MacKay dismisses reports of Canada-Taliban talks

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — Defence Minister Peter MacKay is denying reports from Afghanistan that Canadian soldiers are reaching out to members of the Taliban in order to establish peace in the war-torn country.

Canadian military officials in Afghanistan have been quoted as saying they're trying to engage in a dialogue with insurgents -- a move that federal New Democrat Leader Jack Layton has long supported.

"I was pleased to hear that our military on the ground were looking at opening up lines of communication with the insurgents,'' Layton said Saturday while attending a provincial NDP convention in St. John's.

"Our party has always argued that we've got to carve out a path towards peace, it's got to involve some negotiations and discussions, even with those combatants with whom we're engaged in combat.''

Lt.-Col. Gordon Corbould, the new battle group commander, and Sgt. Tim Seeley, a civilian-military co-operation officer for Canada's Provincial Reconstruction Team, were quoted Thursday by the Globe and Mail as saying that channels were being opened to moderate Taliban.

Other officials in Kandahar, who spoke privately, backed up the military's assessment, calling it creative thinking.

But MacKay, who told The Canadian Press on Friday that those same officials don't speak for the federal government, took pains Saturday to reiterate Ottawa's position.

"We are not talking to the Taliban. We are not having direct discussions with terrorists. We won't, will not, that will not change,'' MacKay said.

"What we are doing obviously in reconstruction and development and daily contacts that happen is encouraging people to move away from the Taliban's influence, to renounce violence.''

The Afghan government has the lead responsibility to draw people away from the Taliban's grip, an effort the Canadian military supports, MacKay said.

The notion that Canadian soldiers would be stepping up with Afghans to encourage insurgents in the ravaged province of Kandahar to lay down their weapons and talk has garnered much praise in Kandahar City.

Influential leaders such as Ahmed Wali Karzai, the younger half brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, say it's just the sort of push needed to quell the bloodshed.

Tribal leaders in the hotly contested Panjwaii district, where many Canadian soldiers have died or been injured, have also supported the approach.

Nearly two years ago, the NDP suggested peace talks be initiated with combatants in Afghanistan -- prompting federal Conservatives to call Layton "Taliban Jack.''

"Two years ago, the military was beginning those kinds of discussions, we supported that, said so very publicly,'' Layton said.

"People started calling us names and all of a sudden the official government position was that there couldn't ever be any discussions. We think that that's wrong.''

Karzai has called for peace talks with Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, but hard-liners have demanded the removal of all foreign forces before discussions can begin. They also want a stricter interpretation of Islamic law, political posts and possibly control over some districts and provinces.

Canada and the United States have been the only NATO allies in southern Afghanistan to refuse to speak to militants. The British and the Dutch have both made attempts to either engage in dialogue or establish local ceasefires.

Comments are now closed for this story

Bill from Cochrane
said

Eventually talks must happen. The sooner the better to end the military conflict and get on with the rebuilding of the country.

Johann Flores - Vancouver
said

Know and understand that while the bulk of the Taliban leadership are hardliners who want nothing more than to have power and dominate, a lot of the lower-level grunts are farmers and unemployed countrymen either have no other option to feed their family or have been forced into fighting a fight they'd rather not fight at all.

Negotiations may not work to win over ALL of the bad guys, it would be completely naive to think so, but at least we tried and if we play the numbers we can win some of them over. Just because they're forced to fight for the taliban doesn't mean they're not a father, uncle or brother to those who are innocent in this conflict. Besides with this softer approach we can bolster our "local influence"; the locals will be more willing to share intel and cooperate if they understand that we're trying all avenues and not solely out to kill everything (this might explain the reports of CF personel trying to open talks).

The Afghan government has to lead on the official talks. And for talks to proceed of course some points will be non-negotiable: Security forces will remain in Afghanistan until a sustainable peace is forged either by NATO or the Afghan forces, and those wishing to negotiate must lay down arms and renounce violence and acts of terrorism.

And obviously we can't give the true Taliban government positions or regional controls (or we get a lebanon/hezbolla situation).

Past that point we must learn from the negotiation failures at Musa Qala and the like.

As Canadians we've often touted our ability to get sides to talk so let's put our money where our mouth is this time.

It's Vimy Ridge all over again. We did the impossible then how about now?

Jessica
said

Clearly the approaches that have been taken thus far have not provided a resolution in this ongoing conflict. It's time for a different approach so we can try to prevent any more unneccessary casualties. You won't find peace in the barrel of a gun.

Layton in Moncton
said

If this were a conventional war with conventional enemies then dialogue may get somewhere. But its not. This is a long battle hardened enemy who also happens to be well trained religious fanatics. There is no dialogue that can end this. These people WILL die for their cause. Sadly I think we need to wipe them off the face of the Earth, then and only then can we 'win' the 'War on Terror'. But we cannot and should not do it without our allies, especially the US, as they created the enemy in the first place when they trained them to fight the Soviets. Pour in more troops, more equipment, along with Britain and the US doing the same, we can win. To quote a famous Canadian, "I shall respond with the mouths of my cannons"

In the West
said

Talk does not equal conciliation or weakness.

Dialogue and negotiation are centuries-old traditions in the Middle East.

By acknowledging and showing respect for the less militant and more reasonable factions of the Taliban, *as the Afghans themselves want to do*, it may be possible to disenfranchise the "hard-liners" and actually make some progress toward peace.

Our military leaders in the field know that talking takes fewer lives than shooting. Why don't the politicians get it?

Birdman
said

Negotiating with the Taliban is one thing and what is actually happening on the ground now in Kandahar is entirely the other. We are reaching out to the Afghans as part of an effort by the Afghan Government to separate those Afghans that would support the Taliban and persuade them to remain loyal to the Allied effort and renounce their loyalty to the terrorists. That is far different than 'negotiating with the Taliban'. It is all part of the 'hearts and minds' campaign of any successful counter-insurgency.

Jim McB
said

VK get with the program the NDP have given this country nothing. The Liberals brought in medicare.

People are vexed with Layton because what he proposes is not practical. He proposes giving Taliban prisoners Canadian rights. He is opposed to our mission, openly, and to the minds of many these are not positions that should be held by an MP. He tries to score political points on the backs of our troops.

Seven thousand fresh US troops will be all he negotiation that the Taliban will need to make them pay attention!

ET
said

Brad; they don't have to kiss each other, just lay down their arms and simply tolerate each other. The argument is meant to slowly sway the ground level fighters, and middle management, not to change their fundamental beliefs. Simple tolerance on both sides, and some sort of middle ground for these people, would leave the "higher-ups" with no power.

Tolerence works, just look at Canada. Your criticism is welcome though.

ABG
said

There are two, distinct types of Taliban in Afghanistan. People really should try to learn the difference between them before they take a broad-brush stance on this issue (like Jack). 'Moderate' Taliban, for the most part, are the people who have either been forced into the TB (at gunpoint sometimes) or have been 'educated' to the point where they feel they have no choice but to 'help'. Remember that "Taliban" translated from Pashtu means "student." These "soft" TB have been offered by the Government of Afghanistan a clean slate if they joined the side of peace.
The Hardline TB are the finatics are the ones who seem to stop at nothing to regain power. This includes doping up uneducated young men, sending them off in a car and remote detonating the carbomb. The Hardline TB cannot be negotiated with. the Hardliners know they can beat us through suicide bombing, IEDs and time. The moderate taliban have a chance, if we continue to give them the oportunity for education in a secure environment.

John
said

I fully support the mission in Afghanistan, and how it's been run for the most part, so I almost never agree with the NDP; but why wouldn't you try diplomatic avenues if they're open? You owe it to the soldiers to at least try - who knows, right? At least with an open channel of communication there's a chance. If we can't come to a reasonable consensus, then I guess the Taliban lost their shot at existence.

my take on this
said

Jack Layton, you make me think of a line from a Monty Python movie. Runaway! Runaway!

Jeremy
said

the taliban are terrorist. we Should not be negotiating with them . . their way of Negotiating is road side bombs & sniper shooting, killing innocent people.
im with Balgonie Bob

Steve in Fredericton
said

First: You cannot negotiate with a fanatical element that has no desire to make any form of concession.

Second: The Taliban are such a loosly formed group that their rank and file simply wouldn't abide by any agreements made by their leadership that they felt were wrong (case in point; Arab-Isreali cease-fires). The end result would be un-countered continued attacks against our forces.

Third: In the arena of international politics and diplomacy, Jack Layton is simply inconsequential. No experience, no understanding, and no real impact.

Scott Ash
said

It would have been easier to negotiate with Hitler and Nazi fanatics in WW2 than it would be today with the Taliban.

Religious fantatics are generally more stubborn than political fanatics.

Good Luck if you go to talk to them Jack! Wish you all the best.

Brett
said

At some point a dialogue has to begin. If the Canadian Forces and others are not putting out feelers, they're not doing their job. Considering that they are the ones face-to-face with these people, I am sure they are the best judge of the character of such people and the hazards of the situation. It is probably not a formal strategy yet, but when it is time for that, some ground-work already done is a good thing. This does not mean they are "negotiating with the Taliban or Al Qaeda" though these groups are in the field. There are many others who are just regular Afghans, young men frustrated that there are no jobs and no future. Not to mention they enjoy the excitement of danger and violence, like any soldier. This is something the folks back home might have trouble understanding, worried as they are about their mutual funds and their cholesterol levels . . .

James
said

This is simply the CF raising the white flag of surrender. The only reason to open discussions with the enemy is because defeat is inevitable. An enemy who doesn't want discussions knows that victory is at hand. I don't see the Taliban racing to the table.

dale worsfold
said

if it were to bring peace, i am all for it, but in the past, the taliban only negotiated when it served to provide them more hostages or another opportunity to strike. caution is the word

Nate B
said

When I read these comments I get the impression that some conservative supporters have missed a few days of news. My interpretation of recent developments is that the tories knew all along that the New Democrats were right ... but we can be sure that there will NEVER be a public admission to that effect! We are more likely to hear the "Well: Things Change" spiel, which is so commonly & lazily fallen back upon by management-types when it comes time for them to reveal what their longer-term plan REALLY was ALL ALONG.

Henry
said

Oh yes lets negotiate with the Taliban, maybe as a comprise the women will lose the right to an education, freedom of speech and in exchange they won't blow us up. We could also burn down a few schools to sweeten the deal.

Devon K.
said

While some insurgents in Afghanistan can be reasoned with the bulk of the Taliban and Al Qaeda there cannot.

Those people are psychotic killers who have brutally murdered women for showing their faces and learning to read. They have murdered teachers who taught knowledge that was considered taboo. They turned a soccer stadium into a public execution center murdering hundreds to enforce their iron hold on the country. Today they plant bombs in the roads and in markets and on their bodies to strike allied soldiers and kill civilians who just happen to be near them.

Yes some can be negotiated with but the bulk cannot. They are evil from start to finish and the only way to deal with them is to kill them on the battle field.

That's a sad reality for a nation of idealists who believe in the Blue Helmeted Peace Keeper and that talk can resolve all problems.

freedom lover
said

Canadian military negotiating with Taliban.

Layton approves.

If you're against Layton, you're against the Canadian military's activities in Afghanistan.

Canadian military doesn't know what it's doing in Afghanistan. Is that what you're saying? Go ahead, try to weasel your way out--or are you just going to wait for orders from the boss.

Mojo Magnum
said

Compromise is not an option. Anyone who embraces terrorism must be held accountable. The CF understands that by improving the standard of living for Afghans thru wages from reconstruction projects and not opium, and by offering health care to those same Afghans, they will not swell the ranks of the Taliban when they can afford to be where they want to be.
Home with their families.

London Joe
said

What us Canadians must realize is that many of the people in the Taliban are Afghan citizens and if the Afghan government wants to negotiate with them to try and find peace we should support that effort. It is negotiating with its own people not an invading army.
The Afghan government will be hard up to become a self-sufficient entity by destroying many of its own people in attempt to attain security.
It is easy for us here in Canada to say that there should never be negotiations with the Taliban as we do not have the fighting on our streets. We should butt out and let them try and find peace in their own way even if many of us do not approve of how it is done.

RK
said

It shows how naive some people are. Negotiation with groups like the Taliban "might" have a small chance to succeed if you are winning the war. Try that if they think they have the upper hands, you might as well surrender.

EMG
said

To the Jack Layton critics:

NOBODY wins in Afghanistan. Just ask the Russians. People who think that a military solution is possible there don't know anything about the area's history or its geography. In the end people will either negotiate or see the country go back to what it was.

Don
said

It is well known that the CF's & the Afgahn govt have been talking with lower level Taliban. it is the upper echelon of the Taliban that they won't talk to. the guys that are "cannon fodder" are being offered amnesty. those are the ones that deserve the chance to lead productive lives amongst ordinary Afgahns.

Rob
said

Anything that encourages Jack Layton can't be good for the rest of us.

Joe Canuck
said

Jack Layton is a communist-wanna-be-Lenin, and his positions are weakening Canada, weakening human rights and are just plain wrong. Sure everyone wants peace. Taliban peace is not peace it is enforced facist theology. Jack should not play with fire, he will get burned.

You have to fight for your rights and freedoms Jack.

Mr Chillz
said

I think it's a great idea,....finally, someone who isn't blood-thirsty in our government.

I, am sick & tired of watching my tax money go to killing and war.

Garry
said

Jack Layton is looking at the Afghanistan conflict through rose colured glasses. I think it is time for Mr. Layton to go to Afghanistan and see first hand what our troops are accomplishing and the difficulties they face.

Toronto
said

It's true that soldiers in WWI and WWII played soccer or cards with one another, BUT in those wars it was known that the other side's soldiers were not going to strap bombs to themselves before they came to the game. In this war, that assumption cannot be made. In fact, what better way to take out a few of our boys than to say you want to get together and then blow the meeting place up.

That said, it is understandable that the Afghan government wants to talk to the insurgents. Given that CF will not be over there forever, the Afghan government needs to think about how it will build a properly functioning society. As such, it needs to consider - as many Muslim countries do (i.e. Turkey) - how to accommodate its large Islamic faction as well as other factions.

VK
said

Folks, please stop attacking Jack Layton. Without the NDP, we won't have health care et al. Do you want a politician who can comprise or one who dictates like GWB. History tells us that negotiation is the only long lasting peace initiative. Hardliners don't win, they only inflict more hate. Think about this.

Chris from Edmonton
said

Does Jack Layton feel that if they would have opened a line of dialogue with Hitler in WW2 that it would have avoided the attrocities that took place? The idea that we can begin to negotiate has only come through years of battle and not by talking. Layton has absolutely no idea of what is real in this world. The NDP have been a dangerous entity to Canada throughout the conflict in Afghanistan.

Combat for What, Exactly?
said

The Taliban should've been brought to the bargaining table a long time ago. Karzai even said so. It's not because anyone is getting "friendly" with them or "supporting" them - there's got to be a resolution and it has to involve the input of all players and factions in the region.

Keep treating the Taliban like cannon fodder and all they'll do is keep shooting back, and all that will happen is more war, death, and terrorism. Who wants that? Negotiation and giving a voice to all is the only real way to counter all of these things.

Mackay is the one who should be putting on a uniform and going to the front lines if he thinks endless firefights are the only strategy that'll work. I bet you'd see a call for negotiation from him pretty quick if this was the case!

Layton is right!

Andrew
said

This idea will work great, they just have to remember to post a "Leave Your Suicide Vests at the Door" sign before entering the room.

If only all the worlds problems could be solved by a big group hug.

Brad
said

To ET; Why would you think that you can negotiate with terrorists that have absolutely no value for human life unless you beleive as they do. There should be NO negotiations with the Taliban. How do you attempt to trust people that have shown that they have no integrity.

Al
said

Pretty hard to have meaningful dialog with fanatics. An easy way to tell that you are winning is when they approach you for talks. They then take that opportunity to regroup and try to kill you again. Taliban Jack makes the mistake of thinking they are like us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Whats this guy sniffing?
said

The CF members are advocating the Afghan governments position of reconciliation. They are supporting the Afghan government attempting to convince members of the Taliban to join Afghan society and build a stronger country. Members of the CF have a job to do and they are doing it very well. Negotiations are for polliticians. I think that we should send Taliban Jack over and let him walk the streets and live there outside of the PRT/Strong points/KAF for a day or two and see things on the ground. Then maybe we can take some of his non-senseical spewings kind of seriously. Our governments position makes sense. Conduct security and reconstruction operations and if the Afghan government is enjoying success bringing low level Taliban back into society support their efforts.

Balgonie Bob
said

The Canadian Military has been negotiating with the Taliban since day one. One language that we have been using is M777 howitzer. It's a language that the Taliban understands.

ET
said

Cpl J: that is a very unprofessional attitude. I'm actually quite suprised. Ever hear the story from WWII about the enemy soldiers playing soccer in the middle of a ceasefire/war?

Robrt: At least "Taliban Jack" is interested in peace. And I do think it's time someone tried to negotiate.

I am NOT an NDP'er, but Mr. Layton does have a point. This is not going to be resolved simply through force. Eventually there has to be SOME form of dialogue. The only way two sides, which are ideologically conflicted, are going to be able to co-exist is to have talks and negotiations.

Justin
said

For those screaming for a compromise with the Taliban; compromise implies concession. So I ask what rights and freedom would you be willing concede for peace with the Taliban? Because thats what you're asking Afghans to do.

Cpl J
said

Taliban Jack rides again! I sure hope the Taliban don't see this report, but they likely will.

Robrt Brise
said

Problem Solving

Why doesn't Taliban Jack go to that country
as a negotiator, it sounds like he thinks he knows how to solve that problem!!
That may end up solving two problems this country has!!!
He may like the Talibans methods so much he might just decide to stay there.