Tory backtracks on vote for religious school funds

Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory will, if elected premier, allow a free vote in the Legislature on his controversial plan of funding for religious schools.

Tory, whose election campaign has been hindered by the proposal, made the announcement during a speech at the Economic Club of Toronto on Monday afternoon.

Tory said his plan to spend $400 million to bring private religious schools under the public umbrella will only proceed after "extensive public consultation and support from Ontarians through their elected representatives."

"MPPs will be allowed a free vote so that they are at liberty to vote with their conscience and represent the wishes of constituents," he said.

While Tory still strongly supports his idea because "it is a matter of fairness to all voters," he said the issue has become too divisive, and he had to address the public's concerns.

His proposal has been widely unpopular among voters and even created divisions within his own party ahead of the Oct. 10 election.

Earlier Monday, Tory held a conference call with all of the party's candidates, many of whom have complained about how much voters dislike the idea.

Meanwhile, another Progressive Conservative candidate has broken ranks with the party on the issue.

Hamilton East-Stoney Creek candidate Tara Crugnale told the Hamilton Spectator that she "can't defend the policy as it stands now."

Crugnale said she supports the idea but said she wouldn't vote for the plan because it's not understood or supported by the electorate.

Last week, Conservative MPP Bill Murdoch said he would not support the policy.

Tory flip-flopping: rivals

Tory's main rivals, meanwhile, accused the Conservative leader of flip-flopping.

"I'll let Ontarians draw their own conclusions about Mr. Tory and his judgment," Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty said.

"What I will do is continue to support our publicly funded schools in an absolute and unequivocal way."

NDP Leader Howard Hampton said Tory created a problem for himself with his religious schools plan.

"But I'll tell you, Mr. McGuinty likes this issue because Mr. McGuinty then doesn't have to address the issue of the fact that he hasn't fixed the school funding formula, and parents are being forced to raise over half a billion dollars a year through fundraising," Hampton said.

Toronto PC candidate Peter Shurman, however, said Tory's announcement will have "a very positive effect."

"He has demonstrated his willingness to listen," he told CTV's Mike Duffy Live.

Shurman said some Liberal members, including McGuinty and Education Minister Kathleen Wynne, have supported the concept "to a greater or lesser extent."

Wynne shot back, saying she has never supported the proposal. She said Tory knew before the election began this was going to be a controversial issue.

"Today's announcement, all it means, is it will be drawn out over the next two or three years if he were to implement it," she told CTV's Mike Duffy Live.

Wynne said Tory's about-face demonstrates "bad judgment."

Wynne and Tory finally faced off on the fate of the public education system at an all-candidates meeting in Leaside on Sunday, where Wynne argued it would "attack the social cohesion of this province."

With a report from CTV's Paul Bliss

Comments are now closed for this story

Jim
said

I do agree with Mr Tory in regard to faith based funding. In the televised debate, he said it should be all or nothing. Catholic schools should not be funded if other faiths are not. He is 100% correct on this issue and it is a shame that the people of Ontario cannot understand the issue at hand. Is it better to have a hand in what is being taught to these 53,000 kids or to be ignorant of what is being taught in say a private Islamic school?

Emily
said

No one is standing in front of public schools blocking the entry of children from religious backgrounds. In fact, many children from environments of deep faith attend public schools.
The real issue is that the parents of some faith environments choose not to sent their children to the public system. It is a choice they have made. Should I be expected to fund all of their choices? I certainly hope not.

Jonny
said

Not allowing politicians to change their minds based on public outcry is the reason why there are so many pigheaded politicians who stay on course even while nearing the rocks. Both the media and idiot "flip-flopper" commenters need to use their thinkin' skills.

Scott
said

What I cannot figure out, is why someone would crucify a guy who stood for something he believed in, and instead suggest we reelect a guy who broke more than 50 promises in the past four years. Has Ontario's education system gotten so bad that its people have all become completely naive!?

Al
said

The difference between McGuinty and Tory is trust and integrity. You can trust Dalton to tell you one thing and do the opposite after the fact. John at least has the integrity to listen and change strategy up-front based on feedback. The choice is clear.

Bemused PC
said

@Amanda, who wrote: "Mr. Tory did not flip flop, back-peddle..."

...in fact, he did just that. One week ago, when Bill Murdoch said he'd vote against the bill, Tory mocked Murdoch and made it clear that it would not be a free vote because the issue of fairness made this issue "too important" for the Party not to toe the line.

"...how horrible it would be for Ontario to have a premier who attempts to find a compromise when the people he wants to represent disagree..."

Sure. But maybe the three years he'd spent as leader BEFORE the election might have been a better time for him to have figured out how the public felt? If this is, as the PC campaign insists, a campaign about leadership, this announcement is enough to make one wonder about that very quality...

Alan
said

Ahhh. John Tory. A man who stands behind his convictions and beliefs and won't back down in the face of adversity.... unless of course the polls are showing that the Conservatives are about to lose again. Then, conviction flies out the window. Just what Ontario needs in a leader. A person who folds when the going gets rough. Right.

mike
said

Blake, Why do my taxes have to go towards your kids education in public school. If I choose to send my kids to a private school I'm more than happy to foot the bill but I'd like a rebate on the tax I'm forced to pay into the public system.

Nick
said

What a horrible case of campaign management. His valid point on principle should have been put forward as a promise to seek a public review once (now a big"if") elected.

Moses
said

Tory has won my vote back.

Wanda
said

To A.Bica,Mohamed H., and all those who are up in arms about funding religious schools and segregation using religion. A. Bica wrote "If parents don't want their children to go to the "public" school system but instead want them attending a "private" school where they can get their religious education, let 'em pay for it . . . extra!" Ummmm no, the public system ALREADY includes funding the Catholic religion as part of their curriculum. And to Mohamed H. who wrote " State and Religion have long been separated; there is no place for religion in our public school system. Ontarians should tell Tory: you want to teach religion, go and pay for it yourself, don�t ask us to pay for it. Period." We already pay for the Catholic religion's funding of schools with our tax dollars so that definitely isn't keeping church and state seperate at all. It's either got to be all religions included and funded or do away with the Seperate School Board and have ONLY a public board with no religion involved. I am tired of the bias if you're not Catholic.

Mau
said

Please people. If you are going to comment about Ontario's political parties and education system , at least know what you are talking about. Ontario also divides its schools along English/French. We have English Public, French Public, English Catholic and French Catholic. Its not only Quebec. And secondly the Green party has proposed to abolish the catholic system. Just so you all know what you are talking about

Robert
said

Undermining the longterm social cohesion of the most ethnically diverse province in Canada was never going to fly.

The entire venture has been an unmitigated disaster.

Willingly reaching out to grasp the third rail of Ontario politics could never have had a different result. This entire idea was not simply poor judgment - it was political incompetence.

John Tory is as adept at running his own election campaign as he was at running Kim Campbell's.

Lisa from Thunder Bay
said

If Mr. John Tory is listening to voters and polls and his candidates and can meet in the middle as he has today then he just earned my vote. It's gone to the liberals in the past but I prefer to know now what I am getting rather than find out later that I have to pay later, such as delisted health care.
OUR NEEDS ARE SIMPLE IN ONTARIO, KEEP IT SIMPLE

Peter
said

Finally - way to go John, you've won back my vote

Tim
said

I strongly agree with Amanda.
I truly do not understand the voters in this province. It is amazing to think that Dalton could actually get back into power after breaking so many promises, especially the biggest one of not to raise taxes. Remember folks he put this in writing. Someone else on here said all politicians are liars. Well, they are liars because the electorate never hold them accountable when the lie and break promises. Politicians are like kids, they need to learn that when they lie and cheat they will be disciplined and punished. If Dalton is voted back in, then every politician in this country will know that they can say and do whatever they want and still get elected. Nice message to teach our children.

M. Cameron
said

Ontario needs to get right out of funding all separate schools. This is key to avoid conflict of separation between church and state.

Dale
said

It is hilarious to read these posts supporting the publically funded secular schools. Have you people been on vacation in some other part of the solar system? The public schools are broke! Or worse. Hey, if you want to aborgate your responsibility to the government to ensure your child received an education, regardless of the ever declining state of affairs, that is your choice. However, to compel me to financially support such a system contravenes equality of rights related to religion and language. It is most peculiar to see so called liberal politicans dancing to the tune of intolerance towards people of faith. P.E.T. must be spinning in his grave

glen
said

Very couragous proprosal and support for a fairer system by a decent, honest business man! Liberals thought similarly in early 90s. To explain more now,though late,that it would only come about after future committee fine tuning AND A FREE VOTE MAKES GOOD SENSE. It's got my support

Mark Witzel
said

Let's be clear, public funding for faith-based school systems is a human rights violation.

Canada ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights on May 19th, 1976, with the consent of all provinces, including Ontario.

In November 1999, the United Nations Human Rights Committee found Canada in violation of the equality provisions of that Covenant by virtue of Ontario's discriminatory school system (see Waldman v. Canada).

That discrimination remains without remedy to this day, a situation that in November 2005 led the same Committee to censure Canada again for failing to "adopt steps in order to eliminate discrimination on the basis of religion in the funding of schools in Ontario." (see Concluding observations of the Human Rights Committee : Canada. 02/11/2005).

The same day, an Iranian human rights envoy brushed off a Canadian sponsored UN resolution concerning human rights violations in Iran by wondering: "Being charged itself with human rights violations, is Ottawa competent enough to initiate a human rights resolution in the UN against another country?"

The incident poignantly underscored the importance of living up to our human rights obligations.

Please take some time to visit the website www.oneschoolsystem.org and get more facts.

Phizz
said

Mr Tory should check his facts...In Quebec the school boards are divided based on language and not religion. Last year Mr. Charest tried to introduce funding to religious private schools and created an uproar from the public. No need to tell you that the idea was quickly scrapped..

Dave
said

Mr. Tory built his entire campaign on the theme of broken promises. On his Web site, at leadershipmatters.ca, he proclaims that "it's time to put an end to broken promises, weak leadership, and poor results."

I knew that, if successful, this strategy would come back to bite him. Everyone knows that politicians, especially non-incumbent politicians, make promises they can't keep. And those politicians, like Mr. Tory, who promise deep tax cuts and many costly new spending initiatives simultaneously, are especially suspect.

But who ever would have guessed that Mr. Tory would break his first promise before the campaign even ended?

The next time he earnestly declares that "leadership matters," the entire province will be laughing at him. Will he even be able to keep a straight face anymore?

Good on Tory
said

I disagree with all you guys that say John Tory is a flip-flopper and unprincipled.

Look, this is how democracy is suppose to work! Some guy has an idea that sucks and basically it gets voted down.

I say congratulations to John Tory for changing his stance on this issue. Sounds to me like he is a guy who will actually listen to public opinion rather than McGinty who ignores public opinion, misleads us and then raises our taxes. raised our taxes. Who would you rather have as the Premier?

Robert
said

Funding should not be allowed for any religious schooling period!!!!. We have one of the best public school systems in the world and if any religion does not like it then they must fund it themselves.

Michael
said

I'm glad John Tory has decided to study the issue in depth, it needs more study for such an important issue. However, more important is that Ontarians have a legitimate place to park their vote beside that promise breaker Dalton McGuinty. To think of a majority Liberal govt for Ontario is just insane to even contemplate. If the voters of this province elect a McGuinty government they deserve what they voted for... MORE BROKEN PROMISES... MORE POLITICAL RHETORIC.

James
said

Wow John Tory, you sure do know how to take the focus away from the real election issues.

What should happen is that the Catholic schools should stop receiving public funds, period. We do not need hundreds of people lining up for funding to start their own schools. As long as the religious world is exclusionary and the secular world inclusionary I will support public schools. My education was at public schools and I went on to a Public University (Queen's) and have prospered. The only thing a religous school teaches is that there are divisions in our society based on religious grounds. Keep religious education out of our schools. That is to say schools should teach about religion, all religions but should not be based on one.

Archie
said

Well said Amanda, John Tory has not lied or even changed his mind! he has simply "listened" to his party members & the people of Ontario & did the only reasonable thing under the circumstaces.

I will now re-consider not voting in this election as I am against ALL faith funding. Mark up one persons vote for the Conseratives.

rob
said

Flippety, floppety ain't trustworhty.

Keith H
said

The faith issue was never defined properly in the first place. This is a liberal idea to instate faith in different schools too so why not open up diversity? Once I understood Tory's proposal, I had no problem with it. At least you know where PCs are coming from whereas the Liberals will tell you one thing and do another. Perhaps libs will implement faith based but under another name and only then people will say its not such a bad idea.

Gary B
said

I must commend Tory for sticking to this unpopular position even though it may cost the election. In this age of extreme political views by some religions we, as a society don't need to set them up in a situation where they never need to scocialize with mainstream Canadians. Tory is right, this issue must be delt with rather than swept under the carpet. The free vote is the way to go.

Theo
said

First off I'm not religious and have no children. I pay for everyone else's children without complaint.

I keep reading "I don't want to pay for it" or "none of my money should be going toward this".

Since when do the parents of children in faith based schools not qualify as taxpayers?

They pay into the system just like anyone else and their children should benefit from education funding that they pay into. These arguments are a little silly, I don't really want to pay for road improvements in areas where I don't drive either.

Wayne
said

I think I'd rather vote for NONE OF THE ABOVE this time. Flip flopping goes all three ways and the Greens aren't popular enough.

Could we please start over with some more credible leaders and platforms?

Stephanie
said

Marcus - I think you are the one who doesn't understand the issue, as Tory is not proposing one school system for all, he is proposing funding separate school boards for different religions. What a waste of money to have so much spent on administration of separate systems.
Linda - you say what is the problem, the funding will follow the student, well the problem is that the more seperate school systems there are, the more money is wasted on administration, rather than education.

Why aren't any of the parties campaigning on a SINGLE public system (not the current public system, which includes the public catholic school board, which McGuinty is promoting) which does not give special rights to catholics? It's true that it's not fair that they get special status (and I am catholic myself - but I can admit it's unfair) but going to the extreme of extending funding to all religions would be very inefficient. No political party would ever campaign against the public catholic schools for fear of loosing the Catholic vote.

Tricia
said

I am sorry to read about John Tory's about face in the issue of funding for faith-based schools. It is unfortunate that there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding regarding this issue. It is an issue of unfairness and inequity in Ontario! 51% of our funded schools are Catholic. Why support one faith based school system and not the others? Only 7% of students attend faith-based schools at this time. What would the the public school system have to do if all of these children were to the public school system? We would expect the money, space, teachers and resources to educate them! Would that cost money? Yes. Would Ontario have a choice? No.
Parents of children in faith based schools pay twice- we pay our education tax dollars to support the Catholic /public school systems, then we pay more to provide education in lines with our values and beliefs. How can this be taking money away from the pulic school system? Dalton McGuinty has a lot of nerve taking such a hypocritical stand when he also graduated from a faith-based school!(catholic)

Darcy
said

No doubt this hasn't been sold in very well. The larger picture is...unless the polls shift, Ontario will say yes again to Dalton McGuinty knowing that he broke promise after promise after promise. That, to me, is a very sad comment about our electorate.

Ontario..wake up...smell the coffee....look at the whole package...not one issue. Remember the broken promises....remember how much more you're paying in terms of a phony health tax. Do you really want to reward him with another term? That is what you will be doing and that, to me, is a disgrace.

Amanda
said

Am I reading the same article as everyone else? Mr. Tory did not flip flop, back-peddle or lie as Mr. McGuinty has done in the past and continues to do now. Mr. Tory stands firmly behind this issue, even if the rest of his party does not. Offering a free vote is not the same as flip-flopping.
Wow, how horrible it would be for Ontario to have a premier who attempts to find a compromise when the people he wants to represent disagree with his position. I'm sure everyone would rather have a premier who lies to them, takes their money as a "health tax" and then blames it squarely on the "other guy".

Mohamed H.
said

There is nothing more to understand, there is no misinformation, the vote on this issue and John Tory�s political judgment is next week. Simply put: John Tory and his PC party wants to segregate Ontario along ethnic and religious lines, he wants to give away our tax dollars so that religious zealous promote their religious point of view. Ontario must vote on this issue on Oct 10, not a year from now, not by so called "elected MPPs, Ontario must cast their ballot on Oct 10 and reject Tory and his religious and radical ideas, they must do this now, that�s what this election is all about. Ontarians must send Tory and all his PC candidates a strong message: State and Religion have long been separated; there is no place for religion in our public school system. Ontarians should tell Tory: you want to teach religion, go and pay for it yourself, don�t ask us to pay for it. Period.

Ed
said

Bang on "feedom of speech" The department of social engineering, ie; the public school system and affiliated unions will do everything in their power to make sure you have neither freedom of speech or choice. Now get back to bowing to big brother comrade and don't forget to pay those taxes!

A. Bica
said

I think it's so neat how the Conservatives (i.e. religious right) try to bring their religion to the education system through the back door.

Why can't we just educate the children weekdays between 8 and 4 and then let the parents immerse the children in their choice of faith after hours and on weekends as they wish.

The public can pay for their education and the parents can pay for their religion.

If parents don't want their children to go to the "public" school system but instead want them attending a "private" school where they can get their religious education, let 'em pay for it . . . extra!

This is not hard!

Leasider
said

I see John Tory's idea of leadership is just like any other politician. He stands for an idea until it is unpopular then changes his mind. I will change my vote from Green to Liberal in an attempt to end Mr Tory's career in politics.

shamaro
said

I don't believe that John Torys' idea was properly explained to the voting public. All he was trying to do was to include private schools with the public circulum but allowing their faith based teaching remain in the schools. We are taught in our public system that the Theory of Evolution is Fact and Theory, however mention the name of "GOD" and how the world was created and everybody is up in arms. Give him a chance to explain it and if voted in, allow this to be debated and voted on in the provincial chambers like a proper democratically elected institution does. I'm tired of politicians being politicians, I think it's time we give someone like John Tory a chance and let's see what he can do. At least he can't do any worse then Mr. McGuinty.

Jerry Wald
said

John Tory has referred to PC MPP Bill Murdoch as a "jack-in-the-box" for opposing his leader's position on the funding of faith-based schools. A jack-in-the-box can be safely pushed back into the box, but when a "Pandora's Box" is opened, as Mr. Tory so foolishly did, it's hard to put the lid back on. Mr. Tory's 11th hour mea culpa on this issue is ludicrous and flies in the face of his major criticism of his main opponent, Premier McGuinty. This is leadership, Mr. Tory??

Pat
said

I have now confirmed my support of the PC party as this issue should now receive the public debate it deserves. I am in favour of one public system only. Religious education can be taught at home,or appropriate religous environment. My concern is also the equitable hiring of teaching staff who go to the same "teachers' college" for their training and ought to have equal access to job postings. Many would likely see religious affliation as a prerequisite for hiring (for example Catholics may get prefertial hiring for the Catholic system over let's say, Jewish or Protestant teachers, while in the public system the hiring is more fair and merit based).One system is a just system.

said

Cheers to John Tory for respecting free votes, a fundamental part of democracy that has long been ignored in the Canadian political scene.

Jay
said

Linda,
The reason people are extremely apprehensive about this is that religions are the deepest divide we have. No religion wants to fund any others schooling because its different beliefs and they are all about pushing their own beliefs. No secular person wants to fund any religious schools because they view it as misinforming children. This is also my stance. Obviously with so many religions, either one is right or none is right. How can their be a multitude of beliefs if this is one planet? Here is the problem. Until you people figure out what exactly you all believe in, my money is not going to something unproven and most likely false. If I believed the teletubbies were real and my saviour, are you going to give me a school to teach that?

Secualr Sam
said

Why should taxpayers pay for religious education of ANY kind? Religion does not belong in any publicly funded classroom anywhere in Canada.

In Ontario's case, remove existing funding so that all religious groups are treated equally.

As for Tory, he just proves the point that politicians will do anything to feed from the public trough instead of actually adding to the wealth of the nation.

Keith
said

Geoffrey nails the ideal solution when, in talking about Alberta, he says: "several school districts even have faith-based programs within the public system, and this has only strengthened the public system".

A more flexible public system which addresses faith needs is far preferable to one that sets up separate, parallel school systems. In Newfoundland, the denominational school system had to be replaced with a single public system when the splintering and segregating began to cost too much and the students started losing things like music, gym and libraries. The various denominations put their faith ahead of the needs of the students and the ability of the government to pay, and in the end the government was forced to act in the best interests of the students and communities as a whole and get the Constitution changed to create one system.

And this was between Christian denominations - ostensibly, all of the same basic faith.

The dangers and costs of separate schools and the potential for intolerance that they create are far too great; we should instead look to creating a public system that is more open to integrating faith teaching, tolerance and understanding.

Matt
said

If the liberals end up getting a majority the PC campaign will go down at one of the worst-run in history.

Seriously, Dalton is an unpopular, generally un-likeable leader, and Tory is fairly centrist conservative. This campaign should have been a breeze for him, yet his people completely screwed it up, all on this one issue.

It really boggles the mind that, in this day an age, with so many highly-paid consultants working on election campaigns, that one could be so mismanaged.

Egerton
said

Some commenters suggest that PARTIALLY funding the education of children who attend non-Roman Catholic, faith-based schools is subsidizing their parents. But these parents are paying school taxes. So, isn't it really the case that school-tax-paying parents who send their children to non-Roman Catholic, faith-based schools are subsidizing the public school system?

We used to have an official, established, state church. We disestablished it in Ontario in the 1850s when we got rid of the clergy reserves. Now, we have an official, established state (public) school system. Maybe it's time to disestablish the state school system.

I Require Freedom of Speech
said

Public schools are tools used by leftists to ram their extreme propaganda down the throats of unsuspecting children! Parents should not have to pay extra to help their children avoid that. If Canadian socialists were not so Hitler-like in their tyranny we would not be having this debate.

Jim
said

Personally, issues more important to me in this election are: Ontario's crumbling manufacturing sector; Ontario's crumbling hospitals (in spite of the massive Health "Levy"); and a complete lack of ethical leadership from the Premier. Tory fumbled this one issue. McGuinty fumbled the last four years. Time for a change.

IAN
said

It's too bad our left leaning media allows the left wing politicians to hi-jack the election by framing it around one issue. I guess the status quo, where Catholics like McGuinty are more equal than the rest of us, will continue to be the case. At least 'the issue' isn't abortion this time.

PC
said

Ontario's racism is really showing through here. Why does the media keep forgetting that Roman Catholics have this right already and that both McGuinty and Hampton are Catholic school supporters? Do reporters not have a problem with that? I do!

The message hasn't gotten out because the media doesn't want Tory to win. Our current school system is an embarassment to this province. If Catholics get a choice, then everyone else should get one too! why is that so difficult for people to understand?

Sad, very very sad!

David
said

What the current system lacks is FAIRNESS. For Catholics they can elect to feed their taxes to Catholic or public school board, why are other faith based groups excluded from similar options? Someone asked, "Should I be expected to fund all of their choices? I cetainly hope not." She's absolutely wrong, under the current system, these faith based families are forced to fund the unfair system which they have benefited from for so long, not the other way around. It's fair to let Ontarians to decide to fund schools that are at their best interest.

Susana C.
said

School is about education and integration into society - not religion...It makes far more sense in today's world to teach tolerance to all. Let the family,churches, synagogues, mosques etc. teach religion. Sorry Mr. Tory you never had my vote even with this reversal.

Rachel
said

It's too bad it has come to this. It was a good stance, but obviously not understood by most Ontarians. People hear "religious" and go crazy. What do you think Catholic schooling is? There were standards to be met for inclusion of funding. This is a reasonable concession considering the issue is so misunderstood. You've still got my vote John!

Andrew
said

If he backs down on his word I think he'll be in a lot of trouble. A lot of people who don't vote Conservative have rallied behind Tory on the faith-based issue in certain communities. They will feel betrayed and like complete fools, since they switched all of their political beliefs for one issue and won't even be getting that in the end.
I don't think it will help that much either to gain back lost Conservative support - they feel equally betrayed as well.

Paul Connolly
said

The Conservatives already made a mess of the Ontario education system when they were in power before, why would the Ontario electorate vote Tory this time around?

don white
said

Tory may be back-pedalling but at least I can vote now.
I understand that some other provinces have gone the divisive route but the Eastern Provinces have one school system only. I, for one do not wish to send my children to an underfunded WASP school. Exposure to other cultures and religions is the wisest path to follow in these troubled times. If Tory wants to take a tough fair stand let him amend the BNA act and eliminate Separate School funding. It's time to join the 21st century.

Linda
said

What is your problem Sandra?Why would you not want to fund this child's education no matter where he, or she receives it.
I can understand a reluctance to pay more taxes to fund a child. Is that your fear? As I see it, that would not be the case. The tax money would simply follow the student from one school to another.
Why should only very wealthy people, who have the money to pay local school taxes AND the price of tuition in the schoool of their choice, be able to choose where to have their children educated?
Are their children more valuable to society?

Frank
said

I happen to be a constituent in Tara's riding and applaud her stance on the subject. I also echo her feelings that the reason this proposal is an issue is because it's misunderstood. I've read a lot about the proposal and I'd support it. I think that if the public would educate themselves things would be much better. Don't accept political rhetoric for the truth...

David
said

Frankly, I don't care how well the funding of religious schools in other jurisdictions is working. As far as I'm concerned, one penny of my taxes going to the funding of religious schools is one penny too many, Catholic or otherwise.

If Mr. Tory said he was withdrawing all funding for Catholic schools and pouring it into the public system, he would have my vote in a heartbeat.

The teaching of the tenets of religious faiths belongs in the home, and within the walls of religious institutions, not in publicly funded schools.

Mau
said

No one should be surprised by John Tory's flip flop. His policies are all basically to take public funds to give to private iterests. Whether it be education, health care or most other issues.

Those screaming not to vote for Dalton saying hes a lier, so is every politician. At least the liberals keep public money in the public realm. If Tory had his way your tax dollars would go directly to a private firm. Not in my Ontario.

Jeff
said

Free vote? Please. Any member who hopes for a cabinet post will vote along party lines. The issue is still one of compounding an unfair situation. When teachers of all faiths can be hired by the Catholic Board, then it is truly a public board.

Eric
said

All that this proves is that Tory should have never even touched this subject. He's back-peddling because he didn't do his homework and consult his party members. Instead he let the religious lobby dictate policy. Despite its alleged success in other provinces, Ontario has far greater numbers of students of each religion. There would be a real problem with voluntary segregation. Segregation creats ingnorance, which in-turn creates intollerance.

Carl
said

Well at least Mr. Tory is changing his stance prior to the election as opposed to lying for votes as "Dalton" would rather do.

T Kumaran
said

Now we know that this is a policy matter John Tory took head on; he was very courageous enough to do so. Many newspapers from all spectrums of political alliances are writing editorials saying the current system hase inadequacies. But no other leader wants to touch it or speak about it. The real call for Ontarians in this election from all of this is to cast their votes in increasing numbers; more participation than previous elections and be the beacon of democracy and help peoples� voice prevail in true style.

K. Blake
said

Entering the volatile subject of funding for Religous Faith based schools should never have been brought into an election campaign. It will lead to Mr. Tory's undoing. In all fairness it is a subject that needs to be debated by cooler heads in between elections and not during. Broaching this subject at this point in time may very well cause the electorate to vote for another Liberal majority. This is not a good thing in light of the broken promises of the past Liberal majority.

Mike L
said

When you give people the choice between voting for a liberal or a liberal they will always choose a liberal.

This policy seeks to expand public education, making private schools teach the public curriculum.

I would expect something like this from the liberals, not conservatives.

Mr. Tory has once again made the PC party another vehicle to elect liberals.

George
said

Janus and others may want to remind of "broken promises."

Let me remind you of the last Conservative government:

Hidden Agenda

Hidden Agenda

Hidden Agenda!

Karen
said

If you open this can of worms, then you have to look at the people who have already put their children through the system and the people who do not have children, they shouldn't pay any school taxes!
We have 2 school systems and they both provide an excellent education for our kids. If "YOU" choose not to use this system and want to send your child to a "PRIVATE" school, then the financial reponsibility of payment is on you, the parent NOT the tax payers to pay for this. Look at Appleby College, do you not think those parents pay for their childs education?
I think, we need to look at all the private schoolings that are opening and find out why? And question the educators in those private factors. Do they "meet" the requirements if you were to teach in the Public or Catholic school's - I believe the standards are very different. Our sytem is monitored, the private sector is not.

Blake
said

I totally agree with Sandra. If the parents choose to send their kids to a private school, it is their decision. I do not see why I should have to pay for their choice.

If these parents cannot afford it, then they should send them to public school, which encompasses a variety of religions and faiths.

I am sorry but I categorically refuse to pay for their choices.

Greg
said

People will say anything to get elected! Then break whether it is McGuinty or Tory!! You don't change your platform with one week left in the campaign!!

douglas
said

If the person or party seeking election wants to support a particular item then it should be talked about behind closed doors with his or her party and brought to the public after they have reached an answer -- not dragged through an election to confuse things.

Andr�
said

I am a true Conservative and this 1 issue platform has been the worse example of how to lose an election...

HOLD POLITICANS ACCOUNTABLE!!!
said

Interesting that he's opening it up to vote. Really I think the issue is that Tory is unclear with what he's proposing. As far as I understand, it's to fund all religious groups and not just the Catholics. I'm also confused at what Dalton supports, he says Public is the only way to go, but will keep the Catholic schools too? Hiprocracy at it's finest.

Whatever you vote people, just don't vote Dalton (Liberal) this go round. If we bring him back in again, we send a message to ALL future candidates that it's ok to lie & cheat to become your leader; because they must know better? What are we,lemmings??? VOTE THESE GUYS OUT!!!

David
said

John, John, John - bowing to public pressure - I had thought you would stick to your guns - nope - alas a politician - not a leader as I had hoped.

Geoffrey
said

"because it's not understood or supported by the electorate"

I have been amazed by this debate as it has unfolded, and believe the lack of understanding may be the key problem. Other jurisdictions have funded faith-based schools for decades. In Alberta, several school districts even have faith-based programs within the public system, and this has only strengthened the public system, not caused divisions.

I wonder if there wasn't enough debate or discussion of this issue in Ontario before the election campaign, resulting in the strong reactions of a surprised electorate who haven't had time to study the actual proposal and its effects elsewhere. Maybe more time will allow Ontarians to make a considered decision on where the province should go with this, rather than a hasty decision based partly on emotion. I think perhaps Mr. Tory is wise to slow down on this important issue.

B.Smith
said

HA! Standing firm on principle, eh Tory? Only if it works in your favour, eh? Looks like some last minute political back-peddling to me. That's just the way politics goes, so don't pretend to be above it.

Janus
said

Broken promises

Broken promises

Broken promises

Sandra
said

What I can't understand, is how has the entire issue has been spun to appear that children from religious school have been prohibited from attending public schools.
No one is standing in front of public schools blocking the entry of children from religious backgrounds. In fact, many children from enviroments of deep faith attend public schools.
The real issue is that the parents of some faith environments choose not to sent their children to the public system. It is a choice they have made. Should I be expected to fund all of their choices? i cetainly hope not.

Ron from Ottawa
said

John Tory has just swung me back to his camp. I am glad a he woke up and is willing to compromise. Count me as a confirmed vote for Tory.

Marcus
said

This is so sad to read this. The error of the interpretation of this issue of "faith-based funding" (which is literally misleading) falls on both sides of the fence. It has not been delivered by the PCs very well and therefore the public has not received it very well, but I also believe the vast majority of electorates don't do their homework either. This proves true based on the paraphrase from PC MPP, Tara Crugnale.
The Liberal Education Minister seems to be not understanding Tory's intention at all (not surprising), his merging of all school systems (standardizing curricula) will NOT "attack the social cohesion of the province"! Merging systems will bring everyone closer together with a common education, no??? The foundation of a (common) culture among peoples is a common educational system. Tory's mention of other FIVE provinces/territories makes one wonder why we're not merging the systems already!
PLEASE GET IT CLEAR, EVERYONE!

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