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Conservative MP John Baird speaks to CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2008. Liberal environment critic David McGuinty speaks to CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2008. Nathan Cullen, the NDP's environment critic speaks to CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2008.

Liberal Green Shift would benefit oilsands: Baird

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Canada AM: John Baird shares his criticisms
Environmental policy has become a key election platform for all parties on the campaing trail. Baird told Canada AM the Liberal 'Green Shift' plan is not right for this country. He said the Conservatives will be international leaders in green policy over the next 10 years if they are elected.
Canada AM: Nathan Cullen, NDP enviornment critic, and David McGuinty, Liberal enviornment critic, on carbon policy
The NDP has preposed a cap-and-trade plan to reduce carbon emissions, while the Liberals say their 'Green Shift' plan will reduce both carbon emissions and taxes.

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Date: Tue. Sep. 16 2008 10:20 AM ET

The Liberals' "Green Shift" carbon tax plan may actually be welcomed by the oilsands industry because it would create a pay-and-pollute system, says Conservative MP John Baird.

Speaking to Canada AM on Tuesday, Baird said he believes the plan would allow major oilsands polluters to maintain the status quo.

"They might actually like the Green Shift because what they could do is just simply go on, business as usual, and pay a user fee to pollute our atmosphere. We don't think that cuts it," Baird said.

The Conservatives' "Turning the Corner" environmental plan, Baird said, would force big polluters to cut their emissions with an eventual 20 per cent reduction in carbon emissions.

He said it also mandates carbon capture and storage regulations, which would require industry to trap carbon emissions and store them deep underground before they are released to the environment -- something he said has never been done before in Canada.

The Tory plan also promises to reduce the excise tax on diesel fuel -- something critics fear could actually lead to an increase in diesel consumption and therefore higher greenhouse gas emissions.

Baird dismissed the criticism, saying most Canadian goods are transported by rail or truck -- both heavy users of diesel fuel -- and "that's not going to change any time soon."

He said taxpayers need to be protected amid global economic uncertainty and warned the Liberal plan is too risky and would punish middle-class families.

"I don't think in these uncertain times we want to take a chance on a $16 billion new tax. It just seems risky, not worth the risk. What I think we want to do is actually force the companies to reduce their harmful greenhouse gas emissions," Baird said.

Liberals fire back

Liberal environment critic David McGuinty fired back, saying no environmental groups have approved the Conservative plan, and that the Liberals' strategy is the only one that would both benefit consumers and protect the environment by shifting the tax burden to polluters.

"We're going to shift taxation away from the things we want more of - more income, more productivity, more savings, more investment," McGuinty told Canada AM.

"We want to decrease pollution, we want to decrease waste, we want to decrease greenhouse gases, that's why the Conference Board of Canada just 10 days ago said Canada needs a carbon tax and it needs it now."

NDP weighs in

Nathan Cullen, the NDP's environment critic, said both plans are flawed and only his party's plan for a carbon cap and trade system, and increased environmental efficiency standards, would reduce the impact on the environment and reduce prices at the pumps.

He told Canada AM the New Democrats would also bring in a federal commission to ensure Canadians are fairly treated by gas companies and price fluctuations are justified.

"There is collusion going on, there is all sorts of discrepancies and Canadians are getting hosed at the pumps," Cullen said.

He added: "The climate change issue, though, is absolutely front and centre and Canadians are wanting solutions. They've had failure from this Conservative government, failure from the previous Liberal government and we believe New Democrats need to have a kick at the can here to make sure we get back on track."

The comments come as Alberta prepares to release a strategic energy plan for the province.

Premier Ed Stelmach is also talking about the possibility of building more oil refineries.

Stelmach said the government is talking to economists and people in the energy sector on the possibility of new refineries, but he's also waiting to see what the federal party leaders have to say about the issue during the campaign.

Comments are now closed for this story

Hmmmm
said

Conservative plan is to cut emissions 20% by 2050. Roughly 20% of the oilsands have already been mined and with oil production being ramped up they might run out by 2050. Great timing!!! The Conservative plan is useless. Actually - all the various political party plans are useless. Feel sorry for the coming generations of Albertans that will live close to the wasteland becoming created.


Jack James - I will not be tricked
said

The Green Shift is about trying to Shift Green Party votes. Tricky.
What happened to the old Liberal Party???


CC-western Canada
said

Oil sands or not, the people of this country should NOT be taxed (punished) for heating their homes, driving their cars, using propane for a bbq, turning on their lights!!! This is ridiculous to me. And for you who say that "european countries do it". Look at a map. One of their countries is the size of Lake Winnipeg. This is Canada!!! I drive farther to work than there countries are big. Not everything that Europe does is right for Canada. You can bet that when they announce it, the Conservative Plan will be a lot more clear than this Green Shaft. And it won't tax us to death for trying to make ends meet! It is still a long way to the end of the election, and the Conservatives will have more big announcements.


Nancy Vancouver
said

One of the Scientists backing the Liberal plan got their own TV show back and may win some Liberal arts awards, but they don't do it because the plan is good.


Chris - Fredericton
said

OK..think about it for a minute.

Everyone remember Koyoto...while I certainly agree with the principles of the agreement the goals seem to have been a bit lofty. The Liberals have a record of promises here but they fail to deliver time & time again. The Green Shift sets tax goals not emission targets. Do you seriously think that the government is going to mail everyone a rebate check every year to make this revenue neutral?

Given the current economic times a new tax is definitely way too risky. Big business polluters are merely going to pass the costs to the consumer & those in the lowest income bracket who cannot affort to buy a new Hybrid or furnace will be the ones who suffer most.

Lets look at the realities of the situation. The libs seem tp be back at their promise anything to get elected but deliver on nothing.

I'm tired of the "hidden agenda' / Mulroney / Bush / broken promises talk....anyone remember that emissions under the Libs actually increased while they ratified Koyoto, how about the BILLION dollar gun registry (how much was that supposed to cost)...The sponsorship scandal???

And for our beloved Newf's I hope you listen carefully to what the real issues are not what Danny W. has to say. (He's a conservative by the way)


Ron L
said

The Cons must be worried for them to make such hilarious statements. They sound a little desperate. If they were happy with their campaign and their supposed majority, they'd be keeping their mouths shut and protecting their lead.

John Baird, if you really wanted to do something about global climate change, you'd keep all that hot air and bluster to yourself.




Red X
said

John Baird is distorting the green shift. The Conservative party uses the high of 2006 as a base year rather than the 1990 in Kyoto Accord which they are not honouring. Dion is the "Green" Leader compared to Harper. (note the hefty contributions from the price gouging Big Oil allies to the Conservatives)

The point of the green shift is to get businesses and consumers to change behaviour so they won't waste as much energy.

The benefit is the income taxs savings of 1 to 1.5% whereas the major producers of carbon will pay into the program of which the funds will go towards services and energy efficiency.


al from calgary
said

If Dion and the Liberals are serious about this green shaft then they should go all the way:

- every cent raised by these taxes goes back to the taxpayers
- no breaks for anyone, doesn't matter if your poor. a farmer. a trucker etc. you pollute you pay as the Liberals say
- too bad if some people can't afford the rise in cost as they will leave a greener planet for their kids and grandkids who will more than likely be living in tents as they won't be able to afford the costs of heating a home
- no more immigration as more people come into Canada the more our GHG goes up

My proposals are as dumb as the Green Shift as all it is,is a transfer of money as Mr Dion says those that pollute the most should pay the most. By the same token those who pay the most should get the most tax cuts...


PS there are also experts who say that global warming is a myth. It just depends on who you want to believe and I believe that it's a myth and just a sham to transfer money.


BillR
said

Cap and trade is a load of dung. It does not reduce greenhouse gas emmission at all. It just makes the people who don't want greenhouse gas curtailment to affect them, happy. It says, 'we can keep polluting but someone else who might pollute in future has agreed not to so we can use their quota of trees to offset our bad ways'. It doesn't say, we will reduce the amount we are polluting now.

We all agree that the amount of greenhouse gases we are emitting now is far too high. Cap and trade will not reduce current levels of greenhouse gas production. The NDP's plan and aspects of the Kyoto Accord are extremely flawed in this regard. Only plans that will result in the reduction in greenhouse gas emission will be of use. Cap says don't put out any more unless you make some agreement with another country or region. It does not say 'reduce emission'.


David Patte
said

The Sierra Club has graded the various parties on their carbon plans.

Bloc B
Conservative F+
Green A-
Liberal B+
NDP B

If you believe that the environment is an issue that must be adressed, vote anything but Conservative...


Whether you believe that taking action on global warming is important or not, reading the report would give you insight.


Raj
said

I will not voe for another tax. He isn't attacking; he is explaining, and it's time we listened. If, at this time when our economy is not great the oil sands shuts down, as taxes are high,who is going to keep the have not provinces in a life they are used to? Who?
Right now we have a premier that is working on carbon capture. We do not need another tax.


C02 is the devil
said

How are people and animals going to be taxed since we all exhale evil CO2?

I can't understand how people forget that the planet has been much warmer and much cooler before. What did that? Oh right, mr. sun....

I'm glad the sun plays no part in warming our planet, only C02.



james
said

The so-called "environmental experts" have long been known as advocating leftist political ideology and use questionable science to rationalize their support of a given "environmental strategy". Nothing more than junk science to support junk politics.

The "Green Shift" is nothing more than repackaged traditional Liberal tax and grab to direct money to selected special interest groups and advertising agencies in Quebec. Only a moron would believe there is any sincere intention by Dion to reduce taxes elsewhere as an off-set.

If Canadians are truly sincere about their environmental concerns then they will take the bus, reduce their waste, and take individual action to mitigate the impact on the environment without the need for a politician or "environmental group" to tell them what is right.

Political action should and must be directed at getting Canadians out of their cars, getting trucks off the roads, and begin electrifying the transportation systems like the Europeans did 50 years ago.

Too bad none of the parties are committed to using existing tax money to electrify the rail system, build high-speed trains between major urban centres, and spend on urban mass-transit. All of this would reduce the use of diesel, cars, and airplanes.

Such a party would have my vote.


A Different Davey Boy
said

Re: Davey Boy

The problem with the argument that the increased tax will be passed on is that it discounts competition in business. If one company decides to just pass the taxes on in higher prices, it opens the door for another company that is more environmentally friendly (and hence pays less taxes) to provide the product/service for less. Consumers win... environment wins.


iphone u
said

The liberal plan has no emission targets and is simply another tax to fuel their next election spending spree.
The Conservative plan has real action being done by the big polluters with carbon capture.
For every dollar taxed by the the libs, the consumer pays 4 dollars.


Dd
said

Doesn't cut it???? Baird...you're doing NOTHING!!!

That doesn't cut it.


Mary Ewen
said

Marcel writes,
This is very interesting from a Minister representing a Government who has done nothing on the environment since they have been office.
My response to that is,what did the Libs do after having 13 entire yrs. to make a difference?
We watched GHG's rise by over 30% under their reign!
And Dion must think Canadians are really naive to believe any tax,would be Revenue neutral.
He could at least be honestand tell us that prices on everything will be affected and will hurt the middle class the most.
There are not even any targets set for GHG reductions under his scheme.


Davey boy
said

Baird is right. Any fine or tax levied against big corporate polluters will be paid for by us, alowing polluters to continue with no reduction in green house emissions. When costs go up in any company, they don't swallow the cost, they pass that cost on to consumers. That's why every thing's so expensive. I can't believe some people are actually thinking of voting for higher taxes. That's just plain stupid.


John
said

To: What happened to Canadians?
I don't really see what the problem is with the Green Shift plan. I'm on board with you. If I pollute I should pay. If I continue to support polluters by buying their products, I should pay and they should pay. If I reduce pollution I should be rewarded. Many Canadians many not embrace the Green Shift plan now, but we'll have a plan similiar to it whatever party is in power whether we agree or not. Such a plan will be essential in a few years and Canadians will have no choice but to live with it. Energy conscience companies is where the economic wealth will migrate. My investments are already moved to stocks in these companies and there are big bucks to be made while doing good for our envirnoment. I don't see where Green shift is going to do anything but help me and the envirnoment. If anyone reads the plan I don't really see how they could be against it. However, if you listen to the politicians for your opinions you'll go merrily along in ignorant bliss.


Trent
said

Well anybody who thinks this is bad...It's not great but at least it puts a number on paper that they have to achieve! And it will not break their backs to get there.That's the most important thing plus it allows them to use their money to invest in more green ideas...


Lee in Clagary
said

...I believe the Green Shift is prone to misuse. Anytime you give a ton of money to a political party they become hooked and whenever they say revenue neutral I say where is the money coming from to pay for the folks that will run the program and the extra tax folks required to send us the money. All the revenue will not be returned to us directly. It will come in the form of tax credits and this means a big chunk of people like the working poor and seniors who already pay no federal taxes will be paying more to buy goods without receiving anything back....not the best solution during a slow down.


Jonathan
said

I thought that I understood Dion's Green Shift plan until I saw him explain it in an interview last night. It was very confusing. As I see it, all it will do is raise the price of everything and has no real targets for reductions and no penalities for those who pollute. It's just a tax that can be passed on to the consumer. The environment loses, the consumer loses, polluters stay the same, and the Liberal government ends up with all the money to spend on programs we don't need. The Conservative plan is not perfect, but at least there are targets to meet and penalities for those who chose not to comply - which will go to a technology fund that will help industries become greener and develop new technologies. A tax is not the way to go.


Marcel
said

This is very interesting from a Minister representing a Government who has done nothing on the environment since they have been office. All Mr. Baird can do is criticize the former government while the Liberal Party is presenting something that would help the environment.

What happened to Canadians?
said

This is just silly. There are experts in the field whose whole lives have been spent learning about these issues. Where is the intelligence in Canadians to simply "not agree" with them.
That's like going to the doctor finding out you have a cancer, and you disagree with him!Hey.. he is just a doctor why believe him!?!?!

The experts have all said the Liberals plan is the best...end of story...I never realised how ignorant/dumb/selfish Canadians were until I started reading posts concerning this topic. Yeah, there is logic!



Rick in AB
said

No matter how you slice it, another tax is another tax and despite all of the Liberals beaking off about it being nuetral, they have never followed through on one yet!!!

Two things need to happen to help the envronment.

1) Companies have to be forced to reduce greenhouse gasses. The company I work for is actually doing a lot to reach that goal, but could still do more. Until it hits their bottom line, they will not go all the way.

2)The forest is the earth's lungs and we, like a cancer are slowly cutting it to pieces. We need to preserve larger sections of forest and when we do log, the lumber companies should be forced to immediately and aggresively replant. Cutting should not be restarted for at least 40 to 50 years depending on growth rates.

Like I said, it takes a hit in the pocket book to get them to listen and since it will all trickle down to the consumer anyway, that in itself is a well defined user tax.


Brent
said

Maybe during the leaders' debates the two candidates advocating Stephane Dion for PM can clearly explain the Green Shift between them.


Kingston Mom
said

The NDP plan on the environment actually makes the most sense. I am not voting NDP, as the economy is my top issue. Besides, Canada contributes only 2% to the world's greenhouse gases, and if/when the USA decides that climate change is a problem and puts an environment program into place, we will likely go along with whatever they do anyway. Let's hope for Obama, as McCain is likely to do nothing.


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