Hillier: No proof Afghan governor tortured prisoners

Canada's top soldier says an Afghan governor accused of personally torturing prisoners has done some "phenomenal work" and that allegations against him have yet to be proven as fact.

The Globe and Mail reported Friday that Ottawa received reports last spring that Kandahar Governor Asadullah Khalid allegedly ran secret prison cells and even personally beat and electro-shocked at least one detainee.

The report also said the Harper government blacked out references to the allegations in documents, citing security concerns.

Hillier said that so far there's no proof that the governor was involved in torture.

"Allegations are just that -- allegations obviously," Hillier told reporters.

"Governor Asadullah has been doing some phenomenal work in Kandahar province ... Obviously we have worked with him because he is the governor there, and we have seen some incredible changes in the province and if there's an issue of any kind of impropriety whatsoever, that's an issue for the Afghanistan government."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has not commented on the allegations. During Friday's question period, Defence Minister Peter MacKay accused the Liberal opposition of "histrionics and hyperbole" when they demanded to know if the government investigated the allegations against the governor.

The Tories did not say why they kept the allegations of the governor's complicity and participation in torture a secret.

Liberal MP Denis Coderre, who visited Afghanistan last year, said the Conservative government has consistently misled the Canadian public about torture allegations in the country.

"It's been a year since the opposition started asking questions (about torture) and it's cover-up, cover-up, cover-up," Coderre told CTV Newsnet's Mike Duffy Live on Friday.

"I think that Canada has a stain on its own international reputation because of the way the government is acting right now."

Laurie Hawn, parliamentary secretary to the Minister of National Defence, said the issue is not a Canadian matter.

"That is a matter for the government of Afghanistan. It's not a matter for the Canadians on the ground," he said.

Hawn then accused the opposition of undermining the safety of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan.

Retired Colonel Alain Pellerin, the executive director of the Conference of Defence Associations, an advocacy group for the military, told CTV Newsnet that there have been several accusations against Governor Khalid, but there was not "much foundation" to the allegations.

"You have to remember that you're dealing with a traumatized country," he said.

"We have to realize that it is a very slow process. There was no rule of law until we arrived in Kandahar province."

Hillier on Kandahar

Hillier also commented Friday on Canada's role in Kandahar. He said that Canadian soldiers cannot stay in the province and be expected to avoid combat.

Hillier said there was no possibility that Canadian troops could serve in that part of Afghanistan on a strictly humanitarian or reconstruction basis.

"Certainly if you're in Kandahar you're going to be in combat operations,'' Hillier told reporters after delivering a speech at an Arctic conference.

"If you're there, you're going to be in the middle of a firefight some way or another.''

A recent report by a panel headed by former Liberal cabinet minister John Manley recommends that Canada continue its combat role following the scheduled February 2009 exit date.

However, the panel said the extension should only occur if other NATO countries contribute 1,000 extra troops.

Harper has backed the general findings of the report -- including demands for more equipment and combat aid.

But the Liberals have rejected the report and have said they would only leave Canadian troops in Kandahar in a non-combat role after the exit date.

Hillier dismissed the idea, saying the Afghan army was not ready to operate on its own.

"One of the (Afghan) battalions is very good; the other one is sort of relatively good and the other one is just getting into a training cycle,'' he said.

"The progress has been phenomenal but it's going to take a while.''

Hillier said the challenge is convincing political leaders to provide the necessary level of troops.

He wants troops stationed in other regions to be sent into the south.

"That's where the need is right now and the need is not in the north or the west or the northeast. The need is in the south or the east.''

Hillier told reporters he will accept any decision in Afghanistan as long as it honours the Canadians who have died taking part in the mission.

He also said his relationship with Harper was "solid and good."

Comments are now closed for this story

I was there..
said

I served in Afghanistan, in Kabul mind you, and we handed out hundreds of winter boots to children whose feet were turning black from frostbite during the winter there. I cried when we ran out and we had nothing more to give. These folks have nothing and we helped them the best as we could. The loudest cries for leaving Afghanistan is from folks who have never been there, and who don't know what real poverty and suffering is like. I am looking forward to going back. I'm a pacifist by nature, but there are fights is this world worth fighting and this is one of them. The people of Afghanistan deserve a chance at peace and unfortunatly, weapons and warriors are the only way. Canadians have always in our history...you know the history that schools don't teach anymore, stood up for people that couldn't stand up for themselves.
Nuff said

michael
said

There is a voice for Afghan forces, their progress, their mission, their purpose. The same voice speaks for Canadian soldiers, their mission, their progress and everything but the truth about allies they don't trust. Given the history of this region, how can there be any question the principle proponents of this campaign started a fight they never intended to or could win. Step back, anticipate retaliation, success, we're in! Who are the Mujahideen, the northern alliance? Are there any nations on earth that these people do not consider enemies. What...poppies, cultures, guns? Mouth pieces love danger...they just don't want to get any on them.

Al
said

Denis Coderre is a Liberal and hasn't said anything intelligent yet. They are acting as if they have control over another sovereign country. After seeing what they've done to this country maybe we should send them over to advise the Afgan government. It can only get worse.

Combat for what, exactly?
said

To quote a post above:

"Beats me why we support a regime that sentences a journalist to death for describing the reality of the plight of women under the sham regime. Why isn't the PM denouncing the Afghan government"

To the retired RCAF who posted this, let me say thanks very much for voicing an opinion from Canadian military experience that goes against all these angry soldiers and over-zealous military family members out here with this arrogant sense of entitlement who are trying to label everyone who disagrees with the mission as being "non-troop supporters".

This type of headgame is totally unfair! The "support the troops" rhetoric has gone too far and become a catch-all response designed to stifle rational discussion of the issue. Knock it off!!

We need more discussion and input from people in the military and retired from the military who see the blatant hypocrisy of this mission. I support the troops who speak out and show their viewpoint as individuals! Keep it coming!

All you "Support the Troops" war enabling mantra-chanters who are trying to stifle our right to discuss the details of this mission freely as per our Charter of Rights, remember this: No right minded Canadian wants to see Canadian soldiers die. That is a given!

Joe
said

Where is the rest of NATO? We've done our share of the heavy lifting and paid for it with the blood of our young soldiers. We are on an extension now. Any one who thinks we haven't done our share and wants more is a Republican butt kisser, or has a different agenda for insisting on more of OUR soldiers dying.

Martin Corel
said

I'ts amusing how these war cheer leaders lap up the hysteria of stopping the evil boogyman. Most of them couldn't point out Afghanistan on a map.

Time to close the book on this military misadventure.

Frank Calesso
said

The LIBERAL government of the day sent Canadian troops into Afghanistan on a combat mission. Now they are totally against this same mission. Has anybody thought of what will happen if Canadian troops are withdrawn? The Taliban will take over the country. Women & girls will not be educated, they will be treated as objects. Have you considered what will happen if Canada assumes a training role? The Taliban will not want a robust military to oppose when they take over the country. Will our soldiers be unarmed & unequipped to repulse any attack? Canada must stay the course otherwise Afghanistan will become a training ground & supporter of terrorism once again.

Dave in Courtenay
said

Afghanistan, like most of the sad nation-states in Africa, is a collection of tribes whose people have never known the concept of a nation as we understand it. The Afghan "nation" is a foreign imposition, and we are attempting the daunting task of nation-building during chaos. We are facing the modern reality that a few thousand motivated and financed/equipped individuals can wreak havoc, especially in a society that has never known organization and peace. It is so much faster to train an uneducated person to shoot a rifle or plant an IED than to build a house. Shooting someone to take their house is also so much faster and easier than building one. That's they way they've alway done it, but with less effective weapons. Those of our military who have worked in Africa's tribal-based cultures see the identical misery and brutality when archaic traditions meet modern power enhancing resouces. It is foolish to think tribal leaders are interested in sharing or diluting their powers, or even restricting their power growth, through negotiations. Afghan is just one of many places in desperate need of strong-handed help. One at a time or none at all thank you.

kathy
said

I am forty five years of age, and have had a close relationship with my father who is 82 years of age and is a repected retired Major of the Canadian Air Force. He has been able to instill peace within his posts, knowing he had the support of his Canadian friends and family. If he was given the the sad sorrys of I do not care what happens to the rest of the world by news media and politics he would not have been able to do his job.

Allan Eizinas
said

Hillier is suffering major delusions of grandeur. His job is to do what the elected government of the people tells him to do.

His job is certainly not to comment on issues that govern national policy and process.

This loose cannon has to go � soon!!

Karl White
said

If we are pulling out in Feb. 2009 then we should give an extra push before we leave we should give a 6 month back up with ourCanadian Special Operations Regiment, as the Air Forse ego is in the way of our obtaining Chnooks. The experence is worth a million for our guys. Well Done.

Mike Stone
said

We don't mind when the Bush Administration tortures people that they have labeled "enemy combatants" (waterboarding, etc), so why should we care when the government of Afghanistan does it?

Just define whatever this governor did as not torture, and BINGO, he didn't torture anyone! He merely used enhanced interrogation techniques, like pulling teeth and beating people with a lead pipe. He didn't torture anyone!

My Support to You
said

Tom, Mark and the others who have served, are about to serve and will serve again in Afghanistan, you have my support. I believe you are doing the right thing for the right reasons. Most postings would agree. The wackos stand out far afield from the majority. Be safe.

Edward
said

Today, when you go to the Netherlands and mention you are Canadian you are applauded for the efforts our country made 60 years ago. Canada has been a vital force in the world when we were called upon. Thank goodness we did not have the Dion's and Layton's in charge back then. "When the going get a bit tougher spin the story to get votes from ignorant people..."

The only thing that will fail us is if we get no support from other NATO forces. Although I support our troops and the war, I also believe the Manley report has it right. If NATO countries are not going to step up their efforts, then we cannot carry the load by ourselves. I see Harper is already networking with other countries for increased participation, however, Germany has just announced that they will not send troops to the south or increase their support in Afghanistan.

Carl G in Oromocto
said

I don't and never have supported this mission. 24 years in the armed forces weren't wasted on me. It's not winnable no matter how the General spins the message

Claude
said

The man is a hero. Plain and simple.

Travis Patmore
said

The Prime Minister and Peter MacKay need to continue the pressure on the other Nato allies. The other Nato members especially those from Europe of all countries shouldn't forget that freedom is never free. No one wants to lose people. We all have to do our part for the greater good.

Brian
said

As is clearly shown most Canadians are behind this mission and support the Afghan people's right to freedom, democracy and dignity.
.

As many have said it will take a long time for them to adapt back from the abyss they were forced into.
.

With regards to rotating the troops you need to understand Afghans take a long time to loosen up and trust outsiders. They are more afraid of what happens when the outsiders leave and so will change very causiously.
.
This will be a long process that can get better by the day with the proper support. Canada is a great country to lead that support.

Craig
said

Don: Why don't you turn the tables? I don't complain and wonder if there are paid Dion sycophants blogging this site and clogging it up with Liberal rhetoric.

So put on your tinfoil hat and knock it off with the anti-Harper conspiracy propaganda.

Chris from Calgary-An ex=-Patricia
said

FreakAlert... I wish you would stop posting your igonrance for the masses... Our combat arms soldiers serve 7 month tours and the admin/support elements may serve up to 9 if they choose... I drank with General Hillier at the Officers Mess in Edmonton, during one of our Drumline shows, and I can tell you this much... He asked me, as an Infantry Corporal, what would have to change to make the Canadian people believe we can do our job in Afghanistan and I told him that he didn't have to change anything because we know how "bad" we are. General Hillier loves his troops and he is probably saddened by the fact that NATO has let us down. So please, FreakAlert, stop it with your b.s.

Capt. E.sS. RCAF (retd)
said

Beats me why we support a regime that sentences a journalist to death for describing the reality of the plight of women under the sham regime. Why isn't the PM denouncing the Afghan government

Why are our soldiers being killed to protect these women repressing thugs?

freedom lover
said

It's over.

Get over it.

Stop wasting lives.

And there is no "secret information" justifying the Afghanistan invasion.

It's plain to see it's about the geopolitical maneuvering of the corrupt US imperialist regime and their NATO flunkies.

If Taliban are so bad, why did Colin Powell deliver $47 million to them in May 2001?

fixhist - Toronto
said

Like any issue which often gets debated, than reasoning and discussions tend to take more weight, than the actual issue at hand.
Reading through the 911 commission report, it is clear that, US was aspiring to get in Afghanistan well before Sept.2001.

Originally they had planned to get in for pinning down Al qaida, don't forget Al qaida agents were the same people who were CIA data base as fighters against USSR.

I'm not trying to defend Taliban, but dude had 90% Afghanistan under control and even for westerners it was safe to travel end-to-end in Afghanistan.

Remember two US school teachers were reprimanded of preaching, were captive for few days but released.
What happened to 23 South Korean preachers under Karzai regime?

Story of journalism student getting death sentence from Afghan senate is fresh, needless to say 6-Years of carpet bombing and combat is not enough to make people to become forward thinkers.
If bombing and combats can change the local cultures,traditions and religion,than for sure go ahead with mission.
Rest assure ground realities, ideology or winning hearts and minds is not going to happen for another 50 Years of occupying forces.

Pakhtoons presently away from Kabul and Kandhar due to aggression by Northern Alliance (non-pakhtoon) will keep striking back to return.

Ethnic & Sectarian violence has the same ingredients as in Iraq.

Taliban are mostly Pakhtoon, insurgency by Pakhtoons or struggle to get hold of their tribal lands will always be blamed as Taliban attack. Or one tribe will snitch on other to be terrorist,there goes another sortie for bombing terrorist hideout,finding ammu in rubbles afterwards is more likely than not.

If Canada planned developing roads, hospitals & schools now,these will go to credit of imposed Karzai govt,these will not be welcome by Pashtoon in their tribal area and will go to waste.

Added disadvantage is pashtoons are divided in thousands of tribes and have dual nationality of Pakistan and Afghanistan, majority is poor but will fight tooth to nail to save their children, women and goats :)
Expect volley of AK47, vehicle hit by IED or Land mine if you happen to pass by withing 200 Yards of a nomads kitchen.

So, the actual issue at hand is, is the little brother party in big brothers war or not.

Picking WAR or NOT is not hard, being little one makes kinda make it complex.

Don
said

This must be said to Dan and to IZ:

Why is it because people support Mr. Harper, we must be paid get a grip. Mr. Layton should be tried for treason for suggesting we negotiate with terrorists! If it were up to him he would have them living in Canada and be financially supported by MY tax dollars! Here's a good idea; Mr. Layton can go over there on his own dime, set up a meeting with these terroists and have the discussion. How far will he get? Do you think he has the brass to do that, I don't think so. IZ, you DEMAND a referendum on this issue? Then I DEMAND to have them on gay marriage, gun control, child support laws, jaywalking and spitting in public. Am I going to get my way... uh,no. But unlike you I do have faith in our Conservative government, and I hope they lead this country for many years to come. Just remember who put our troops there.

PBW
said

All of this raging and storming by armchair warriors is very reminiscent of the 60's and 70's, when such behaviour in the press and among "intellectuals" led to micromanagement of troops in Vietnam by deskbound politicians thousands of miles away, people who had no idea of the effect they were having, only that their re-election was at stake. Effectively, those troops were not permitted to win that war.

I see the same thing happening here in Canada, though so far we have not made it impossible for our troops to achieve the goals they were set. If we are to be there, helping that country develop and become an effective nation, not a failed one, let's support both troops and mission, regardless of politics. The intital decision to go there was made by a Liberal government; the decision to stay there by a Conservative government. Neither the NDP nor the Bloc will ever form a national government, so they should accept what is and campaign to make it easier for our troops to fulfill the mission, not do everything in their power to make that mission impossible.

Half a century ago, this country worked as one to ensure the end of the Nazis and bring democracy back to central Europe. The latter was only accomlished forty-odd years after the end of active fighting to achieve the first goal. It will probably take as long for democracy get the tenacious grip in Afghanistan that it needs to be successful.

As we stood against Nazism and the other totalitarian menace, so we must do now, against fundamentalist medievalism and a concept of gender equality that makes some of Hitler's policies quite humane.

David Diver
said

Want to win the war? Want to know just exactly what Canadians think? Want to know whether our politicians are made of stern stuff and whether Harper, MacKay and others of that ilk believe the twaddle they peddle on Afghanistan? Introduce mandatory call-up for all young men who will then be trained and used on a rotary basis for service in the Canadian Forces. And then watch the howls from the hypocrites who are so keen to help Afghanistan get freedom and democracy....

MOE
said

Dan....you need a hug.

IZ...you need one too.

All other Canadians, thanks for using your right to free speech on this site. The same right our soldiers are trying to give folks from another country.

Jake
said

To all those who feel obligated to tell me to support the troops. I am in support them, in their best interests, and my primary interest is to see them all come home, ALIVE!!! It�s funny that my saying that I don�t agree with why they�re dying makes me unsupportive. Nonsense!!! The logic being portrayed by the sit at home advocates to war is astonishingly out to lunch.

Brian
said

It's about time the opposition parties quit bandering about the alledged torture in Afghanistan. There is a huge difference between allegations and facts. Stephenane Dion learned that today when he responded to a threat of lawsuit against him by Dimitri Soudas involving a Montreal real estate deal. It's ok to ask questions about a situation but to continually accuse someone without the fact is the "impurest" or worst form of political opportunism. Let's have some more threats of lawsuits and may that will help clean up the political mudslinging, both inside and outside parliament, and even keep the media under more scrutiny.

Mark
said

I have served in Afghanistan as an infanteer. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do reconstruction and development work in khandahar without strong offensive actions against insurgents conducted concurrently. If you allow the enemy freedom of action and "avoid" conflict, as Mr. Dion suggests, then the Taliban will hit you when their forces are massed and when it suits them. Follow this policy and then you'll see big numbers of dead Canadians. Tell us to stay or tell us to go, but don't tell us how to do it. As a soldier its our job to know. You wouldn't go to a dentist for a broken arm would you?

IZ
said

I demand a referendum on the continuation of Canada's mission in Afghanistan.

Justin
said

R/H: Thanks for the link. I know now what I have to do. Buy the domain "whatactuallyhappened.com" and put in big bold letters "ITS NOT ABOUT OIL". Because if its on the internet, its obviously true. Unocal no longer exists and the Americans haven't even been involved in the TAP proposal for over 8 years.

And I guess you just ignore TAP is a natural gas pipeline!

Iami Iamme
said

The �alarm bells� have always been ringing, even since the Russians had their go at Afghanistan, but no one wanted to take notice then�We just keep hitting the snooze button�The US (CIA) back then, funded the �Taliban� Afghan fighters, as a means to drag out the war until the Russians were both beaten and virtually bankrupt. This was the strategy implemented by the United States to put an end to Russia�s �super power� status, which the US now proudly advertises and advocates as their own. The reasons the Russians were there then, are still the same as to why the US and Canada, along with some NATO help, are there now. It had nothing to do with �poppies� or improving the infrastructure, or for that matter the every day life style of the local peoples. It was all about securing a route for the flow of OIL�A Trans Afghan pipeline.
What�Are we to be more convinced now, because of a third, rather than the first or second, or any previous so-called reports, to support and justify the continued �mission� (war) get used to it. Is this what its going to take to do the trick, as far as public sentiment goes anyway, toward accepting another War or �counter insurgency� the new military catch phrase for blood shed? It�s not at all surprising that reports keep coming out now, as simply another means of trying to justify extending the �mission� in Afghanistan. There are huge monetary profits for many of the people involved in this, and other wars. So let�s not forget Vietnam, and the big fight against �communism� which was the catch phrase back then for the French and US governments, and their military Chiefs and Generals�Horrible�Why should we hear about body bags and deaths...I mean it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? Barbara Bush�Spouse of George H. W. Bush�The hardest thing for me in Vietnam wasn't seeing the wounded and dead�It was watching the big transport jets come in, bringing loads of fresh new boys for the war! Johnny Cash�1932-2003� Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich-Sir Peter Ustinov�1921-2004

MCpl
said

I am totally appalled when I hear Canadians say we should pull out of Afghanistan. Why do they think we should do this? Is it because it has become ugly? War is ugly. We could have pulled out of Holland in WW2 and said let them fight it on there own. We could have pulled out of France or Italy and said the same thing. We did not, when you go to Holland today andyou have that little maple flag on your pack and people greet you with a smile it's not because of your sandals and great looks. The people of Europe greet us as they do because of what our Grandparents did to help them in a time of great need. The threat in South West Asia is immense and the great people of Afghanistan truly need our help and support. Simply patting them on the back building a school and saying we support you is not enough. We must have boots on the ground dig in and prepare to defend our principles and our friends. I believe we can now look back at WW2 and say not only was it worth while but out of it we gained many great friends and proved that we really believed what we say. Fifty years from now I know we will say the same thing about this war and theAfghan people. Let's never again allow another Rwanda or Bosnia, we must be willing to do what is right even if that means some of us willbreathe our last breath trying. After I was deployed I received a small medal for my uniform, however more than that I know that my friends and I did what all the talkers will only talk about. As soon as we got homemost of us asked to go back as rapidly as we can. We sleep better atnight knowing we did the right thing...to you high paid Ottawa talkers....if we pull out and leave those people how will you sleep atnight?........Canada this is our time to do what is right lets keepdoing it. A very proud Canadian Soldier

Dan
said

You can tell that Harper paid bloggists are clogging this site with propaganda by how they start their comments by attacking mainly Dion and then Layton and praising Harper in the same line. How Nazi is that to completely stifle all discussion by saying it isn't supporting the troops. I have family in the military and the only way to support them is not to blindly, emotionally praise the troops but to examine the information and adapt the mission to the realities of whether it is working or not. Last year Jack Layton suggested negotiating with the Taliban and Peter MacKay and countless conservatives called him a communist/traitor etc, and guess what? Within a month Hamid Karzai made public offers to negotiate with Taliban! This just goes to show that Harper's Conservatives don't care about Afghanistan at all (and by extension, the troops), but just care about conservative ideology and looking good in the media and keeping up with Republicans in the US. Shame, shame!

Lance
said

to Military Wife: Are you saying the Taliban is behind 9/11?

You really need to do your homework along with all the other Armchair Generals out there who promote this phony war under the guise of "freedom".

Un-brainwash your head while you give it a good shake.

razor
said

i have served two combat mission in afghanistan and i am getting ready if the goverment says that i must go again. it is my job to do what other would not and will not. you people that sit at home and do your jobe are really infact supporting the military wether you want to or not.but remember this it is because of what i do and many other like me that will do what we believe in that allow you to sta home and do your jobs, for that i thank you. i have lost many friends over there and i an in agreement with the general that this cannot be for nothing. some have commented on things that you read in the paper and what you see on tv and that is fine you should only comment on what you know and not what you think you know. i am proud of who i serve and will not hesitate to what is right for this great nation and the people that live within its borders.

Aaron
said

Paul from Vancouver Island, you are wrong. Canada was known as a superb fighting nation long before we became known as peace keepers.

Arthur Currie (Cdn) revolutionized infantry/artillery warfare in the first world war and would have been the next commander of the allied forces had the war lasted any longer. We were feared so much, that the allies would make it appear Canadians were reinforcing certain areas to draw german soldiers to that area, and away from where the Canadians were really about to attack. We were also highly respected by the Germans in the second world war. Honored by Koreans because of what we did for them in their war. Canadians have a proud military history before the peacekeeping missions started. Today we are upholding our reputation of being superb fighters, and the Taliban fear us. That is why they are resorting to suicide attacks and IEDs - they cannot win in a conventional battle and they know that. They also know that people spreading false propaganda about what they perceive is going on in Afghanistan is going to win it for the Taliban. Those who think we should pull out are going to win it for the Taliban. Layton's solution to detainees is to let the Afghans take them, and have us turn a blind eye knowing the detainee will probably be beaten and murdered. Almost no one outside of the military knows what is going on in Afhganistan, even the opposition leaders, because the intelligence we get is all secret, and we cannot disclose it for operational security reasons. We soldiers want to be in Afghanistan, because we believe in the mission. If someone doesn't want to go overseas, they don't have to - there are ways to avoid it. Canada should uphold our reputation and actually protect the Afghanis and help them improve their lives. That is humanitarian, not leaving them to be literally hung out to dry.

Aaron
said

Just to clarify, the Afghan mission started as a fighting mission, not a humanitarian one. We went in with the Americans in 2002, and then returned in 2004. Moved to Kandahar province in 2006 when the fighting really kicked up again because the taliban had almost free reign there for four years.

Yes we are establishing a democracy, but do not get it confused with inheriting our laws. They elect their president, but they follow Islamic laws. Yes some of these laws are brutal, but it is their laws. Never-the-less it is still better than under the Taliban. Oh and conspiracy theorists, it's not about the oil.

CanadianSoldier
said

Lance you need to give your own head a shake. There is no oil in Afganistan and we are not protecting opium fields. Stating that this is a waste of time is a kick in the face to those who are serving in Afganistan and most importantly those who lost their lives for a cause they believe in.

I do not understand how anyone could say we are there to appease the americans. If this is the case wouldn't we be in Iraq. We are in afganistan under a Nato Mandate and at the request of the afgan gov. Remember our troops are not only involved in Combat but they are also heavily involved in rebuilding and humanitarian aid.

General Hilier is simply giving a military perspective of the situation and is not intefering in politics. After all this is his area of expertise. I would rather have the advice of a military general on combat matters, rather than a civilian who has not experienced it first hand.

Support our troops!!!

War Wife
said

I'm not sure how they expect to avoid combat. When an RPG is fired near camp, are they going to sit around until the insurgents get it right and actually hit the camp?? Either in or out, not humanitarian. That's not going to be effective at all. They are doing a great job of what they are doing now, they just need more supplies. More air travel, less ground travel. Support our Troops.

Chris
said

RayjJcques, Where are you coming from? Not all us conservative supporters put our mind in neutral like you say. You are a typical Liberal, you think you're way is the way all Canadians think or should think. Well I got news for you, we all don't believe that the Liberal way is the only way. And as for all you so called ex-soldiers writting in to say we are wasting our time and so on. Have you ever deployed to a war zone? probably not, so if not, comment but don't comment about you being a soldier and not knowing what you are talk about. I believe we should not have gone there in the first plasce but now that we are there then we must stay till the end or the soldiers who died have died for nothing. Why do you think the British stayed in Norhtern Ireland for so long, because if they pulled out before the job was done then the troops that died, died for nothing. And just for your so you know I deployed to Croatia in 91, Bosnia in 99 and Eritrea/Etiopia in 2000

FreakAlert
said

We don't live in a democracy, Jake. Try reading the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto..and see how western democracy is no different from it today.

Davey Legasse
said

I guess the part I don't understand is why we don't develop our own home grown nuclear technology and detonate a small/medium sized device in the Afghan mountains. The Taliban it doesn't kill will be irradiated and easy to track and eliminate.
Just another example of the shortsightedness of the Canadian military.

Ken V
said

Typical liberal attitude is to be in a war zone and not fight. I'm not sure how you do this but I guess a good example is do what most of the other NATO forces are doing not much. I think this is going to be a wake up call to NATO. NATO really does not do much to help situations like Afganistan so why not form an organization that actually works.

Roadrobber
said

The Afghanistan Mission is a NATO mission. If Canada is not willing to continue supporting this mission, then Canada should completely withdraw from NATO.

I am disappointed, but not surprised that there are some people still making this war one about oil. Why does everything have to be about oil? Get a life people.

Craig
said

The left always says that Canada "has always played the role of peacekeeper". What does that mean? Do you even know what peacekeepers do? No, you don't, it's a happy sounding word that has been stolen and manipulated by the Liberals and NDP.

In the 90s the Canadian peacekeepers carried weapons and enforced the rule of law. When challenged, they fought back. This is very similar to what is going on now.

But all of you seem to think that all the Canadian peacekeepers did was put on a blue hat and walk old ladies across the street. Get your heads of out of the sand and don't just spout Liberal rhetoric.

Roadrobber
said

So Stephane Dion and the Liberals want Canadian troops to remain but only in a non-combat role. Do they want to keep them there as tourists? Stephane Dion needs to resign as Liberal leader as soon as possible and the Liberals need to elect someone who is at most semi-competent.

Patrick Mc/ N.S. Rifles (inactive)
said

Let's get this straight.

The USA was attacked on 9/11 by Saudi nationals. the Americans send a rump force into Afghanistan and let it slide. Last week the same Americans sell 23 billion dollars worth of weapons to the Saudi dictators.

and our soldiers should die for this? Ridiculous nonsense. I'll vote for whatever political party demands the withdrawal of our forces.

Jake
said

It does strike me as odd that in a democratic government, let us say ours is, that we can still wage a war when over half the population is against it. Let me go out on a limb again, and say we are actually fighting for democracy, and those who can�t fight for themselves. Then why do I read that an Afghan citizen has been tried in a court, not by his peers, but by a tribunal of clerics, and sentenced to death for writing an article that said some Islamic policies are wrong in his opinion. Someone said it above; other western nations aren�t involving themselves in this ridiculous fiasco, because they have political aspirations. It is Time for our government to pay attention to its people, not the select few that want these conflicts, or just don�t have the knowledge to understand what is really happening here. Buy a history book that goes further back than September 11 2001 people!

Home at 8
said

I notice many of you here have your opinion about what's going on in Afghanistan but all of you look at it from a civilian perspective. Most of you who comment here have never served in the military or have any military background whatsoever accept for very few. Some say we need to re-evaluate, some say we need to leave, some say it's taking to long, but this is all in a perspective that you have from being trained as civilians and educated as civilians. You base success on certain value's you learn in civilian life, however military success and military perspectives are completely different. So, what I'm trying to say is let the military look after matters of the military and I ask you all to support our men and women in Uniform, because without them, you really wouldn't be entitled to any opinion.

Vanessa C
said

For those wondering "why we are fighting there"... it's for many reasons. Among them making the country stable and capable of doing the job on its own, aid in reconstruction (which of course the media rarely reports on or only as an aside or small story hidden) among others. Look at the country *BEFORE* we went there. Chaos. Mob rule. Repression. Now look at it. Advancing in leaps that would never be possible in the same time frame on its own. Yes, there are still problems and occurrences of things that shouldn't, but they are FAR LESS than before, and far less than if we were not there.

As for combat, yes, we will face combat situations even if we were to reduce our role. IT HAPPENS. It's war, the MILITARY is there. As a former soldier myself, it is something that I knew was expected of me - face combat. It's what YOU, the taxpayer, PAY US FOR. Should a member not want to face it, or has dilemmas regarding it, they simply ask for a release. Those that don't we expect the possibility and will do the job as best as possible.

Start actually learning on the whole picture, people, not just what you read or see in the media - there is more to what is shown, and more good than bad.

WE NEED TO AND MUST STAY AND FINISH THE JOB!!

JP Levesque
said

HMMMM -
Being Ex militray and having worked at NDHQ- I se where Hillier is at.
He along with Harper have taken the Role of Peacekeeper and but it in the attic.
The Afghanistan mission is just another screw up by the Americnas-
whats next - Iraq .
Respect our Troops and BRING THEM HOME !!!!!!

Warrant Officer (ret'd)
said

Whether we should or shouldn't be there is a political decision by the government of the day, that we, a majority of Canadians elected. Now that we are there it is only reasonable that all Canadians support the scarifice that is being made by the young men and women in uniform and that we never forgot those who lost their lives representing Canada. The Americans learned a value lesson regarding the conduct of combat operations in Vietnam, mainly that half measures do not work. General Hillier is correct, combat will not be avoided in the future and the troops need the whole tool crib to do the job. The Afgan lessons learned by the Russians should not be forgotten.

cantuc
said

How in the hell do we get from General Hillier talking about Kandahar to not selling anything to the USA ? Do people even read the story before copying and pasting their same old ,same old comments every time there is a story about Afghanistan ?

R/H
said

justin: Try this link as well. Maybe it's not all Michael Moore telling us what is happening
"http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oil.html"

Chris
said

Wikipedia, that was an interesting post. Too bad you did not go further to reveal that the TAP project was cancelled in 1998. But I guess that would have allowing facts to get in the way of a good arguement.

Frustrated and confused
said

I have always been against the war in Afghanistan (and war in general), but I think that I could support this war if there was any sense of purpose to it. The gov't tells us we are fighting this war to uphold Canadian ideals. This makes no sense to me. Is it our ideal to force others societies to be like us? Or, if we are doing this because we think our society is right, then why only in Afghanistan? Why not in the many other countries where education is banned, where women are without rights, where democracy is non-existent? Also, I don't think it is a Canadian ideal to support governments that torture prisoners, to support governments that put citizens to death for expressing opinions contrary to the ruling religious opinion, to support governments that stifle religious and personal freedoms. And yet the current Afghan government does all of these things right under our protective cover. Conservatives say we are fighting to protect ourselves. If this is the case, then why aren't we going into Pakistan, which is a haven for Taliban and terrorist resources, where they can rest and restock? Why aren't we obliterating the poppy fields, that supply so much money to warlords and terrorists, that create drug problems across the world? Sometimes people say we are building a democratic nation, but where's the proof? How come there aren't monthly reports on the amount of schools built, on the number of Afghanis who are successfully trained and equipped to police their own nation, on the completion of useful infrastructure, including access to the internet? Where are the elections, the Afghani parliamentary debates? All we get are vague reports about the flow and ebb of Taliban attacks, which never ebb for more than a season, but those ebbs are touted as victories. Everybody who has a stake in this war has a different message, and different purpose. Which is it? Is our purpose noble (true freedom for all the people of Afghanistan), selfish (to protect ourselves from terrorists), egotistic (to make Canada a physical force in world politics)? Was it just to help the Americans avenge 9/11? If this is the case, we should either focus all our efforts on capturing the apparently forgotten Osama bin Laden or get the hell out now. Until there is a clear declaration of purpose, no one side will ever win this argument, and we will never win this war.

jeff
said

Get out now, we shouldn't even be in Afghanistan anymore or ever. If there was no oil there, we or the States wouldn't be there. That's a fact. Waste of money and life trying to please Bush. It's a joke and most Canadians realize this.

Antony. (Chilliwack, B.C.)
said

Why is it that this was a humanitarian mission to start and now we are calling it a WAR??? when did this all change? We started on a humanitarian mission and some how it turned into a war. I support the troops and the humanitarian mission but not the war part.

Military Wife
said

My husband is leaving in May for a NINE month tour. He is leaving a 9 year old, a 5 month old...he believes our soldiers are making a difference. He believes change is happening and he BELIEVES that the Afghan women and children DESERVE the same things that our children and I, as a woman, have. He told me needs to go, because if roles were reversed, he would be praying for NATO to save our family and fight for HUMAN RIGHTS.
When I say goodbye to him in May...I will stand in full support of him, his unit and his C.Os.
I am ashamed that our leading political parties do not stand behind my husband and all of the other soldiers. It is because of the soldiers years ago (my grandfather included) that they are able to sit in comfy chairs, in a heated or air conditioned building and argue over this!
And now...IF NATO pulls out...does anyone think that the Taliban is just going to have a beer and be thankful? They are not rational... is it inconceivable that they might attempt worse than 9/11? Canadian came to our country and tried to tell us how to live... lets do it to them!
I do NOT support fighting, killing or pain. BUT - I would rather this happen anywhere but on Canadian soil. What would these politician do then? Grab a gun and stand firm to defend our country and children?

Don't run for Prime Minister unless you would.

GM
said

Pro- war?? I don't like crime but I believe in fightng crime. I don't like fires but I believe in fighting fires. I DO NOT like the human cost of conflict but "Freedom is not free". The Liberal policy of "watch the fire but don't fight it" is BS foreign policy. I fully support the Manley report and I feel blessed live in a country with first class troops willing to defend it!

steve I. C.
said

To "Dani"

I agree and it also appears that it's in the Conservative Governments best interest to use the fear of terrorism to further their oil and gas agenda's with the States. But hey... Harper asked Bush sternly for support or we're out, so I guess that's good enough and I guess there's no need for further debate.

flatfootretired
said

As a Canadian I am proud of our troops and the job they are doing - I support their efforts. I do get upset with those that think we should make more sacrifices by sending more Canadian resources both in soldiers and equipment without the support of other Nato Nations giving equal backing. Also if someone is saying we stay the long haul that they belly up to the bar and volunteer their own services or their kids to the effort. Not some one else's kids while they armchair advocate in their cozy lazyboy lounger in the burbs. Cheers

Peter Fanning
said

I've recently seen interviews of villagers expressing support for the Taleban. It's their country. I say bring our soldies home as soon as possible.

Den
said

I don't remember voting for Hillier. He can manage the war from the ground, but the decision to stay, to go, or the nature of our involvement is still up to Canadians and the people we elect to represent us.

If Hillier can't keep quiet on political matters, he shouldn't be allowed to lead the forces.

Rebecca
said

Why are we protecting this regime? Last week a journalist was sentenced to death for writing on the oppression of women.

I am ashamed of our presence in Afghanistan. It has nothing to do with instilling our beliefs.

Billly P./ ottawa
said

wendy writes: "No political party in this country should have a say in whether we stay or not."

Sorry, I live in a democracy and will vote for the political party that promised to end our military presence in Afghanistan.

FreakAlert
said

Taking Canadian patriotism and geopolitical realities(Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan), out of the equation, somebody explain to me, what and who is a Taliban?

Gerry
said

The position by the Liberals is dependent upon another force replacing Canada in the "combat" role that Canada has filled without relief. This then frees up Canada's forces to provide security for those implementing development projects.

This is a good and sensible approach that will honour the soldiers who have fallen while providing a country that will be able to grow and prosper for the Afghanistan people.

Ken Mcrea
said

Why do the leaders not listen to Canadians but try to sell them this bill of spoiled goods. Why the need to ignore the majority of Canadians who want this mission to end?
As with the Charlottetown Accord, the majority of Canadians will not swallow the governments spin on the Afghanistan mission

Roger
said

To those who are opposed to aiding Afgan in their war against violence, tyrany and terrorism: Would you also say that our forces who fought (and died) in World War I and especially World War II also fought in vain? There are only two ways that 'peace' can come out of this: Either we fight for peace, or we surrender to our enemy and submit whole-heartedly to their rule, tyrany, slavery, and religious ideals (as Bin Laden called America to do). In my opinion, the latter is not an option and the former should be dealt with like one deals with a an isolated yet uncontrolled fire: It is best dealt with when it is small so it may be at least contained or snuffed out, rather than ignored until it is larger than life, causes more damage and deaths, and will require greater sacrifices in order to contain and overcome.
We need to support our military in this war for freedom--- not just the freedom of the Afgan people, but ultimately our own freedom and the freedom of our children as well!

Ramona
said

Time to get out now. Period. Actually the time to get out was yeserday.

Paul Vancouver Island
said

Canadians need to dialogue about Canada's role in the World. We work best as peacekeepers / policing / diplomats. We are not a military nation like the US or Britain. We have a much different and much cherished tradition as a young nation. We are (or at least were) respected throughout the world for the role we played in cooling down conflicts. One of our former Prime Ministers, Lester B. Pearson, won the Noble Peace Prize for avoiding a conflict from getting out of hand. Canadians are unique, we should work with what we do best. Our soldiers worked well as peacekeepers / policing while our diplomats went to work. Conservatives have a different way of thinking about Canada's role in the world. It is more combative and a build up of military might. If we want to follow the conservative Republican creed in the US so be it, but Canadians should decide. My final thought, withdraw our combat role in February 2009 and get back to what we do best.

Stoutlimb
said

What are we fighting for? Freedom in Afghanistan? Surely not! There are regular stories about Afghan reporters getting the death penalty for downloading articles about womens rights. People getting stoned for insulting Islam. And these are the guys on our side doing this. I think the army should point their guns also at the Afghan government, or just get the heck out of there. There's no point when the people you're fighting against are just like the people you're defending.

Gary
said

If I was Dion this is what I would do.... i would agree to the Manley report recommendations as a starting point and then negotiate with Harper to set a review date of February 2010 or 2011. This open ended mission is just a bad idea. My guess is that the Americans will elect a Democratic government in November 2008 and that within a year or so they will pull a lot of their troops from Iraq and go back into Afghanistan, where they should be. Dion could also ask for 1500-2000 additional troops ( instead of 1,000) as well. The Americans will be adding 3,200 marines for a 7 month stint in Afghanistan soon. In this way Canadian troops can stay in Kandahar, minimize their exposure, and concentrate on training Afghani police/army more effectively. By 2010/2011 the Afghani security forces should be ready to go. The deadline for our extension needs to be added. I am suggesting 2010 or 2011

Truthful Joe
said

So, Hillier was allowed to speak was he, err, to read off the paper he was given...Good Little General, you'll get another star at the end of the day. Now if McCain could just get hisself 'lected, won't that work in swell with Stevie's plans!!

Withheld as I am in the military
said

I spent two tours in country and as we say to all the complainers, after giving them a straw..."SUCK IT UP!" We need to continue our job in country and for that we need, and deserve, a government that will COMPLETELY support us. Whatever your stand on the conflict, whatever your politics...NEVER lash out against the soldier. We are doing our job to better this country.
Captain(name withheld as i am still in the military)

Ian
said

Just because things are taking longer than we like, it doesn't mean that we should just say, "oh well, we've been here long enough, let's go home" It the same old story with some people. If I can't see how this directly affects me then it's not my problem. If we don't wage a war on terror, as it's called, then the terrorists will bring the war to us. Don't think it won't happen. Why did Canada get involved in WW2? Not only because Britain did, but because we saw what could happen to the world if Hitler and Mussolini won the war.

Jim Dandy
said

I agree with JD from Alberta. One thing that is never mentioned is that the Canadian armed forces has been on the winning side in every conflict we have engaged in for over 200 years. We have often be judged as the best fighting forces by our opponets. While a rotation by all NATO forces would make our job easier, no other forces will do the job as well. FULL STOP. It looks like if we wish to keep the war over there, and remember there is no home field advantage in a war, the Canadian armed forces will have to finish the job

Gary
said

i think we need to evaluate the mission in Afghanistan- both from a success perspective. What is success ? and secondly we need to ensure the missions values are realistic. If we are just there to help build a self sustaining government and army to secure it..but the new government still invokes ' old' values that demean women, stifle free thought, etcetcetc..we must then question this mission. If in fact we believe we are doing some ' real' sustainable good then we must determine how we be successful in our mission. It makes NO sense why Canada has to shoulder all the weight in a UN/NATO coalition mission. Canada should do its fair share. We have done that and more and without a better plan we need to assess our role in Afghanistan. In a perfect world, the Americans would come back to Afghanistan as they start to leave Iraq and finish the job they started. I am sure Canada would assist in any way we can. But to shoulder all the weight, as we do now, without a success plan or any acknowldgement that our good work will bring about real change in Afghanistan..needs to be re-assessed.

Walter in Calgary
said

No western European government is going to provide more trops for a combat rule. they are democracies and their government will fall. People are not stupid and understand this so-called noble cause is anything but noble. time to end this charade.

Lart from Above
said

What soldiers know, but apparently Conservatives and Liberals do not, is that war is hard and the good guys don't win every battle. Throwing soldiers into a losing battle is like borrowing money to buy lottery tickets. National pride isn't a reason to send young people to die.

Canada has shown great courage fighting in the most difficult area of the war in Afghanistan. The Afghan government has failed to deal with problems of corruption and basic infrastructure challenges that push the Pashtun locals into supporting the Taliban. This is a NATO mission to defend the United States from attack, but our European allies haven't offered enough support and our American allies have chosen to distract themselves with an unjust war in Iraq. Canada has done more than its share in Afghanistan, and Canada is not single-handedly responsible for solving the world's problems.

In a democracy, sacrifices in war can only be tolerated if the voters support the war. If Harper thinks Canadians support the war, let him call an eletion on the issue to gain a majority government.

I support the Canadian presence in Afghanistan. Most Canadian voters do not; they feel that Canada has paid a high enough price. Unlike Harper, Stephane Dion is responding to the will of the Canadian people, which is the job of a political leader. If other NATO allies join us, popular sentiment may change. The Manley report has done as much as possible to articulate the problem and show alternatives, but no one in Canada can control the Taliban or the policies of our allies.

Conservatives need to quit whining about the opposition and either govern as a minority government or call an election. Their excessive and cowardly partisanship is very harmful when dealing with difficult issues like this.

Justin
said

Nice quote from Wikipedia. Of course you left out "Since the United States military overthrew the Taliban government the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable..."

There is no pipeline being built.

BK
said

I cannot believe the attitude of some of the retired or ex miltary making comments here and suggesting we are wasting our time in Afghanistan. Being ex-military myself, I applaud the efforts of our troops and fully support this mission. Some of you people need to get out of your armchairs and visit some of these third world countries and get a dose of reality. It sure is easy to sit in front of your big screen TV or computer with your two cars in the driveway of your big house and say, "Gee, why are we over there, let them fight their own battles". See if you have the same attitude after one of the terrorists trained over there blows up your house.

Don
said

To Wendy:
Why do we have municipal, provincial or federal governments? They are elected by the citizens to make these decisions on behalf of the people. Not everyone will agree with the decisions being made, but ya know what that's life. If we were to have a referendum on the war, than why not on gay marriage, gun control, legalizing drug use... Where would it end.

Secondly, the troops and the mission are one in the same. It is our troops heading the mission, the mission is their "job". So to critisize their job is the same as critisizing the soldier.

Ray jJcques
said

Owen,
Being patriotic is everyone's goal,NOT JUST CONSERVATIVE supporters, including the Liberals. Real patriotic Canadians should understand the need to rotate troops and stop trying to politicize everything. Hillier is told what to do by Parliament, PERIOD. I do not care what he thinks about the politics of it. The years why the Liberals spent so little money on defense (and on Medicare as well) was to get our finacial gouse in order. When Mulroney left office, the projected deficit was $ 44 billion for that year alone.

I really wonder how so many Canadian have to short a momory and wonder if ALL of these so pro conservatives write-ins are actually plants by the PMO. I do not believe that so many Canadian as seem to write into these blogs is so ignorant and equally so against the Liberals who have served Canda so well for so many years.

It was the Liberals who put our troops there in the first place, not the Conservatives. Had we listened to Haprer, we would have been in Iraq too ! What the hell is going on with these so outraheous and ridiculous comments by seemingly so many Canadians ? Surely you can support the Conservative without having to put your brains in neutral accepting ALL the talking points and endless repetition of half truths or outright lies spewed-out by the conservatives ALL the time! Harper has damaged Canada. Mr Dion is at least trying to do his job.
Come-on guys (and gals, be more fair and reasonable please.

Dani
said

Perhaps if we did not send all our oil to the US (their biggest importer of oil) and purchase our oil back for more money, then the US would not be over there in the first place to secure oilpipes and get into Russia. Look at the history my Canadian friends- get an education on why the US governments when they are Republicans- continually make up terrorist this and that stories to secure their oil. We really need to stand up for Canada and stop selling them our water, oil, lumber, and so forth. Keep it for ourselves and lessen the cost of these things.

Wikipedia
said

The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline (TAP or TAPI) is a proposed natural gas pipeline being developed by the Asian Development Bank. The pipeline will transport Caspian Sea natural gas from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan and then to India.
The 1,680 km pipeline will run from the Dauletabad gas field to Afghanistan. From there TAPI will be constructed alongside the highway running from Herat to Kandahar, and then via Quetta and Multan in Pakistan. The final destination of the pipeline will be the Indian town of Fazilka, near the border between Pakistan and India. The pipeline will be 1,420 mm in diameter with a working pressure of 100 atm and the capacity of 33 billion cubic meter (bcm) of natural gas annually. Six compressor stations are to be constructed along the pipeline. The cost of this international infrastructure is estimated at US$3.5 billion (2005 figures). Proponents of the project see it as a modern continuation of the Silk Road. The Afghan government is expected to receive 8% of the project's revenue.

Annete
said

No democracy shold be at war without overwhelmng support of the population. Most thinking and informed Canadians recognize this mission as a mistake.

Bring out troops home now.

Eric Chan
said

I am very satisfied with Harper asking for reinforcements, and it's true, battles needs to be done in order to accomplished there mission or else, everything they built will be blown sky high when Canadians leave the area. I suggest some tanks surrounding the area, and spy planes in the air

DS staff
said

As a infantry soldier who has returned from Afghanistan, and have experienced combat, Gen Hillier is correct in saying wherever we go we will face combat. Sure we need more COMBAT troops in the south, but times that by about ten, we need a division to hold all the ground, another batallion won't cut it. We are doing a worth while cause and the Afghani army has been great, it will take time, unfortunately people want instant results which just wont happen.

Sue / Okotoks
said

All this appeal to history is pathetic. Jingoism at its worse. My grandfather did not fight in WW2 to help one side against the other to decide who governs a medieval authoritarian culture.
I'll vote for whatever party says no more of this nonsense in Afghanistan

Doug
said

The Manley Report did not go far enough when it suggested Canada should leave if NATO could not supply more troops,and a few helicopters.
What it should have said was that Canada should leave in the UN,who sactioned the mission,and NATO,who took on the job,did not commit both the strategy and the resources necessary for a positive outcome.
The intent here is noble.As are those serving to fulfill the mandate.There is lots of room to debate about the chances of success,or even what success is.Surely we cannot claim success if Afganistan just ends up with a different corrupt and violent government.
But,one thing is clear,if you ask people to put themselves in harms way,you have an obligation to supply everything they need to succeed.
I tend to favour the goal of this mission.I am,however,concerned that many countries who support the mission are doing little more than offering the usual lip service that comes out of the UN.

Wendy
said

No political party in this country should have a say in whether we stay or not. This needs to be put to a vote by every Canadian citizen of legal voting age and not left to those who are trying to win votes. Set a date for a vote and let's do it. I bet more people would vote on this than voted in the last federal election. We also need to listen to our soldiers who were there, are there and will be there. Their voices should count as well.

Lance: most people in this country do not support the "mission" but support our troops. There is a big difference and they are not one and the same.

Denis P
said

So, the Commander of the CF says that we can't be in Kandahar and not be in combat.
The Manely report even spelled out that, in training the Afghan army, much of the training is done in a combat role.
So, what does Dion mean by "changing roles to include training".

Duh, earth to Dion and the Liberal party.
Can you spell hypocrisy.

Stan ret. RCEME
said

I've never seen a bigger mess than we've gotten our soldiers into. If there were not dead Canadians it would be a comedy skit. Our mission is bring stability so a governmnet can rule that represens the antithesis of what we believe in and if Nato pulls ot then a government may take over that represents the antithesis of wht we believe in.

This continued farce isn't worth one Canadian life or one cent of our treasury.

Bill
said

Eric Margolis makes some valid points in his article, I guess. But Harper didn't send our troops to Afghanistan. I would gladly see a politician take Capt. Trevor Greene�s spot when he conducted negotiations with the Pashtun tribes. How can he say a mere 2,500 troops? That is all this country can support with past and current funding!! This is a NATO led war, and it is not Canada�s failure if things don�t pan out. Gen. Hillier is the person we should turn our attention to with respect to this mission. He has performed well beyond the expectations of the Canadian public, and our troops. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the personal that serve in our countries interest, and to the families that have to live without them for extended periods of time.

JD in Alberta
said

It's really too bad that most Canadians have confused our military with UN peacekeepers. Our previous government had even chaged the name from the CDN Armed Forces to the CDN Forces, so we don't seen so threatening. Give me a break. People ask why we are there; we are the because our military men and women are the best at what they do. They are defending people who cannot defend themselves. As soldiers we know there is a chance we may never come home.It has nothing to do with oil, or opium or pink elephants. I am a former member of the Army, and it saddens and disgusts me that Canadians are passing judgement on our government and this mission the way they do without fully understanding the WHOLE situation. Until yoiu put on the uniform you will never understand, and please remember if it was'nt for the former and current men and women in uniform, your world as you know it would be completley different than it is now.

WK Whitby Support
said

I do agree, that our fellow NATO countries need to do more. Those that are still doing so, need to immediately remove their restrictions preventing deployment in the more hazardous regions of Afghanistan. There should be a more broader spread of the combat burden. In that sense, the Conservatives are right; no extended commitment, unless there is more coming from other NATO countries! Gen. Hillier is also right; can't be in Kandahar, without encountering combat at some point or another. Can't help build a country, while "insurgents" are constantly attacking forces and disrupting those efforts. We should all SUPPORT THE TROOPS!...even if a person doesn't support the way itself. The sooner the Afghan forces can look after things, the better. That may not happen, without many more destructive results on the Taliban & Al-Qaida. There has to be some end in sight, though; nothing "open-ended" should be accepted.

Justin
said

There is NO pipeline currently being built in Afghanistan. What is it going to take for you people to understand that?? Stop trusting Michael Moore for your news source.

Tom
said

I am at times dismayed at the attitude of the canadian people, on one hand you see pictures of the rest of the world and say why don't we do something, and then when we do ie Afghanistan you get all silly and bemoan the loss of some of our troops. Well freedom costs and more often than not has been paid for in blood. If there ever was a worthwile mission it is Afghanistan, I feel so strongly about the mission that I have commited 18 months away from my family, so I am not just an arm chair quarter back, but lets not lose sight of the big picture, it will take a great deal of commitment. To make any meaningful progress we will need to commit to decades in one capacity or another. There is no combat mission or reconstruction mission they are intertwined in an incredably complex mission called counter insurgency. That being said Canada, reach down and grab a set. Make up your mind because quite frankly this wounderfuly democratic debate makes our life more dangerous in theatre, unlike this country the insurgents see democratic debate as a weakness and your indecision is being used against us in the streets of Kandahar and all the small villages in the province. The Afghan people want us there but they also must look after there own safety and they do that by hedging there bets, and if there is no long term commitment by us then they will not support us. Canada you like to call yourselves peace keepers and it makes you feel good about yourselves, but peacekeeping rarely works, lets become a people known as nation builders There is a lot more satisfaction in that.

Jeff Langille
said

John Manley said it perfect when delivering his panels report "If not here then where?". If Canada wants to be a credible middle power we have to stand up for the values that we hold dear to our hearts. If the people of Afghanistan do not meet the requirements for our help, then who does? No matter what mission we decide to support we have to be ready for combat operations. In Kandahar, what would people have our troops do? Let bullets and bombs kill them and the innoccent people of Afghanistan, while the troops sit back and watch? As long as Candada is in Kandahar we will be involved in combat.

Combat for what, exactly?
said

I hope the media is going to be keeping a close eye on the case of the journalist in Afghanistan who got a death sentence (without a trial or jury) last week from the Afghanistan authorities. His crime was bringing to light a paper that questioned Islamic precepts on women. This is a very important story that needs more attention, because scrutiny and pressure from more civilized vantage points could well be what saves his life.

http://iwpr.net/?p=arr&s=f&o=342144&apc_state=henh

As per the story's relevance to Hillier saying combat is unavoidable if we are to stay there, are we in combat to help build an army that will operate under a government that will uphold these extremely hard-line Islamic values and hand out death sentences without trial for non-crimes? I certainly hope not... no Canadian should be put in the line of fire to fight for that.

Lance
said

i totally agree with Frank Cpt.

This is a huge waste of time and money and our children (military) should not be fighting to build oil pipelines & protecting opium fields.

This is a disgrace and anyone supporting this "mission" needs to give their head a shake.

Bring our kids home and send our politicians instead,....and watch how fast it will all end.

tfsl
said

big picture

This is not Canada's fight alone - this is a NATO lead mission and "rotation" to combat in Kandahar must come from within all NATO countries - this is not about Liberal vs Conservative - but what is right for the mission to bring hope and prosperity to the Afghan people - this is a just mission and we need to stay focused - so that the men & women whom have given so much - will not be in vain!

Tony
said

We should never tuck our tails and run. We have a reputation to uphold as a Nation. This is a good cause, helping Afghanistan develop into a nation where girls are allowed to go back to school...
The Liberals are off side on this one. Back off and support our troops.

Michael Le Couteur
said

It just goes on and on. One side pitted against the other in the so called war on terror. We are going to top 100 deaths with this plan and all we get is the same old rhetoric from the pro-war side and the same arguement from the anti-war. Suffice it to say, the conflict is not getting any better. It is certainly not the fantasy that some world leaders believe and I quote "...Thanks to the courage of these military and civilian personnel, a nation that was once a safe haven for al-Qaida is now a young democracy where boys and girls are going to school, new roads and hospitals are being built, and people are looking to the future with new hope." While I may agree with the premise of assisting the Arghan people (Afghni is the money) I do however find that fantasy type statements like the one above are bold face lies and garner confusion with regard to the mission. Don't just belly up and take what is being served as fact. How is the pipeline going in the south? How is the poppy eradication coming? Pipline=good poppy eradication=bad. I can only say from one on ones with my friends returning that things are indeed not as good as it has been made out to look like. We could say fantasy vs reality WRT the official statement and the soldiers.

Andy from Edmonton
said

Freakalert,
40 plus thousand troops does not mean combat troops. It takes alot of manpower to support the combat troops.

As for the Liberals and NDP need to stop playing politics and work on getting the job done as a team.

Milan baker RCHA
said

My father was at Normandy 8 months afer joining the army. I was in Cyprus 3 years after enlisting. If the Afghani people are not ready to fight then then they are never going to be ready. The so-called 'bad guys' are motivated and will win. One More Canadian casualty is one more pathetic waste to appease our polyanish Prime minister.

Owen
said

As a patriotic Canadian, I am very pleased with Prime Minister Harpers polished and professional performance and I am very proud of our accomplishmens in Aphganistan even though years of Liberal governments have left our military equipment is such a sad state. Hopefully our government can beg, borrow or buy some medium lift helicopters to evacuate our wounded and move supplies in a time sensitive manner. Example, Chretien, immediately canceled a helicopter contact upon being elected. In a volatile world like today, you must have a capable and well equiped armed forces.

Frank Capt. (ret.)
said

Canadian soldiers shouldn't die to entrench one set of thugs against another. Let the Afghanis leave the opium fields and fight their own battles

JC
said

Of course Canada will have to be in a combat role. It only makes sense that you cannot build a country while being under fire from terrorists. The insurgents have to be stopped while the country builds its forces. IF people like Dion think otherwise, then they are mere fools. Do they think that our soldiers can build without being shot at or bombed with IED's? They have to defend themselves,and in order to do so must engage the enemy, if they do not the fatalities would rise tenfold. Rome was not built in a day!!!

31 Delta
said

That's right General Hillier, whatever Ottawa does decide to do, just make sure that they do it to honour the sacrifices already made by our men and women. Unfortunately people like Dion and Layton don't care for our military men and women, they don't honour them, but they are more then willing to use them as pawns in their little dog and pony show if it means getting them elected. Canada, stand up and support your troops, they're doing a magnificent job over there and they won't walk away from a job half done.

Support the Troops
said

I am so thankful that we are currently NOT under this Liberal goverment while our troops are fighting abroad. They (and for that matter, the NDP and Bloc) prove time and again just how out of touch they are when it comes to this conflict. Listen to the soldiers and give them what they need to get the job done instead of being armchair quarterbacks.

FreakAlert
said

I've read something like 40 plus thousand NATO troops in Afghanistan. I am curious why the term 'rotation' is never used or suggested. Give our troops a break.

Anyway, a good and respected source of the region is Eric Margolis.

http://www.ericmargolis.com/

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