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This screen grab from a new Tory ads, which is a clear attack ad targeting Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation, was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011. This screen grab from a new series of NDP ads starring Leader Jack Layton was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011. Prime Minister Stephen Harper takes part in an announcement in the Library of Parliament on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Monday, February 28, 2011. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick) Prime Minister Stephen Harper attends a press conference in Vancouver on Monday, Feb. 21, 2011. This screen grab from a new Tory ads, which is a clear attack ad targeting Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation, was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011.

NDP, Tories release ads as Parliament resumes

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CTV News Video

CTV National News: Roger Smith on election
Federal politician returned to the House of Commons and updated their election plans.
Power Play: Barry McLoughlin, president
The president of McLoughlin media explains why he thought Jack Layton's attack ads against Stephen Harper were effective.
Extended: New Tory ad
This ad released by the Conservatives targets Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation.
Extended: New NDP ad
NDP unveiled a new series of ads starring Leader Jack Layton that are designed to draw attention to the economic and social challenges that Canadians are facing and to put pressure on the government to fix them.
Question period: Liberals grill Tories
Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says four Conservative MP's accused of criminal charges due to overspending on ad campaigns undermined Canadian democracy. Conservative MP Pierre Poilevre countered that a federal court ruled in favour of the Conservatives.
Question period: NDP says Tories broke promise
NDP leader Jack Layton says the Conservative government broke it's promise to put an end to partisan scandals and the prime minister should clear the senate of its fundraisers. Parliamentary Secretary Pierre Poilievre says the issue has been dealt with.

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This screen grab from a new Tory ads, which is a clear attack ad targeting Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation, was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011. This screen grab from a new series of NDP ads starring Leader Jack Layton was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011. Prime Minister Stephen Harper takes part in an announcement in the Library of Parliament on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Monday, February 28, 2011. (THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick) Prime Minister Stephen Harper attends a press conference in Vancouver on Monday, Feb. 21, 2011. This screen grab from a new Tory ads, which is a clear attack ad targeting Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation, was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011.

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This screen grab from a new Tory ads, which is a clear attack ad targeting Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation, was released on Monday, Feb. 28, 2011.

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Date: Mon. Feb. 28 2011 9:16 PM ET

The Conservatives and New Democrats released new campaign-style ads Monday, while opposition members used Parliament's return to hammer the government over allegations that senior Tory officials violated elections laws.

Members of Parliament returned to the House Monday after a week-long break and the Liberals and NDP wasted no time jumping on news that broke late last week that Elections Canada has laid charges against four senior Conservatives.

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reported Thursday that the charges relate to allegations the Tories exceeded their national advertising expenses by $1.3 million during the 2006 vote. It's alleged that the party improperly reported the shared expenses of 67 candidates.

"Last week, four members of the prime minister's inner circle were accused of serious allegations in connection to Canada's election law," Ignatieff said Monday during question period.

"This is the result of years of investigation by Elections Canada and the public prosecutor. (The) question for the prime minister and the government is do they not understand that playing fast and loose with Canada's election law undermines Canadian democracy?"

Both Ignatieff and Liberal MP Marc Garneau, as well as NDP Leader Jack Layton, asked repeated questions of the government related to the election law charges, all of which were met with the same answer by Tory MP Pierre Poilievre, parliamentary secretary to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"This is a debate between us and Elections Canada," Poilievre said in both French and English. "It's been going on for five years. Luckily, the federal court has ruled in favour of the Conservatives and against Elections Canada."

The charges are not criminal ones, but a guilty verdict can lead to a $1,000 fine, three months in jail, or both.

The four Conservatives facing charges are:

  • Sen. Doug Finley, a former campaign manager
  • Sen. Irving Gerstein, a chief party fundraiser
  • Michael Donison, the party's former executive director
  • Susan Kehoe, a senior Conservative staffer

Elections Canada alleges the Tories used a so-called "in-and-out" scheme to exceed the spending limit based on rebates on expenses that had not actually been incurred.

The charges are separate from a civil case the Conservatives launched against Elections Canada over the same financing questions. In that case, the Federal Court ordered Elections Canada to reimburse to Conservative candidates for their ad expenses. Elections Canada appealed that ruling, as did the Tories.

Layton called on the prime minister to "do some house cleaning" and turf the two senators who are facing charges out of the Upper Chamber.

He also accused the government of failing to censure officials accused of misconduct, referencing also the ongoing scandal swirling around International Co-Operation Minister Bev Oda.

House Speaker Peter Milliken is in the midst of deciding whether Oda should be censured for her actions, or whether her conduct should be examined by a House of Commons committee. At the moment, it is not clear how Milliken will rule.

Oda recently admitted to having a staff member alter a document in a way that prevented a church-based foreign aid group called Kairos from receiving funding from the Canadian International Development Agency.

The Tories have defended Oda, saying that it is the minister's prerogative to overrule the recommendations of her officials.

Government House Leader John Baird praised Oda's work Monday, telling the House that she was "entitled" to make the decision not to award $7 million to Kairos.

"This minister has done an outstanding job in Africa, an outstanding job promoting the rights of women and children in Afghanistan, and when the people of Haiti needed a friend, they certainly had one in this minister," Baird told question period.

Opposition parties maintain that Oda misled the House of Commons before she admitted her role in altering the document, when she said that it was CIDA that decided not to give any money to Kairos, and not the minister herself.

Despite the controversy that has raged in the Commons over the minister and the document, the public appears to have hardly noticed the day-to-day battles between Oda and the opposition. A recent poll suggests that half of Canadians, in fact, had not even heard about the story.

NDP pushes Tories on proposals

Monday also marked the release of a new series of ads from both the Tories and the New Democrats.

The new Tory ads were of two distinctly different styles -- one was a monologue narrated by Harper, while the other was a clear attack ad targeting Ignatieff's approach to taxation and job creation.

Meanwhile, the NDP is unveiling a new series of ads starring Layton that are designed to draw attention to the economic and social challenges that Canadians are facing and to put pressure on the government to fix them.

"These days, lobbyists, senators and insiders are getting all the breaks, while more and more seniors are struggling just to pay their bills," Layton says in one of three new ads that can be viewed on the NDP website.

"We have to do better. It's time to roll up our sleeves, put the partisan games aside, and start getting results."

Outside of the television ads, the NDP have called for $2 billion worth of proposals to be included in the upcoming budget, including a beefed-up Canada Pension Plan and Guaranteed Income Supplement, a revival of the home eco retro-fit program and the abolition of a federal sales tax on home heating fuel.

The NDP says its newly released ads "will increase pressure" on the prime minister to adopt their proposals in the forthcoming budget.

A release from the party says the televised, English-language ads will run across the country for the rest of the week. The party will release French-language ads next week.

Fife said the decision to buy such an expensive series of ads is a sure sign that the NDP expects that an election is near.

"We're really into an election now when you see the NDP starting to run ads," Fife said.

Layton says an election is a real possibility if the government does not take his party's suggestions seriously.

"If the prime minister's serious about getting things done, he has concrete New Democrat proposals in front of him," Layton said in a statement released Monday.

"If he's not willing to work with others, he should know that New Democrats are well prepared to fight an election."

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

ROB
said

instead of releasing ads, why don't all the leaders and parties try to get together and do something for this country instead of their greed to get power and line their pockets on the backs of the average joe!! a novel idea for a change.


peter in BC
said

I'm having enough of the Conservative ads myself. Taking snippets of sentences from your opponents and making an attack ad that takes that sentence out of reference is pathetic. And the fact that these ads by the Conservatives actually sway some people TO the Conservatives is even more pathetic. Time to give your head a shake. On a side note, I feel that unless an election is actually going to happen, political attack ads should not be allowed. You are just as bad as the speculators on the market creating false fears to bend public opinion. We, the public, don't want to hear your whining about how you can't win a majority government. Harper, you are slimy and a weasel. Good luck to ever gaining more power than you currently have! I know I'll never vote for you!


Scottish Terror
said

Disgusting...Canadians deserve better


Cow Pye
said

Bringing out the attack ads so well in advance of an election smacks of desperation. Harper seems to be obsessed with power and getting a majority. I really hope he doesn't get one.


allan
said

Please observe some U.S. states, such as Ohio, Wisconsin, where increases in corporate taxes have cause the loss of thousands of jobs.It is not rocket science folks, if business can find a more tax-friendly atmosphere to operate, they will go there. Any fool can increase taxes, but it takes brains, know-how to cut taxes and promotebusiness, which benefits society as a whole.Ignatieff, I think , doesnt have a chance in becoming p.m., and Layton, well he doesnt even warrant a comment as he is insignificant as are the rest of the perverts in his party.


Hagios
said

I am 60 years young. I have been involved in politics on both sides over the decades. One thing I can guarantee you is a coalition which includes a party dedicated to the destruction of Canada is not a good option. The coalition would be forced to compromise and appease the Bloc for their support and that is wrong. The best thing now is give the Conservatives their majority and let the Liberals rebuild otherwise they won't get rid of Iggy as they won't have reason to clean house and present a PROPER rebuilt alternative political choice which isn't happening now. PM Harper hasn't screwed it up and he won't, he likes being top dog to mess up. I was born and raised in Quebec and left because of separatism and I take the Bloc threat seriously. If we love Canada then keep the Bloc away from any power over our government. They don't love Canada like we do.


Maurice
said

I have been a conservative for over 20 years, so I cannot comment without a little bias. I feel safer having our future in the hands of Steve and his boys as opposed to Mikey "Lets spend and tax these poor working slobs to death" Ignattief (did I spell it right - aah, it doesn't really matter anyway) . or even better let's get Chairman Jack " Let's spend our way into near bankruptcy" and his regime to be in charge of our nation's coffers....


Richard L. Provencher
said

I can't wait for an election so the Conservatives can get their majority and get on with running the country without all the barking from the opposition. Jack says PM not co-operating on budget. Well Jack, the Conservatives are NOT going to shelve the corporate tax reductions which create lots of jobs. The NDP in NS are doing the same as the Conservatives.


Dr. Bruce Gillis
said

It is clear some of you never took economics. Let me try to explain. The less business taxes means more corporate investment from foreigners and nationals and the more new industry for us which equals more jobs which equals more incomes for those who buy products and services and GST and more income in the hands of Canadians equates to more employed paying tax which means the lower tax rate applied to business comes right back to the government and Canadians in a positive way. Check it out it's Economics 101.


Michael
said

Prime Minister Harper is NOT going to privatize health care, nor touch the death penalty, nor touch abortion. Have you people not been listening to his interviews? Besides he wouldn't dare do that and alienate the country. This is a government that simply "gets it" and knows that good government requires a slow and steady pace of incremental improvements not wholesale moves like Iggy is proposing which would send our economy into an immediate tail spin with his carbon taxes etc.


ryan
said

If you want change make it happen, make an effort, mail your MP, picket your local MP's office whatever, if people cared they would make there PRESENCE felt. In the age of the net, if it were possible for everyone to vote on every single bill from the municipal to federal level do you think things could be different? Being able to really have a say, wouldnt that be nice? For government to be held accountable at the citizen's level? No excuses then, life could then be less irritating.


Doug
said

No small business people out there, the Conservatives have done a great job for us. There is a reason we are doing better than the States who we normally depend on to drag us back after a recession. Don't look to deep this is just politics.


Carl
said

Contrary to what the Liberals keep saying, the charges filed by Elections Canada are not "criminal" charges, and no one has been charged with "fraud." The charges are for offences under the Elections Act, and do not carry a criminal record. And contrary to what the NDP keeps saying, the Prime Minister has no authority to remove Senators from the Senate - the Constitution says there is only one way a Senator can lose his or her seat, and that is if they are convicted of a high crime. The charges filed by Elections Canada do not meet that criterion, even in the unlikely event that they lead to a conviction.


Mr. Not a Pye Chart
said

I just took the time to watch the Con attack ad and AGAIN these lying Cons are spinning things that aren't actually true. What Iggy has said is to not allow this FURTHER TAX BREAK to big business. Nowhere has he said he will RAISE TAXES. Not giving a PROPOSED tax break is not raising taxes but the Cons word it the way they want to AGAIN lie to the public. I happen to agree totally with the opposition on this one because not one of the Corps will ever create jobs with these tax breaks but if you're a shareholder you will get a bigger dividend. Tax breaks are never passed on to the little guy,,,,,just investors


B in Ottawa
said

The new television advertisements released today offer two different visions of Canada. On the one hand, we could give power to Michael Ignatieff. This is a man who was out of Canada for 34 years and came back solely to become Prime Minister. He's not in it for Canada. He's just in it for himself. Ignatieff also backed an undemocratic backroom coalition with the high-tax NDP and separatist Bloc to take power. Again, he didn't come back for Canadians. On the other hand, Stephen Harper and the Conservatives are providing strong and effective leadership for the Canadian economy. Cutting taxes, providing stimulus through the Economic Action Plan and now working toward a balanced budget. With the recovery still fragile, Canada can not afford to be put in the hands of a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition. Canada must keep taxes low, and remain a strong united country. With the strong leadership of Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party of Canada, that will continue to happen.


Brett from UTSC
said

Jack is right about people not being able to afford the bills. Thanks to Dalton MCGuinty. Harper majoity in May, Hudak majority in October


vancouver mike
said

I just don't know what to think of the conservatives anymore. One things for sure i won't trust them or prime minister harper again especially with the country's finances.


Blue
said

I see a conservative majority in the horizon. Once we have that, we can get rid of the remaining social programs and privatize helth care. We have a majority this time for sure...all you liberals should just stay home on election day. Go Harper Go!!


gee
said

Was Jack eating pistachios just before he got that picture taken? I think that Jack's wealth redistribution schemes promote mediocrity.


NS
said

NDP are spending... they see how weak the Lieberals are, and know they can steal some seats. We will again have a Conservative Minority, but with a NDP opposition... Is it really worth an election.... maybe.


Carl
said

When the Conservatives ran their last batch of ads criticizing Ignatieff for his insulting comments about Canada and our flag, the Liberals said it wasn't fair because political ads should onloy target an opponent's policies. Well, the new Conservative ad clearly targets Ignatieff's tax policy, so I guess the Liberals got exactly what they wished for. Still, I prefer the second Conservative ad released today, as it is completely positive.


jjaycee
said

Also @ Vanessa The more Tax a Corporation pays the less they have to put towards expantion and job creation. The biggest reason that companies choose to set up in another country is Tax. Even in places like China & Mexico where labour is cheap-the main reason is Tax. Companies also have to depend on consumers to buy so they do not mind paying a fair wage-they get some return on that whereas Tax is a deep black hole.We have lower taxes accross the board with this Conservative Government. Seniors pay less Tax, have more benefits and get to split Pensions for a further Tax savings. All families with children under 6 get $1200 towards any type of child care the THEY choose. They also can deduct up to $500 when they enrole their kids in any sport. The basic personal exemptions have rose from $9600 to $10562 for 2011, plus you get a credit for EACH child under 18 of $2101. Everyone who gets T4 income gets a credit for 2010 of $1051. Last year we got a credit of $9000 or $1350 actual cash in our pockets, for money spent to improve our homes-making them more liveable and raising the value also.Unreal how you whiners refuse to acknowledge the obvious.


Retired in Burlington
said

To all the party bashers, both Lib and Cons. There is no perfect party or leader for that matter. The trick is to pick the one that will do the best job, knowing full well that sooner or later they will eventually screw up and need to be replaced. As it now stands the Cons. and P.M. Harper are the best bet. The thought of having Mr. Ignatieff in charge scares the hell out me. I am not anti Liberal as such but I really think the party should consider a new leader before they become the third choice come election time.


Robert in Beaconsfield
said

Irrelevant ... Hmmm is that the new spin word of the day?I will tell you what is relevant and that is the 6 billion dollars that Corporations don't pay in taxes is 6 billion dollars that you and I have to cover whether its in terms of tax increases to Canadians or a further short fall of Governmental services. Add that 6 billion dollar short fall to the already existing debt and deficit and see how long it takes for this government to dip into your pockets to paint airplanes and buy fighters that don't meet the role we need them for, to pay for world stage excesses like the G8/G20 fiasco, all to feed the ego of one man, Steven Harper. I don't much care for Ignatieff, but I would rather have someone who worked in the States than a Prime Minister who wants to make Canada part of the States. No matter what... Harper has to go. We cannot afford him.


Harper has my support
said

I haven't seen the Prime Minister saying anything in the Tory ads.... and I haven't seen much that I don't agree with either. Say what you want the Prime Minister has done an adequate job and the last person I would want grabbing power is Ignatieff under a coalition which is a possibility if the Conservatives do not get a majority. I expect Canadians will do the right thing and deny the treasonous Bloc from having a say in how Canada is governed - it could be the worst thing to ever happen to this country's unity.


Anti Pye
said

The Conservatives are spending a fortune spreading their propaganda and twisted truths.Is it a goal of Canadians to have the lowest corporate taxes in the world? That is the goal of Conservatives. No other goal can be reached if lowest corporate taxes is the goal. I think Canadians would first want to have a goal of treating the elderly the best in the world or having the best healthcare system in the world or having the lowest poverty rate in the world. The race to the bottom and those that encourage others to race to the bottom need to be gone. Are governments elected to represent corporations or people. If you want corporations to be represented in Parliment continue to vote Conservative.


Graham
said

Funny how according to Iggy and Layton, it's ALWAYS the Conservatives that have to compromise and give in to their demands. I say Harper should ignore them all and let the chips fall where they may.


Matt
said

Here's the oppositions problem - They have tried to create a scandal out of everything the Conservatives have done: stimulus, Afghan detainees, Helena Geurgis, long form census, G20/G8 spending, ect. Now, when something come along that is at least a somewhat serious matter, the public yawns and thinks they are just crying wolf again.


job
said

How about we take away the party names and just look at things like this..."people we put in charge are not doing as good of a job..and their are many people(special interest) that ruin our chance(the people) from having a goverment that works for us..." Its funny but every so often someone comes along and tells the population that your goverment is screwing you over but yet..we continue to argue on stupidity..Maybe we can vote on that.. or i'm i a liberal because i just want whats best for people...or wait now i am communist...can i start the human being party?


Smackwater
said

Let's get rid of the Conservatives before they bankrupt the whole country-- both morally and financially.


Jay
said

Harper pushing for an election that will get him turfed from office. The last poll I read gave the neocons 32.4%, the left will come out in masses to vote this clown out. Neocons are more likely to own land lines most liberals I know only have a cell phone & pollsters don't call cell phone so the polls are no longer accurate. The neocons will get wiped off the map when Harper forces this election. I don't know even one person that would vote for the neocons. The liberals are far better fiscal managers, Harper is socially conservative & fiscally incompetent.


JayRoc
said

Ahhhh more classy attack ads from the Cons....Harper is a real gentleman. Have they nothing good to say about themselves that their only communications are attacks on others? As for lowering the GST, that was a useless tax cut that almost every economist in the country opposed. The Harper Cons....classing up Canadian politics one vitriolic rant at a time.


Lucky
said

@steady as she goes. Yes they have done a lot for the country like the biggest deficit in history, locking up parlaiment, partisan attack ads with our money, F35 jets, Doctoring documents, Higher user fees, High payroll deductions, G20 fiasco, Afghan detainee issue, Obstruction and secrecy, untended contarcts to fundraisers to their party just to name a few. Just maybe you one are of those(30%) that IS getting the benefit of this Govt. Are you a CEO?


Kc
said

I find the negative ads that the Tories run suggesting Iggy is a traitor because he lived in the USA and Uk quite positive. Surely a leader who lived in other major countries who happen to be among our closest allies and largest trading partners is more qualified than a leader like Harper who lived a insular life with little knowledge and contacts in other countries. I am quite shocked that the Liberal party have not turned this into something positive. I was not sure whether I would vote for Harper or Iggy but that ad really made my mind up, I vote for knowledge and experience, I will vote Liberal because the Tories frankly have nothing positive to say, those negative ads really put me off.


mark
said

Perhaps the NDP should have used real Canadian seniors in their ads....word on the street, the old folks were stock photos from Denmark...


Zanney
said

Stevie '007' Harper has confused his role as a PM with his previous job as a CSIS operative. Lies and cover ups are second nature. We need government based on "peace, order and good government", not lies, cover-ups, and treason.


marcus
said

Too bad Harper wouldn't talk about the real problems Canada is having like the debt instead of finding more ways to lock up some citizens and scare the rest with his holier than thou attitude he should look in the mirror think 2006 election steal I am getting quizzie about our democracy the way its going with him at the helm wake up Canada for peat sake


Michael
said

The Conservatives by necessity are friends of business just like the Liberals were friends of business and that is how it should be. Business is what makes our economy perform. Without a healthy active business sector you wouldn't have a job, a home and the necessities of life. Maintaining a healthy business environment is important for Canadians. That doesn't mean we forget the other components of our society but its important that our economy is working.


John Lemay
said

It's not a question of spend more it's a question to spend by setting priorities for Canadians, not for foreign companies getting tax cuts they can divert those dollars out of Canada. They can give corporate tax cuts to those that increase their payroll (other than bonuses) and use the other money to improve the lives of the less than wealthy Canadians. The conservatives need to represent the all the people not just those giving big donations.If dollars are spent for the benefit of all Canadians like there are supposed to be, There would be no need to increase taxes, with the exception of debt reduction.


Not a Mr. Pye Chart
said

At least Jack has shown some class with his ads whereas Harper comes out flying with vitriol and mudslinging once again. What is it with Harper,,,,is he actually AFRAID of Iggy and if not why the continual attacks. Tell us Harper what,,,,what is it you really intend to do. And by the way,,,Iggy NEVER said he would raise taxes but what he did say is he wouldn't give a further TAX REDUCTION to big business. There is a HUGE difference in the two meanings. I really hope Jack and Iggy take the high road and don't come back with personal attack ads like Harper's as everyone I talk to is getting really tired of them. Go with negative Harper and if Jack and Iggy DOTAKE the high road, I truly believe you will pay a price


Steady as she goes
said

@Vanessa: The Conservatives have done lots for Canadians. They have lowered our taxes, lowered the GST, they have invested in our country's infrastructure and created new jobs and kept our country moving away from a terrible recession. How you can say they have done nothing is only because you choose to ignore the obvious.


Vanessa
said

It's time for a new government!! The Conservatives don't care about the citizens, their first priority is the business sector. They have done nothing for Canadian citizens compared to the massive tax cuts, and credits for business!!!


Mike
said

I smell an election real soon!


viral venus
said

This is the real problem with the current political climate. None of the parties are sufficiently focused on anything beyond slagging each other in crappy, condescending attack ads or blowing their own horns in vanity commercials. Each party is willing to expend great energy on this partisan nonsense and almost nothing on actually solving problems or putting forward ideas for the future. I mute them all whenever they come on they are so tiresome and insulting to my intelligence.


Dan
said

I some it up like this: If you don't spend 2 billion dollars in the budget then we will make you pay 40 million on an ellection. Either way, the tax payers pay. So, given the choice, I would rather spend 40 million dollars then 2 billion, so I guess that means bring on the election. We are being played by the oppision. "Spend more" then "Why did you spend so much" go or stay we can not make them happy, so bite the bullet and ask the Canadian people, I am sure they will be clear in their answer!


Gordon (accountant)
said

If the NDP really wants to do something meaningful for seniors they would encourage the Conservative government to permit more unlocking of federal locked in retirement plans (RLIF) and allow seniors to transfer more of their own funds held in these plans into a regular RRSP so seniors hurt by the economic crash can use these assets to supplement their reduced income. Minister Flaherty made some concessions in a prior budget ago but it isn't enough.


Steve in Vancouver
said

Time for a Conservative majority and an NDP opposition. The Liberals are irrelevent. Lets get rid of them.


Andrea in Ottawa
said

Well we shall see because now that our economy grew by 0.6 , then why do we need a govt that shoves out these huge tax cuts to banks, oil compnaies and businesses? I think Canada should be looking at middle class families, and reducing their home heating bills, healthcare, education, environment, job creation, and child care.


John
said

Are the Liberals still on Vacation? Where are they? Obviously their goal is to become totally irrelevant in the next election


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