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Dr. Shelby Karpman,a medical supervisor, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010. Clay Guida, right, swings at Rafael Dos Anjos during a UFC  mixed martial arts match in Oakland, Calif., Saturday, Aug. 7, 2010. Guida won by submission in the third round. (AP / Jeff Chiu) Dr. Shelby Karpman,a medical supervisor, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010. MMA

Mixed martial arts ban 'would take sport underground'

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Canada AM: Dr. Shelby Karpman, MMA supervisor
A mixed martial arts medical supervisor says MMA fighting is not any rougher than hockey or other mainstream sports and banning the sport would take it underground, making it more dangerous.
CTV Toronto: Paul Bliss on the docs' MMA opposition
Ontario doctors think mixed martial arts should be banned, not legalized, but the government said it will be adopting New Jersey's rules for the fighting sport. Paul Bliss reports.

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Dr. Shelby Karpman,a medical supervisor, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010. Clay Guida, right, swings at Rafael Dos Anjos during a UFC  mixed martial arts match in Oakland, Calif., Saturday, Aug. 7, 2010. Guida won by submission in the third round. (AP / Jeff Chiu) Dr. Shelby Karpman,a medical supervisor, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010. MMA

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Dr. Shelby Karpman,a medical supervisor, appears on CTV's Canada AM on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010.

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Date: Thu. Aug. 26 2010 8:31 AM ET

A doctor who has supervised more than 200 mixed martial arts fights says his fellow doctors will accomplish nothing by trying to outlaw the controversial sport.

Dr. Shelby Karpman says banning MMA fights is not a solution, because the sport is so popular, the fights would continue regardless.

"The problem with banning MMA is that it would take the sport underground," Karpman told CTV's Canada AM Thursday from Edmonton.

"I don't think a ban would do anything to this sport; it's too mainstream and it generates too much money," he said.

With a ban, he argued, the fights would still go on, but wouldn't be medically supervised.

"You don't have paramedics at ringside; you don't have doctors at ringside. So if you want to talk about the number of injuries skyrocketing, this (ban) would be the recipe for it," he said.

On Wednesday, doctors gathered for the Canadian Medical Association's annual meeting voted in favour of calling for a ban on the combat sport that pits humans against one another in a caged ring.

Outgoing CMA president Dr. Anne Doig said it was the doctors' duty to speak out against the "deliberate violence" inherent in the sport. She said the doctors feel MMA is "an activity that leads to serious issues, including damage to people's brains."

"We are concerned when people engage in activities, the sole purpose of which is to pummel, kick, punch, scratch -- whatever methods they use, until either somebody is seriously hurt or injured, or somebody cries uncle and submits," Doig said.

MMA is a safe sport when properly supervised, Karpman contended, noting he's never seen anyone come close to dying in an MMA ring.

"From the number of incidents sustained, I don't think it's any more a rough sport than hockey or football," he said, adding that only a minority of fights end in a knockout or technical knockout.

Karpman noted that while hockey and football don't explicitly condone violence, "you'd never know it by watching the TV promotions, where the big hit in the fight is the name of the game."

Karpman said the best way to keep MMA fights safe is to sanction the matches and regulate them.

"I think, like with any sport, you work to make it safer," he said, noting that hockey and football have brought in lots of safeguards over the years, including bans on certain kinds of hits.

Mixed martial arts events are currently sanctioned in seven Canadian provinces. Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty recently announced the fights would be allowed in Canada's most populous province, beginning in 2011.

He said at the time of the announcement that while some may not like the sport, Ontarians wanted a choice and that his government was allowing that choice.

A spokesperson for Ontario's Ministry of Consumer Affairs told CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss on Wednesday the province welcomes the CMA's input but has no plans to reverse course on MMA events.

The spokesperson said the province would adopt the rules that are in place in New Jersey, which are the most widely followed regulations governing the sport in North America.

It's expected that UFC, the sport's flagship organization, will stage a large event in Toronto in the coming months. The event will likely draw thousands and will be held at either the Rogers Centre or the Air Canada Centre.

Strict medical and safety rules will be observed during the events to ensure that any injuries are dealt with immediately, UFC officials say.

Recent UFC fights in Montreal and Vancouver have packed hockey arenas in both cities. The UFC has long been attempting to break into lucrative Ontario's market.

With files from The Canadian Press and CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss

Comments are now closed for this story

Robert
said
0 0

Ban it. I like gear-crunching hits in football and a good boxing match too, but when the venue for a sport is a blood soaked cage, like it is in MMA, and the fighters regularly pound their opponents AFTER they're unconscious, we've gone too far. Having a blood-lust doesn't mean we should indulge it.


Les in MB
said
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I'm a fan. Many MMA pros came from collegiate wrestling, many came from traditional self-defense training like karate and judo, likely with their parents' support because to get to the elite level takes many years. My sons took Tae Kwon Do lessons to help them with schoolyard bullies our laws will not do anything about. The benefits? Increased self-confidence, increased self-discipline, and responsibility. They seemed to lose interest when they discovered girls...Here's the thing: these competitors are professional, understand the risks involved and are among the most highly trained athletes in the world. Even if they do not like their opponent, there is a great deal of respect for their skills. Ever seen that in a boxing ring? Nope!So if you are not in favor, don't buy a ticket or watch that channel on your tv. Since when does government have to regulate everything? Exercise your right to choose rather than your right to criticize. In the case of children watching violence, where are the parents when these shows are on? Oh I see, they're online blogging criticism at the government for not doing the parent's job. If they put the effort into banning let's say smoking or bullfighting, what do you think the end result would be?


reece
said
0 0

They should pound the day lights out of each other but not on my dime. Insurance is for unforseen events. When you enter a ring and see your opponent preparing to beat you down like a dog then I suspect that's forseeable and your claim under our health plans should be denied. I honestly couldnt care less if they beat each other down. They seem like the kinda people that need a beat down and I would do it myself but I may spill my beer.


Narin
said
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In the past, people had argued about which martial art is the best, depending on their preference that Karate, Aikido, Judo, Kick boxing, and so on is the real champion on fighting. So everyone had his own belief. But what is the truth of the real champion? Is that Karate or Kick boxing or something else? The questions left inconclusive answer. And now we have the truth, the UFC is true champion of all martial arts.


peter in MB
said
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I have trained in martial arts and have a black belt level. I have competed in the past in karate and tae kwon do and I see MMA as sloppy un-disciplined bar room brawling, So I choose not to watch it. However if other people enjoy watching MMA than that’s their right. I don’t care for hockey or NFL football ether which buy the way puts more players into the ER with head and spinal injuries every season than MMA has since it started. People who compete in Martial arts are skilled fighters and know the risks before they enter the ring.


Randy
said
0 0

I have watched mma fights since their inception, an I have noticed changes since the early mma boughts when it was totally bareknuckled, Banning will just push the octogon underground, an in the long run put suspision on other martial arts that make up the mixed fighting sport, Mma is not for the squeemish,an these men who battle train for years so its natural to compete in that sport, so it has to be referee'd accordingly by the governing body an those medical authorities at Octogon side


Lee
said
0 0

This so-called sport shouldn't even be called a sport. Its just two people bashing each other.It reminds me of Gladiators in Rome long ago.Only people who support this barbaric display are those who are in the ring, those who benefit from it money-wise, and those who are turned on by cruelty and violence. Oh and Prem. McGuinty who made it legal wants it to stay. His main motive is making money for the province and hopes the public are stupid enough to believe it is better to have this so called sport above ground than below. Let it go underground. Eventually someone will get seriously hurt whether above or below ground. The writing is on the wall. I agree with the Can. medical assoc.


Darryl
said
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Typical knee-jerk reaction from an organization that has 0 credibility and is nothing more than political grandstanding. What else are they going to 'ban'? bicycling? walking on the sidewalk? chewing gum? They don't have anyone's health in mind, all they care about is politics and pounding their chests. Maybe we should ban the CMA and all lobbyists from Canada. The CMA cannot make the laws they can only make recommendations. and If all the government levels (provincial, federal, municipal) were smart they would ignore these uninformed "doctors"


M-R
said
0 0

These fighters give up so much to able to do something they love and to take that away from them would be wrong. The arguments these doctors have don't even add up, boxing is all about blows to the head at least in mma there's a ref right there to stop the fight as soon as the fighter cannot defend themselves. MMA isn't just for the people that watch it it also gives revenue to the cities that host the events, that's something many can benifit from.


Mark
said
0 0

One step away from gladiators fighting to the death. This is not a sport! It's sanctioned violence. I suppose the authorities will finally ban it after someone is killed. And I thought humanity was progressing.


Walter
said
0 0

It's obvious the CMA did not read the rules of Mix Martial Arts that there is no scratching aloud in the sport. Beside's the point, if it's such a concern to the CMA,then why is it fighting is not banned in hockey which has ended the players careers?


Luc from Carp
said
0 0

How typical!Don't like MMA? Ban it. Don't like guns? Ban them. Don't like Pit Bulls? Ban them. Kids flying kites bothering your time at the park? Ban kites.What's next? Motorcycles? Fast cars?? Loud music???


MikeInBC
said
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Kris that's a really good idea. Let's ban smoking!


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
0 0

Yes well, let's not forget to ban hockey, auto racing, football, long distance running and any other sport where people have ever been injured... The good NANNY STATE can't let us go on hurting ourselves now can she...


Mike Waterloo
said
0 0

Why are the docs grand standing over brawling?I don't see them wanting to ban abortions, or some of the drugs they push, or alcohol.Let people decide for themselves what they want without the decree from the almighty Big Brother with doctors already in their pay.Doctors are hypocrites as much as the state.


Kojak
said
0 0

BAN IT AND FORGET IT! I cannot believe what beer-guzzling neanderthals think and believe these days. Promote violence to our youth and communities is unacceptable this is NOT Canadian Sports.


Older but Wiser
said
0 0

I used to be involved in MMA, and I used to love it. Then I lived in Nepal, and that completely changed my perspective. I became horrified that, while people in third world countries don't have toilets, clean water, or comfortable beds, we in "developed" countries have so much money, we can waste it on training to hurt each other. Shortly after I returned, I went to watch a UFC event. The irony made me sick - I left early, and haven't watched the UFC since. I am no longer involved in MMA sports - the bottom line is, it wasn't good for my soul.


Kris D.
said
0 0

Exactly, Prof. Pye Chartt.“kick, punch, scratch(?) – “whatever” methods they use.” – Thanks, Doc, for confirming that you really don’t know the rules of the sport or what you’re talking about. I’m pretty sure cigarettes kill tens of thousands of people every year, why don’t you lobby to ban those? You’d think someone who could be the head of the CMA would at least do some research on the topic before spouting nonsense.


ProMMA
said
0 0

I don't understand how MMA has been banned in Ontario up until now. People protest the sport because of its violence yet there hasn't been one death in UFC but we won't hesitate to send our troops to the mine fields in the middle east, and what about Canada's favourite pasttime? Hockey is much more dangerous, it doesn't even compare. Then there was the argument that the sport is immoral. Can I ask you when the last time you took your family to the local strip club? I can't watch a live contact sport in Toronto but I can surely take advantage of broken home girls? That doesn't make any sense either. The point is if you don't like the sport, don't watch it. Don't ruin the chance for the millions of fans who would love to watch a live competition.


Mike in ON
said
0 0

I've stated before that I'm not a MMA fan - that's to say that I don't watch it, but that's just exercising my right not to. I really find it funny that doctors are trying to get this sport banned because of the potential injuries - yet we heartily endorse sports like auto racing, where vehicles carrying flammable fuel take people to incredible speeds, surrounded by concrete walls. No...no possibility for injury there at all, right Mr. Villenueve? Mr. Earnhardt?. Or perhaps skiing, where people strap boards onto their feet, and hurtle down mountains, with no protective gear at all. Crashes? Nah, they'll never happen, right Mr. Brooker?

For those of you who have difficulty calling MMA a sport - well, what do you watch? Golf? Tell you what...let's have your favourite golf pro take a fitness test along any MMA athlete, and see who's in better physical condition.

Maybe we should just ensure that our kids grow up surrounded by bubble-wrap and pillows...


Prof. Pye Chartt
said
0 0

I've always believed that "issues" should be evaluated on the basis of practical FACTS. While several provinces, most recently and notably, Ontario, have performed their due diligence on the sport through the intelligent evaluation of readily available FACTS (MMA/UFC has a significant track record to be formally examined), it appears that ill-informed or uninformed BELIEFS and PERCEPTIONS, instead, constitute the basis for opposing the sport. Unfortunate. We're witnessing a silly, distracting match between the knowing and the unknowing. The CMA needs to start addressing the actual FACTS and quit pontificating and theorizing about feared medical threats (ie. rampant "brain damage") that don't play a role in the indisputable reality of MMA/UFC.


peter in MB
said
0 0

If you have never driven a car don’t tell people how they should drive. I have trained in martial arts and have a black belt level, anyone who has never trained in some form of Martial arts (I.E. these Doctors) has no clue what they are talking about.


Syl
said
0 0

Any decent human can see that this should be banned and any participation in this activity should be treated as a criminal offence.


lady o
said
0 0

Poor men with raging testosterone everywhere. All the aggressive past times (fighting, hunting, etc) get critisized by all the weenies with no back bones. Sorry that this breed of man can't conform and find it interesting to drink tea, and talk about the new purple shirt they bought from H & M. I understand that your sensitive and compassionate, but have some compassion for the real men out there that truly enjoy this sport. My 3 year old was born loving to wrestle, it's just part of the male breed. Gawd. P.S. I have a very intelligent huband who is well liked by all and knowledgable in many fields. University degree. He loves UFC and is not considered a low life by anyone, so don't give me that bologne either.


SDR
said
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Whether you belive the sport of MMA (mixed martial arts) is barbaric or not, there should not be a debate on banning it without a study or data being provided to corroberate the claims being made - especially from a group of Doctors! The head of this group has admitted that they have never actually watched an MMA match let alone have any understanding of the rules in place to protect the participants. There are many sports, legal in Canada, that are far more likely to result in injury or death. Rodeo, car and motorcycle racing, hockey, football, and boxing to name a few. I don't see this debate as relevant unless the research has been conducted into the ACTUAL effect of the sport on it's participant and not the PERCIEVED effect from a group pf people who don't actually know anything about how the sport is governed.


Fallin apart
said
0 0

What is really sad about this "sport" is that there are so many willing to watch it.
Kind of like throwing christian to the lions or gladiators fight to the death just before the fall of the Roman empire.
Civilization as we know it is failing us..fast.


Kay
said
0 0

Aww, let 'em pound away at each other ... NO SENSE - NO FEELING !!



Natasha
said
0 0

Kick punch and scratch?? I've been training in Martial Arts for years from Karate to Mauy Thai and no where in there was there any scratching unless it was by accident. What absolute ignorance and bandwagoning. Do these so called educated people even understand the committment and dedication to training that these athletes have? Its absolutely ridiculous to know that more head and neck injuries occur in hockey, but people take issue with MMA. Get the facts before you lable it as barbaric. To me, seeing two bucket heads on ice trying to swing at each other without and discipline is more dangerous.


CraigW
said
0 0

Let's not ban something because it may go underground? By that logic we should probably be legalizing things like pedophelia, dog fighting and children smoking.


Chris
said
0 0

As someone who has loved MMA and UFC going back to 1993, it's still pretty sad we live in a judgemental society over a topic like MMA that has so many people with an opinion on it that know next to nothing about it.What exactly are these doctors trying to do by banning one of the fastest growing sports in the world? Do they want to send the message that they want to keep athletes safe and not have them participate in contact events?Last I checked, every sport and I mean EVERY sport has some sort of contact attached to it, and with it the risk of injury. Making the moronic claim that MMA is likely more dangerous, shows how little some people actually know about not just MMA but naturally the UFC. Unlike what some want to perceive MMA as, no fighter gets signed or gets in the octagon without medical clearance. Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta have always maintained that while UFC is a dangerous sport on the outside, they NEVER put anyone in a fight who does not mean the medical qualifications fit to do so.The fatality fate in MMA has been next to none because of this. Yes injuries happen, but guess what injuries happen in hockey, football, baseball and any other sport that maintains physicality because it's all part of the sport.Look up the fatality rates of professional wrestling or boxing and you would be disgusted, but yet I don't see these so called experts going after them?If you don't watch or understand MMA that's one thing, but citing an opinion based on ignorance and lack of education is something else. Get an education before judging something you know nothing about!


eddytoronto
said
0 0

Bread and Circuses a phrase used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through the mere satisfaction of the immediate, and the shallow requirements of a populace. The phrase also implies the erosion of education and ignorance for civic duty.


Jerry in Calgary
said
0 0

Its absolutely incredible how the expert opinion of many doctors would even be considered to be outweighed by the biased opinion of one doctor. Especially when the opinion of many doctors are in consideration of the safety and well being of all. This reaction by these mixed martial arts individuals threathning to "go underground" is typical and comparable to a little kid being told not to do something for his own wellfare and simply turning around and pouting, knowing full well tha thet child is incapable of seeing the greater picture. This public negative response from the medical communitty (good for them speaking out) must be very embarrassing for the provincial governments who in their lust for revenues and unwise decision making are now looking like fools. It looks good on their faces. Its always about the money and to hell with everything else....even the wellfare of those involved. What a discussting society we have become. Just like the old Roman days but without the lions. Maybe even the return of the lions in these 3 ring circuses may yet come to reality. Whatever happened to the concerns of parents regarding public violence? One way to send a message to our misguided elected governments is to boot them out of office by those people who care enough to make a statement. Just the very threat of being booted out of office may very well be enough to sway these misguided politicians into reversing their thinking about this whole matter. My vote is with the doctors on this one....not the politicians who stop at nothing to satisfy their lust for revenues, even at the risk of cuasing untold and permanent injuries to those who participate in such questionable "blood sports".


Dennis
said
0 0

Nothing I like better than seeing two cement-heads pounding the crap out of one another.


Anthony
said
0 0

So long as some people will be willing to watch and pay for this cruel nonsense, you can stop it. Reminds me, at least partly of NHL.


Den Den
said
0 0

Let it go underground and when they are in court for breaking the law then go to jail and you do this time and time again, then we'll see how many want to be involved with this sad excuse of what they want us to beleive is a sport.


Devil's Advocate
said
0 0

Just heard now Ontario is finally allowing MMA soon. Great news for fight fans; However, some of these doctors need to do their bloody homework! "Pummel , punch, kick, SCRATCH?!?!". Seriousely, I know that happens on occasion by accident, but this is MMA, not catfights! I am sick of seeing people in authority who aren't wise enough for their position. The last thing we should want is underground fight clubs, where people have died in the past as opposed to mainstream MMA where so far all I have heard for the worst is a fighter being made a cripple, and that is ultra-rare! Sure it's dangerous, but so is working an oil rig, or mining, or crab fishing, or... whatever. The world is dangerous, get over it!


beentheredonethat
said
0 0

Last time I checked there is no standing 8 counts or 3 time knock down rule in mma. So my question is for these so concerned doctors is why aren't you raise such concern for boxing.. Get a life and working making the health care system work or go cure cancer. It just a sport!


Gord
said
0 0

Its ugly and in my opinion not a sport and nothing more that brawling. However, I think banning it would just drive it underground,


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