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The federal party leaders pose for a photograph at the English leaders' debate Monday in Montreal. Prime Minister Paul Martin answers a question during the debate, Monday. Conservative Leader Stephen Harper gestures while answering a question about taxes during the debate, Monday. NDP Leader Jack Layton speaks during the debate, Monday. Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe answers a question during the debate, Monday. Moderator Steve Paikin

Party leaders hammer home themes in debate

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Date: Mon. Jan. 9 2006 11:16 PM ET

The four party leaders tried to sell themselves and savage their opponents at the second English-language leaders debate.

The headline-grabbing moment came early in the debate, when Liberal Leader Paul Martin announced the first act of a new Liberal government would be to bar the federal government's use of the Constitution's notwithstanding clause (see this related story).

During his opening remarks Monday night at the nationally televised event held in Montreal, Martin raised the spectre of a hidden agenda by Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.

"What you need to ask yourself is 'What else would he cut?' He needs to tell us,'' Martin said.

In turn, Harper argued it was time for a change.

Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe stressed the importance of a party loyal only to Quebec's interests, while NDP Leader Jack Layton portrayed his party as the "third option."

Ethics

Moderator Steve Paikin's first question in the Montreal debate was about the income trust affair.

Harper took a sharp shot at Martin, asking, "Will you tell us ... how many criminal investigations are going on in your government?"

The opposition leaders all agreed Liberal Finance Minister Ralph Goodale should have stepped aside when the RCMP announced in late December that it would be conducting a criminal investigation into the Nov. 23 announcement on income trusts.

Some allege that Liberal insiders leaked information about the leak, but Martin said it was just that -- an allegation.

The charter

On the charter, Martin said: "Quite frankly ... the courts shouldn't be overturned by politicians."

In return, Harper said a Conservative government would seek to entrench property rights protection in the Constitution.

On the issue of the notwithstanding clause, Harper said: "I think our Constitution strikes a balance between the British system, where there's just Parliament supremacy ... and on the other hand, the American system, where the courts are always supreme. I think our Charter provides a balance."

Crime

Martin came out strongly in defence of his plan to ban handguns, saying there were 500,000 private handguns in the hands of collectors that were "one break-in" away from being used in violent crimes.

"We need to choke the supply of handguns. Those are the things that kill."

Harper termed the handgun ban as a "phony law," adding, "This is the first government in history that hasn't controlled the flow of guns from the United States."

Meanwhile, Layton said more has to be done to help at-risk youth.

Harper's call for more mandatory minimum sentences received a lukewarm response from Duceppe.

Values

The swingers' club decision by the Supreme Court of Canada last month formed the basis of one question. However, the leaders chafed at answering Paikin's question on the matter.

Layton used the opportunity to talk about public health care as a Canadian value.

Harper said he didn't want a system where either the courts or Parliament reigned supreme in determining such matters.

Martin used quotes from Harper's 1997 speech to a U.S. conservative group, in which Harper praised U.S. conservatives and said unflattering things about Canada (Harper has said that the speech was made in jest).

"Quite frankly, I don't believe Canada was built on American conservative values. It's built on compassion, generosity, sharing and understanding," Martin said.

Harper countered by telling the Liberal leader that "the values of ordinary Canadians are honesty, hard work, integrity and accountability -- and your government has not represented those values in power."

Economy, taxes

Paikin observed there are about 5 million low-income Canadians, including about 1.2 million children.

This triggered an argument over which party's tax policies would be most beneficial to low-income people with Martin also using the opportunity to tout his national childcare program.

"He's been promising childcare since 1993," Layton said of Martin, although the Liberal government has signed agreements with the provinces.

"His tax cuts are regressive," Martin said about Harper's proposals.

Layton said taxes shouldn't go up, but the priority should be on social spending, not tax cuts.

On farming, Harper said the Conservatives would give prairie grain farmers a dual marketing option, thus ending the monopoly of the Canadian Wheat Board.

National unity

Paikin asked Duceppe why there should be a third sovereignty referendum in Quebec, given that Quebecers have twice voted against it.

Duceppe painted it as a difference between individual and collective rights.

"Collective rights are decision-making by a nation, and Quebec is a nation," he said.

Later, Martin said: "First of all, I've never had any difficulty with the word 'nation.'... I've normally referred to Quebec as a peuple (people), but I have no problem making the reference in the way that we're talking."

Duceppe retorted: "We almost had a second premier tonight. You recognized the fiscal imbalance, using the word for the first time; now he came almost to say Quebec is a nation."

But Martin then went on to say: "I have no problem describing what Quebec is all about. I have no problem using the word 'nation.' I've always used that."

Martin said it was crucial for Canada to pull together in face of the economic competition it encounters from China, India and the United States.

Duceppe wondered why Canada didn't join the United States if it was so important to be part of a larger nation.

"He will answer because he's a proud Canadian. Well, I'm a proud Quebecer," Duceppe said, who held up the European Union as an example.

Duceppe said Quebec is not divisible, in response to a question.

The impact of corruption scandals and the inaction of the federal government in dealing with Quebec's legitimate demands, Harper said, "in particular the legitimate demands of Premier Charest, who's probably the strongest federalist leader we've ever seen in the province of Quebec, at least in my lifetime."

Harper said a Conservative government would be prepared to deal with Quebec and other provinces on the fiscal imbalance.

Layton said the country must work to create the conditions so Quebec's National Assembly will sign the Constitution.

The four leaders will go at it again on Tuesday night in a French-language debate. That will be their final direct exchange before Canadians go to the polls on Jan. 23.

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