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Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance speaks to reporters about the investigation in Kandahar, Afghanistan, on Monday, March 2, 2009. Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance speaks to reporters about the investigation in Kandahar, Afghanistan, on Monday, March 2, 2009. A man checks a crater on Tuesday, Feb.24, 2009, caused by an explosion in the village of Saleha Afghanistan, that reportedly killed three children. (A.R. Khan / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Afghans chant slogans during a protest outside the provincial council office in Kandahar City, Afghanistan, Monday, Feb. 23, 2009.

Canada blames Taliban for Afghan children blast

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CTV News Video

CTV Newsnet: CP's Murray Brewster from Kandahar
There is a strong anti-Canadian sentiment in much of the region which may have fuelled outrage directed at the Canadian Forces after three children were killed by explosives late last month.
Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance on the results on the investigation
Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance says a joint investigation between the military and the Afghan Police has found the three Afghan children who died in Kandahar Province likely picked up and IED and while bringing it into the village, it exploded.
Kandahar Governor Tooryalai Wesa and Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance discuss the findings of the investigation
The governor of Kandahar is urging locals not pick up anything that looks like a weapon and instead bring it to the attention of security forces, while Brig-Gen Jon Vance explains how the military is fighting IED attacks.
CTV Newsnet: Omar Samad, Afghan Ambassador to Canada
Afghanistan's Ambassador to Canada says many Afghans believe that the Taliban insurgency can be defeated if a proper strategy is implemented.
CTV Newsnet: Maj-Gen. (Ret'd) Lewis MacKenzie, military analyst
A military analyst discusses whether NATO will ever be able to defeat the Afghan insurgency after the prime minister admitted on a U.S. news show that he did not believe this mission would succeed.

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Date: Mon. Mar. 2 2009 10:55 PM ET

The Canadian military is blaming the Taliban for an explosion last week which killed three Afghan children and stoked anti-Canadian fury among war-weary locals.

The bomb blast, which also injured a fourth child, was caused by munitions planted by the Taliban and not by explosives belonging to Canada, said Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance Monday.

Vance, the new commander of Canadian troops in Afghanistan, said analysis of shrapnel suggests the bomb was old and may have been leftover from the Soviet occupation of the 1980s.

The Taliban have been known to refashion old Soviet bombs into newer, deadlier IEDs.

"The burden of proof and experience in this part of the province places the likelihood of harming people with explosives squarely on the shoulders of the insurgency, not on the shoulders of Canadians," Vance said Monday.

After the Feb. 23 incident, which occurred in the village of Salehan about 15 kilometres west of Kandahar city, the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service and the Afghan National Police launched an investigation.

"Detailed tests were done. A site survey was done and eyewitness statements were taken," said Vance, adding that the children likely found the device in a field as they walked home from school.

Investigators believe the children brought the explosive back to their village, where it later detonated.

The incident sparked outrage among villagers, who said the blast was caused by an unexploded shell left behind by Canadian troops conducting target practice in the area. Other villagers accused the Canadians of firing rockets.

Villagers held a protest not long after the incident. They collected the bodies of the first two children killed, loaded them into a motorcycle sidecar and took them into downtown Kandahar to show the remains to reporters. The third child died later in hospital.

At the time, the Canadian military confirmed that its troops were carrying out artillery testing in the region. However, it said there are strict protocols for ensuring no explosives are left behind after such operations.

Vance said that the military will close the artillery range near Salehan out of respect for the victims' parents.

"We'll find another place to do our range work," he said.

Residents of Salehan are growing weary of ongoing armed conflict in the region. The village has a separate community for locals who have been maimed or handicapped, and many villagers have grown tired of the endless of incoming artillery rounds and the sound of small-arms fire.

The constant din is largely from Canadian troops conducting training and show-of-force exercises outside the village.

These operations often leave behind scrap metal, and collecting it for recycling can be a lucrative, though dangerous, endeavour for locals. The country is one of the most heavily mined areas in the world and is strewn with unexploded ordnance after decades of war.

In 2008, more than 82,000 anti-personnel mines and 900 anti-tank mines were cleared in Afghanistan, many of which were left behind in the 1980s, when the Soviets occupied the country, the United Nations says.

The international community has set 2013 as the date for the country to be mine-free, however the UN says the effort requires more funding.

With files from The Canadian Press


Comments are now closed for this story

No empty gesture yellow ribbon on my bumper
said

According to flip-flop Harper the insurgency cannot be defeated....so why keep this charade going?
Support the troops...bring em home.


Army of one
said

Odd isn't it that when a soldier dies the outpour of compassion and condolences from pro mission, magnetic yellow ribbon(empty gesture) on bumper crowd, is shall we say huge.
But these same posters don't seem to care one bit about these three kids who died!
Double standard?you bet.



Tono
said

Considering how the Afghan locals are quicker to blame the occupiers of their country, as opposed to blaming the Taliban, one can infer that they really don't want us there.


Old Sapper In Barrie
said

To Lost Cause - Can't you even be original and give an independent response instead of doing a parody of my response.

Try and be a little original, Lost Cause.

To suggest that the Support The Troops program is a Canadian military psyops/propaganda operation directed at the Canadian press and general public is ludicrous.

A morale support program, truly.

Husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, dependent children, other serving & retired CF members and the Canadian public at large sending messages of support, reading material, cases of Crystal Light & Kraft Dinner or whatever does not constitute a psyops/propaganda campaign directed against the Canadian public and press.

Obviously you don't know the meaning of morale.

By the way, you omitted one critical word vis-a-vis Prime Minister Harper's comment; I quote from the the CTV article title below: NATO can't beat Afghan insurgents alone: Harper.

Alone.

When the Afghan security apparatus is trained to a sufficiently professional standard and the citizens of Afghanistan recognize that the central and provincial governments actually care about the population then the insurgency will be won.

Please try to be a little more original in your next response instead of imitating me.


JP
said

As a retired Service man-
I am amazed-
Our Senior officer in the militray and our politicans are sound more and more Americans-
This WE NEVER DO WRONG attitude has to change- Canadians and Canada has to take responsabilty for there actions and stop pulling a PASS THE BUCK thing .



barry
said

in a way , harper might be correct .if pakistan continues to allow taliban presence along the afghan border , we cannot inflict a permanent defeat on the islamists .contrary to common belief , the soviets had defeated the muhajidin (by '86) using scorched earth tactics and helicopter/special forces.
reagan simply repayed the soviets(recall north vietnam shooting down u.s.craft with russian antiaicraft missiles/guns)by shipping the rebels old red eye surface to air missiles


TD in TO
said

To "Lost Cause" and other armchair generals: Quit knocking the efforts of our brave men and women of the Canadian Forces by spouting off that their efforts are for nothing. I'm sure if you or someone you know is over there right now you'd be singing another song and dance. To those who believe that this finding was "rigged" (ie: Nite Owl), if you do not know how investigations are run or military operations, specifically Artillery, then silence! Your ignorance only makes people who truly care and know the facts of these things angry and only adds to rebuttals such as mine being posted. Firstly, the Afghanis in question claimed we fired rockets.. we have no rocket capability save for anti-tank weapons. Those who know how the military works wrt ammunition can agree with me. Artillery is observed by other troops, or observers. Artillery is not fired blindly and bullets aren't thrown out like garbage, ever. Our troops and investigators know what they are doing and know the difference between an 81mm mortar round and the soviet 82mm mortar and even a 155mm artillery round and their impact signatures. To those who believe our soldiers are flower-carrying peace-keepers should give your heads a shake. We have been at war for 7 years, and if you even look at pictures and news clips of our troops, you will see that they are not wearing the "shoot me" blue UN helmets and carrying rifles..yes, rifles, the ones that spit lead and go "bang". To insult them by saying they are not warriors only gets us angry at your ignorance. To conclude, this kind of war takes time and bad media coverage only fuels the enemy and demoralizes us.


Geoff
said

This place is fast becoming canada's vietnam..Possibly harper should cut our losses and pull out.
It looks like we are not only taking a beating from the afgan soldiers but now they are out-doing us in propaganda.

---

Well first of all, we're there at the invitation of the UN so it's hardly a Vietnam style invasion. Second, they aren't "Afghan soldiers" killing Canadians. They're uneducated outcast thugs.


jay
said

I support the troops and what there doing.But it very clear were not wanted time to get out.

I called this right away.
said

I knew there'd be a phony whitewash story.

Wally from Montreal
said

Remember the quote from the movie Apocalypse Now, said by Brando at the end of the movie... but please before it happens remove the women and children ty...


Richard L. Provencher
said

Our media should be ashamed of themselves. Too often, they delight in anything negative about what is reported as truth, when, as in this case, the opposite is true. There seems to be such a rush to scoop the news, factual checks are disregarded. And who wins? Thank you Canadian troops who are trying so hard to do a great job in Afghanistan!


Kevin in Vancouver
said

It won't matter. The Afghans will still blame us.
If they want to live in peace and respect all human rights they will have to learn to fight for them. Until then I say leave them to the taliban, war lords, drug lords and Mullahs.

It is far cheaper and with no loss of Canadian life to just go in there every few months and blow up terrorist camps, bomb factories and labs.


GOOD TIMES
said

I said it right from the begining that those bombs were planted by the taliban.I did say they were not Canadians bombs, but guess what because we are in that area they are blameing our soldiers. They don't deserve what the Afgans are saying about them.

We should leave their country and then they will miss our men who tryed to help them.I hope this doesn't turn into another Sommlia remember what happen to the Aericans there, when the public turned on them they lose a Few dozen soldiers.


Rick in Calgary
said

They will still blame us and kill our kids in uniform with road-side bombs and other inhumane terror tactics no matter what!!!


JJ
said

Why am I not surprised that the Afghans send their children to look for scrap metal and them try to blame the Canadians for the loss of life. So much for their 'so called' caring for their children?!


Shame me twice
said

I believe the results of the Canadian Military enquiry and investigation is true. If the investigation and enquiry had been carried out by the RCMP I would not believe a word of it.


Peter inEdmonton
said

lost cause:
"Taliban, even if Stephen Harper himself yesterday declared that we are never going to win against this insurgency."

No. He didn't. Maybe if you started listening and reading properly instead of being so sure you know what's going on (when you know you don't) then there might be room for sincere debate. But there is no debate with someone who regards all information as propaganda when it suits them but treats dot-org anti-war misinformation as though it were golden.

Truth is we're ALL "anti-war" it's just that there are those of us who understand why it is necessary sometimes and those who *refuse* to understand buecause they refuse to understand the world (or because Harper is PM instead of one of the 5 liberals leaders who also backed the mission).


keith
said

This leaving the Afgan war is like holding a mad dog by the throat. You let him go (leave)and you know it's going to bite you or someone at sometime eventualy.
Sometimes it's better to hang on and deal with the scratches rather than deal with the bites.


Zorro
said

I knew the story was BS from its release. It has been my experience having served 25 years that Canada's military personnel rarely waste any bullets, artillery shells, clothing, twine, paperclips, pens etc given the decades of budget cutbacks. In fact we are the world's best cannibalizer's of non-serviceable equipment because we just never knew where the next acquisition dollar was coming from or how long it would last.


Dave NS
said

People have already made up their minds anyway. Seems there's a lot of people out there who will automatically blame the military because they can. And when the engineers come back and say it wasn't us, they call us liars. If the engineers had come back and said, "yeah it was us - we screwed up", they'd be jumping all over us like white on rice. So while common sense says "old munitions planted by the taliban? Yeah, I can see that happening..." the majority of people will jump all over the Canadian Forces anyway, calling us liars and such. So really? Why bother arguing with them? Canadian soldiers go to great and dangerous pains to make sure that every round, every ordinance is accounted for - it's hammered into us during training.

"I have no rounds, empty casings, or other ordinance in my possession, sir."

Doing a range sweep after you're done a shoot to account for every casing.

And in Afghanistan of all places? It's six months of training in Manitoba or Texas before they even get out there. Trust them, because really? They didn't leave the damn thing lying around.


Zhimmy
said

I agree with other writers: Scorn the Canadians that were so quick to condemn our troops. I would even go as far as calling their behavour TREASON! I agree again where are the Afghan's calling for the heads of the Taliban that killed our troops? We just keep cutting them cheques though so maybe they'll like us! Who freakin cares!


Afghans chant slogans in Kandahar City
said

I wonder if those protesters you see on this CTV photo will do so directed at the Taliban this time around. If they don’t logic should conclude those man, with fist in the air, are Taliban themselves showing off for the camera.

As for getting out of there, PM said on CNN that we are out in 2010.

No matter how you slice it, Taliban mentality do not believe in liberty do not believe in children going to school and learn, do no believe in women living a life without fear of being raped, victimized, beaten.

Taliban are in my 2 cent worth over the top, everything they stand for is irrelevant, outdated much of bunch of dinosaurs.


Lost Cause
said

To Old Sapper in Barrie - What the mainstream press fails to realize is that the "support the troops" war support community has a very effective psyops/propaganda machine and they are using it constantly against well intentioned people who have serious and intelligently framed questions about our military involvement in Afghanistan.

In my books, it's called disingenuous squelching and obnoxious derailing of rational discussion of the issues!

Calling open critical discussion of the Afghanistan mission "aiding and abetting the enemy" is just one of several similar tactics conducted by the war support community in the last several years in an attempt to influence Canadian public opinion back home in Canada.

The war support community knows know that the Canadian press will jump on this type of story like starving dogs on a bone, and the war support community will use any and all of these tactics in subsequent discussions that might have the side effect of people starting to wonder whether it's a good idea for Canada to be involved in this situation.

The Canadian Forces is running a counter insurgency operation against the Taliban and it's being done in the heart of the Taliban homeland. How effective that operation is, who knows, we've been there 7 years and things don't appear to be getting better. In some ways they appear to be getting considerably worse.

The war support community thinks the Taliban fear the Canadian forces enough that sooner or later they can rid Afghanistan of the Taliban, even if Stephen Harper himself yesterday declared that we are never going to win against this insurgency.


Ted
said

Get out of Afghanistan! They don't need us there and are not grateful. Leave them alone and contain out borders to prevent them entering our country. They know right from wrong and choose not to be a truthful nation. They all speak with a "forked tongue". Why are we tring to push our ideals on a people who have been at war since before Christ. Leave them alone and they will sink into the sands of time and come back as cab drivers...so they believe


Donny in Edmonton
said

It didn't take a genius to call this one. Shame on any of our own people who actually believed the stuff that was said earlier. Somehow "I told you so" just doesn't cut it this time.


Tori
said

I am glad to see that the media has reported the findings. Not a sensational story when you find out that our men and women were NOT responsible for leaving unexploded ordinance lying around.

I knew it could not have been from the Canadian training exercise. The Canadian military does not work that way.

Thanks for telling the truth.


Lost Cause
said

We're saying the Taliban is responsible. The Taliban will say it's us. This is the entire problem with what we're doing in Afghanistan in microcosm. That blame game can be applied all the way from the smallest tragedy to the biggest mass casualty disasters, and it will continue to be that way as long as we or the USA is there where we don't belong, poking the Afghans around and telling them how to live.

None of this is surprising. The point is that the Afghan people are sick of us.

Here's a telling quote:

"Quite frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency."

Anyone care to guess who said it? I'll give you a clue - his first name starts with a letter "S" and his last name starts with a letter "H".


tim
said

Afghans don't want us there. Why are we still there? Who are we to impose our values on another society. They aren't interested in our values... let's just get the heck out and leave them alone... I am sick to death of hearing of more Canadian soldiers dying. I am 45 years old and have never witnessed our Canadian troops being killed at these rates before, and I never want to witness it again! We are Peace Keepers, not warriors. Let's keep the focus on peace please.


Larry Archer.....Vancouver
said

Afghanistan is like the shoot-out at the "OK corral" except on a larger scale.

They've been murdering each other for generations and any attempt to bring them out of the dark ages or learn common sense is a wast of Canadian lives and money.


Sherry Katrina
said

I knew it! There's always more to the story - it's just embrassing that there were "Canadians" who were so quick to join the Taliban in denouncing our soldiers rather than sticking up for them and waiting for "the rest of the story"! Hopefully in the future those people will educate themselves first!


Old Sapper In Barrie
said

What the mainstream press fails to realize is that the Taliban have a very effective psyops/propaganda machine and they are being used by the Taliban.

In my books, it's called aiding and abetting the enemy!

This is just one of several similar operations conducted by the Taliban in the last three years to influence Canadian public opinion back home in Canada.

The Taliban know that the Canadian press will jump on this type of story like starving dogs on a bone and that the mainstream press in this country will headline any story that put the Canadian Armed Forces in a bad light.

The Canadian Forces is running the most effective counter insurgency operation against the Taliban and it's being done in the heart of the Taliban homeland.

The Taliban fear the Canadian Armed Forces and the sooner they can rid their selves of the Canadians the better chance they will have at winning this insurgency.

UBIQUE


CHAD
said

Nice to know we are the first ones blamed. Maybe just a thank you. But we cant even get that...


Doug BC
said

This investigation seems to confirm what both our military people,AND the local police had suggested in the first place.
While I agree that the rush to judgment by a lot of the locals was unfortunate and likely demoralizing to our troops,I think it would be prudent to cut them some slack too.
I wonder how we would have reacted if those had been our children.Or if we had to live with this violence in out country.Surely they must be growing weary after so many years.And,no doubt they expected a quicker end to their problems when NATO agreed to take this UN mission.
But accidents exactly like this have been happening there for a long time.I think Canada has been at the front of the pack when it comes to cleaning up old land mines and unexploded munitions.In fact,wasn't that an issue for the late Princess Dianna??
THis is a good cause we are involved in.Whether or not you beleieve NATO can help these people,I think we ALL should support the brave men and women who are trying so hard to leave the people of Afghanistan with the same choices as wetake for granted in Canada.The choice of who governs,and the right to basic human rights.
I agree.Many of the people of Afghanistan,the media,and of course those who oppose our involvment there were to quick,even happy to blame our troops.Even so,we need to avoid gloating or feeling smug here.There is a tough road ahead.
I have confidence in the men and women who are there on our behalf.I wish them well every day,and look forward to the day they come home safely.That,regardless of how NATO resolves this issue.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS


Em
said

And 4 million plus has been spent by our Military Police Complaints Commission on the Transfer of Afghan Detainees causing incredible grief to our soldiers and their families! An outrage! The Taliban are evil.
Death to Canada they chant! Look at the devastation they cause to their own people!


Mark in Ottawa
said

When we had troops in Germany, an artillery simulator failed to explode and went unnoticed until a kid found it and suffered an injury. The regiment to whom it had been issued did not see another pyrotechnic issued to them for another two years.

There are strict protocols in place. 10 rounds out, ten booms. If not, forty VERY nervous troops go out and look for the UXB and don't stop looking till it has been located and detonated. There is no screwing around.


Nite Owl
said

Is anyone really surprised by the results of the investigation? Results like these are common when people are allowed to investigate themselves. Even when the results are true they remain tainted. If self investigation is all it takes to eliminate wrongdoing by police and the military, not to mention most "professions" such as physicians and lawyers who investigate in house, we should apply these methods in our criminal courts. Crime would seem to disappear overnight. If you want my respect and not just that of fawning sycophants, level the playing field.


Cathy
said

What about all the roadside bombs that killed our Canadian soldiers?
What do those local villagers have to say about that?

The last paragraph in this article really bothers me...where is the dignity and respect for human life???




combat engineer
said

Surprise, Surprise. I called this as soon as i heard it. The locals would have been so proud of there kids if they had brought back the unitions, because of the money they could get for it. Bang... a change in plans, but still they can get money from the Canadians if they blame us. Too bad we believe in facts before payment. I have served two tours there. I remember blowing up old mortars laying all over the place and before the smoke was even gone the kids were trying to scoop up the remnants of the munitions. Guess how many times a day this same story plays out across that country.... the only differance is sometimes they don't explode. Get over it western media.


Mark -Vegreville, AB
said

Perhaps this example should be impressed upon the Afghan people as a reason to finally find peace in the region. If they stop trying to kill one another and negotiate with dialogue rather than artillery, the countryside can be cleaned up and children will not have to face such dangers.

That is probably an overly optimistic approach, but worth a try anyway.


Sandy
said

Playing the blame game, manipulating the general elaction. It can mean one thing, they are a democracy.


MontrealPaul
said

It is sad that many or most of those citizens, poor and ignorant and with no other means of information than word of mouth, will not hear of or believe these results, and will continue to hate these people (troops) who are leaving their own homes and families to help them.


Sue: Harper exporting Human Rights to Women
said

Glad too see Harper is standing by Obama in Afganistan.
Our Prime Minister has it right, Canada will export human rights to women and the world will be a better place for it.
The kid thing is a heart breaker.


CB
said

It clearly showed how much they appreciate the Canadian Troops who are there to DEFEND and HELP these people when they were screaming DEATH TO CANADA !
I agree with Joe........we need to be out of there.


tim
said

Please stop reporting the taliban propaganga. The taliban have killed more of their own innocent people than our soldiers ever will. If we dont take care of these freak religeous types, now, they'll invade us on a grand scale as soon as there organized. Finish the job quick and get out.


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said

This place is fast becoming canada's vietnam..Possibly harper should cut our losses and pull out.
It looks like we are not only taking a beating from the afgan soldiers but now they are out-doing us in propaganda.


Sick of the news in South Ontario
said

Just one look at the photo attached to this news item told me all I needed to know about this situation...anyone else see utter disbelief in the child as he looks up at the adult? This was absolutely staged and scripted!
I agree all the "Death to Canada" stuff...can we expect an apology? I won't be holding my breath!


Eric
said

Don from Ottawa: Perhaps our media, (and some politicians), could join in the apology, since there are many, (the type of people who always wear psychological 'Kick Me' signs around their necks), that rush to cry mea culpa over baseless accusations levied by our enemies against our troops.


Brooke Vaughan
said

Sorry but this was a BS story to beging with perpetrated by a Media with a blatant bend on this issue. Will the report and supporting documentation get the same amount of time in the various electronic and print media as the Death To Canada chants did? I think not.


Jan from Schreiber
said

And that is exactly what the local police chief had said when they went out and examined the fragments - It was an old soviet mortar. That was part of the original story back when this first hit the media.


Roadrobber
said

My initial take on this story when it first broke was that the villagers were looking for "compensation" which translates to money.


Joe
said

I think we should just get outta there...


Nancy - No money in blaming the Taliban
said

There is no money in blaming the taliban.
Just like here where the police get blamed for everything a crimminal does the police didn't do enough.


Ruth
said

I am not able to imagine the anguish people feel when innocent children are killed. Maybe Canadians weren't to blame, but misplaced anger and outcry are fairly understandable to me, under the circumstance of war.


Don from Ottawa
said

Now about all that "Death to Canada" stuff... I don't suppose we should hold our breath waiting for an apology.


A.G.
said

Being married to a military member, my partner called this one the minute she saw the initial report. It's all too easy to blame the Canadians on this one, especially when the Taliban can use it to their advantage.
Without the trust of the Afghans, nothing can even begin to control this already out of control situation, and propaganda is one of the biggest tools being used against us by the Taliban.


Devin
said

everyone jumped on it to much, the Afghans can't just start flipping out on someone else because there wasn't anyone else to blame.


Dave NS
said

Which makes sense, given how much unexploded ordinance from the 80s is kicking around in the dirt over there.


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