PMO 'lied' about Afghan prisoner transfers: Dion

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he doesn't believe that the Conservative government did not know Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan had stopped transferring prisoners to Afghan authorities in early November.

That's because as opposition leader, Dion was made aware of the policy change during his visit to Afghanistan two weeks ago. He said if he knew, it's extremely doubtful that Canadian soldiers would have kept the Tory government in the dark about the issue.

On Thursday, the prime minister's communications director told CTV News that the military did not inform the Tory government of the change in policy, a statement she retracted Friday following heavy criticism from opposition parties and reportedly from top military officials.

Dion said that when he heard that Sandra Buckler had said the Tories were not informed, "I knew that was a lie."

On Friday, Buckler told CTV News she "misspoke" -- but she would not say whether the government was informed about the military's decision.

"I misspoke, I shouldn't have said it, I broke my own rule in speaking about operational matters in the military," Buckler told CTV News in a phone interview.

When asked if this meant the military had informed the government about the policy change, Buckler would not confirm that.

"I will not speak about operational matters," she repeated.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper did not address the issue during a speech to supporters in Ottawa late Friday afternoon, although he did briefly mention the Manley report, which was released this week. Among several recommendations, the report by the blue ribbon panel called for the government to be more open with Canadians about the country's involvement in Afghanistan.

Harper did not say whether or not the Conservatives will follow its recommendations, which also called on Canada to press NATO for an additional 1,000 more troops for the mission.

Other Conservatives were also silent Friday about whether or not the military informed their top ministers about the change in policy -- but the Liberals say military officials were forthright with them.

Dion said that he and deputy leader Michael Ignatieff were informed that the military was not transferring prisoners to the Afghans when the pair visited Afghanistan earlier this month. Dion made the revelation when a reporter asked him directly if the military informed him of the policy change.

"Thank you for the question," Dion told the reporter, "Because this is one of the reasons why I never believed the story that (the Conservatives) were not aware. They had been informed of that, when we were in Afghanistan, the leader of the opposition had been informed of that."

The Liberals did not go public with the information -- which has now been made public in a court case -- because it was relayed at the time in a confidential briefing.

Although the Conservatives admitted Thursday that a change in policy had in fact taken place and federal lawyers have also said so in a court case, Defence Minister Peter MacKay accused Dion of being 'irresponsible' about speaking about the issue.

Critics said Friday that they are tired of the alleged Tory tactic of doubting the patriotism of anyone who questions the Conservative policies and actions when it comes to Afghanistan. In October and November, MacKay and other Tories suggested that those who raised the issue of prisoner abuse in Afghanistan were merely echoing Taliban propaganda.

Dion accused the Tories of only being interested in putting the best spin on a story that is an important political issue for Canadians. He said there are other reasons he doesn't believe that the military never informed the Tories.

"It's not credible for many reasons, but there is one I will mention right away," he said.

"The lawyer of the justice department was aware. The lawyer disclosed the information, so if the lawyer was aware, I guess the minister of justice was aware, and the prime minister was aware, too."

Justice Department lawyers revealed in a letter to human rights groups that the military stopped transferring prisoners to Afghan custody in early November -- after finding evidence of torture in an Afghan prison.

Back in November, Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier had said Canadian officials were concerned about a Taliban prisoner who alleged that he was tortured, but he did not mention that Canada had already halted prisoner transfers.

On Thursday, the prime minister's communications director told reporters that that was because a Canadian colonel in Afghanistan made the decision and no one in the military told the government.

Critics said that was hard to believe, and blasted the Tories for misleading the House of Commons and misleading Canadians.

"I think there's been a complete lack of candour (by the Tories)," Bob Rae, the foreign affairs critic for the Liberals, told CTV Newsnet's Mike Duffy Live on Thursday.

"The government knew what the decisions were on the ground. They must have been informed about them."

Critics say it's especially difficult to believe that the military would not have told the government about the change in policy because the issue of prisoner transfers was at the centre of a political firestorm at the time.

As late as the end of October, the Conservative government had questioned and even denied news reports that some prisoners captured by Canadians and turned over to the Afghans were abused. They suggested that the reports were unsubstantiated and part of a Taliban strategy.

Opposition politicians also said the silence over the policy change is another reason the government's conduct in Afghanistan shouldn't be trusted.

Comments are now closed for this story

Terry Hultquist
said

At any other time in our history ( WWI,WW2, Korea), if anyone divulged an operational decision by the military, they would be charged with treason, and if guilty, they would be hanged. The government must have had a reason for not making this public. I could see a reason for outrage if the government said that the transfer of detainees had stopped, and the military said that it hadn't, but to turn this around into some kind of grand conspiracy is outrageous, and Dion should be held accountable if it has compromised the security of our brave and courageous men and women, many who have given their lives, and their wives and parents still support this mission.
And what poster here that has been critical of the government, has the military experience, in the field, in Afghanistan, that has decided that the fact that the transfer of detainees was halted, was not a decision that was in the best interests of the soldiers in the field? The next time you see a Canadian soldier, do as I do...shake their hand, and thank them. I would not have lived to be a senior citizen without their sacrifice.

Mario
said

James - Where is your proof on the bribes? Sounds like Liberal spewing to me.

Allan - So, as a Liberalist, you needed to know these things? Explain...

Don - You don't happen to be on need-to-know basis of all operational matters, nor are the majority of Canadians.

Paul Hansen - Bingo

Freedom Lover - Get a grip on reality.

Dave - And the way that Dion is handling this shows his complete ineptitude with all things political.

Curt - Radical Right Wingers? Give up the fear mongering.

Now that I've vented with some of the most absured comments, I am glad that the majority of the posters seem to be logical Canadians that understand how the world works, and that in times of war, certain discretions are needed. I for one am glad that every single detail of what we are doing isn't broadcasted for two reasons: The enemy doesn't know what we are up to, and the morons in the Liberal party have minimal "ammo" with which to attack our own troops.

Curt
said

Soo, the real Harper is surfacing�. You Radical Right Wingers out there need to WAKE UP! Your so-called government is lying to your face, and you are fine with that! What else has this conservative government lied to all Canadians about?? I guess the next question is who will take the fall this time for this governments incompetence? Will it be a member of the military that has questioned the governments policy

Andr� B�rub�
said

As a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces, I appreciate why military commanders do not want the enemy to know what happens to Taliban terrorists who are captured by our troops. It is evident that the Liberals and the NDP think that a soldier is prepared to go fight the enemy while his/her own government keep that same enemy informed of all the decisions taken by the high command, for the sake of "transparency". Well, I have news for them, a soldier will not be ready to sacrifice his life for a government that cares more about the fate of enemy soldiers than its own. All Canadians who care for our troops should demand absolute secrecy about operational matters. This is precisely why Mr. Dion admitted that he did not go public with the information because it was given to him a confidential briefing.

Moe
said

Day to day I see the meddling interference of left-wing morons allowing this country to go to rot. It appears to me that common sense has completely evaded the mindset of the shrill NDP, bumbling Liberals and the "give them all a hug" Greens. Thank God we have Mr. Harper in charge and I hope this stays this way for a long time. Canada deserves better than the other morons. Leave the people in the Army do their jobs.

Ottawa soldier
said

A lot of posters here claim that we soldiers deserve better. Ya we do, we deserve an opposition leader that does not play games at our expense. We deserve a defence critic that did not march with a terrorist organization. We deserve a PM who looks out for us and gets us the best tools to do our jobs. We deserve a national media that does not politicize and sensationalize everything we in the Forces do. We ask for the respect of our fellow Canadians.
To all the armchair generals, stop telling everyone what we need. Once you have walked a mile in our shoes, maybe, just maybe, you can tell everyone what we need. In the Forces we have a saying, Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one, but that doesn't mean I want to hear from yours!

DDJ
said

For all of those who can't stand Harper and his policies, please do something about it. The NDP and Bloc have voted against the Conservatives. The Liberals and the Liberal supporters must like what Harper is doing because they are keeping him in power. All this grandstanding about wrong direction and shameful actions means nothing when the Liberals sit back and let it happen. Maybe in fact it is the Liberals that we should be ashamed of for their actions and they are not even in power.

dale worsfold
said

we are dealing with a culture that condones torture. the only way they aren't going to have torture is if we go in and set up our own police force and government. are we ready to do that?

i support what our troops are trying to accomplish and they have it tough enough as is. stephane dion is an opportunist and will make stephen harper look bad at any cost.

RP
said

It is extremely dangerous to allow detainee information out when operating in a war zone. A slip in the Afghanistan theatre could put our soldiers at risk. Dion is trying to use operational judgements for political gain at the cost of our soldiers. Dion leave operation military direction to the soldiers risking their necks for you. They have the expertise you don't.

retired soldier
said

As a vet, I can say this conclusively from experience: Corporate interests influence foreign policy to achieve economic ends - In this case it is energy investments in the region - The politicians do what they are told by people who fund campaigns, and young men and women die to protect investments. The armchair warrior who "supports the troops" from their living rooms gets to feel all cowboy about him or herself, while brave young men die to protect the investment interests of the ruling class. In my book, "supporting invasion and occupation of a foreign country" equals "get a library card and educate yourself on the true complexities of foreign policy matters." There has been s a natural gas pipeline planned through the region our troops occupy for years, there is oil in Iraq and Iran, and oh yeah, Muslim extremist make a great scapegoat as our economy crumbles and the world runs low on gas. Education is the answer not yellow ribbons and simpleton, old testament, comic book morality.

How much do people really believe in a mission if the most they are willing to do to "support" it is put a yellow ribbon magnet on their bumper and puff out their chests and look tough when someone thinks that we shouldn't send our youth to kill and be killed. If you really support the troops - shut up or sign up!

Dave
said

I swear, if Harper was PERSONALLY torturing people, all of his little sheep from this board would still be saying such ignorant and dismissive comments as "much ado about nothing." This is a moral issue that FAR outweighs the sponsorship scandal, but I guess it proves the absolute moral VOID that is the CONservative party and its supporters.

Wayne
said

I think that there are certain issues that if they occur during a time of conflict (war) should not be addressed in a public forum as they endanger all parties involved and are of no use to the public. As an example if Dion knew earlier and was sworn to secrecy why is he discussing this now? And if other officials including the PMO knew and were sworn to secrecy then of course they should not be answering any questions from reporters so where is the issue here will someone tell me? Personally I think this whole issue is irrelevant and we have much more serious issues to deal with like how is Dion going to go along with an extension without appearing to do so.

Simon Ladell
said

So what's happening now? Have we begun operating a prison of our own in afghanistan? Are we no longer taking prisoners? If we're taking prisoners and holding them ourselves, why did the military claim this was impossible, earlier?

CP (former Canadian soldier)
said

It really doesn't matter what the truth of the matter is. With Dion's popularity sinking faster than the Titanic, he and his party will find any reason to vilify the current governements handling of a dangerous situation. One which I might add that his party got Canada into. It is time for him to shut up and show real support for our brave troops serving our country. As for Layton, I would sooner vote for the Pot party then the NDP. They have not had an original idea in years and spend their days slandering anybody who has anything positive to help Canads.

Chris
said

You have got to be kidding. Harper "lied" did he? Well, then, Mr. Dion, call an election! The fact is simple, Dion is more concerned about trashing the army than he is about actually praising them for putting themselves in harm's way. It's absolutely ridiculous and is conduct un-becoming a party leader. Shame.

DCR-Toronto
said

Those who are slamming the governement over this obviously have no clue how military works. It is not in the interest of the mission to tell the world what is going on! It could put many of our soldiers lives at risk and jeopardize the entire mission. There cannot be complete transparency in combat or the enemy knows our every move. Typical left wing crap. All we need to know is that the prisoners are not being handed over and tortured. Somethng that is a good thing, is being twisted once again by the loony left for political gain. No wonder Canada became a laughing stock under Liberal rule. They rule by polls, not by what is right!!!
Stop thinking you have the right to know what a General in Afghanistan says to his boss, or his soldiers. Pathetic snivvlers! And yes..I have military in my family and friends.

freedom lover
said

What did Harper and doltish ministers Bernier and MacKay know and when did they know it?

When will the Harper government stop playing political games that endanger Canadian lives?

When will Harper stop hiding behind the troops and instead protect the troops from becoming complicit in violations of the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of prisoners?

When will Harper show some courage?

Will the Harper government ever act in defense of Canadian values and interests?

Cheery Albertan
said

Ethical solutions for ethical times. When will the power base that controls Harper let him govern by what his public wants? When we stop permissing the signage of our soverenty into the NWO? How many signs do people need?

Paul Hansen
said

Just another effort by the Opposition and the media to undermine the government. Yawwwn...much ado about nothing. Time to move on.

Let the military run the mission.....
said

In a statement released Thursday, the Prime Minister's Office called the number of detainees and transfer of prisoners "operational matters."

"The government will not provide any comment on operational matters," said a PMO statement released Thursday.

Do we really want the media telling our government how to run a war? Do we want politicians running a war instead of the military?

I don't know about you but I've had it with this politically correct BS at every turn....we need a revolution in Canada to wake up the politically complacent and brainwashed so we can take back our country from the socialists who haven't a clue what they are doing other than making trouble.

Don
said

Come on Harper-crites. Tell me again how the tail wags the dog and that the military is doing the government's policy bidding. The Cons first said they didn't know the transfers had stopped, now they tell us they knew but deceived the Commons and Canadians and are now calling it an operational matter.
If Stephen Harper told me the sun came up in the East I would get a second opinion.

Dave in Surrey
said

Edward in Vancouver: The difference between us and the Taliban is we do care...

You may feel ok with lowering our standards to their level, but most Canadians do not...

Ray
said

The policy obviously is working. The prisoner transfers were stopped when torture was used by the Afghans on Taliban prisoner(s).
What's the hulaballo about?
Sounds like the more political chaff is thrown by opponents to the war occurs the more it ultimately plays into the Taliban's hands.
I see this "revelation" as cheap politicking on the backs of the soldiers who have made the supreme sacrifice.
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves!

Observerer
said

This is a small crisis in a very big war. I support giving the afghans their detainees as they are a sovereign nation and once we leave afghanistan they will handle their detainees as they see fit anyways. We are so stuck up in the western world to believe everyone should follow our very modern standards, we have no idea of the realities of other cultures and societies. A poll came out showing that almost 50% of liberal voters would support an extension of the war if manley reports conditions are met. Observers have said that if Dion didnt accept manley report then it would lead to a large spilit within the party. This almost guarentees we are in afghanistan for the long haul. Lets do our work countrymen.

raj
said

This war is continually under such scrutiny. I think we know too much. Can you imagine if this were world war one or two? what would that have been like.
I think most of these things, they are media driven. sadly, this is true. The media get a hold of one story, and they don't let it go. Dion knew before he went. But if telling all puts our soldiers in any danger at all, I say , keep quiet We don't need to know everything.

Mike from Canada
said

Craig wrote:

" Who in their right mind would believe that Canadians, let alone the Canadian government, would commit torture or allow the torture of prisoners?"

I hate to say it...but we already committed torture...in Somolia...

Edward in Vancouver
said

I don't even see why this is an issue. I as a Canadian, (and am not a lone voice on his issue) really don't care what happens to Taliban insurgents once they are handed over to Afghan officials. I really cannot believe that the opposition could possibly rally behind this non-issue.

Paul out West
said

As Mr. Manley said the Conservative Government led by Mr. Harper has botched the Afghanistan file and they obviously continue to botch it and at the expense of young lives. Time to get out as "fighter" and become diplomats, which has always been Canada's strong suit prior to the Conservatives.

Mike from Canada
said

Our prisoner procedures should be an operational security (OPSEC)issue...but our prisoner policy should be overt and public, as that is what the Geneva Convention requires for PW's. In other words...how we take prisoners, how we identify them as combatants, how we seperate and move them, how we disarms them and debrief them, and how and where we house them should be guarded as an OPSEC issue...but I see nothing wrong in stating Canadian Forces have killed four insurgents, wounded three, and taken 12 as prisoner as a result of a recent battle in Khandahar Province. The pure fact that we have prisoners in our custody is not an OPSEC issue, or that we take prisoners for that matter. I am fairly confident the Taliban already know that, and that they would rather be in Canadian custody, than executed by the Afghan Forces without trial. Of course...we could stop taking prisoners all together, and just let the Host Nation take them...

Len
said

So, if we aren't turning the prisoners over to the Afghans, where are they? Are we holding them, if so, don't they have some rights. Did we turn them over to the forces from another NATO country, do we have non-torture agreements with whoever is holding them.

Surely, how we handle prisoners is not something we are so ashamed of, that we won't tell anyone about it.

Shane Prpich
said

Whenever the "Warmongers" are questioned on their actions and ideals they pull up the good ole *Support our Troops* rhetoric. The mission in Afghanistan and the Canadian Government actions have no perspective or moral boundries. Face the facts "Warmongers" the only way to solve problems is through humanity efforts not military force, torture and the veil of secrecy.

Kevin
said

Now the oppostion is upset because we have stopped doing something they did not like. Hey Dion the original agreement was signed when you were in power, then you started to whine about it. I am so sick of the Liberals and NDP complaining about this mission.
For the first time in 22 years I feel that I have a PM that actually cares about me as a military member.
The NDP was mad that JTF took prisoner in 2002, and MR Dion was in government when we were sent to war, with out protesting about being sent into combat,in fact he was speaking out saying it must be done.
Do I agree with all the decisions of the current PM, not at all. But we are allowed to at least this one does not make me sick.

Ken
said

So, we had the US on a torture watch list... until it was discovered. Then it was "nope, nope... we're re-writing that. Nothing to see here! move along!", and now we're getting the same utter dismissal now that Harper has been busted on having full knowledge of detainee torture, and we're getting the same thing - cover ups, backpeddling, and deny, deny, deny. This government is beyond disgraceful.

Dave in Surrey
said

Weak Government is destroying Canada... Who would have thought Harper could do so much damage to Canada in a minority and in such little time...

Mr Dion, please end this soon...

Allan Eizinas
said

Look for the Harperites to now explain that they did indeed know for months but for �national security� reasons and to protect the Canadian soldiers and the Canadian public, they did not disclose those facts.

Perhaps they can now blame Dion and Iggy (and maybe Layton and Gilles) for not disclosing that information when they became aware.

It will be interesting to see if Harper will do this next Fred Astaire tap dance or send out one of his minions to be sacrificed.

MRM
said

Since when did Bob Rae become an expert on military matters or even foreign affairs matters? As someone with 26 years experience in the Army I can tell you that the fact of the matter is that there are real and legitimate reasons for not publicizing policies concerning the handling of POWs. They all are directly connected with saving soldiers lives. After hearing Mr. Rae's comments one can only conclude that he is either completely inept on military matters or just doesn't care about the safety of our troops. Either way he is not competent enough to be representing the Liberal Party on these types of matters.

Roger T
said

Our Gov't is a disgrace. Maybe, before our PM attacks other nations on Human Rights, he should step back and think before he speaks. We have human rights issues within our own country and he's worried about other nations problems.

Didn't our PM tell other nations they need to be transparent on Human Rights issue? So what happened to our Gov't?

James
said

The actual point of the matter is that the Taliban just bribes the guards to get back taliban prisoners who play dumb until after they are turned over.

A CF Memeber
said

k, i dont understand at all, why is this turning out to be a bad thing? isnt it good that we arent transfering prisoners over to the afghans for torture? Canadians should never be informed about our operations overseas 'cause then it's used in politics and in the end it only ends up hurting our military.

Pat - Vancouver (ex-soldier)
said

This tactic of insulating Harper from responsibility is torn from the pages of Bush's Republican handbook where everybody else is blamed because Bush simply was not told about anything relating to national security. It is shocking how conservative gov'ts work. If indeed the real culprit is the colonel in Afghanistan then that colonel needs to answer some questions. Mr Colonel, your gov't is laying this on YOU. You are hiding facts from all levels of gov't. The majority opposition is part of gov't.

Mich
said

What else is new with this government, all secretive and not very forthcoming to the Canadian people,
they should remember they were voted in by the people and for the people. Same issues---all sneaky like for North American union meetings too between Mexico Canada and USA. Same for letter they supposedly 'did not' get from Karlheinz Shrieber. I see a pattern here.
Lets have an honest and open government instead of a secretive angry one.

Bob
said

Detainees prisoners enemy combatants? Who knows, The NDP and their crowd would rather we give them a hug and let them go. Because god knows we can't keep them ourselves that would mean we would have to build prisoner of war camps, and they would have to be in Canada because The NDP say we can't trust our allies to treat them like they would.
Mr. Layton's constituency would be a good place to start.
The other option is a no prisoners taken policy, oops can't do that either it goes against Mr. Layton's image of our armed forces as peace keepers.
It's time for Mr. Layton and a few dozen of these deskjockys peace activists to come out from behind their desks if only for a week and see what is really happens in Afghanistan, and I don't mean sitting inside the wire go for a walk outside spend a couple of days with the people.

Chris Rumbold
said

I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Isn't it a good thing that we stopped transferring Taleban prisoners to the Afghan authorities knowing that they might be tortured? Who gives a hoot who knew what when - the crux of the matter is these people aren't being tortured anymore. It seems to me whatever the Conservatives do they get blamed even when the outcome is good.

Jim
said

I really wish the Members of the Opposition could spend their energy on support for the troops, their job, and the tools necessary for the job, rather than the prisoners. But..I don't believe any member of the opposition has any experience as a Member of the Armed Forces.

Craig
said

Who in their right mind would believe that Canadians, let alone the Canadian government, would commit torture or allow the torture of prisoners?

Oh I'm sorry, most Liberals are not in their right mind at all.

Before this get's blown out of proportion, let's all use a little common sense.

Justin
said

You know your country and government must be working pretty well when this is the type of trivial stuff that makes headlines day after day.

I don't understand, we wanted them to stop the transfers. Shouldn't we be pleased about this?

Sean
said

People like Mr. Rae who have no experience about what is deemed operational and what is not should not be so quick to slam the government.

steve I. C.
said

What are feds up to? Look... I don't need to be briefed on everything going on in Afghanistan, but I do need to know that we are doing everything humane and we are actions are accountable, but this seems seedy and underhanded. It reflects our PM's personality, which seems to be seedy and underhanded. This is not the accountability and transparency Harper campaigned on.

Waldo
said

What a screw up. Now the code word is "Operational Matters". Our soldiers deserve better than to have such imbecile bosses.

Dick Varley
said

It is said "War is Hell." The opposition parties for political purposes make matters worse by insisting on receiving a blow by blow description of what is happening in Afghanistan. Canadian armed forces know the rules of engagement. It is not unreasonable for strategic reasons to not disclose actions being taken. The opposition praise our soldiers but seem to put little faith in them. the opposition is contributing to the hell going on in Afghanistan.

K Blake
said

The government won't speak to operational matters. I guess that is as good a cop out as any to justify keeping Canadians in the dark about the mission. Our government would not want to admit their citizens are enlightened after all that is a socalist term.

Charles
said

Rae is wrong - it is an operational matter where knowledge of this by Taliban could affect their strategy.

Derek
said

There's something fishy about this whole thing. Allegations of torture should have been taken seriously from the beginning.

Instead, "Angry Mr. Harper" decided to accuse his fellow Members of Parliament of supporting the taliban.

I'm not surprised the Ice Queen of the PMO Buckler continues to mislead Canadians.

Jason
said

I'm a strong supporter of the mission in Afghanistan, but Mr. Harper is hard to defend in this instance and so I won't. This is bad and he needs to be more transparent; otherwise those against the war are given more fuel to stoke their poorly thought out objections to the mission.

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