Premiers discussing thorny census issue: Selinger

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New Brunswick Premier Shawn Graham speaks at a press conference as Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger (left) and Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter listen in at the annual Premiers Conference in Winnipeg, Thursday, August 5, 2010. (John Woods / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Aug. 5 2010 4:03 PM ET

Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger said he believes in the value of the long-form census and wants to find a compromise with the federal goverment, which has cancelled the initiative.

Selinger, whose province is hosting the annual premiers' conference, spoke to CTV's Canada AM on Thursday morning.

While the primary issues on the premiers' agenda are water quality, job creation, education and health spending, premiers have also been informally discussing the thorny census issue.

"Some premiers feel very strongly the long-form census provides essential information for provincial health services, education and labour market opportunities. Manitoba is one that also supports that position," Selinger said.

"Others want to leave it to the federal government to decide on the best way to collect that information."

Informal discussions will continue among the provincial leaders, and it's possible that a common position may emerge on the issue, he said.

It might be possible, for example, for the premiers to agree that the long-form census should remain in place, but with some changes to its implementation. For example, the census might be more palatable if potential jail terms were no longer a threat for those who don't participate.

"We'll identify whether there is any practical basis on which we can form a consensus," he said.

The federal government announced it was cancelling the mandatory long-form census and replacing it with a voluntary option, saying the census was intrusive and Canadians shouldn't be forced to participate.

Statisticians, academics and the opposition have widely opposed the decision, and the government eventually signalled it was open to discussing the issue.

Advocates for the census, including the former head of Statistics Canada, say it is an invaluable source of information for policy makers, and changing the system effectively makes all previously-collected data redundant.

Comments are now closed for this story

M.M.B. Ont
said

Why is it that anything and everything the Conservatives suggest becomes a mountain over of a molehole with so many people? All these years 20% of ALL Canadians received the long form census. Now 20% of Canada's population is a small number, therefore if this long form census is so viatl and important for statistics, then why do 80% or 90% not get the long form? Would that not provide more information that is suddenly so vital? Personally, I don't see how filling out the long form and telling how many bathrooms and bedrooms I have in my home helps Stats Canada in any way. And to have to answer these ridiculous questions under threat of jail is ridiculous. Make the census voluntary !

Cam
said

I think Mr Harper is correct in saying Canada's economic policy leading the world. I can't be the only Canadian to remind him that the policies he's touting are the left over policies of the previous Liberal regime. Thank you Mr Chretien and thank you Mr Martin for ensuring that our ship of state would remain afloat even under the harshest conditions(economic meltdown 2008) We have alot to be proud of but Mr Harper has a lot to be thankful for as well. It's good fiscal management that has kept us where we are and where headed. So thank you Liberals for having vision even if the current government has none. I'm still waiting for Mr Flaherty to sell off valuable Canadian assets to balance the budget (hiway 407 anyone) just remember once you've sold a revenue generator you can't take it back(AECL). Good management needs a clear vision...the conservatives clearly need their vision checked shall I call the Optometrist. Clearly the government of the day is seeing things "unreported crime stats" come on you can do better than this.

arnie williamson
said

As long as the information is used soley for government planning and programs I have no problem with the long form. My objection to forcing people to complete the long form is that the information once collected is sold. I have a real issue with people being forced to provide information which is used to compile statisical data for sale. No one should be threatened with jail for failing to provide this information. I personally refuse to and will always refuse to be forced to provide this information. Since I learned how the data is used I have never and never will complete this form.

MARG MM
said

Jim, since this is a minority Government, the opposition has had many opportunities to "bring them down" and call an election. They have not, and won't until they have the money and the poll numbers to do so. Meanwhile, all they do is whine and complain about everything that the Conservatives do, and still vote along with them, thus keeping them in power. Is this the party that you would like to see in charge?The one that says one thing and does another.Thanks for your input, but I'll stick with what we have until there is a better option.

Jake
said

if the mandatory long form is so valuable for government and business policy decisions, so why not make all the census forms the long form and mandatory. That way, we will have 100% data and therefore the information will be far more reliable and valuable. We will build more jails so that those who refuse to fill the form will have jails to go to.

Intrelligent Liberal
said

If Alberta and other mostly western families do not admit on the mandatory census that they discuss racist views, probably in only one official language, then they should be thrown in JAIL, that is why the census needs to be MANDATORY. read my lips FILL IT OUT OR JAIL TIME. Putting CON supporters in jail where they belong with all the other minority groups means they won't be ale to vote and Harper can go back west where he belongs.

Don
said

can't most of the census information be gathered from federal and provincial tax forms?what a waste of time and discussion.

Jim
said

It's pretty straight forward Marge. Harper - or Darth Sweater Vest as some have taken to call him - IS a dictator because he was NEVER given a mandate by the populace, yet he governs as though he was. He is more comfortable with threats, intimidation, and the elimination of information and discussion than he is with the cooperative nature DEMANDED of a minority government. In every poll over the last five years, his right-wing conservative views are always at the bottom of the pile, yet because the left is fratured in to three parties he gets the PM's office. On any given day 55% of this country is opposed to his viewpoints, and still he shoves them down our throats! If that doesn't make him a dicator, I don't know the definition.

Doug # BC
said

I'm more curious about why they are discussing the issue than about who supports what,and why the do.Provincial parties rarely go out of their way to speak clearly about any national issue.I now in BC,for example,our Liberal government supports many Conservative policies,but rarely says so. Why?? Because if the federal Liberals win an election,BC would be cut off from almost any federal funding or even discussions of a national nature. Liberals only want to hear from people who agree with them. The rest don't count one iota. The BC branch of the NDP is a joke and a puppet to Taliban Jack. The other parties in BC have few policies to discuss because they can't win an election. Congratulations to "Rob". Yo made the exact point Harper was making. Liberals claim no one goes to jail,a nd no one pays fines for not filling out the long form. But still,they say it must remain mandatory.

David - Ottawa
said

For Harper, Ideology always trumps logic and rational thought.Always has and always will.He is a very dangerous person to have as leader of our country.

Peter in MB
said

@Danny dinosaur. As long as the questions on the form Are reasonable!!! relevant!!! And optional!!! And I have the Right to choose, then I will make a responsible choice. Until that time my name is Master Harry Ballzak my sin number is 123-456-789 and my religion is Jedi knight. According to census and stats can There are over 21,000 of us in Canada. May the force be with you Danny dinosaur.

bob33
said

Int Lib is so correct. Having the leaders discuss the economy - what's that all about? They should obviously be devoting all their time to trying to measure racism in Alberta homes. In fact, we should have a new department for that with at least a $9B annual budget.

Edb(Hamilton)
said

The same Privacy Act the Liberal left rally around when protecting the identities and whereabouts of convicted pedophiles and rapists once released, somehow is not applicable should the rest of us choose to guard our own privacy. Any legal interpretation of the following with relation to the census would be appreciated.Privacy Act...4. No personal information shall be collected by a government institution unless it relates directly to an operating program or activity of the institution. 1980-81-82-83, c. 111, Sch. II "4". 5. (1) A government institution shall, wherever possible, collect personal information that is intended to be used for an administrative purpose directly from the individual to whom it relates except where the individual authorizes otherwise or where personal information may be disclosed to the institution under subsection 8(2). (2) A government institution shall inform any individual from whom the institution collects personal information about the individual of the purpose for which the information is being collected.

Steve
said

Makes a lot of sense to scrap the long form census & replace it with one that costs more & gives us useless statistics. (eyes rolling in head) We need an election new polls show less than 30 % of Canadians support this dictator. Call an election now, while were still allowed to vote.

MARG MM
said

It is good to see that at least a few people understand that removing the threat of jail time does in effect make the census voluntary. It seems that the so-called "more intelligent Liberals" aren't able to fathom that. I guess that the Conservative had more faith in the fact that people could actually get what the objective was. In retrospect, maybe they just should have said that they were removing the threat of jail time, and no one would need to feel threatened if they chose not to fill out the mandatory long form. That would cause some not to fill out the form, which in effect makes it voluntary. It is really not that difficult to understand. Of course the opposition are (as usual) making a "mountain out of a mole hill", and the media (as usual) are feeding the frenzy. Once again, the long form is NOT being eliminated, there will just be a choice as to whether you fill it out or not, and judging by the people that want to keep it "mandatory, there should be more than enough volunteers to fill it in. To those constantly calling PM Harper a dictator: What could be more dictatorial than the threat of jail time if you don't fill in a mandatory census form, and to those saying that no one has served jail time, that doesn't mean that the threat is still not there.

Gord
said

It's just a slow news summer and the media needs to feed their 24 hour news cycle. Long form census forms are necessary for the government to do long term service planning. Its not intended to be intrusive or collected for malicious purposes.

Mike in ON
said

I'm torn on this issue. While I'm definitely not in favour of a 'nanny state,' where the government regulates every aspect of your life, and has their nose deep in your business, I can definitely see the benefits of having StatsCan collect this info. A family member of mine started a business a few years ago. She spent months doing market research, and finding statistics that proved that her business plan was viable. I don't know that she would be as successful as she is today without that information, most of which was collected via census.

Danny Dinosaur
said

How about this for wording Peter in mb? If you want to live in Canada, you must assist the government and public agencies in developing intelligent programs, by answering a long form census every 5 years. That sounds like a choice to me - maybe even a responsible choice.

Citizen
said

The Fed's want to make this form voluntary, which I agree with. But rather than threatening people with jail for not doing it, why not offer incentives. At census time if you do submit it, you get a small tax break or something. This would insure it is filled out, while still making it a choice but providing motivation for people to actually do it.

Wendy
said

Adopting a " wait & see " attitude to the resultsof Harper's voluntary census is about as dumb asyou can get. Once it happens it will have buggeredup any chance at accurate numbers for years. I would have serious doubts about my premierif he adopted this position. It is partisan, dumb,and against my province & country's best interests.

Catwoman 38
said

Good the issues are now being addressed. The more and more people speak up , the better.

Bill in BC
said

The purpose of a census is to provide basic population demographic information, not to serve as a marketing tool or for social engineering. Fix the problems by getting rid of the long form. End of discussion.

DaveB
said

@ "intellegent liberal" "what intelligent Canadians like me and Herm care about is having a MANDATORY census form because that is best way to keep track of racism in Alberta homes".Could you explain how this would works exactly? Can you point us to any such statistics? It might be time to re-visit your screen name.

Mel Blake
said

There is nothing to stop provinces that want more detailed information on their population from doing it themselves. They could do it when you apply for your drivers license or move into the province or have it transferred from somewhere else. It could also be done as part of the provincial tax form that you have to file every year. It would not give the blanket coverage of a census, but if it is really for employment purposes and not for political targeting of various "communities", then it would be enough since most people who work either have a drivers license or have to file a tax form. So there's really no reason for the controversy.

peter in MB
said

If you want to fly you have to have your picture taken. if you want to coach little league you need a criminal record check. Anyone who wants works with kids must have a criminal record check done and you can thank the school divisions who are left wing socialist for that one. But the key WORD here is if you �WANT to� I.E. (Freedom of choice) if you don�t want to fill out census and give details of you privet life to the Government you get criminally charged. The Conservatives only want to give you and me the right to choose. Please can anyone tell me what is so wrong with that? Anyone who does not support your right to choose most likely thinks that you cant think for yourself and should not have any rights at all. They are the true Dictators.

Mead
said

Does Statistics Canada purposely hire stalkers? Have no doubt - their census takers are stalkers, by legal definition. Once they have your name, they will hunt you down and stalk you until you comply. If you were ever stalked by Stats-Can, you will know.Stats-Can is unconstitutional and one would think they are breaking the law by the way they behave.

Raj
said

The media seem enthralled with this census nonsense, I dont fill out the long form, never will never wanted to.if I do answer, my answers are not always truthful. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

James T
said

Control the information, and you control the public's perception of any situation. Darth Sweater Vest knows this well, hence his feverish desire to degrade and eliminate as much information as possible. The control the Sith seek can not be accomplished in the face of a well-educated and informed public.

John from Saskatoon
said

I would bet that the average citizen could care less about this long form census. Most of the stuff on it has no value except to the special interest groups who try to suck money out of the taxpayers pockets. I'm getting tired of people who oppose everything the government does for the sake of opposing it. Even as a solid Conservative supporter I did find value in things the Libs did as well as the NDP in my province. Think about the actual issues before complaining.

Linda
said

If Harper and his minions are so positive that the elimination of the mandatory long form census is in the best interest of the people, let's see him put our money where his mouth is. Let's keep the status quo for the next census, and hold a referendum on the subject with an upcoming federal election.

Danny Dinosaur
said

This is the government that wants to protect our privacy, but under their rules, if I want to fly, I need to get my picture taken with a camera that removes my clothes. If I want to coach little league and I share a birthday with a criminal, I have to submit my finger prints. This is a government that tells us all stories to support their ideological lust for control. This summer has been a long list of moves that should be getting Canadians attention. Hopefully the press will be brave enough to cover the stories. There is no need for bias reporting, just a need for people to hear factual information. And anyone who believes that the airport photo booths are going to stop terrorists, you should leave the room. You are wasting everyone's time.

Rob W
said

Dollars to donuts, the Tories have put this out there to tie up the media and their opponents. (A bit like the national anthem fiasco). This is something they can flip flop on without too much damage, keeps them in the media driver seat and investigative press away from other stuff.

peter in MB
said

Premier Greg Selinger you and your party just lost my vote. I voted for Gary Doer because he was more of a Centralist, not a left wing communist.

Bill from Winnipeg
said

In the past, the government FORCED the population to answer questionsby institutung the THREAT OF JAIL if you didn't comply. If the con's tried to implement ANYTHING like that now, with those kinds of penalties they would be thrown out of office in a heartbeat. Instead they are REMOVING any penalties for NOT COMPLETING THE FORM. THE FORM IS STILL BEING SENT OUT. THE FORM IS STILL BEING SENT OUT. They are not doing away with it. And the worst of it was, that the government was SELLING THE INFORMATION THAT FORCED US TO PROVIDE. Now those that want it will have to do their own surveys. Of all the changes made I woudl have thought this one would have been most widely accepted and I think it actually is. Only those self interested survey users are complaining. I suspect the vast majority of the rest of us applaud this change.

Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said

Why are the new reformewd conservatives so hell bent on changing the census for anyway? Before Maxime Bernier brought this up there were no complaints, no one was in jail over this. For some reason they have to keep the census front and center stage. If we keep questioning the census, we wouldn't have time to question the 16 billion to be spent on new fighter jets, or anything else that is important.

Intelligent Conservative
said

This government doesn't want Canadians to know the facts. Harper's government has all the makings of a fascist dictator & Canadians are waking up to the fact, today's poll shows the cons tied with the liberals, it's good to see the cons under 30%.

Slewhigh yendick
said

Yeah, right,, fines and JAIL for refusing to put your papers in order !! In a free and democratic nation !! What a draconian society,, and we are proud to be a free people,,, RUBBISH!!! Kanada, what a kountry.....

allan
said

The media driven Liberals are trying to make points on the census nonsense, but premiers have more important things to worry about, like the economy stupid! I hope they dont waste time on such trivia as the census

Henry Wysmulek
said

Big surprise the ndp support sticking their noses into every aspect of peoples lives!Dictator wannabes!

jim_bryson@telus.net
said

If even the premiers can't get it right, how can the general public. The government is not "scrapping" the long form census. They are removing the mandatory portion - which is what everyone has already been saying is the compromise position. To compensate for the change in the "mandatory" part, they are increasing the number of surveys being sent out to adjust for the level of confidence in the resulting data. It's really no different than the way that the media likes to report "popularity" polls conducted with a sample size of 900 people for a population of 30 million. The more people you can ask, the greater the confidence in the poll results - it doesn't mean the poll is invalid because you only asked a small sample. In the end, it's just information that you can believe or not. If your only source of information for making a decision is a single census, then I think your decisions are going to be terribly skewed, just as much as if you used no data at all.

Rob
said

" For example, the census might be more palatable if potential jail terms were no longer a threat for those who don't participate."So, I hope fines are still on the table. Otherwise, without a threat of jail or fines, the census will be voluntary, just like the Conservatives are suggesting.

Intelligent Liberal
said

I agree with Wayne in Herm, Harper and the CONS would like the premiers to talk about other things like the "economy" but what intelligent Canadians like me and Herm care about is having a MANDATORY census form because that is best way to keep track of racism in Alberta homes.

Beverley Smith
said

What is being underplayed is not just if this will be mandatory or voluntary but the fact that either version will from now on apparently erase vital questions about unpaid work. Carol Lees, Saskatoon farm wife raised a public storm in the 1990s when she was told on that census that if she had been a housewife all her life, she should write down that she 'never worked'. It was her anger and lobbying that led to a national Work is Work Conference, and Stats Canada agreeing to survey unpaid caregiving and volunteer activities as work on its long form. SInce then women and men who do such labor have been able to have some validation, some numbers to show the input they have on the economy. Stats Canada now estimates that unpaid labor is one third of the GDP. To erase the questions on it will put it back under the rug, take it for granted and set back the women's rights movement at least 20 years.

Wayne in HRM
said

"Others want to leave it to the federal government to decide on the best way to collect that info." I wonder which premiers agree with the Feds..hmm betcha the Cons are the ones. Funny thing is that the Federal Cons want a devolution of power to the provinces and their ideological counter parts in the provinces want devolution back to the Feds.

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