Romanow fears 'patchwork-quilt' health care

Roy Romanow, the former premier of Saskatchewan discusses public and private healthcare and also says the public healthcare system is the most effective.

CTV's Question Period: What new system is needed?

Preston Manning, the former Reform party leader discusses the concern that the current healthcare system can't be financed and also what new thinking is required in the healthcare debate.

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Former Saskatchewan premier Roy Romanow appears on CTV's Question Period on Sunday, Nov. 27, 2011.

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Kevin Scanlon, CTVNews.ca

Date: Sun. Nov. 27 2011 10:20 PM ET

Former Saskatchewan premier Roy Romanow warns that pushing provinces to raise funds for their own health-care systems would create a "patchwork quilt Canada" of health coverage, with the have-not provinces losing out.

In the wake of a two-day meeting in Halifax this week that laid the groundwork for a new health accord, Romanow spoke to CTV's Question Period about the dangers of cutting back on federal funding.

"It would be the end of a national program of medicare," he said.

The Canada Health Transfer, created under the Liberals in 2004, expires in 2014. In this fiscal year, Ottawa will send $27 billion to the provinces for health care and that figure is expected to climb by six per cent annually.

When the national medicare program began in 1965, Ottawa paid half of the provinces' health care costs. But now, it covers less than a quarter of the costs.

Former Reform Party leader Preston Manning said the time for talking about the future of health care is over because today's model is fiscally broken.

"The current system can't be financed," the head of the conservative Manning Centre said.

"We need fundamental changes in how health care is organized. I'd like to see more flexibility … allow provinces to experiment with various systems."

Manning, who said the universality of health care could be maintained while experimenting with a blended system of public and private health care, pointed out that many European countries have already gone to mixed systems.

Romanow, who in 2001 headed a royal commission on the future of health care, said the public system is more efficient than a blend of public and private care. He cited the United States where health costs are 15 per cent of the gross domestic product, far below Canada where it is 10 per cent.

"The notion of private and public is a bit of a mistaken debate," he said. "The evidence is very, very clear that the core provision of health services is more effectively done through the public model."

The Halifax meeting of provincial and territorial health ministers with their federal counterpart Leona Aglukkaq was short on details when it concluded on Friday. But Aglukkaq did say any funding discussions would be left to the premiers when they meet with the prime minister early next year.

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Now the Canadian Public can feel the love.
said

ow the public will have a taste of what our injured war vets have been dealing with; an uncertain medical future. Since the Federal government has declared war on our injured vets, and the Canadian public has shown no real support, our vets have lost the battle. Their long term disabilities has been sliced in half since 2005, under the guise of the New Veteran's Charter, and the gloom continues with claw backs of the small about of money they receive. They have had their voice, Ombudsman Pat Strogan, taken away, replaced with a yesman who bows down to Mr Harper. When you do not support the most vulnerable in your society, it is only a matter of time, and the general public is also violated. Looks like the time has come. Two tier health care is here to stay.

John sask
said

Curtis, you can also look up how Romanow looks after universal medicare. Check Sask hospital closures april 14/93 when Romanow was Premier (91-99) He closed 52 out of 112 rural hospitals! Look that up before you talk about what a great job he did getting overpaid to do nothing but talk. He is a typical socialist who talks about good when he has no responsibility but when he is a position to do some good, they do nothing but tax and spend on their own agenda.

Ivan
said

If people want to pay, then buy a ticket to the US and buy as much healthcare as you want. Keep your hands off our universal system.

Curtis
said

Romanow engineered one of the biggest public consultation programs of the last 50 years during his commission. He met with stakeholder groups from private, public, co-op, individual, and government stakeholders during his commission. Anyone here who thinks that his comments are "leftist" or "socialist" exhibit a line of thinking that is, quite frankly, morose and completely uninformed. Some of his recommendations included outsourcing some public services while maintaining a core of dedicated services. His report is one of the most balanced you will ever see in the history of political discourse. Most of the problems with our health care system stem from a lack of legislative reform and a failure to address that hospitals and doctors only account for less than 40% of our health care spending, yet are frequently the one area of health care spending that we pile money into at the expense of larger costs such as long term care, drug costs, and home care (which account for the other 60% ... and growing in proportion). Many of these comments bashing him for no real reason are such a waste of time. Read the report yourself, it's available online.

David
said

Once a socialist, always a socialist it seems. People like Romannow like to have the working person look after the ones who do not. Guys like him will make another Greece out of Canada, if they had the power. Why is he not a leader in Sask., anymore, is it because the people have smartened up or the unemployed did not go and vote.

A Concerned Canadian
said

Universal health care is worth the cost, period.

allam
said

i remember we paid this guy thousands of dollars for useless information on the health system. He is a diehard socialist, stuck in the past. I sure hope we are not still paying for his useles info.

Jonathan from Saskatoon
said

If Romannow wanted to show how the blended system was a failure why didn't he cite the UK model? Or Sweden's? " Those are blended models that are quite a bit more efficient than Canada's. And somehow, there is a sufficient supply of well trained medical staff for both parts of the system.I'll never understand why these leftists so fear looking at any alternative to our current model. It reminds of the Catholic church during the Protestant reformation. Thank goodness burning at the stake is no longer politically correct.Of course being a former NDP premier from Sk, he is indebted to big public sector unions who fear private sector efficiency.

Kevin B
said

Romanow is the past ... the old ways were tried, and still are being tried. And they're not getting it done. Keep the universality, but what do I care if the hospital I go to is run privately or by public servants? Every doctor in Canada is a private operator. As long as gov't regulates each hospital to make sure corners aren't being cut, and as long as I can show my health card and receive service, then that's all I need.

Frank Buchan
said

No matter how good a politician looks in a suit, they still have all have one thing in common: no imagination. The idea that we cannot have better health care is true only so long as this lack of imagination governs us.

Mark
said

Sorry...why does anyone care what this poster boy for the NDP thinks about healthcare? Why not ask a realist who understands something about the economy, real life and some sense of accountability?

Guelph Observer
said

Yes, that's exactly the way it will turn out. Harper has no intention (and probably not capable of) showing any leadership qualities to formulate a new and more cost effective health care system in this country. So the provinces will be left to fumble around on thier own - all at ever increasing taxpayer expense.

Dave in Edm
said

Conservatives always say things are broken and unrepariable in order to privatize what they want... They are uncapable of fixing anything and maintaining something that many Canadians hold dear... They will preach a European style system, ignoring that it would likely fail in Canada due to our proximity to the USA and its massive system of bloated prices and poor care other than for the wealthy... Harper will bring us American style health care and continued deficit, it will be his and the Conservatives downfall...

Homer
said

Ever hear of this little thing called NAFTA? It has been in all of the papers. If we start messing with health care, big U.S. Medicine will move into our market and that will be the end of it. People who are claiming we can be like Europe are just selling bs.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Romanow is right. A nation's universal healthcare system (socialized medicine) can't simply be orchestrated at the federal level; it must also be ADMINISTERED at the federal level. In political and economic terms, that is ideologically correct. By "sharing" the burden with its separately-governed provinces, constitutionally, Canada got it wrong. By "shifting" the burden, gradually, over decades, Ottawa has bastardized the system and weakened it. Having said this, however, my steadfast conviction is that a purely universal healthcare system without major administrative and managerial cost controls, and consistent efficiency measures, is doomed. (Canada's healthcare system is "unsustainable" according to unbiased experts.) Even libertarians acknowledge that government can deliver certain things as well as, or better, than the private sector...with proper execution. What we have in Canada, unfortunately, is a sloppy, ill-conceived mess blindly supported by a citizenry with its collective head in the sand and distractedly obsessed with being "better" than the U.S. in the healthcare department. Internationally, in fact, our medicare system doesn't carry a stellar rank. Much of our pride is foolish and misplaced.

Hilton Shand
said

The costs of health care have been studied by many credible organisations many times. Canadas cost are not out of line with other industrial nations. If any nation had a system that reduced these costs, and maintained good health care, it would have been identified long ago. It is costly, but we can afford it. The notion that private insurance can deliver it more cost effectively is not supported by the facts compiled by many studies.

lc
said

Seems we have many here who prefer a American private style system that leaves millions uninsured, refuses coverage to many when they do get ill even though they have private insurance,forces seniors to chose between food and meds,bankrupts many for having the nerve to become ill and amazingly spends far more of its GDP than we do to accomplish this disaster.Makes one wonder how many opining the non-sensible comments seen here forgot their meds.One thing is certain any politician who dares try to point us to a American system is toast.So please Harper follow the advice of those promoting a 2 tier system and make our day!

Greg Orbman
said

Health Care is expensive in all nations with advanced economies, and Canadas spending is not excessive relative to these other nations. The costs of administration do not vary much among these nations. Some things are expensive and health care is one of them. We can afford it. Housing, food, and vehicles are expensive also; we spend more on these than we do on Health Care. The issue is that wages are not keeping pace with costs. Politicians are getting elected by rhetorical claims that they will bring the costs down, but they will not unless they reduce accessibility of health care. What politicians should be focused on is reducing unemployment. If they did this the cost of health care would come down relative to GDP (more than it will by slashing health care spending.)

Curious Senior Faye in Ontario
said

Can anyone explain to me...just your average joe bloe citizen...why in the mid nineties people stopped paying into OHIP? l paid into it via my pay cheque since OHIPs' inception and l don't remember hearing all of this hoopla about doctor shortages and hospital care shortages and nursing shortages. lt seems to me that folks paid their way and could expect the care they required when they became ill. What happened that no contributions were required any longer? I don't understand how anyone can go to a bank and expect to get money out of an empty account, and basicly that is what we have been doing for the last 15 to 20 years. What is wrong here?

Vancouverite
said

It's amazing that with Europe close to collapse because of governments who have followed the Roy Romanow doctrine, he still thinks we can sail cheerfully ahead with unlimited universal benefits. The brave and heroic figure in this situation is Preston Manning, who has some wisdom even although the truth is not what many people want to hear.

Parker Brown
said

Canadas health care spending as %GDP and $ per capita is about the same as that of other nations with GDP per capita comparable to Canadas. Health Care is expensive; that is the fact for all nations. It is nonsense to suggest that we cannot afford health care. Per capita we spend More on incidental luxuries than we do on health care (eg: tobacco, alcohol, coffee, high fuel consumption by inefficient vehicles). Also, it is misleading to say that some other industrial nations have mixed public and private insurance. In these nations the Private Insurer is responsible for administration only, and the government refunds them the Health Care payments (except in America.) The OECD has recently conducted a study on this, and the data does not indicate that these Private Insurers are more cost effective (in some cases they are less efficient.) We spend much more per capita on housing, food, and transportation. These are the essentials for which cost is becoming unsustainable. We should be concerned with keeping the cost of housing, food and transportation in line with wages.

Jim McB
said

Why do they keep avoiding the truth: we already have a blended system. I pay my basic medicare with steep federal and provincial taxes, I pay for Blue Cross out of my pocket as I do for Seniors Pharmacare and dental care. Then I have to pay a premium on my property tax to pay for the health care of the welfare folks that I support who get everything for basically nothing. That looks pretty belnded to me!You can never reach a solution to a problem unless you face the reality of the situation. The media interviewing yesterday's socialists is not the source of information that we need for the future. Romanow like politicians of all stripes hasn't got a clue, it will be number crunchers that find the way ahead and the rest of us will pay the toll. The poiticians will come after the fact to blame and fame each other depending on the spin of the day!

Jeff
said

A forgotton point is that we can not afford to spend another %6 a year every year. That would double the cost in about 12 years. Completely undoable and the sooner we accept that fact the better

MARG MM
said

Of course he says that, he is NDP, they always"set their hair on fire" at the very mention of private. The system as we know it cannot be sustained. Pumping more money into it won't help. I don't understand why the Provinces can't try different avenues, and why the medicare system can't pay the fee for someone to use a private clinic for diagnostic purposes. The private clinic would put up the money for diagnostic equipment, and staffing, which probably in the long run would be much cheaper than any Provincial Government can provide, then would be reimbursed through the medicare system. It would also cut down on wait times. As it is, we already have a two-tiered system, many people have extra coverage through private plans, plus medicare is not "free", as most Provinces (with the exception of Alberta, I believe) charge a monthly fee, which is reduced for low income families. It is time to take a really good look at how our medical system is run, trim the "fat" and bring in some type of public/private partnership that will benefit all. We would still have a universal system where no on is denied care, but I'm sure it could be run much more efficiently. I do believe that those with serious illnesses are well taken care of promptly,but there is always room for improvement.

Mark J.
said

Take your pick: Everyone pays far more in taxes so the system has the money to improve. Or allow those with more money to pay into our system (like they already do) AND let them pay more for private healthcare. We already do it for the laser surgery, the dentist, the optometrist, breast implants, etc. Would you really want to pay far more in taxes so your rich neighbour's kid can have braces? Well I think we should let the rich pay for procedures out of their own pocket if they want to. It leaves more money in the pot for me in the regular system.

Jim - North Saanich, BC
said

This is a typical NDP response. Throw more money at the problem, create even more bureacracy and when that fails to improve things, repeat the exercise ad naseum. A previous suggestion that closing down desks and opening hospitals makes a great deal of sense. I've always believed that you can solve problems far better at the local level than can the over-paid bureaucratic pooh bahs in the provincial capitals and Ottawa as every time one of them trys to "fix" the situation, the problem becomes worse and throwing money at the problem is not a solution. I am on my way south in a couple of months to get a follow up to a pre-cancerous condition diagnosed and treated down there nine years ago because, quite simply, I can not get the necessary followup here because as one other individual suggested, BC is not a case of can not, it is a case of will not. My rejoinder to those who tell me about the evils of allowing private health care in to the Canadian system is not printable.

Francesco
said

What I gathered from this discussion is the echo of distant drums. Those drums that the Conservatives are beating over lowering the national deficit. Guess where the cuts are going to be for the feds and guess who will have to pick up the cost difference? Does anyone else see provincial tax raises to pay for federal deficit cuts?

James T Murphy
said

Other than the fact that health care is constitutionally provincial jurisdiction, Romanow's answer to everything is always larger bureaucracy and with it higher taxes. That was the result of his health commission report and that's his answer now. Ever notice that the left's answer to health care is that there are only 2 possible models; US or Canada's. There is no other way to deliver health care. So we basically are told we have to accept the lesser of 2 evils. Wrong!!!

ouifyg
said

Creating a private healthcare system to parallel our public healthcare system is only going to exacerbate our doctor shortage. There won't be twice as many doctors. And where do you think the doctors we do have will go? Out of the public system and into the private system for a higher wage. But at least the rich will receive good care.

Ron
said

Someone remind this guy that Health Care is a provincial jurasdiction. Besides, it's already a 'patch work'. Just look at the 'crowing' Saskatchewan made during their last provincial election about how they were poaching doctors from Alberta to improve "their numbers". Or, for that matter, similar ideas being spouted by McGuinty in Ontario.Health Care is broken -- already -- and the funding is unsustainable -- already. It's a pipe dream to believe that this can be fixed. Want proof? go study the trends in Quebec. Already in massive debt, and being subsidized to the tune of $8 B a year in transfer payments, they'll end up spending 100% of their provincial revenues on Health Care in what? 20 years.Bottom line: Canada needs to get public system that provides basic (and I mean BASIC) health care. The rest will need to be funded privately, through insurance, etc.

Ron
said

John, Sask
said

Roy Romanows solution will be the same as he did in Saskatchewan. Close some hospitals (52) and reduce nurse training spots by a third then raise personal taxes by double didgets. Just an NDP hack. For everyones sake, don't listen to him

Will
said

The problem is that people expect big brother (aka the government) to pay for everything, the differences between provinces reflects how much the population demands - regardless of affordability or reasonability. The NDP (as usual) are the worst for demanding coverage of anything and everything. Sorry, but the big R, has nothign to offer here.

spaz
said

Can anyone tell me how big a slice of the funding pie "administration" takes ????When funding becomes short the hospitals close beds.....have they ever thought of closing desks instead ???

Mike vdB - Chatham, ON
said

Just think of the money we would have to fund the health care system if our public debt wasn't so high. Wasting a tonne of money to service debt that shouldn't be there in the first place. That money could be better invested elsewhere.

Redneck Albertan
said

If we cannot afford the system we have, we must develop a system we can afford. I never understood why some people are so against any kind of privatization, because when I'm sick I just want to get better, regardless of who makes money (my least concern). Experiment, play around, tweak and then come back with something sustainable.

B.B Sask.
said

Too bad Roy Romanow wouldn't run for NDP federally. Might gain some more seats in Canada with a smart man like him in power. Just sayin.

A Koster
said

have-not.. or, as is increasing evident here in BC, do everything in their power in order to will-not ..

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