Tories propose new watchdog to oversee parliament

The proposed legislation would put senators under the scrutiny of the same ethics officer as MPs, but both Conservative and Liberal senators say they prefer their own ethics watchdog. Sen. Segre Joyal suggests it is a matter of 'one house trying to dominate the other.'

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. May. 7 2009 10:48 PM ET

The Harper government introduced an act which would subject unelected senators to oversight from the same ethics officer who monitors the conduct of MPs.

Stephen Fletcher, minister of state for democratic reform, introduced the Senate Ethics Act Thursday. It calls for a single parliamentary ethics officer for both the Senate and House of Commons.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper tried to pass a similar measure in the Federal Accountability Act in 2006 but withdrew it because of opposition in the Liberal-dominated Senate.

Attempts by former prime ministers Jean Chretien and Paul Martin to create a single ethics regime were also rejected by the senate. Conservative and Liberal senators alike have long contended that a separate Senate ethics watchdog is necessary to maintain the independence of the upper chamber.

Currently, there are two ethics officers in Ottawa: one that oversees the House of Commons and one that oversees the Senate. The role of the Senate ethics officer was created on April 1, 2005.

Liberal Senator Serge Joyal said there's no need for ethics reform because the current system works well and has proven to be efficient.

Besides, in the Westminster system, Joyal said it is a constitutional principle that each house is required to control its own affairs and members. If the government were to adopt the new act, Canada would be the only country in the world that allows one house to control the ethics of the other, he added.

"I don't see the need to change all that just for the sake of one house trying to dominate the other," he told CTV Newsnet.

As the economy struggles and politicians are demanding employment insurance reform, Joyal said there are "many more pressing issues" that the government should be worried about.

Sources told The Canadian Press the Harper government also intends to reintroduce two bills, near the end of May, imposing an eight-year limit on senators' terms and requiring future senators to be elected near the end of the month.

Both measures were introduced twice before during Harper's first term but were never passed because of opposition from Liberal senators and a number of provinces that questioned their constitutionality.

Comments are now closed for this story

Linda in Vancouver
said

I have to respond to "Art" when he says most of the posters who favour Senate reform don't understand how our government works.I can't speak for everyone,but I do understand how it works.And I know it doesn't work very well.THAT'S THE POINT.And things that don't work very well NEED TO BE FIXED.Are we supposed to live with this lame system forever just because changes to the constitution are difficult and we're to afraid to rise to the challenge.Give me a break!!

The Senate is often referred to as a "house of sober second thought".But the way it is now,they don't do a lot of their own thinking.That's done by the leader of the party that appointed them.I've heard more than one senator speak about "party loyalty".That would never be uttered by someone deep in "sober second thought".

I will agree with Art on one point.It should not be Mr.Harper who does this.It should be both major parties and the Premiers.

Difficult?? Of course it will be difficult.We're not all stupid.But to use that as an excuse not to repair a flawed system is a simple cop out.The traditional Liberal way.

I will say this,not all of the Senators are fools.I've had decent exchanges with several of them.From both sides of the aisle.But I truly believe anyone who can defend the current Senate is not doing any real thinking about this.If the Senate is simply mirroring the views of their counterparts in Parliament,then they're a waste of time and money.

I challenge Mr.Ignatieff to take a firm position on Senate Reform.

I'm with Doug in BC.No to Senate Reform must equal no votes from the west.Fix it or scrap it and put the money to better use.

Dave in Kelowna
said

This whole thing reminds me of the story below...

"Forget the economy, the right attacks Obama over Dijon"

While the world is undergoing major structural changes the Harperites are shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. Idiots! Of course there should be financial and ethical oversight. The same one I live under every day. The law and a moral code.

Harper's just politickinng
said

This requires a constitutional change. To do so requires the approval of I believe 7 provinces that have at least 2/3 of Canada's population. Do you think that Quebec and the maritimes will want to dilute their power?

Ken
said

Harper trying to pass new ethics legislation?

Isn't this the same guy that violated his own fixed election dates, and saw nothing wrong with his own Conservative Party's in-and-out schemes?

Art
said

Comments by some of the earlier posters are a great example of why we need to have a course in civics in our schools. It is clear that many Canadians do not understand how our grovernment is structured and how it is suppose to operate including the checks and balances built into the government.

It is also clear that there is a lack of understanding of the Canadian constitution and how difficult it is to make changes to the structure of our government.

Harper can say all he wants about making changes to the senate. The fact is that it will be the provinces which ultimately have the say in changes to the constitution and I can't see most of the atlantic provinces being willing to make changes in the near future.

bren
said

Wow...are people ever uneducated. While i do not pretend to be the most informed person in the world I do KNOW this: Liberal senators have used every means at their disposal to block pieces of legislation, especially those that the liberal MPs wanted to block but were scared to because they did not have the cahonas to topple the government and force an election. They are also against an elected senate. So right now, after over a decade of Liberal governments, we are sufffering with an incredibly slow and ineffective system because Chretien and Martin stuffed the senate full of liberals, who0 of course remain until they turn 75 years of age, and are unelected.

You will notice a few things about PM harper's appointments to that office. One..they are younger then normal, and two..I suspect that most fo them favour an elected senate..such as Mike Duffy. Good for Harper. I hope he can get a few more appointed who will actually help pass a bill to have an elected senate in our future.Oh and PM Harper...thanks for continuing to support our trroops. That man has done more in a minority government in a couple of years then the liberals did in over a decade. Plus he has fixed our military, which was overcommitted and uderfunded by the Liberals. God Bless our troops and ..finally...a government that supports them

voting conservative
said

Good idea! but the libs wont go for this, even though Iggy say the conservatives are on probation.Drats we need an election

Doug BC
said

If Senator Serge Joyal thinks the current system works well he must have spent most of his life living on another planet.
The current Senate is a joke and an affront to democracy.As long as it remains in it's current form there will be no united Canada.
Please "Suze".Don't run all over "JJ in Victoria" about that post.It's ALL SENATORS who we need to watch over.Of course they would rather we didn't do it at all.While "JJ" may have have singled out Liberal Senators,the undeniable fact that Liberal MP's,and the Liberal Party in general are the obstacle to any Senate Reform.
I was a Liberal.I will NEVER vote for another Liberal until they get on board,and sign on to Senate Reform.And,while I woll continue to support the Conservatives as long as this injustice goes on,I will also point out that I would prefer a reform process that involves BOTH major parties.It SHOULD NOT be either a Conservative process or a Liberal process.It should be done while there is a minority parliament,so that ALL parties contribute to the process.
As was clearly stated in the article,this is NOT a Conservative idea.It was tried by both Paul Martin and Jean Chretien.
I urge ALL VOTERS in western Canada to resist any temptation to vote for any federal Liberal until they agree to some form of democracy in the Senate.I don't expect then to sign on to a Harper plan,just be a part of a process that makes us relevant in Canada.With our current Senate,we remain a slave to Ontario and Quebec.
To "Edmonton John",I suggest it is foolish for ANY PM to appoint Senators at all.They should be either appointed,or elected in the jurisdiction they are to represent.And no,our current Senate is NOT INDEPENDENT.

Constitutional Expert??
said

Given the knowledge Mr. Harper and the Conservatives have shown in regards to the constitution etc., they should be banned from touching it.

They have done nothing but mislead people and utilize buzz words to inflame people when it comes to anything with these matters. They have shown total incompetence and ignorance of our political system.

The biggest problem with the senate is when "elected" governments are irresponsible in their appointments. Mr. Harper has done nothing to change that, even when he had the opportunity to do so.

Seeing the light
said

Again� election on the Horizon� another promise by Harper, BIG SURPRISE� where's the transparent government he promised the last two elections? Can anyone tell me where is this transparent government? All I ever see or hear from is Harper, and when someone open's their mouth without his highness's permission� they disappear off the radar, that kind of sounds like Stalin's regime.

C'mon Harper, you need to come up with something better than that to reverse the downward spiral.

Dunny from Manotick
said

Why do we need to have separate ethics watchdogs? It seems that one high ethical standard administered by one ethics watchdog is a good idea, more simple, less expensive, etc. You would agree unless of course your ethics need to be questioned.

Edmonton John
said

Why do they insist on calling them "unelected senators"?

The use of the term 'unelected' is redundant. Of course senators are unelected, that's the way it should be, and for a darn good reason.

We need a responsible body with a long-term vision that is not answerable to the electorate. If they had to obey the will of the public in order to secure re-election, then all they would do is play party politics and look to the short-term.

As it is, when Harper stacks the senate with ignorant fools (albeit in response to Liberals stacking the senate with their slightly less ignorant fools), the wisdom and effectiveness of the senate is in question.

The problems with the senate will not be resolved by electing them, but by appointing them responsibly. Harper really blew it in the last go-round. That was beyond ridiculous.

As far as oversight goes, this is another stupid bill by the Harper government that will go nowhere and accomplish nothing except stirring up Harper's Reform base.

Independence is the first rule of the senate.

Wade Toronto: No More Buying Senate Seats
said

We have seen the Liberals use the senate to get Union and First Nations leaders to campaign for them on the promise of senate seats, elected senators would put an end to that. No more buying seats at election time.

Nancy - New Liberal Leader appoint Americans ??
said

Given what some would call extreme views of the new Liberal Leader who knows who he would appoint if he ever fot the chance American war hawks maybe?? Rules need to be put in place now to keep Canada the safe friendly place it is. We can't risk our future over backroom deals.

ARGH! Clean the House, and the Senate!
said

These Senators think and act as though they are above the law, the people and the government. Well I have news for them.... look out cause you are going to learn to tow the line just like everybody else.

I had a grandparent who was a Senator and all they would talk about was the lavish way they were treated wherever they went... the meals, the fanfare, the parties, the attention they received. Senators for the most part are a spoiled bunch of Liberal political appointees who need a BIG wake up call.

Suze
said

'JJ In Victoria' - Did you read the article at all?

"Conservative and Liberal senators alike have long contended that a separate Senate ethics watchdog is necessary to maintain the independence of the upper chamber. "

Now look back over your comment and realize that you just made a fool of yourself. The Conservatives oppose it too. They never said that they shouldn't have a watchdog, BOTH parties have just said that it should be a SEPARATE watchdog.

Please, READ the article before you arbitrarily jump all over the Liberals and make yourself look like a fool.

ex-Canadian
said

Legislation to ban the Senate would have been more attractive. Let's get rid of this dysfunctional anachronism once and for all. I wish Harper had a majority - if he had we would see this and more.

AH
said

Look stop paying attention to the Senate, and start creating better paying jobs. Were running out of time.While your at it stop brainwashing people and let people have their own point of view!

Gerald Skowronski
said

Hire me as the watchdog. I have years of work experience and would do a commendable job. I have just been laid off and it would be a step in the right direction having "watchdog" on my resume. I'm serious. Hire me. Watchdog for hire.

Ken - Calgary
said

Since even the Conservative members of the senate oppose this bill, it is obvious to anyone who has more than two active brain cells that this is just another useless political game by Harper - an attempt to further besmirch the senate and make them look unaccountable so that the whole country starts to see things his way. It's a hot button topic, and since he knows he can't win an election on his own record or his actual desired (right wing) platform, he has to play games with the minds of voters to get himself elected. It won't work. Canadians have already seen that the Conservatives are just not the right choice for this country, and it's time to hand the reigns back over to the Liberal party. Harper and his stupid little childish games are the reason why parliament has failed to work - the senate is NOT at fault.

Lloyd from BC
said

The Senate is paid by tax payers, who are they to dictate. It is time to terminate the Senate and put the money towards the homeless. Money better spent.

JJ in Victoria
said

Big surprise, the unelected liberal senators object to having anyone keep an eye on them having government employees cut down other people's trees. What a surprise. Unfortunately the only thing that can be done is to keep the liberals out of power so they can't appoint anymore of these 'entitled to their entitlement' types to the senate!

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