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Tory bill proposes violent youth be tried as adults
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Mon. Nov. 19 2007 10:27 PM ET
If the Conservative government has its way, more young offenders would be tried as adults and people would be charged with identity theft before even committing a crime.
Those are just two of the implications in a series of new laws introduced today by the federal Tories.
The proposed legislation tackles a slew of hot-button issues including drugs, gun crime, identity theft and young offenders.
The government introduced their Crime Bill by starting off with proposed changes to the Youth Criminal Justice Act.
These are the key proponents of their proposal:
- Tougher sentences
- Allowing for pre-trial detention
- Allow courts to consider deterrence and denunciation as objectives of youth sentences
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said young offenders need to be held accountable when they commit violent crimes.
"These amendments to the Youth Criminal Justice Act are intended to help hold young lawbreakers accountable to their victims and their community, and instill within them a sense of responsibility for their delinquent or criminal behaviour,'' he said.
The minister also said the new legislation would be tougher on bail conditions for repeat offenders or youth accused of committing violent crimes.
Nicholson also said there will be a more comprehensive review of the Youth Criminal Justice Act next year.
Critics were hesitant to applaud the move.
Yvon Godin, the NDP whip, called the move "smoke and mirrors" on CTV's Mike Duffy Live.
"If a youth is dangerous to the people, the judge already has that power. This bill won't change anything," he told the show's host Mike Duffy Monday.
However, Jay Hill, the Conservative Party whip, said a recent commission in Nova Scotia found that law officials feel like they do not have enough power when it comes to young offenders.
"In the opinion of the inquiry, judges do not have sufficient power to ensure proper detention of a violent youth if he does pose a threat to others," he told Duffy.
Liberal whip Karen Redman said the party agrees the Act needs to be re-examined but that they would want to study the Conservative proposal further.
"We certainly do agree that repeat violent offenders need to be looked at," she said.
"A lot of these recommendations seem to be consistent with the report that came out of Nova Scotia," she continued. "We've said all along we're very supportive of that but we do want to make sure that the principles of the Youth Criminal Justice bill are not undermined."
The most controversial piece of legislation will be the one that deals with identity theft.
As it stands now, the criminal code says it is illegal to use someone else's identity to commit a crime. But the Tories want to change the law so that it makes mere possession of someone else's identity a crime.
Joe Comartin, the NDP justice critic, said the government needs to make it illegal to conspire to commit a crime if they want their identity theft legislation hold up in court.
"We know that we have to do more to both prevent and prosecute identity theft,'' he told the Canadian Press.
"But a blanket prohibition in terms of possession is really, really hard to see that it would survive.''
Critics also slammed a new law that would see minimum sentences imposed on people caught possessing or trafficking drugs. They said it would have little impact on the crime rate and would instead result in the overcrowding of prisons.
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It is about time - as a grandparent I have watched our kids (who were allowed to fail although I do remember some nagging on our part) learn, I have watched our children now micro-manage their children. A big part of it is the fact that there are predators out there and an extreme reluctance on the parents part to alllow freedom that might result in the children becoming victims.
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sean
said
John Smith
said
A person's thinking and behaviour is primarily a reflection of how they have been treated.
If parents do a poor job in raising their children so that they have good thinking and good behaviour, then other innocent people will suffer the consequences of their children's poor behaviour.
If these bad young people know they can get away with being destructive just to have some fun, then they will.
If these bad young people know they will suffer consequences for their actions, then they will think twice.
Steve
said
John Smith
said
A lot of criminals are in the business of stealing people's indentification, only to sell it to others for money.
Currently, you can only be charged with a crime if you use stealing identification to carry out a fraud.
In other words, an innocent person has to suffer loss before people, who are in the business of stealing identifications, can suffer any consequences.
Why wait for that when you can prevent an innocent person from suffering harm?
student
said
Andrew
said
Gisele
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David from Vancouver
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Garry
said
18 year old from Alberta
said
Mike
said
JenX
said
http://198.103.98.138/text/pblct/forum/e112/e112f_e.shtml
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/forum/bprisons/speeches/7_e.shtml
http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/rs/rep/2003/rr03yj-4/rr03yj-4.html
http://www.cpa.ca/documents/Youth_Crime.PDF
http://www.criminology.utoronto.ca/library/strategies.doc
Garry
said
Ry
said
Get your facts straight. Most legislation that comes to the floor of the house (approximately 80%) is not political, its made by Crown servants who do the research and the background work to make legislation as best they can to address the issues of the country.
The Youth Justice Act was created by the Department of Justice, based upon precedent of court rulings and challenges to the former Young Offenders Act and recommendation from provincial ministers. Regrettably, even your revered Conservatives voted in favour of it.
As for this lanky piece of garbage they've tabled before the house, not one thought has been given to the downstream cost effects on the judicial system of this joke. I think if Provincial Ministers sat and did their homework, or listened to their staff to see how much this is going to cost their budgets (it's astronomic), they'd be dragging their jaw to the federal Finance Minister to increase their transfer payments!
If Canadians could truly conceive the costs of these things and the mark-up for having the Government actually do it (unions, laziness, etc.) they would be appalled. There is a reason folks why are laws are tamer than most countries, we can't afford it - plain and simple. Canadian's always seem to think that the Treasury Board is some limitless money tree across from Parliament Hill.... staggering, it really is.
sue
said
RRO
said
Let's address some of the causes but for now let's deal with the results and show the rest of our young people when you do the crime you due the time no matter how old you are.
RRO
said
But in violent crime, the time for education has passed. When youth murder, rape, assault people there are serious issues and they have waved the right to being tried as a child. This is for society's protection.
Ecology Student
said
Hannah
said
With regard to how best to approach our young offenders problem and who/what are to be blamed for the problem, the issue is far too complex to be understood or addressed with myopic, one dimensional ideologies. I do find it curious though, that no one here has noted the influence of pop culture...
LM
said
Albert
said
John
said
Just like in the USA.
This will do absolutely nothing to decrease crime.
All it will do is get more people locked up and pump up the prison industry (more officers, more prison space needed, more prison food, etc. good for economy)
People in this country should face reality and start attacking problems at their roots before it turns into America.
The indifference sown into our society over the past decade or so is causing the crime rates to go up. People have begun to adopt a "nothing to lose" attitude and a lack of respect for other people.
No matter how harsh you make the laws nothing will change for the better. It won't matter how many inanimate objects and ideas you declare war on--war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on anything as long as it distracts from the real problem and makes us think we are making progress for the better.
Wake Up!
John
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Dave
said
K dub
said
Steve
said
Kevin Ducharme
said
Canadian
said
Neil
said
Ian
said
Janus
said
Robert -- Young Offender only for those 13 or younger. Another great point!
Parents are the biggest problem.
Dave in Surrey
said
-Brian-
said
The real question is: To what age will this new legislation be applied? It seems, each year, younger and younger offenders are appearing to commit starker offences. Soon, I can imagine even six year old kids being charged with drug trafficking. If such offenders were sent to jail, they would sure find out a lot of how to operate in the criminal world, for sure!
Tom Trenton
said
2/age of protection(246 days)
3/reverse onus for bail for firearm possesion(211 days)
Quit playing games and get something done for all the people of Canada, and not just your political party besides wasting tax paying dollars!
johnn
said
"Real problem is lack of education resulting in increased youth crime. We need to do something about that area."
I fully agree. However, most education in basic values occurs in the home.
If we could bring back some of the (currently often belittled) "old-fashioned family values", a lot would change.
If only parents would be the role models they should be . . . .
Raymond
said
Frederick Stom
said
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7102054.stm
It highlights a report 'The Unlocking America report' Please read before you look for a prison system based on USA failures. It would be nice to see the Canadian press pick up on stories like this and give a balanced news story.
Ken
said
The identity theft legislation scares me to death though. If it is not written correctly, it basically means that if you even store someone's credit card number in a database for e-commerce purposes, technically, you can be charged, as that is PII. I hope the critics tear this to shreds and make sure it's done properly.
robert
said
Just became 23 year old boy
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Jason
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MH from Ontario
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Kevin
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Gayle
said
As someone who works with these offenders, allow me to put a few facts on the table.
First - for those of you who want to blame the parents, in my experience a substantial portion of youth offenders come from the Child Welfare system. This means we ALL are their parents. I suggest rather than complaining about the youth justice system you speak to your provincial government about what a terrible job they are doing with the children in their care.
Second - the provisions sought by the conservatives are already available. The YCJA actually increased the sentences for violent crimes, as well as created a presumption of an adult sentence after 3 serious violent offences have been commited. The concept of denunciation is built into the YCJA for particularly heinous offences, and the concept of deterrence has been proven, time and time again, to be false.
Third (this is to Tom T), the conservatives are misleading you when they claim the opposition held up those bills. Most of those bills were included in a liberal motion made last March to fast track them. The conservatives refused to do so.
Fourth - murder convictions never come off the record even for youth offenders.
Fifth - this is absolutely true:
"Building jails and hiring prosecutors does nothing to address the cause of youth crime nor does cutting every social program under the sun, including education. This policy is not proactive, rather it is reactive and lacks any type of foresight to deal with the issue from a root cause perspective."
The violent young people I deal with were almost all subjected to violence and other forms of abuse as children. Where were the social agencies that are supposed to intervene and assist them?
The simple fact is that most Canadians do not care what happens to these children - at least not until those children become teenagers and commit crimes.
Because I work with offenders, I also work with victims. Many of the youth I work with have been sexually assaulted, and/or murdered. What I wonder is when the governments will commit to doing something to PREVENT crime, rather than simply react to it. With all the money the conservatives have commited to their tough on crime approach, where will we find the money to treat these youth?