Omnibus crime bill costs are 'sustainable': Nicholson

The justice minister says the bill's focus is on the victims of crime, as it is meant to better protect them. He also explains how the costs of the bill are sustainable, and the government is prepared to do whatever it takes.

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CTVNews.ca Staff

Date: Wed. Sep. 21 2011 9:05 AM ET

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson is adamant that the costs associated with a newly introduced omnibus crime bill are sustainable, though he admits they cannot be precisely projected at the outset.

The Conservative government tabled the bill in the House of Commons on Tuesday, seeking to move ahead with a set of sweeping criminal-justice system changes that it has been trying to implement for years.

Some of the proposed changes include ending the use of house arrest for many types of crime, allowing victims to participate in parole hearings and bringing in tougher penalties for violent young offenders. The bill would also introduce heftier penalties for people convicted of sexually abusing children, new mandatory minimum sentences for certain drug crimes and would force convicted felons to wait longer to be granted pardons.

On Wednesday, Nicholson said the changes are necessary and that Ottawa will ensure that the provinces can handle any increased costs that come with them.

"I can tell you that the costs are sustainable and we're giving increased money to the provinces to make sure that any additional costs are maintainable by them," Nicholson told CTV's Canada AM from Ottawa.

While Nicholson said it was difficult to predict exactly how much those costs will be, the justice minister said the costs to victims are just as significant.

"I appreciate that we are getting so many fiscal conservatives that are worried about this, but I tell them that the cost to victims is great and this is very sustainable. So it's going to work," Nicholson said.

Yet some critics say that the bill could cost taxpayers untold billions, though it may not make much of a dent in terms of crime prevention.

Kim Pate of the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies fears that some of the changes included in the omnibus bill will simply cause the costs of the justice system to swell to the point where they are no longer sustainable.

"Look at what's happening in the United States where states are going bankrupt now because they've been on this trajectory. Why are we heading that way?" Pate told CTV's Canada AM from Ottawa.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

anthony
said

Its about time!!!This law was long overdue,we are knowed as a safe haven to criminals.And the USA before stiffer laws ,their crime rate was nearly all double in all big cities.Violent crime ,street gang violence is way up.The people who approve this law is,tax payers,workers,and non drug users.The major opposition is the lawyer bar association,I'm sure their gonna miss those recurring criminals who wouldn t do jail time and pay the fee to the lawyers.,

Sustainable is NOT the answer
said

Nice try folks, but none of your comments so far come even close to providing answers to the concise, simple and honest questions I asked. Surely you wouldn't support this crime bill without having the facts, and anyone who would support such a movement without being able to answer these questions is foolishly placing a dangerously blind faith in this government. Let's skip any further lip service and misdirection away from what these bills do OK? Explain with some degree of knowledge a respectful answer. Oh, and as for your tiring rants about Cannabis Chartt. You can turn off the turntable, it seems your record on that opinion is as broken as the rest of your LP's.

Carissa
said

Thank you for trying to get the truth Seamus. I am going to show this clip to my civics class as a perfect example of a politician avoiding giving an answer and why people are turning away from politics.

Evan in Athabasca
said

You cannot have it 2 ways folks. "Liberal Rehabilitation" does not work, look at the recent kidnapping. Lock'em up!!

dead bunnie
said

Once again the cost will be hidden until we find out that half the money has been diverted to build more fancy toilet seats somewhere in the Muskoka.

Kevin Driver
said

To: Sustainable is NOT the answer The correct answer is doing what is right for the people of this country. People who commit violent crimes or who are drug dealers should be locked up. Some of the provisions from what I understand are not about deterents they are about what should happen to crimnals punishment. I guess if you dont break the law you dont have to worry about being locked up. Yes we will have to pay for it, I would rather pay a little bit more to keep scum off the streets, and from peddling dope to our kids then have them on house arrest. Or killing innocent people in a crossfire of their gang wars if they are here illeagally deport them, do not say oh you bad boy dont do that again .

Gorg
said

to Susutainable; we don't have an accurate cost of what the judicial revolving door policy or the "slap on the wrist" is costing either, whether it's in lives or property damage. Maybe it will be more costly under a Conservative government, but then that's what it takes to clean up a mess left behind by a previous government that implemented one like the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Which I cannot fully yet understand why juvenile perpetrators cannot be indentified publicly. At least if I or anyone else knew we could avoid or give wide berth to this person. Otherwise, this individual could be lurking anywhere in the neighbourhood or your backyard. Statistics may have indicated a downward trend in crime, but are any of us in a position to play a numbers game with lives? We have to start fixing it somewhere.

Red X
said

The Cons are good for the Security and Super Jail industry. The "War on Drugs" in the U$ is an example of wasted money.

b katz
said

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."- Abraham Lincoln Is it not clear, after 100 years of failed drug policy, based on hysteria, that these laws have created far more problems for Society... and solved NONE? I suppose it shall now be up to either the Supreme Court and the Charter OR Morgentaler-like jury-nullification, to rid us of these intrusive, immoral, expensive and counterproductive laws. BTW, I tend to support the rest of the legislation, focussing on VICTIMS who need better protection from career Victimizers... and not just in violent crimes either.

Tony
said

I will have to pay to keep prolific offenders in jail, or I will have to pay higher insurance when they are set free. Either way I'm paying. At least when offenders are in jail, there will be that many more days I won't be victim.

Thomas
said

Getting tough on crime, though I agree with it in principal, getting tough on punishment of crime is defintely a step backwards as a society that likes to think it self more enlighten. When it comes to Harper and his conservatives, I gringe, not knowing where they will stop and what hidden agenda may be driving them. It would be so easy to slip into a police state with mega prisons every where and the majority of citizens living in fear of the government, a nazi Germany nightmarishes vision if you will.

tom91
said

Forget about the cost. Lets ask ourselves why this is needed at all at a time of historically low crime rates. I've never heard anyone in my day to day life voice a concern about crime. It seems the politicians are creating and solving the panic at the same time. Citizens are more concerned with health care than this imagined problem of rampant and escalating crime in Canada.

For the ppl
said

The Harper Government has introduced "The Safe Streets and Communities Act" into Parliament. Essentially, making sentences longer, and adding many manditory minimum sentences, particularly for Cannabis drug crimes. This approach to crime is a proven failure. Manditory minimums will fill our prisons, create more hardened criminals, cost the taxpayers of Canada billions of dollars per year, and leave us no safer then we ever were. In fact, it will leave us less safe. Criminologist, lawyers and judges will tell you that this is a disaster for our justice system, our economy and our society. Therefore, we hereby call on the Government of Canada to prevent the passage of this "Safe Streets and Communities Act" into law. SIGN THE IPETITION: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/kill_harpers_crime_bill/IT FAILED IN THE U.S. WHY DO IT HERE?

Sceptical Conservative
said

As a conservative voter, I don't have a lot of problems with most of these bills, but I also realize that this is just the other side of the "security theatre" curtain that ALL governments love to play up; the liberals did it with their "gun control" bills (while realizing that their laws would do absolutely NOTHING to prevent criminals from illegally killing each other with illegal guns in the first place), and now the conservatives are doing it from the "lock them up and throw away the key" angle. It's going to cost the equivalent of 3 or 4 taxpayers' entire taxes to keep an extra body in prison, and without a scintilla of evidence that this does anything other than warehousing them. It doesn't DETER these crimes, because no-one who commits a crime seriously thinks they're going to get caught in the first place, and warehousing them afterwards doesn't give anyone any restitution. Force them to work off their sentence, and pay the proceeds to the ACTUAL victims, not the pretend victim (the "crown").

Debbie
said

Nicholson's response was a joke. The government is obliged to tell us, the taxpayer and their employer, how much this will cost. The Conservatives are acting like fools wasting money on this. Statistics clearly indicate that crime is down in this country. This crime bill is all about revenge and will do nothing to prevent crime. It's reactionary only. What has happened to the Conservative promise of a transparent and accountable government? Complete lie. Anyone with half a brain knows this will do nothing to deter criminals.

JT
said

Who cares what the costs are. I can't believe people would prefer that criminals are out on the streets (child molesters and young offenders creating serious crimes) than pay a few more dollars towards our taxes. Heck, maybe if these people are locked up our insurance rates will go down, or I can cancel my home alarm. Time to start getting tough on the people that deserve it, and let us lead free lives.

Really Now?
said

We should all realize that there are no exceptions for Medical Cannabis users in this horrific Bill..... make your voice heard.... find groups on facebook and join....... CANNABIS CURES!!!! Seriously, how should a child rapist get less time than a pot grower?

Mike
said

This bill isn't going to prevent crime, it will simply please the conservative entourage who will definitely profit from this.

reidjr
said

Sustainable is NOT the answer My issue is when some think the rights of the accused are more important then the victims i am sorry there is something very wrong with that.

Steve H
said

The cost are substantial so the conservatives are making the victims pay and making law abiding citizen victims by increasing our taxes to pay for this. Our crime rate has been on a general decline for 30 years our legal system was working fine. Possession of cannabis is not illegal in Canada according to Justice Edmonson of the Ontario Court of Justice "there is no offence known to law which the accused have committed. The Special Senate Committee on Illegal Drugs reviewed Canada's current anti-drug policies and legislation and reported in September 2002 that marijuana is not a gateway drug and should be treated more like tobacco or alcohol than harder drugs. The US is getting rid of it's mandatory sentencing because it serves no purpose, it doesn't make the streets safer and has almost bankrupt the US. A British study this year showed that alcohol causes 3 times more harm than heroin or cocaine, pot is at the bottom of this list to be less harmful than coffee. Our laws already permit up to 10 years for trafficking but our judges have more brains and will only give small fines. Harperland looks a lot like the failed US system.

John in Edmonton
said

While I agree that the ministers answers were, shall we say, somewhat evasive this morning. The catch and release system in place now does not meet the needs of the general population in the Satisfied catagory. The old quote " If you can't do the time- Don't do the crime" bears some discussion. When one hears that a criminal commits a violent crime while out on bail for another violent crime, such events cause concern. All that should be addressed in subsequent legislation.

Intelligent Liberal
said

I agree completetly with Sustainable is NOT an Answer person. Fighting crime on buses costs way too much, they only solution is to allow the drivers to have guns, or at minimun tasers if they are to stop be-headings plus graffiti to take place.

Jazz
said

Our present jails and prisons are woefully inadequate and are in desperate need of replacement. The Canadian People voted for a majority Conservative Government knowing full well that a hefty plank is the "Tough on Crime" platform. My hope is that they will also channel money to re-hab where possible and most certainly to the assistance of victims of crime.

gintoronto
said

Stiffer and mandatory sentences have accomplished nothing in the US except to nearly bankrupt a lot of states. Example the three stikes rule is being rethought in most of the 35 state that implemented it. So why are we going to waste money and make things worse other than for the Gov't to play to it's supporters despite the facts on the ground!

Ry in the Hammer
said

As I understand it from anecdotal conversations, the cost of this initiative is pegged at nearly $7 Billion over five years. Let's face it, there are a lot of simple marijuana users in this country that, if faced with a minimum mandatory sentence, would be incarcerated for five years if convicted. Moreover, this also factors increased court costs as individuals charged with a mandatory minimum offence would always plead not guilty knowing there is no bargaining room with the Crown and Judge - leaving the justice system to bog down even further and add more costs to the tax payers. And what do Canadians get out of this? A bigger tax bill, no crime prevention (anyone that says tougher sentences "prevents" crime should lay off the crack) and now petty criminals hardened with further criminal experiences in the "Big House". Glad to see our Government likes policies that, within every country they've been implemented, have failed horribly and been proven time and time again ineffective. They're only benefit, they sell politically to their naive voters.

Len
said

Sadly to say the intentions are good. But, violent crime has gone down. This plan is going to add a lot of money to a budget that promises fiscal restraint. If they want to help bring the crime rate down and not concentrate only on punitive measures that would be better. Inject more money and funds into crime prevention and to the court system to speed up the court backlogs. There are two sections that are worth consideration: strengthening the child abuse/sex laws, and, holding youth (16 and above) more accountable for serious, felonious offenses such as murder, assault, armed robbery, etc). These can be dealt with individually and not needed as any part of an omnibus bill.

Rick in Alberta
said

It seems some people are confused about this bill. The bill is not saying ALL crimes will result in more detention time, only certain extreme crimes. This makes good sense, people who comite these crimes have been released far to early. To early to be properly rehabilitated and to early for a deterrent effect. If a drug dealer knows that they can deal large quantities of drugs for a few years and make millions, then spend a couple years in prison, get out and live the life a great life. Then that seams like a pretty good retirement plan. But if you have to spend a minimum of 10 years in prison, the appeal greatly diminishes. As for very violent or child crimes, these should be longer on principal. There is no room in our society for these people, and rehabilitation need to be certain, not released to make room for the next guy. I am willing to pay for this reform.

Curt
said

I can't believe that the whole interview was wasted on the "cost" of the bill. I would have been more interested in how it might work or what it will do to help us. The taxpayer is already paying either as a taxpayer or victim. This was a completely wasted interview. There needs to be more professionalism here. I was totally disgusted with this behavior!

kjs
said

This omnibus needs to be scrutinized very carefully. Read between the lines - this appears to be a further erosion of Canadian's rights and will only result in jails that are bursting at the seams. Conrad Black's statements regarding the American prison system and the fact that Canada seems to be following their example are definite food for thought. Most of the people who will suffer under this new "omnibus" are economically disadvantaged and/or mentally ill. Meanwhile, tax breaks and other advantages continue to be given to the corporate world and the wealthy by this government and the poor just get poorer. Who will protect us from that!

Barb
said

This Bill is needed badly and the cost is not important compared to the safety of Canadians. This Bill is long overdue. There is way more money wasted in Governments and the Canadian people dont know about it until its happened. Take the long gun registry for one. In Ontario the Ehealth fiasco and the money spent on those windmills causing stress to those who live near them . The Provinces will be able to pay after all they waste money like no body's business. I am tired of hearing about people out on parole, not obeying court orders, committing crimes again and again, in the guise that they are well and have been rehabilitated. Youth crime is happening everyday, take a look at Toronto, everyday there is someone being stabbed or shot at and there are more out there. Whats the point of the police arresting these thugs only to have the courts releas them in a few months. Judges need to be held accountable. Those who say we are getting like the US, yes we will be if action isnt taken. Thank you Cons.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

With great fascination and amusement I've noted that, with respect to this Bill, the most argumentatively passionate and seemingly outraged folk are the "potheads" who, with roach clips flying in disgust, see a particular element of this omnibus legislation as an assault on their toking habit. (Hilarious.) While I happen to support decriminalization, I've learned that anyone speaking ill of marijuana smoking is an uneducated fool who, clearly, doesn't know how "medicinal" and "healthy" for your lungs (and the rest of your body) it is. Physicians are, allegedly, stupid, ignorant, and hiding the truth. Moreover, folks who partake in the herb are more intellectual, more enlightened, and, thus, smarter than the rest of us. No, no; these folks aren't the boneheaded "stoners" we knew in highschool, who have now grown up (sort of), and forged a career and/or family, they are the cerebrally gifted, scientifically astute, and politically endowed who have all the dandy talking points from High Times Magazine and Marijuana Monthly down pat. ... Damn the Conservatives.

Sustainable is NOT the answer
said

This interview with Nicholson should be a complete embarrassment for the Conservatives. This guy's answers were nothing short of evasive with no ideas as to the costing of this bill, nor any viable reasoning as to why the cost is not being provided to the taxpayer. There is not an MP in this country nor poster on this forum that can describe for me how this bill will prevent crime, or tell me how this helps the victims of crime. No one can offer how changing the name of the "Pardon" process and adding a few years to the time before a convicted criminal is eligible to be record "free" is a good thing. With accurate statistics proving that crime is down, isn't a better process with a more informed resolution in order to deal with crime issues in Canada? Absolutely. Silly misguided voters are responsible for this mess, and we are all going to pay for it… and dearly no doubt. Nothing comes cheap with a Conservative government. Nothing!

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