, but in terms of the "Big [insert comment about dinosaurs'] Three" cars, Good riddance to bad rubbish!

chris
said

Why don't our politicians and media focus on the real reason for the decline of manufacturing in north america? UNFAIR TRADE. How can anybody with our standard of living compete with third world labor. Bye bye middle class.

Ki-Some Victoria BC
said

As a union member, in British Columbia, I can say that the CAW has just gotten way out of hand. What they make in wages is just an outrage.

Mad Mary
said

In this economy, there are alot of people out of work that would be prepared to take a wage cut as opposed to no job at all. It is time for the NA car industry to take some lessons from the others. They operate good businesses and are not asking the governmnet for money.

Darlene in Halifax
said

What exactly do they think it will accomplish if the Cdn govt throws money at the Ontario plants? If the US head offices go under, they will just take our tax dollars with them. There is no point in bailing out a branch if the US govt isn't going to bail out the head offices. Waiting to see if the US helps or not is the sensible thing to do.

Steve Searle Bowmanville Ont
said

We need fair trade not fee trade, Korea, Japan,will not let us sell cars in there countries, i understand that there is a huge market for our large SUV's they just keep dumping there products here. Our products are as good or better in some cases than there,s. Lets get with it Ottawa and Washington.

Gary Findlay
said

What strong signal do they want sent? The federal and provincial governments have been working closely together to try and address the auto situation. Last nights action in the U.S. cleary shows how ridiculous it would be for Canad to move too quickly before they know what the U.s. is going to do. Don't the people involved understand that the final decisions are made in the U.S.; not by Canadian management whether we like it or not. The U.S. management can decide to halt production in a Canadian plant even if we rush in and give them money. We must have written guarantees (U.S. guarantees).

J.C.
said

Naturally the Cons are sitting back to see what the US is doing. What good would it do to pour money into the car companies in Canada if the US isn't?? They are connected after all. Mr. Buckley should take notice that the US deal was rejected mostly because the UAW would not make concessions. Maybe the CAW should use a little more wisdom?
If the CDN government puts money into the auto sector whose to say they won't use it for the US and therefore would not do anything for Canada.
The two unions need to get together and offer concessions if they want to keep their jobs.
I do hope the government uses its head in this matter and does not just throw money to the Big 3. I hope the "coalition" took strong note of the US rejection since they just wanted to throw out the money!!!!

Dave T
said

I'm sick of hearing the car-makers whine. Compete or die. If they can't hold their own, they deserve bankruptcy. Every business out there knows their fate if they can't make a profit. No reason to dump perfectly good taxpayer money into a bad company. I certainly know that if I was ever going bankrupt that the govt wouldnt be bailing me out. So why should they be able to use my tax dollars to bail out some other guy.

Quit wasting my money. If there really is that much kicking around Ottawa then lower our taxes more and leave my money in my pocket so I can save my own finances rather that worrying about some Multi-billion dollar company. They made their beds. Let them sleep in them.

CJ in Edmonton
said

The union should be taking a pay cut! That sort of thing happens all of the time, but the auto industry is so flipping greedy it is beyond me!!!

The auto industry should not be bailed out. They said it themselves...they built lacklustre cars, overly priced, and they are being trumped by the foreign markets.

Rob, Kitchener
said

Bailing out the big3 when their business models are tanking would be like pissing money down a rat-hole. That same money would better be spent on public works and infrastructural projects to employ those who lose their auto industry jobs. At least then, the country could benefit from the investment. When they emerge from bankruptcy, there will still be jobs, just fewer of them.

Mark
said

Until the unions make major wage concessions, bankruptcy may be the only option to save the industry.

JohnBoy
said

Maybe its time for the CAW workers to take the lead with a wage cut and maybe public support and financial aid will happen. Unfortunately this has to happen and better than sooner than never and still be working next year.

Brittany
said

It's awful that something created here in North America can be taken over my imports..its completely unfair trade. We cannot sell some of our products in other places which is allowing imports to dominate more than one market. Its dissapointing also when people don't take the time to look at facts and recognize GM makes good cars and that they do have hybrids it's just not as known. I encourage those who think they KNOW to take a look at the GM website..see all the hybrid cars trucks and suvs and also take time to think about how not helping GM will just make the economy even worse!

Sheila
said

Until the big 3 start to agree to some major wage cuts, benefit cuts and upper management cuts, and start to build cars that people actually want to buy, there should be no bailout. If they bail out the auto industry there will be countless other businesses knocking at the door for government handouts and the taxpayers just can't afford that.

Alberta Jim
said

And what do you want Canadian TAXPAYERS to do. Give you all our hard earned tax dollars so the companies can continue on as they have been doing. I don't think so. Demonstrate that management and the unions actually have a plan and are willing to give up a little and maybe.

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