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Opposition MPs tee off on Afghan detainees issue
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Date: Mon. Jan. 28 2008 9:03 PM ET
Opposition parties used their first question period of 2008 to batter the government on the Afghan detainees issue, with a focus on honesty and openness.
"Why did the prime minister hide the truth from Canadians?" Liberal Leader Stephane Dion asked Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Monday in the House of Commons.
"That allegation is completely false," Harper shot back.
The Canadian military stopped transferring prisoners to the Afghan authorities on Nov. 6, the day after an allegation of torture was identified.
Dion noted that Defence Minister Peter MacKay was in Afghanistan at the time and yet it took three months for the stoppage to become publicly known.
Harper said the government revealed there was "credible evidence of a particular case of abuse."
The information was revealed to a court last week "to show clearly that the Canadian Forces ... always respect our humanitarian and international obligations," he said in French.
Deputy Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff noted that on Nov. 22, MacKay told the House there was not a single proven instance of detainee abuse in Afghanistan.
Given that MacKay was in Kandahar when the abuse case surfaced on Nov. 5, "was the minister asleep, out of the loop, or did he knowingly withhold information from this House?" Ignatieff asked.
"What I said at this time was absolutely true," MacKay said, adding the detainee transfer agreement remains in place.
Under the enhanced May 2007 agreement, Canada has greater access to prisoners and can be more proactive, the minister said.
NDP Leader Jack Layton also focused on the detainee issue, as did Bloc Quebecois MP Claude Bachand.
Layton noted that U.S. authorities issued press releases on prisoner captures and transfers in Afghanistan. "Why is this government ... continuing to keep Canadians in the dark?" he said.
Because the transfer agreement with the Afghan government remains in place, there may be more transfers. "That's why the government hasn't announced there won't be transfers, because there could well be," Harper said.
He added if Canada were to follow the American model, it would be sending prisoners to the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
"To be clear, that is not the policy of this government," Harper said.
The Manley panel
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe used his questions to ask Harper about the government's response to the Manley panel's recommendations on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan.
Harper said earlier he would be holding a vote on extending the mission, which is set to end in its current configuration on February 2009, sometime this spring.
There is a major NATO summit scheduled for April in Bucharest, Romania, at which the issue of more troops to help Canada in the insurgent hotbed of Kandahar province will be discussed.
"Will the prime minister act in a responsible manner and hold the vote on our mission before going to the summit?" Duceppe asked.
"This is a very important issue. I hope all parties in this House will take the time we need to consider the matter and make our decisions," Harper said.
Duceppe said Harper wants Canada to stay in Afghanistan at any price.
Harper said the mission's extension depends on getting additional troop from Canada's NATO allies.
The Liberals avoided the Manley report.
CTV's Graham Richardson told Newsnet that the Manley report -- Manley is a former Liberal cabinet minister -- puts the Liberals in a difficult position. Liberals want to end Canada's combat role in February 2009 while the Manley report recommends the combat part of the mission continue, but shift to increased training for Afghan soldiers and police.
None of the leaders asked questions about the economy despite the recent turmoil.
Some key other key issues likely arise during Parliament's first week back include:
- The firing of Nuclear Safety Commission chair Linda Keen; and
- The ongoing controversy over former prime minister Brian Mulroney's dealings with German-Canadian businessman Karlheinz Schreiber.
A Jan. 14 Strategic Counsel poll for CTV and The Globe and Mail found party support breaks down as follows:
- Conservatives: 36 per cent
- Liberals: 30 per cent
- NDP: 14 per cent
- Bloc Quebecois: 11 per cent
- Greens: 10 per cent
For the Liberals, Bloc and Tories, those numbers are essentially the same as their popular vote share in the Jan. 6, 2006 federal election.
The NDP are down 3.5 percentage points from their election total of 17.5 per cent, and the Greens are up 5.5 percentage points from their election total of 4.5 per cent.
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It is about time - as a grandparent I have watched our kids (who were allowed to fail although I do remember some nagging on our part) learn, I have watched our children now micro-manage their children. A big part of it is the fact that there are predators out there and an extreme reluctance on the parents part to alllow freedom that might result in the children becoming victims.
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Comments are now closed for this story
Don't Believe The Liberals
said
The military acted properly.
Too bad the Liberals have nothing legitimate to complain about.
Sounds like children crying over milk that wasn't even spilt.
Andrew
said
Mark G.
said
DougD
said
The leader of the LIEberal party & his sidekick should both be charged with TREASON.
Canuck
said
catsrulz
said
Mel Blake
said
seven entire responses before someone attacked
George Bush and the United
States about an issue that
has absolutely no connection to him or the
US. The most pressing issue that the opposition
is upset about is transparency. I tend to
lean pro-conservative but
there's a valid point they
goofed on this one, or
at least there's the appearance of it.
I don't think Bush or
the US was responsible.
For info, Canada is involved because Canadians died in the attacks carried out with
the tacit approval of
the Taliban who protected
and supported Bin Laden.
Believer
said
Johnny
said
Moreover, I am bothered that people claim that those of us who support the Tories are blind or inferior in some way. I am certainly not going to turn against the Tories when they did the right thing on the detainee issue. There was concern about POWs being tortured and so the military took the appropriate action. The Tories did not make that public until they had to. No one has yet been able to tell me why that was wrong. I suppose these people would have us televise troup movement information as well.
These sorts of comments are not constructive and add nothing to intelligent debate.
larry
said
As for the economy.. its strong and if we go into recession; they tend to last 10 months on average, then recover.. so why all the concern over tax cuts. We are taxed too high as it is.
I really hope we do the 'right thing' by staying the course in Afganistan to assist these people.
Ed
said
David from NS
said
CNN
said
Try fighting a war like that.
Oh wait... we do.
Canuck in Seattle
said
All you partisan people are sickening.
I think Harper is doing a decent and honest job. This is coming from someone who thinks Mulroney was as bad as Bush. The two are the worst leaders in the history of North America.
Dan Bartie
said
Cheryl
said
First of all, can we be so sure that all of the detainees are Taliban? I think not.
Secondly, why don't we ask Canadian, Bill Sampson if torture elicits credible information. Mr. Sampson was tortured for two years. He was tough and fiesty, but still confessed to what the torturers wanted to hear. The man was beaten, hung by handcuffs to a door frame, sodomized etc. etc. etc. Was that justified? Apparently in Saudia Arabia it was.
And aren't we in Afghanistan to brind democracy to that country? To my mind, democracy does not include torture.
Or, no wait, are we there to find Bin Laden or ....
why are we there again?
Cheryl
Paul out West
said
Liberals major iin the minors...
said
The Taliban issue is a non issue. The fact that the Afghans torture their prisoners isn't directly our responsibility nor our fault yet we upon discovering what was going on, stopped the practice so whats the issue Dion?
John
said
Dear Pat_Pending
said
CLOKE
said
The persons the military have to defend are either for us or against us. And that goes for S. Dion and his sidekick Iggy.
We know Layton is not with us so I would suggest he go and stand guard at a Canadian run prison camp for Afghan detainees.
Dave in Surrey
said
The list of failures keeps on growing from our Conservatives, as we should have expected from such a weak leader and team...
And for those 'Who Cares if they torture Taliban' critics, well I always thought Canada was better than the Taliban and that we would never lower ourselves to their level... It's a shame when we compare our government to the likes of the Taliban...
John
said
Exiled Canadian
said
I hate to say this but the Liberals are looking more and more like a bunch of amateur statesmen (and women). The NDP and Bloc would fit better in the Russian system - to the left of Putin and his cronies.
The conservatives did exactly what was needed to maintain integrity with both the Afghan government and NATO allies. But, as susual, the Liberals (who knew about this but also said nothing a few weeks ago) will waste no opportunity to attack on insignificant matters to Canadians.
Interesting on how they avoid the entire question of the economy when that is the biggest concern of Canadians right now. Gee, I wonder why?
Heaven help us if any of these folks get to lead the nation.
Mac
said
Glenn in BC
said
Scott
said
If they did NOT know about it, they are incompetant and ignorant.
Either way, the complete lack of leadership is obvious to all but the most igorant of voters who will buy ANYTHING Harper feeds them. He has a proven track record of lies and deceit, and the fact that he holds any popular support at all is evidence of the lack of education among voters in this country.
Harper and his regime must go.
Lart from Above
said
Once upon a time, ministers would resign from cabinet for lying to Parliament. But in Harper's Orwellian language, "accountability" is a buzzword used to mean its exact opposite.
Other countries in Afghanistan, when this problem became evident, dealt with it by holding back detainees until they got proper assurances from the Afghan government, and set up a process of inspections to ensure proper treatment. When this problem came to the attention of the Harper government, they chose bluster and coverup instead. This is why the Taliban are winning in Afghanistan. The government is throwing away the gains made by Canadian troops in the field.
superman
said
Map
said
Jack
said
Pat_Pending
said
Afghanistan, Isotopes, lies, cover ups, arrogance, broken promises (remember income trusts?). It's a sad state of affairs - that's why they are going nowhere in the polls.
As for Afghanistan - I say we pull out. Have an election on it if necessary - but pull out now.
CWS
said
Rona from Canmore
said
MJ Thompson
said
WHO REALLY CARES!
Po
said
And he still hasn't done anything for the middle class... I'm middle class and GST doesn't really do anything for me... corporate tax breaks either. Now I would have liked a personal income tax break but with the 2 other cuts he made, apparently he couldn't afford that one.
Johnny
said
I agree that people who do not like Harper are indeed blowing this issue out of proportion to mar him. Unofficial Liberal Party advocates like Jane Taber being the worst of the bunch.
She went on yesterday on Question Period about how terrible this is, yet never told us why. She also never told us why it was all right that Dion kept the matter quiet.
As for questions about Harper's leadership, I will agree that he has made mistakes, but at least I know where he stands on most of the issues for better or for worse. I don't know where Dion stands on most policies, such as Afghanistan.
Josh in Ontario
said
I don't understand the position you seem to be defending. Canadian troops find evidence of torture in afghan prisons, so they no longer hand prisoners over to afghan officials. The conservatives deemed this information sensitive to the mission, and decided not to speak out. Secondly Derek, since you seem to be so obsessed with liberal partisanship, you should know that the liberal party denounced the introduction of the Goods and Services tax under Mulroney because it would be “damaging to the economy”, now they are saying the same when Harper attempts to decrease it. So I ask you, is having a GST good for the economy, or not. You can’t have it both ways.
Don
said
R from Sask
said
Is the Conservative government more transparent in how their message was when they were running to become our government? I'd say not seeing how every MP has to shut up on every single issue, we are not being told the truths in Afghanistan and so forth. The more things are hidden the more we will find that this government isn't for us and possibly come across a few more scandals like the Brian Mulroney days.
If you ask me, I would prefer a party who talks to the people and if they have done wrong including scandals at least it was brought up in the open rather than having MP's so tight lipped. It's time for the Conservative gov't to go they shown they cannot be trusted as they have to much to hide.
Vince M.
said
Why on Earth should the Canadian public be concerned about the welfare of a bunch of terrorists who would cut our heads off if they had the opportunity?
kevin
said
Ryder
said
Laurie
said
It is curious has to how the Liberals arrived at their two positions on Afghanistan:
1. Protect Taliban detainees.
2. Get out of Afghanistan and leave Afghanis to the mercy of the Taliban.
Wayne
said
LS
said
Al
said
Devon K.
said
I see there were comments about this government possibly putting us into deficit. I really question this because they put in place like the Liberals used to have a $3 billion contingency to their budget and still project a $3 billion surplus. Thats $6 billion of padding on the Federal finances. Factor in that the UI Fund and CPP are both in record territory where's the panic coming from?
Derek
said
When Mr. Harper was asked in the House about allegations of torture, he accused Liberals of being allies with the Taliban rather than investigate. When he wouldn't act, the military did. That is not being a leader.
When Linda Keen did her job ensuring nuclear safety (read her job description), she was fired because Harper said she was a partisan hack. She was a nuclear expert. He took his cues from his safety advisor Homer Simpson.
Investing in research and development is what our economy needs. Retraining workers is what our economy needs. Ensuring that canada is competitive on the world stage with Interest Deductibility policies (something Harper had to flip on) is what our economy needs. Harper's 1% GST cut that cost $5.5 billion dollars isn't going to stimulate the economy.
barry
said
Craig
said
Derek: Harper is not a leader? Then why is it EVERY world leader he has met with one-on-one has had nothing but praise? How come people are coming out of the woodwork declaring that they are proud that Canada has once again started taking stands on issues?
Also, you must have missed the basic economy classes in school. Tax cuts are used to FIGHT recessions. They promote consumption and spending which increases GDP and GNP.
Sean Calder
said
"The Liberals did not go public with the information -- which has now been made public in a court case -- because it was relayed at the time in a confidential briefing."
Because it was relayed at the time in a a confidential briefing. So, it's okay for the Liberals not to say anything about it, even after their return, but it's NOT okay for the Conservatives not to say anything about it.
What makes Liberal briefings more confidential than the Conservative briefings? I'll guarantee you that the answer is nothing. Dion and Ignatieff both knew that they couldn't and shouldn't say anything about the change in policy.
And even if they WERE allowed to say something, they chose not to. Why? Probably because they wanted to use it to partisan advantage.
S
said
John
said
As for protecting against recession, how do we stop a world wide recession?
Another boring sitting with nothing useful getting done and an opposition nit-picking about non-issues, some that even go back almost 20 years, why fight about something they could not even fix?
Julie
said
Pete
said
Fay from Manitoba
said
Derek
said
Torture and the way Mr. Harper continues to mislead Canadians is very serious.
The way Mr. Harper emptied the federal reserve with all those tax cuts has left the government unable to act in the face of a possible recession.
Very dangerous times. Mr. Harper is not a leader.
Paul
said
Allan Eizinas
said
It has worked before and it may work again.
Perhaps not.