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'Technical' recession possible: Flaherty
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Sun. Nov. 23 2008 10:39 PM ET
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty predicts that Canada may be headed for a "technical recession" on projections that the country's economy will shrink both this quarter and the next.
Speaking Sunday on CTV's Question Period, Flaherty said he would announce plans to ward off a long-term recession in the economic update he is set to deliver on Thursday.
"We may well be in a technical recession the last quarter of this year and the first quarter of next year," Flaherty said. "It's quite possible that Canada will be below the line slightly in both of those quarters, which technically would be a recession."
Some economists define a recession as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. In the past, Flaherty has taken pains to avoid the word, only saying that Canada is not immune from the economic turbulence beyond its borders.
On Sunday, Flaherty said Ottawa may keep equalization payments to the provinces in line with the country's economic growth rate, as well as restricting growth in public sector salaries, to prevent a longer recession.
But when pressed on the issue of whether the government would run a deficit, Flaherty predicted that Canada would end the current fiscal year with a modest surplus.
He also said the government is planning to run a so-called operational surplus over the next two years, meaning the government would keep spending in line with revenue.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper echoed those sentiments while he was speaking at the close of the APEC summit in Lima, Peru.
Harper said the Canadian government is currently in a surplus and is not planning to run a deficit.
But he acknowledged that "there are occasions in which deficits are not only not necessarily bad, but in fact, they are essential."
Harper said he was open to the idea of injecting a large sum of government funds into the flailing economy over the short term, provided that any resulting deficit would be a short-term solution.
"We will only do that when we're convinced of two things," Harper said. "One is that any such government expenditure would obviously be effective, and the other is that we could engage in it in the short term without developing any long-term structural budget deficits."
Canada's parliamentary budget officer, Kevin Page, issued a report earlier this week that predicts a huge federal deficit if the economy continues to weaken.
Current conditions suggest a modest deficit of $4 billion next year and $1 billion the year after, Page said Sunday.
"If we see the economy weaker, and the forecasts are getting weaker, and we have contraction next year, we could be looking at a deficit as big as $14 billion," Page said during an interview on Question Period.
Page said temporary measures to stimulate the economy, in addition to the tax cuts the government has already rolled out, would send strong signals that the government is poised to avoid a long-term economic slide.
"I think the key principles of a good stimulus package, they need to be targeted, they need to be timely and they should probably be temporary," Page said.
Flaherty said in addition to maintaining the previously announced tax cuts, spending on infrastructure, which creates jobs, may be on the way.
"We're looking very carefully at ways in which we can get infrastructure funding out the door as quickly as possible," Flaherty said.
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Now we should be politically correct in paying homage to these feminists by dropping the "miss" as if that is somehow derogatory?? ..... It amazes me on how trivial the causes are that people will devote their life to. They obviously "Miss" the point to life.
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L.A.
said
At the time of the Great Depression social programs such as welfare, medicare, unemployment insurance were non existant. The pain of our pioneers was much greater than anything people now can imagine. People today have no connection to the hard realty of the great depression or of WWII that followed. The fact that Canada may face hard times should be cause for us to eliminate waste in government spending, reinforce our resolve to strengthen the country in areas where it has to lead the economy, and to realize that none of today's generation have known hunger, cold or financial hardship such as was experienced in our forefathers' lifetime. We can not create wealth without real products nor can we tax or spend our way out of debt. Canada is blessed with resource wealth, and intelligent and well educated people. But in the end it is up to the people to determine whether they create works and jobs themselves and do for themselves or if they expect the government to be the provider of everything.
Tom Hawley
said
You could not have been serious in your post.
Sure every person wants lower polution. Who wished for factory closures?
Our global crisis is in large due to the recent and over priced oil industry.
The only ones crying over the low price are the corporations.We as consumers welcome it.
I hope you can get an honest meal for your family.
Clear up those crying eyes so you can look for employment.
Shamaro
said
However, my opinion is that this is going to be a long hard recession that is going to knock the wind out of every portion of Canada's economy.
The world economy is going to suffer, however Canada's commodity based economy is going to be hit extremely hard the deeper this recession gets.
Dave in Surrey
said
You may not fully understand what I am going to say, but it is called personal responsibility in repaying the debts you have put onto others... My generation didn't put us into the Debt we are in today, but my generation has begun to pay back the debt our parents put upon us!!!
Harper took that ability away from us, because of the cries of the selfous people who only think about themself and not the future... And now we are going to put our children deeper into debt because of foolish moves by Harper/Flaherty... You may remember when they decided to cut the GST and every single economist said it is wrong, but to instead cut income taxes to help our low productivity... We received a useless consumption tax when our problem was productivity, Harper was hining poliically rather than doing the proper thing...
Robert Halifax
said
NOW it's coming as an excuse to lay people off, while the bosses of companies have their pockets full!
Bob in Harley
said
Don't be silly, stupid, of course they will once again put themselves first.
TaxMe, I'm Canadian
said
Eric
said
Larry I Onatio
said
Doug BC
said
TVic
said
kc in alberta
said
in a "technical recession"
is that something like being "a little bit pregnant"?
in in both cases the real point is we've obviously been scre#d and it's very likely that the people responsible don't care and won't suffer to the extent that we will...
Mo
said
Jay, Ottawa
said
How many of us knew this was coming? I changed jobs in April 2007 because I saw this coming and wanted to be ready. If you think this is the worst of it, check out what Trends Research sees down the road. They're predicting complete collapse in the US and it reverted to an undeveloped nation with tax revolts. What will we do then when our biggest trading partner is undeveloped.
Jay, Ottawa
said
You might want to check the facts there Lee. Harper cancelled the scheduled personal income tax cuts in favour of the GST cut did he not?
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
Jon in ottawa
said
Stephen Harper gave the economy a 6 billion dollar boost when he lowered the GST to 5 %. that was his stimulus package to help us weather this storm, if there is one. I haven't really seen any signs of one yet,The malls and restaurants are full, I can still borrow money and we all know stocks go up and down , so whats the big deal if you go to a Casino you have to be prepared to loose your money, guess every one should have bought GIC's which I have and pay 5% so while everyone else is loosing money I'm doing just fine with my 5 % increase. NOTE PEOPLE there is no easy way to get rich, how many people do you know that made it rich in the stock market? If there is so much money to be made why are these fund managers still working? Don't you think they would all be rich,
retired and sitting on a beach down south. Stop beleiving everything they tell you. In the mean time say good bye to your retirement. How conveinient it happened at the same time we are going to have a shortage of workers. Not anymore. People will have to work longer. Makes one think this could actually have been planned. Convince everyone to put there money in corporations then have them loose it. The rich get richer and scares everyone to keep working.
Harper's been spending like there's no tormorrow.
said
You're finished, Harper.
Biggest government spending ever. We can't afford Harper and his handouts for corporate cronies.
Chris Ont
said
Your scenario has one problem, every country cannot export more than they import. It's imposible, let alone if Canada adopted this policy would be economic suicide. Tarrifs would be slapped on everything.
For those that think that if another party was in power and this economic down turn wouldn't happen, everything was rosey at the end of March, when the surplus would have gone to pay down the debt by law, there would have been just the last 6 months revenue. But we would have paid more for everything and most likely been in a full blown recession by now. Remember it is easier to be a critic than a leader.
edd
said
Alberta Roger
said
But look at many now crying because price of oil is down our wealth and savings has dropped out of sight and what has happened to our jobs. Well people wake up this is what you wanted less polution and factories shutting down or they will be soon and every one is so happy right!
Just what do you people really want. I know what I want and that is my job back so I can put an honest meal on the table for my family.
ex-Canuck
said
Nick in Gatineau
said
Both deficit spending and creation is a sign that approved policy is based on functionning with a massive debt, even increasing it (the moment you have a deficit you increase your debt), whereas your deficit-debt ratio is 1-10. So if our debt is $ 400 billion, then the Harper govt. feels it is ok to run up a deficit of $ 40 Billion ? So how far is this govt. willing to go ? Spending on what ?
The infrastructure agreement that the G20 approved outlines spending for infrastructure that already exists. So the money will be spent uselessly.
So lie to us, run a deficit, increase our debt on projects that will never see the light...
My god that sounds conservative !!!
John E
said
Pip
said
My first question is, why should a government raise more money through taxes than is needed to run the government and have a small contingency fund? $10 billion is not a small contingency fund.
My second is, when will Canadians in general take responsibility for their own actions instead of expecting some sort of Big Brother government to do it for them? Too much government brings about dependence on that government, and a lack of personal responsibility, knowing that there is a publicly funded safety net for personal rash financial behavior.
Less government is better; how about trimming the fat, Mr. Harper? How about a cost-benefit analysis of every post in every ministry, doing one ministry per year? When feather-bed posts are eliminated, there would be a definite surplus - enough to satisfy any Liberal.
Lee in Calgary
said
Did government spending increase...yes on the above items plus a much needed increase in military spending. For many years the Liberal governments under funded the provinces and federal agencies while racking up large yearly surpluses so they could look like rock stars simply left huges shortages at ever level which at some point had to be corrected. Now it's time for prudence until we get through a not made in Canada financial downturn and I'd certainly rather have the current government managing it than a Liberal government.
Bobyourunkle
said
Eric
said
I hope that every single oil speculator is choking on every stinking penny they have made.
The only way to get this economy restarted is to get people back to work so they have money in their pockets. They have money, they will spend. When they spend, there is a demand, when there is a demand, factories build and hire more people. Bailing out big companies won't work unless they can sell their product and if consumers don't have the money, the product goes no where.
No point in blaming the government of today (Cons) or yesterday (Libs) there is no point. Point the finger at greedy people south of the border.
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
It bugs the pants off all the Liberal coconuts that PM Harper is now globally regarded as the guy who has an economic clue and an economic plan for his country. (He was the "popular" dude at the recent G20 summit in Washington.)
Spare me all the nonsense about Chretien & Martin (and their ARTIFICIAL surpluses, manufactured on the backs of taxpayers and the provinces). It's touching to see that Liberal guppies are reading their self-aggrandizing books in which these two political buzzards claim credit for every positive thing short of sunlight.
@ "Reece":
Though I'm impressed that you're still working diligently to re-invent the capitalist wheel (even though capitalism isn't the problem, as the financial meltdown that precipitated this economic downturn traces directly back to the manipulation of U.S. financial controls by Democratic and Republican politicians!), maybe it's time to give the boogeyman a rest.
Furthermore, to suggest that protectionism is some sort of worthy "strategy" demonstrates an acute lack of economic and historical understanding. Good luck painting that pig a pretty colour. (You don't know Obama as well as you think, and you're not kindred policy spirits. Sorry.)
Jim
said
A. Conda
said
Edmontonian
said
Deficits are only essential in the event this is viewed as an asset to a potential buyer of our entire financial system. It is fact that our Bank of Canada is dumping our gold or silver to Russia which follows the actions of every G7 central bank. What other assets is the government handing over to the EU that they may or may not be mentioning?
Layton B in Moncton NB
said
It's interesting that during the election Flaherty and Harper said that a recession wouldn't happen, and when Dion demanded to see some action on the economy, he was panicking. I'm thinking that we maybe should have technically elected someone else.
Patricia
said
Richard in Victoria
said
Give me and the rest of Canadians out there a break, and stop lying. Sugar coated dung will always taste like dung - Mr Flaherty, a 'spoon full of sugar' will not make the medicine go down any better.
David Lang
said
zwinky
said
Kevin Page is not elected and has no reason to lie, obfuscate, fabricate, gloss-over or otherwise "mis-state" the economic and budgetary forecast.
It is his job to present budget forecasts that are as accurate as possible.
This is aptly demonstrated by the fact that he does not use "black and white" numbers to descibe the future.
He presented a range of posible surplus and deficit numbers all based on the unknown "ifs" by which the economic tides might turn.
Being a politician who is almost exclusively focused on his own and his party's electoral future, Smilin' Jim Flaherty has plenty of reasons to fudge the truth and does not hesititate to do so when it suits him.
This has been amply proven by his past record as finance minister in Ontario.
I've said it before...I don't trust Harper, I don't trust Flaherty so I am conducting my affairs based on my own observations and those of individuals who don't have a reason to lie to me or a record of having done so in the past.
dmyster
said
as for the surplus of 16 billion or whatever it is.. that is peanuts to what the losses in the stock market are and going to be. Buy Gold and be prepared for the ride of your life. No finger pointing cause it is a waste of energy.
Mark, Victoria, BC
said
Joe the Canadian 2
said
We are weathering the storm because to sail out in some unknown direction would be very expensive but I realize libs like to do that. Tax and spend; tax and spend.
barryh
said
"technical" recession..the cons are making it up every day,how pathetic...do they actually have a plan or not?
Lets revisted this question in six months to see how far the cons have lied to us
Lloyd Cam
said
Kyle Rayner
said
Liberals put us in this position and the Conservatives are trying to pick up the mess and move forward. Its not exactly fair to blame the Government for everything. The Conservatives have been mum about the 'R' word because they are trying to keep Consumer confidence up.
The reality is the Government cannot fix everything that we the people- Consumers do. The reality in Canada is that many of us having been living beyond our means, and extending that lifestyle through a ridiculous Credit Card lifestyle that comes back to haunt everyone.
The Government didnt tell you to go and get that extra $25,000 Credit Card that you cant pay for anymore, the Government didnt tell you to borrow against the declining value of your home, and possibly this is where they failed.
Credit Cards and Banks should be facing much higher lending restrictions as the current model for lending has absolutely failed. Many of this Cards and Loans have been given out to people who could never afford to pay them back in the first place. That is criminal and it makes victims out of Taxpayers who live WITHIN their means.
I think people need to take a page out of FDR's playbook and realize WE are part of the problem. Irresponsible spending demands a responsible solution. Canada is not the United States and our economy is still in better shape. We are not living on a TV show.
Joe the Canadian
said
As for Liberals, as a proud member of the Liberal Party, I blame the executives for allowing Dion to remain in power and suffocating our party. It's like the perfect storm of failed leadership all around eh?
As for the comment about "weather the storm"...why can't we chart a course out of the storm rather than just take whatever nature throws at us...oh that's right, that would require some degree of intelligence by our "leaders."
Reece
said
Mercantilisim demands that a state should be exporting more goods than importing so that foreigners would have to pay the difference. Under that tenent, the only thing we should be importing are things that we can't build or produce ourselves.
Any business that doesn't add value added features to their exports should be punished. Call me a protectionist all you want, but Obama is starting to see the benifits of that system during a time where there is a significant trade deficit with the Chinese. The Chinese don't give a damn about your jobs when they are trying to keep their own - including the Communist Party officials who aren't looking too good today as their own market is starting to slide and slide it will...into oblivion.
funkright
said
Jay, Ottawa
said
James
said
Tom in Eastern Ontario
said
Reece
said
America's failure is Canada's failure and Flaherty does not seem to get it. We are NOT going to skirt a recession because we are going into a depression...that is my next prediction. I hate to toot my own horn but I've been bang on so far. I sold my shares in April saving a loss of 50% of my worth.
Flaherty is merely doing his job...he needs to give this false sense of optomism in hopes we'll spend money. This would only delay the inevitable as our output is grinding to a halt.
To those that want to blow your money on things you can't afford do so, don't insult people who want to be conservative with theirs. It's not the medias fault for reporting the truth.
Kim in Calgary
said
Dale
said
Josh in Ontario
said
Ann
said
Ryan from Calgary
said
Dave in Surrey
said
The basic fact is Canada had a 13 Billion surplus that Harper dwindled to nothing, leaving us ill prepared for the impending recession...
Conservatives Cancelled th building of much needed ships for the Coast Guard as there wasn't enough money, imagine 3 or 4 thousand people working at a dry dock would help? Imagine having 8 or 9 Billion in Surplus available to spend, how that would help the economy?
Chretien/Martin put us into a position to weather the storm, yet Harper squandered it...
RayL
said