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Trainwreck: Canada's high-speed rail failure

A man bows down to check a CRH380A high speed Chinese passenger train, the model that hit a record speed of 486 kph during a test run of a yet-to-be opened link between Beijing and Shanghai, outside the venue of 7th World Congress on High Speed Rail in Beijing, China, Tuesday, Dec. 7, 2010. (AP / Alexander F. Yuan) Passengers walk by the German Intercity Express (ICE) high speed train at St. Pancras International Train Station in London, Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2010. (AP / Lennart Preiss) A CRH high-speed train zips in a test run in Zaozhuang, in east China's Shandong province, Friday, Dec. 3, 2010. (AP Photo) A CRH high-speed train on a test run on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway is seen in this undated photo.
A man bows down to check a CRH380A high speed Chinese passenger train, the model that hit a record speed of 486 kph during a test run of a yet-to-be opened link between Beijing and Shanghai, outside the venue of 7th World Congress on High Speed Rail in Beijing, China, Tuesday, Dec. 7, 2010. (AP / Alexander F. Yuan)

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Date: Monday Dec. 27, 2010 7:50 PM ET

Imagine being able to travel to a city 500 kilometres away in less than two hours, without the hassle of driving through miserable traffic to far-flung airports, without feeling violated by airport security, and actually being able to use that expensive phone in your pocket.

This is a reality in the 20 countries around the world with high-speed rail. But it's an abstract fantasy in Canada, the only country in the entire G8 without at least one such system.

It's been 46 years since Japan unveiled its first high-speed rail systems, but Canada is languishing with a rail system from the 1950s that one rail activist calls a national "embarrassment."

"Who can defend what we have? The public has to say ‘Enough is enough' and tell our government that we need . . . modern passenger rail like the rest of the world has," Paul Langan of the group High-Speed Rail Canada told CTV.ca

The arguments for high-speed rail make it seem like a no-brainer; it's understandable why 88 per cent of Canadians said they supported high-speed rail in a 2009 Ekos poll, compared to the mere six per cent who opposed it.

  • They're fast. Japanese and French high-speed trains have both reached mind-boggling speeds of over 575 km/h. The Chinese, who are quickly becoming a leader in high-speed rail, had a recent test of a passenger train that hit 486 km/h on a soon-to-be-opened link between Shanghai and Beijing.
  • Dedicated high-speed rail lines are ridiculously efficient -- at least in Japan. Officials there point out that trains are punctual down-to-the-minute, even with 300 million riders a year.
  • They're safe. There has not been a single fatality in either the Japanese or French system. An average of seven Canadians die in road accidents every day.
  • Environmentally, there is no better way to move a large amount of people, unless someone builds a really, big bike.
  • Major economic benefits. Study after study says high-speed rail creates significant numbers of permanent jobs and massive residual benefits. An Alberta government report suggested a Calgary-Edmonton high-speed line could be worth $33 billion to the economy.
  • Canada has the home-grown expertise in a company such as Bombardier.

So, if Canadians want high-speed rail and the benefits seem enormous, what's the hold up? In Canada, the problem is somewhat twofold. The cost is prohibitive, and would require an enormous investment from federal and provincial governments. Secondly, Canada's small population over its vast landscape limits its feasibility to only a few areas of the country.

Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro, who has chaired an all-party caucus on rail since 2007, says he supports high-speed rail, particularly a Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal line, but that it is not economically feasible at the time.

"We need to build the ridership up to demonstrate we have a business case," he said in an interview. "I think the opportunity to build it is not quite upon us yet but we do need to work toward it and I think the way we work toward it is to work in steps and I think that is what we are doing."

"It's more expensive than building about any other kind of infrastructure," he added.

Two potential corridors are oft-cited for their high-speed rail potential – Quebec City to Windsor, Ont., and between Edmonton and Calgary. The cost of the Quebec- Windsor line has been estimated to be anywhere from $6 billion to $30 billion, depending on the type of rail used.

Jeff Casello, a professor of transportation planning and engineering at the University of Waterloo, says there's a strong argument to be made specifically for the Quebec-Windsor corridor, where half of Canada's population lives.

He says the capacity of Toronto's Lester B. Pearson Airport and Highway 401 is maxed out, making high-speed rail an attractive alternative.

"I think there's very strong consideration on the (Quebec-Windsor corridor) considering the limits on Pearson and its ability to handle any more traffic and the unwillingness to invest in widening the 401," he said. "There's realization that there needs to be some redundancy in our transportation network, so we can't rely on a single mode to satisfy all our transportation needs.

"If something closed the 401 for an extended period of time, there are very few other alternatives."

So, how did we get here?

A brief history lesson

If you are say, less than 70 years-old, you probably don't remember a time when passenger trains ran frequently or efficiently in Canada.

"The North American transportation planning mindset that we adopted in the post-World War Two said our transportation problems were going to be accommodated by the car and we didn't need to worry about diversifying our transportation alternatives," Casello said. "While our European counterparts were investing in light-rail systems for urban transportation and high-speed rail for intercity transportation, we were investing in interstate or national highway systems."

By the early 1970s, railways were increasingly unprofitable in Canada and then-Crown corporation CN pushed to rid itself of its passenger service. Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau formed VIA in 1976, but since CN owned the tracks, Canadians travellers have been second-class to cargo on the lines ever since.

"It was better in the 1950s," Langan says, referring to passenger service in Canada.

Two generations of Canadians have virtually no concept of what proper rail service can be like unless they've travelled to Europe or eastern Asia. So while many Canadians like high-speed rail in theory, it seems about as realistic as hovercars. And that makes it easy for politicians to forget about high-speed rail as public policy.

"There's no vision, there's no policy," Langan says of the federal government.

"We haven't had viable passenger rail for 50 years, so people can't see it as a viable option."

But for high-speed rail advocates there was hope to be found in the despair of the recession, as governments began throwing money at infrastructure projects for economic stimulus.

High-speed stimulus?

In April of 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama announced $8 billion in investment for high-speed rail for 10 different lines across the country.

"High-speed rail is long-overdue, and this plan lets American travellers know that they are not doomed to a future of long lines at the airports or jammed cars on the highways," he said, adding traffic and road congestion costs the U.S. economy $80 billion a year in productivity.

However, Obama has had a bit of trouble implementing the plan (newly-elected governors in Ohio and Wisconsin recently turned down the cash), but the move was a significant step for road-obsessed America.

In Canada, there was no equivalent announcement coming out of Ottawa.

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty announced $12–billion in infrastructure spending in the economic stimulus budget in 2009.

The budget promised an additional $407 million to VIA for infrastructure and capital improvements on its aging rail system. The investment was part of nearly $1 billion announced for Via since 2007.

Del Mastro said he was surprised how little attention was given to the announcement, given that the project would allow trains to travel at a peak of 160 kilometres an hour and reduce travel from Montreal to Toronto by 30 minutes.

But there was not one dollar for true high-speed rail, with the government instead focused on "shovel-ready" projects that could get underway immediately.

Langan says the government's emphasis on "shovel-ready" projects (i.e. road construction and improvements) did little to create long-term jobs.

"When you spend that massive amount of money on roads all you are doing is creating make-work projects," he said. "It's not providing long-term jobs, its not providing the economy with a new boost.

"(The stimulus money) just kept the guys paving."

Parliamentary Budget watchdog Kevin Page largely agreed, giving the government's economic stimulus plan poor marks on job creation.

So where does that leave us in Canada? Are we forever doomed to curse at bad traffic and long airport lines, to wait four hours if we miss a Via train? Or do we need to change our perspective?

Economically speaking, Del Mastro says Canada's rail system is excellent.

"We are world leaders in rail, we just happen to be world leaders in freight rail, more so than in passenger rail," he said.

The Quebec, Ontario and federal government launched a $3-million study in 2009 on the viability of a Quebec City to Windsor high-speed rail line. It was supposed to be finished in early 2010, but the Ontario government will only say now that it will be finished in a "timely manner."

"We will make the report public as soon as possible after it has been completed. The governments will be reviewing the study findings in early 2011. We will subsequently identify the mutually agreed upon next steps and the timing for the report's release," Bob Nichols, senior media liaison officer, with the Ontario Ministry of Transportation said in an email.

"The study will no doubt say that people like the idea of it . . . the concept of it is popular, the challenge of significant and the cost of building it is substantial," Del Mastro said.

In July of 2009, the Alberta released a market report on the feasibility of a Calgary-Edmonton high-speed rail line.

While the report says Alberta stands to gain $33 billion in economic benefits from a top-of-the-line high-speed system, the government has not moved forward in any meaningful way.

"We have not made a decision on a high-speed rail project, however, this report is a good first step. We will continue to look at all options in order to support Albertans and the province's economic future," Transportation Minister Luke Ouellette, said in a statement at the time.

Not surprisingly, they are still looking at "all the options" in Alberta, more than a year later.

John F. Kennedy is remembered as the president who got America on its way to the moon, John A. MacDonald as the prime minister who helped build the Canadian Pacific Railway. As for which politician will be known for bringing high-speed rail to Canada, that remains a very open question at start of 2011.

Comments are now closed for this story

The Rat
said
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@Pam - "t HS Rail in areas that have mountains, you build tunnels. It is not rocket science."----------------------------Pam, let me superimpose a map of BC on Japan, or maybe Europe. If I could you might notice that BC is just a tiny bit bigger than Europe or Japan. You might also note that the trains in Japan tend to travel North-South not East-West and any tunnels there are rather short compared to what you just suggested for BC. This may be a surprise to some but corners aren't good at high speed so in order to cross the Coastal Mountains and the Rockies you'd pretty much have to tunnel the whole way to keeps things straight. Europe is basically one big plain with some mountains in Switzerland and Italy, that's a whole lot easier to deal with. Sure the prairies would be just as easy except there would be like 4 stations - Calgary, Edmonton, Regina and Winnipeg. Density of population makes a huge difference, you know, unless like typical boosters you don't care how much of a money pit this is. Actually, it seems most boosters don't care because this is one of those "National prestige" things. Naive old me figures if it was feasible and remotely profitable some private company might have thought of it.


Loran W. Harding
said
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BE CAREFUL! HSR sounds good in abstract, but when they start planning it, you see that the dunderheads are going to run it THROUGH cities past thousands of homes and through beautiful countryside. Look at what they are doing in England-trying to run it thru priceless, beautiful villages and getting almost violent opposition.
Here in Calfornia the rich, educated homeowners on the San Francisco Peninsula are fighting it tooth and nail, with my encouragement. They want to put it right down thru Palo
Alto, Menlo Park, Burlingame, Belmont past thousands of homes costing over $1 million. The problem is these trains make 98 dB of noise and they want to run them 30 per HOUR in Calif. Google noise and vibration of high speed trains. See the big Harris Miller Miller and Hanson study of HSR trains in France, Italy and Sweden. Then decide if you want Canada ruined with HSR trains. SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!


bellesque
said
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I travel by train between Montreal and Toronto regularly & prefer it to flying. To fly, it's 45 mins to/from the airport in each city, arriving 1 hr. ahead of time and 1 hr. of flight. That's about 3.5 hrs. The train is downtown both cities & the quick time is 4 to 4.5 hrs. Not much difference & it's relaxing. I would love to see the time cut to 2 hrs. Presumably, there would be non-stop trains and milk runs as well, as there are in Europe, where train service is fantastic. But the real big issue is that we SAY we want to protect the environment & reverse the damage but the money & mouth are far apart. People would rather fly. It's considered elitist, even if it costs more and is a pain. That the air is polluted & the dependence on fossil fuels expands with every flight & every car doesn't seem to matter to this environmentally conscious country that recycles. Rail travel is an alternative to both flying & driving, & one that works towards saving the planet. But money isn't to be made, so, no go. Mother nature has been screaming at us for the last years to cut it out, but no. We're too sophisticated to listen. Any steps that help the planet help us all. High-speed trains are a viable way to travel in the 2 corridors mentioned & I'd like to see it happen.


Dave in Downtown Newington
said
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I cannot help but think that the spending of billions of dollars on high speed rail transit in Canada is just a tad like the old "Keeping up with the Jones's" story.It seems to me that the first thing on the menu should be to attract more passengers to the existing routes by improving services and train schedules to make rail travel a viable and cost effective alternative to taking your car,bus or a commuter flight.....As a person that travels several times a year from Cornwall, Ontario to Toronto I can only say that I find both the cost and the service mind numbing.On several occassions I have found myself standing all the way to Toronto while the next carriage(s) that were designated First Class were nearly empty. The last time I was threated with being put off the train by and obnoxious little power tripping conductor that refused to allow an elderly lady to sit on my suitcase as it was blocking his path in the aisle!Complaints to Via Rail have as yet gone unanswered,even when I have been in contact with several people that also had written or e-mailed the company.I think it is time that rail service was given an overall shake up in Canada, opening up new branch lines to serve the public rather than base any future infrastructure on profit rather than serving us.High speed is great, but not the be all to end all. without the service and cost efficiency.Ask any National Airline that invested billions on the Concorde.......


Hitoshi Maruyama
said
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One decisive factor is missing. That is the future energy supply.
In 1998, Colin Campbell and Jean Laherrere predicted that cheap oil will end sometime in this decade in their article, March, Scientific American. Jeroen van der Veer, president of Dutch Shell Oil Company warned his employees that 'easy-access oil will be gone in 2015 in his new year message of 2008.
Are these two just a co-incidence? Regardless what you think, oil is limited resource and soon or later it will be gone.
So when its price will go up again, this time would not the same as the summer of 2008. It will remain and keep moving upward. Canadian oil-sand or shale will keep the supply but with high price.
Then people of Canada as well as the US have to walk, use horse-back and stage couch pulled by horses and ships.
So High speed train(HST) should provide up to 1000 mile travel and airplane will over it. Airplane is needed for transoceanic travel. Liquid fuel with high energy content is also need for producing foods.
HST needs only 1/3 to 1/8 of energy of cars to move the same number of people. When HST uses renewable energy, oil is conserved greatly.
So we do not have any choice but to make HST based mass transportation network throughout Canada and the US.
Unless people of the nations want to use horse back rides.


True Blue Canadian
said
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What happens to this high speed rail line between Toronto and Montreal when Quebec finally separates from the RoC .. ever think of that kiddies??? High speed rail is only justifiable for business travel because the fares would have to be sky-high .. and business travel to an independent Quebec would virtually vanish. Besides, you don't invest into a massive multi-billion$$$ rail project when Quebec is set to separate .. that would be stupid!!!I hope you didn't think it would be transporting lil' ol' grannies back from visiting the grandkids ...and backpacked university students return to campus after their holidays back home in the boonies.. VIA snail and buses are enough ....!!!


BillD
said
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We do not have a high speed rail service for two reasons. Firstly, the bureaucrats would rather waste our tax dollars on anything but concrete projects and secondly and more importantly, we could never get such a project through the maze of regulation that three levels of government has created. We have gone from an nation of innovators to a nation of bean counters who see the process as more meaningful than the result.


Norm from Canmore
said
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First thing, in Japan if you built a 50 km high speed line you would probably have twice the entire population of Canada as customers. Yet we'd need 500km just to link Toronto-Montreal. And this is just for passengers, not freight. Next, the additions to Quebec City and Windsor cover roughly the same distances as Montreal-Toronto and have virtually no population to generate customers. So to break even, fares would need to be so expensive no one would us it. Maybe if the Feds banned flights less than 500km in southern Ontario/Quebec people would use it (no choice); otherwise it'd be one helluva an expensive white elephant. This guy should give his head a shake, you need density to make this work. Toronto-Montreal would be the only viable route, and even it would be unprofitable due to the excessive distances compared to Japan, Europe, or China.


Jeff_in _Kitchener
said
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How about a kind of rail ferry service where I can drive my car onto the train and then relax in the comfort of my car while while the train gets me to my destination. Just imagine not have to worry about other drivers and truck traffic on the 401. This would be a win / win for both rail and road and far more practical with what we already have.


don.h
said
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marg is right. the reason that we have a poor rail system in this country ( especially in western canada ) is because the fed. gov. let the rail companys abandon and rip up rail lines, thus putting massive traffic on our highways in the name of corperate profit.
in the 50s&60,s we had dayliners running through many small towns, and the edmonton to calgary corridor, and now we don,t even have rails.
i belive that in this day and age with people so conserned with polution and traffic conjestion that the dayliners were ahead of there time. as a note whem on vancouver island last week i was supprise to see a dayliner is still running the length of the island servicing all the small towns along the way,proving that it still works.


Brenda
said
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@ james, if you would have read what Michael said you would have seen that he pointed out that H.S.R. across Canada would bring jobs to every province and I agree with him This type of rail service will have to be built from the ground up and every province will employ people building, running and maintaing High Speed Rail. Will it cost a lot of money to start, YES but it can work and benifit all of Canada.


Rob Alberta
said
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@the Rat, you are kidding right, some of you people should get out and see the world on the way they put holes thru mountains and bridges 100's meters high what ever stands in their way they make it work. Why are Canadians so intimidated by tunnels? Gophers tunnel 1000 of km every summer and we Canadian humans can"t.


Malcolm
said
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We could never do it here WHY you ask.By the time you get past all the red tape. Who owns the land, how much to go through an Indian reserve, then the Animal rights people would come out and yell about the Goffers or Owls, then the enviros would come out under the other rock and yell about the rocks and the noise or wind of the trains are causing an influx in the polar system that is killing the moss in Northern BC. So now it just doubled in price. Then out under the next rock comes some expert in Ottawa, Now it just doubled again. And then just about the time the project was about to be completed the enviros would come again and scream about the paint on the trains might fall off at high speed and we wait for more gov approval for the tests all the paint and air flow, noise, the moss growing affect and if the owl can get away from the train. So a 1 billion dollar project will now cost 10 billion. That's why we have no high speed trains. The Chinese don't care about the goffer or Owl, or what the enviros or animal rights lawyers have to say or if the moss is growing in Northern China. That's why they have the massive ports and high speed trains, hundreds of factories and millions and millions of jobs.I know I'm the crazy one.


Pam living in BC
said
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@ The Rat, do you think Canada is the only country with mountains? Japan, has them, Europe has them and guess what, if you want HS Rail in areas that have mountains, you build tunnels. It is not rocket science.


Luc from Carp
said
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High speed implies that the train is not going to stop between destinations. Those who think that you can have a high speed connection between Quebec city and Windsor and that the same run would stop in Montreal, Ottawa, Kingston, tonronto, etc... along the way do not know what high speed train means. To be high speed, it goes from A to B only and has to by-pass all other stops along the way. Otherwise you get another milk run such as what we have now. Of douse, as usual some will try to have one of those great canadian compromises solutions that tries to do it all for everybody and ends up doing none well.


Ray, Mississauga
said
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It's only money. Opposing lines running Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa might replace the dozens of aircraft now servicing these three markets. Three airlines and three airports would not be happy and the Government is not in the least interest in upsetting them. It doesn't matter what voters want or don't want.


Larry Wener, Calgary
said
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It's about time that we in Western Canada get ordinary rail passenger traffic. Calgary, A city of over 1 million people has no scheduled passenger traffic east, north or south. Only an expensive tourist rail line to the west. A higher, not high speed line is desperatly needed from Calgary to Edmonton. The 50 year old 4 lane Highway 2 between Edmonton and Calgary is completely outdated. It is not even up to freeway standards for most of its length.


shawbrooke
said
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In a sparsely populated country like Canada, high speed rail would be a money sink. The only real question is how much each person in Canada would have to fork out to subsidize it every year. The cost is way higher than funding and supporting a similar length of 6 lane divided highway.


Bee
said
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If there was money to be made in a high speed rail system, the private sector would have jumped all over it. Look how many rail lines have been closed down because they are losing money. Until Canadians get the itch to ride the rails, I don't think spending billions of taxpayer's money on a high speed rail system is the prudent thing to do.


Dave
said
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The article which we are commenting on I do not believe is talking about high speed rail from Porcupine Bluff to Moosejaw (sorry about that). It is however talking of areas where it would be feasible, Windsor/Quebec, Edmonton/Calgary. These three areas a.k.a Ontario, Quebec and Alberta account for approx. 75% of the GDP produced in Canada. All the taxes that flow from these 3 provinces into federal and provincial coffers each year would pay for these rail lines. Those saying that the people in those areas should pay for it themselves probably could if they where not paying tax dollars to support infrastructure, schools, hospitals, airports, marine ferries, bridges etc. in less populated areas. In the end those 3 areas would no doubt be paying for the service.


Rob Calgary
said
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The problem in the west is the freight trains make a bulk of their money on freight not hauling passengers, and the freight trains have priority going to Vancover getting their goods to the container ships and back. It makes more econmical sense to move freight.


jenni victoria
said
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I think that we should go ahead and build that really really big bike.(Maybe that would attract business to Canada).


LT
said
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Montreal - Toronto corridor needs a fast train for sure. As a frequently flyer, I can tell you that this corridor will pump more revenue than anywhere else Canada. You have business travellers tourist = over 10 000 000 passengers a year.


MARG MM
said
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Never mind "high speed" trains, how about restoring rail service in Western Canada. In order to go by train from Vancouver to Calgary, we first have to go to Edmonton then bus to Calgary. High Speed rail would work between Edmonton and Calgary, but since we have had former Governments that catered only to Eastern Canada, it is Quebec and Ontario that have benefited from train service between cities. I love to travel by train and travelling through the Rockies is awesome, however much too expensive. Sure there is the Rockey Mountineer that will get you to Calgary, but at a very great cost, and it is geared up for tourists. For ordinary Canadians wishing to use rail as a means of getting from one city to another in Western Canada, there just is no such service. Via chose the Northern route, hence getting to Calgary from Vancouver by train is too expensive of an option when one wants to visit family several times a year, otherwise it would be a method of travel, that I suspect, many people would embrace.


Late Forwork
said
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So if the Government builds a new rail line out of Calgary, will we have to drive around it? Like we will drive around the new airport runway closing Barlow Trail.


Kevin in Calgary
said
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A couple points for this lively debate. First, the present rail infrastructure in Canada is nowhere near ready to support a high speed service. Putting in a new right-of-way would be outrageously expensive.

What would happen in the dead of winter when a rail breaks? Yes indeed, extreme cold temperatures breaks rails.

Crossing with grade separation would be the only way something like this would work/ Again, billions of dollars required.

Instead of touting high speed rail corridors BETWEEN cities, we need more light rail transit IN our cities. Both subway and above ground LRT systems are the way to go and spending public dollars on this type of system would realize more benefit than spending money to connect cities.


Ray, Mississauga
said
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We had a necklace of small towns along the railway across the prairies. To service them, we built a high speed Trans Canada highway. Then we ripped up the tracks, the small towns disappeared and we have an obsolete high speed highway servicing what? Meanwhile, the railroads continue to be underutilized. Interesting place this Canada.


janet james
said
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To the person who thinks that high speed service would benefit the Windsor, London, Kitchner and Toronto areas, being that this is the largest density of population in Canada...thats just fine as long as they alone pay for it. I don't see any need for high speed in Canada whatsoever. We don't have the commuter base in all provinces to make it viable


Will
said
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According to Dave McCleod in Calgary, he will vote Liberal in an upcoming election because he thinks he heard Iggy muse about railroads. That's quite a reach when trying to find a reason to vote for someone......keep looking.


Don
said
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I have an idea. Let's stop funding the CBC and that would free up a billion dollars a year that could go towards funding some form of passenger rail service.


Rob Canadian
said
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The problem is there is to much political interference to get a high speed train system in Canada being influnced by Air Canada and other airline services and their stock holders.


Ry in the Hammer
said
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How do you expect the federal Government to support high speed rail when Canadian airlines and airports are the first to call the Prime Minister and Premiers of Ontario and Québec to bitch about it. The idea of high speed train service has always been muffled by big business (especially airlines) and the oil industry - who stands to lose an enormous profit should a successful system be implemented.


Jim - North Saanich, BC
said
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Several have expressed the opinion that the population density of much of Canada will not support high speed rail transportation and I agree completely.

It has been some years since I've been in eastern Canada but the Montreal - Ottawa - Toronto corridors where we have a high population density were not ill-served so far as rail services were concerned. In fact, I often rode the train rather than fly because working out transit time from downtown to downtown was in fact as fast if not faster by rail than it was fighting my way to, through and from the respective airports and on to my final destination.

I have ridden high speed rail systems in Europe and while they are certainly impressive, the distances are short and the population density is very high. Given our immense distances, no high speed rail system will ever compete with air travel for speed on long hauls nor will it compete with the flexibility the automobile offers as an alternative. Markets arise in response to demand and except for the areas mentioned above and possibly the BC Lower Mainland, the market for high speed rail links isn't there and won't be for some time to come.


Steve Jalsevac
said
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A very costly hi-speed rail line cannot be justified due to our population spread. However, we do need a huge increase in rail line service to take the load off of the very overcrowded highways in densely populated regions of the country. There is a major problem, however. From my observations over many years, the power of unions has been the major factor causing the switch to cars and trucks by Canadians. Transit and rail unions have had a history in Canada of regularly abusing their monopoly power causing frequent strikes over excessive wage and benefit demands. They have angered the public and businesses so much that we do everything to bypass these greedy folks and use alternate services.In my mind that is by far the main obstacle we have to getting the intercity train and city transit services that we need. Part of that obstacle has been weak politicians not standing up to these unions and rejecting excessive demands and not bringing in competitive alternatives to the monopoly transit situations.


Steven Medicine Hat
said
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It would be nice to have such a thing here. I live in the prairies and high speed rail could work here BUT who is to say the Government is the one that needs to do it? Why does everyone ALWAYS turn to the government to make things happen? Isn't there an enterprising person or greoup of persons out there with a vision (and the money) to initiate such an idea? I mean if that sort of person or group of persons won't step up then that tells me there is no profitibility in such a venture. That being the case why should the government spend our hard earned dollars to produce it if they can not recoup our tax dollars in order to make it profitable, I mean not many people use rail transportation in Canada now so what makes you think they will if we had a high speed rail system?


Rob Calgary
said
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As Canadians we think we are so advanced here its an embrasement. We are further behind the cart here than you can believe. They always try to save money here when they build something or purchase something that it always cost them double at the end. Spend the money build it properly and will be cheeper in the end. Typical Liberal mentality. Should buy somemore British subs!


Doug # BC
said
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Building this would be a disaster.It would come in billions over budget,it would serve only a small number of the Canadians who have to pay to build it,and everyride would be subsidized even after the capital costs were paid off.People who use these transit services NEVER pay enough to run the systems. As others have said.This is not Europe.Our population won't reach that level of density for centuries.And it's only with high density that these expensive systems can be built and operated at a reasonable cost.Taxpayers can ill afford to subsidize more rides for people who won't pay yhe real value of the rides they take. For that kind of money,we can build something that either generates revenue,or serves ALL of the people who have to pay for it.


PBW
said
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Cheap mass transit depends entirely on population density. Even the Windsor - Toronto Montreal corridor is marginal from that point of view. In the Tokyo/Kanto area of Japan, most stations have a train stopping every ten minutes 24/7, usually (0600 to 2400) with more than enough passengers to cover costs. But that area is relatively small in area and serves a population approximately that of Canada. On top of that, add the Japanese Shinkansen network that links their major cities, truly high speed and efficient, but again, the population density warrants such investment. As far as Canada goes, high speed rail is a nice dream that will probably never come into being, as the only links would be in the Windsor-Toronto-Montreal corridor and maybe Edmonton Calgary. I don't see the populations of the other provinces agreeing to give their tax money to subsidize something 99% of them would never benefit from.


Andy
said
0 0

"a 2006 report stated that the annual average daily traffic (AADT) count between Weston Road and Highway 400 in Toronto was estimated at 431,900, with up to 500,000 vehicles passing over it on some days This makes it the busiest roadway in North America"

I decided to run some numbers on this. Assuming that the system attracts 10% of the daily traffic onto the rails:

500,000 a day
10% = 50,000
50,000 x 100 = 5,000,000
5,000,000 x 3.5 = 17,500,000

Now 17 million people a year doesn't sound like a bad number at all, semms very viable to me. Perhaps 10% is a bit high, but even at a mere 5,000,000 it could very well be made to be cost effective.

The trick would be tying it into places people would be travelling to and from.


Steve
said
0 0

What high speed rail does is link downtown large urban centers with each other. It increases business, because you can literally go for day meetings in other cities at an affordable price. There are some comments from people who don't live in the GTA, well news flash, even if you don't live in the Windsor-QC corridor, you definitely benefit from the tax base there. Your services are subsidized by the big economic hubs, not the other way around. You need to grow your city cores in order to create wealth in order to subsidize the small town folks. In Japan, 80% of people live in the countryside, and a great deal of these people take rapid trains to the large cities to do business. This is why their towns are neither poor nor devoid of hope like most small towns in Canada.


The Rat
said
0 0

Pop quiz - How mamy large population centres are within 500km of each other in Canada? In Western Canada? Calgary to Edmonton is 300Km and what is in between but farms? High speed rail in BC isn't possible because we have things called mountains. So once again we're back to "Canada" as the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal triangle, the only place high speed rail would be remotely feasible, and dare I say profitable? Or are we also willing to subsidize this like Via Rail, a system we all pay for and none of would even think of using?


Roadie
said
0 0

First thing those in Ontario need to do in cutting down travel is to live in the same city they work in.Living in Kitchener and working in Toronto and spending two hours on the road is stupid.Get a job in Kichener or move to Toronto.Waste of gas,time and energy.High speed rail will only give those people the opportunity to live even farther from their work place.Rail service is needed for those in Northern Ontario,in order to open up the north.Southern Ontario needs its residents to re-evaluate the way they live,and change the way they travel.Rail will only make it worst,not better.With cell phones,video conferencing and internet,there is little reason for someone to actually have to be physically in another city to do business.Rails only big purpose would be to transport goods more efficiently to get rid of the massive number of trucks that plague our highways.


skip
said
0 0

How are they in a bad snow storm?will they plow though a snow bank also what about wild life crossing like moose,you see what a goose does to a plane.


Phil in Phinland
said
0 0

to geoff. Finland, a postage stamp? Granted, it's not the size of Canada, but get over yourself. Finland is the most sparsely populated country in Europe, the eighth largest, with most of the population living along the southern coast. If we can build a few effificient (small) rail lines all over the country, you would think that Canada (the eight or ninth largest economy in the world?) could at least build one?


Will
said
0 0

We could easily have highspeed rail and large LRT links in our cities but everyone expects the federal government to foot the bills. We are not in central europe with a small landmass, so you cannot compare infrastructure. We are not like Japan with a small landmass and large population, again false comparisons. If you want high speed rail, you have to tell the railways (CP &CN), they make more than enough money to do startup and the rails are already in place. The only reason they won't spend the money is that the customers have not told them they want the service. (Of course, more people use air carriers to get around than rail these days but they could easily win back customers IF they did two things: provide a decent competative service with fewer hassels and get moving on building thier passenger business as well as freight.)


Michael from Toronto
said
0 0

The main reason why Canada has perennial problems with aging infrastructure is because Canadian bureaucrats and politicians spend public money mainly on salaries and wages. They don't put public money into improved infrastructure.


John
said
0 0

In 2003 in Albany, NY, they have a quiet, high speed train that uses four Bell helicopters as engine power. The only drawback was that it had to be cooled down on a track by itself. It was an amazing sight.


Ken in NB
said
0 0

When will people get a clue about continually comparing Canadian infrastructure to that of the smaller countries in Europe. This is a bit like complaining about the cost of Canadian cell phone coverage when the capital investment required to service such a large geographic area with a relatively small population requires that our costs will be higher. If you want all the bells and whistles that they have in Europe then get ready for the higher income taxes and the GST equivalent of 20 to 25%. We get exactly what we want to pay for and personally as someone that will never travel the Quebec Windsor corridor, let them pay for it themselves if they want it so bad. God knows that when Quebec seperates we will lose all the money that we have invested there.


Neil from Waterloo
said
0 0

During the Mulroney years some genius decided to deemphasize rail in favor of more cars and trucks. Since that time highway 401 never sleeps, there are way more cars and trucks on the road, there are many more accidents, the price of gasoline is much higher. A good first start for Ontario would be improved GO train service to/from the GTA. Of course it would need to be subsidized (out of the gas tax?) in order to convince people to leave their cars at home (thus reducing the over-all traffic snarls). I'm sure that private bus companies would complain but this mess has been allowed to continue for way too long.


David
said
0 0

Those who want high speed rail; stand up for those who can afford to pay $310.00 from Windsor to Toronto and another $290.00 to travel to Montreal. Unless we pay full value, which would be $600.00 from Windsor to Toronto, anex or lease aproximately a minimum of 15,000 acres or 6100 hectares of farm, industrial, wooded natural areas, and residential land; not to mention the land required for stations, tunnels, bridges etc. The freight rail would remain, where will the "high speed" be located? This is a no brainer; this is why we in Canada, or the U.S. do not have a "high speed" train because it is much cheaper to fly, less permanent damage to agricultural, industrial, wooded areas, and residential lands. Just because someone wants to sell another train dosen't mean we here in Canada have to buy one. If our train is too slow take the plane. If you don't like it here, live somewhere else like China; it is your choice. True there may be high speed available within cities but does 15 minutes in your day justify the $50.00 cost? My vote is NO for high speed; who is going to pay for it? Where is it going to go? not on my land, Who is going to clean up the mess when it dosen't work out or is too expensive and no one uses it; we have tried high speed here in Canada and the U.S. in the 1950's and 1970's. There are still skelotons of the failed experinence if you look around and you know where too look.


LJB
said
0 0

Talk about a one sided article. Some group that is for fast trains gets to state its case without any counter-arguments. Here is a little dose of reality. There is a big difference between Canada and Europe/Japan. In Europe, and probably Japan, produce and cargo is sent by truck, not by rail. This is because population centers are close together and they have excellent highways that can handle the traffic, so its much more efficient to send produce by truck. In Canada, on the other hand, the population is spread all across the country and we have a very limited highway system, so its much more efficient to carry produce by rail. That's why the railroads were designed to carry cargo and produce. And that's where the money is in, not in passenger traffic.


Bob fr Petawawa
said
0 0

I would support it, if it would benefit everyone in the country, both financially and passenger wise. Not just certain corridors within given provinces. It is a nice way to travel, but the passenger service would have to be extended to all of the country in order for me to fully support it.


Dave
said
0 0

Highway 401 extends across Southwestern, Central and Eastern Ontario. In foresight of the future expansion of the highway, the planners purchased a 91.4 m (300 ft) right-of-way along the entire length. Generally the highway occupies only a portion of this allotment and could possibly be used for high spped rail. It is one of the world's busiest highways; a 2006 report stated that the annual average daily traffic (AADT) count between Weston Road and Highway 400 in Toronto was estimated at 431,900, with up to 500,000 vehicles passing over it on some days This makes it the busiest roadway in North America, surpassing the Santa Monica Freeway in Los Angeles, Interstate 10 (I-10) in Houston and I-75 in Atlanta. The just-in-time auto parts delivery systems of the highly integrated auto industry of Michigan and Ontario have contributed to the highway's status as the busiest truck route in the world, carrying 60% of vehicular trade between Canada and the US. To replace some of this vehicular traffic with high speed rail would be good for the environment, as well as savings lives. It would cover the most dense population area of Canada through Windsor, London, Kitchener, Toronto and eastward and should make good economic sense.


Ed Doerksen
said
0 0

Good article however one has to remember that CN and CP are not government owned.Also that all rail lines are owned by either CN or CP. Another fact to remember is that VIA rail rents track line.It is more profitable to transport goods across the country than it is people.The cost of travel from coast to coast is far more expensive than traveling by air coast to coast.Canada will never have high speed rail lines because it is not in the best interest of the country to transport passengers.CN and CP were very eager to rip out rail lines through out the country. Try servicing rural communities that once had a rail line - there aren't any. They're gone.Passenger rail service in Canada is dying a slow death. Not profitable nor practical anymore.


Alyx Crawford
said
0 0

JB... some of us are old enough to remember rails service in Canada -- and not just the southern Ontario-Quebec City run. Real passenger rail from coast to coast, and to smaller centres around the provinces. High speed would be wonderful, but as others have said we need to re-establish short line rail networks to meet up with the high speed line.


geof
said
0 0

to phil in phinlannd . you forgot to saay the other half of the equation , although we have a bigger population than finland we also have a bigger country .we dont live on a postage stamp , we live in canada . and the last time i looked we had some debt to pay off . why we spend money here there and everywhere is beyond me . why we are having a war on somebody elses soil is beyond me . no matter what we do it costs .and before we go off building railroads we should really think hard about how to spend money . better to pay off thhe national debt than become like ireland or greece .


Sam C
said
0 0

It really is sad that many of the countries with high speed rail would easily fit into Ontario. A country the size of Canada would enjoy tremendous benefit from a high-speed rail service, not just in the existing "Windsor-Quebec" corridor, but right across the country. Sadly, our politicians have forgotten that this country was built along with the railroads.


Dave
said
0 0

Funny how some people can't see the forest through the trees. High speed, or even vastly more efficient rail service, is desparately needed in Canada, starting with the Quebec-Windsor corridor and perhaps Edmonton-Calgary. Talking about the "carnage" from an accident at 486kph is ridiculous. Look at the track records of the rail service in Japan and Europe. Quite safe, and even if one of those happened every 10 years, it would still be far fewer deaths than the numbers occurring on highways day after day from stupid drivers. And running into a snowback at 400km/h? Come on, like that wouldn't be known and cleared ahead of time. We can come up with all kinds of hair-brained reasons not to do it, but the most efficient method of travel (and transport) on the planet is on the train. We need to do better.


james
said
0 0

@Michael - You said "For one thing it would bring jobs to every province." I guess you're not aware that there isn't rail service n every Province?


Rene May
said
0 0

Having travelled all over Europe in their fantastic high speed trains that are quiet, fast and ON TIME, I can honestluy say that they are so far ahead of us regarding efficient public transportation that we will never catch up. First, we would need all new rail lines that can support high speed trains. Then, a all lot of under passes so train lines do NOT share any roadway. Then, the will to do this. We need it here in Canada. But I doubt this will ever happen here. Best it stays overseas so when we go over we can be reminded how far backwards we really are here.


Marcel NorthWesternOntario
said
0 0

This is a great idea to move people from one section of Canada to another. The problem is found in places like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and other similar places that suck all the transportation money for their own benefit. The votes are found in GTA and not Cochrane. This idea will never see daylight under any Federal or Provincial administration. A high speed passenger rail can open up many possibilities that will motivate business to move into areas that labour is not available and encourage a migration of people to live in underpopulated areas of Canada. Remember what the first rail lines did for Canada. Now imagine what possibilities are achievable with this type of transportation. I have not heard from any member of parliament who sees in what the future will be outside having their political party governing. There is no one with vision in any government they are all maintenance administrators. They concentrate on fixing problems instead of concentrating on what is working and where we need to go.


Robert B
said
0 0

Talk about train wrecks, can you imagine a high speed rail system with unprotected level at grade crossings?? It took Wpg 15 years to finnally build an "one"underpass at a major Road "Kenaston' and the Cn rail line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the only seemingly High speed Passenger train was train wrecked twice in train to roadway accidents between montreal and Toronto, because of level crossings. It will never happen.


old_dave
said
0 0

First off, Edmonton to Calgary is 298 kms. so Bryn's math isn't quite up to snuff. It's a good 3 hour drive.What I'd really like to see is a high speed line between Calgary and Winnipeg.That drive through Saskatchewan is enough to make one cry from boredom.


David Miller
said
0 0

I'd rather one big massive Bicycle Lane...coast to coast.


Phil in Phinland
said
0 0

I take the local commuter train to and from work every single day (16km from Espoo to Helsinki; including all the local stops, it takes about twenty minutes), and on the same track, six times a day, the Pendolino from Turku to Helsinki (150km) at over 200kph. There are many other trains that go that way, however that one is the fastest. The cities of Helsinki and Vantaa are building a new rail line to the airport.If the train is late, I take the bus.If the buses are late, I take the subway.The cities of Helsinki and Espoo are building a new subway line to come even closer to my house.I'm never late for work regardless of the weather.Soon, there will be a faster train from Helsinki to St. Petersburg (Allegro), that will cut the time between those cities from 5½ hours to 3½ hours.The population of Finland: 5.4 million.Alright, we don't have a high-speed train, but so what? We have excellent commuter service anyway.And you say Canada's population is too small to support excellent rail service?HaHaHaHaHaHa


Ben
said
0 0

Kojac. Europe is about 50 years ahead of Canada - Not 20. Stop being such a protectionist reactionary in the ways that you think. Also realize that this article also mentions China, which may be densely populated, but is also one of the largest countries in the world. Canada has absolutely no excuse for it's lack of rail services. Canada needs to update its infastructure, starting with it's transportation, and trains are a necessity. Lets think.. 3.5 hour drive to calgary, or 1 hour on a train.. or better yet.. 100 dollars worth of fuel to calgary, or 25 dollars for a round trip ticket. Hell better yet, I've heard loads of moaning from guys that work in Fort McMurray about having to drive or fly: answer - a high speed train. After all, all Canadians are told what a great moneymaker the Oil Sands are, yet are under fire for how enviromentally unfriendly they are. Well a train there is a step in the right direction.


Leo L
said
0 0

First, we all need to agree that public transit - train service - is beneficial.Second, we all need to agree that public trains must be affordable and efficient, therefore, ensure built-in economies of scale. (LRT vs high speed in certain areas, vice versa) You cannot build a high speed train without it being fed with a network of public transit.Third, we need to bankroll our money now in order to pay for a comprehensive cross country public transit strategy down the road. Rather than reactionary/compulsive spending.Would any of this happen? Not likely with the type of modern "gotcha" media we have nowadays. Nor would it happen with the Neo Con thinking/whining about costs and time, etc. - although, the G8 spending affair doesn't make sense - digressing of course.Rome wasn't built in a day and certainly wasn't built with bamboo. Alot of thought, labour and pride went into building Rome and has become one of the world's most sought after tourist's destination. Too bad we have to rely on our nature to get our tourists...wait, how do they get there?


If it makes cents
said
0 0

"IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME".... but only if it is cheap enough. High speed rail makes a lot of sense but the costs will be huge in Canada but if we had any kind of leadership in Canada and political parties that could actually speak to each other we might get such a system here. As it is it's just a topic to fight over.


Jack R
said
0 0

Funny. Canada IS Canada only because of the railroad. The loose confederation of provinces would never have agreed to join into the dominion of Canada unless the government of the day agreed to build a railroad that spanned the provinces. It's the primary reason that we exist. I sometimes think we vote governments in only so they can study what makes Canada work (in comparison to other countries) and then set about dismantling and vilifying the objects that we admire. Other words. We're stupid. Only 20 years ago, the railroads across Ontario were stopped, and the land sold off. Now where the hell are they going to place the railroads since the tracks that led from city to city are now no longer available.


Gerry
said
0 0

It will happen as soon as eastern canada finds a way to get western canada to pay fro it.


proud Ont vet
said
0 0

@ Richard in NB: our peace loving Canadian society wouldn't exist as it does today, let alone have hopes of a high speed rail system, if it were not for our military having the right tools at the right time to do their job. This is not the forum to slam the CF-35 purchase. Remember.. if you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's in English, thank a veteran. Yes this system will require a significant investment by government and private business. Is this a good thing? Yes. Will it create long term jobs? Absolutely! Canada is a big country, there are a lot of miles to cover. Someone in the government needs the stones to stand up, make the decision, and go with it.


Bryn
said
0 0

Has anyone tried to buy a ticket for Via from Edmonton to Vancouver? over $1000! Okay, so let's look at a Calgary to Edmonton high speed rail....It's a 2 hour drive at 110KPH. Is it really worthwhile to run a 500 KPH line, so it's a 30 minute run? Okay, so let's see that sucker hit a snowbank at 500 kph!We don't need FASTER trains, we need less costly trains with service to more cities. Those are the ones the average Canadian will use. While the run from Edmonton to Vancouver may be gorgeous and worth $1300, who can actually afford it? What if you wanted to go to a different city than Edmonton? It just doesn't run there. No, we need a more comprehensive passenger rail system that services more cities.With the mobile offices we have now, people don't need to be in such a hurry anymore, even for business. We just don't need to have Toronto and Montreal connected by a half hour run, while there's no passenger rail service for the rest of Canada.No thank you High Speed Rail!


Kojak
said
0 0

The point of high speed rail is to cover a long distance. Of all the major cities in Canada, in the course of a day or week would travel from one major city to another? This is CANADA we are not all cramming into a sardine can on rails at 500km/h an hour to go work every day. You can bed all you want for it, Canada is unfit for its intent and purpose. Possibly when heaping boatloads of illegal immigrants come it can be put to use but for now it's not in style.


Dean from Toon Town
said
0 0

I'd love to see a new high-speed rail service come to Canada, not only as a cost-effective option to flying between major centers but as a no-kidding competitor to regional airlines. The cost of flying with any Bugsmasher Airlines out there is horrendous! The whole hub-and-spoke airport system we have now needs to be replaced with a point-to-point system, but that's not going to change anytime soon so we need other options. If there were a high-speed rail option from outlying centers to major airports I think it would seriously improve the travel experience. IMHO.


Michael
said
0 0

I thing high speed rail would be good for Canada. For one thing it would bring jobs to every province. Yes there will be a cash out lay by the governments but with the jobs created by this project and the spin off jobs from that would employ a lot of people. This train system would also be used by a lot of people if the cost of tickets were kept reasonable and affordable to the working man/women. I feel this would be a good project for Canada and for Canadian needing work.


Kojak
said
0 0

Reading this article annoys me. With all the problems we as Canadians face, this is the solution? Apparently Europe is 20 years ahead of us, let's come up with better more reasonable approaches to making the Country better. Instead of constantly making a few more people rich.


Richard in New Brunswick
said
0 0

If ever there was a case to be made for "IF WE BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME" this is it. I do not believe it is more efficient and less costly to allow tens of thousands of heavily laden tractor-trailer rigs to chew up the nation's expensive roadways than to run rail lines to move goods from almost any point to any point. If we had passenger "day cars" (much like a bus on rails) running between smaller centres and cities, and a coast to coast modern, high speed passenger/cargo service I submit both would be running to capacity in short order. Who in their right mind would elect to enjoy the hassle of today's air transportation when this kind of comfortable, fast, safe alternative was available?Canada may have a smallist population now but it's growing and just as "modern" train transport enabled the economy to blossom in John A. Macdonald's day, the reestablishment of an efficient rail system would do the same today. Require investment? Damn right. For starters, how about we trade in $35 BILLION worth of highly crashable and mostly useless jet fighters (except to scare off those pesky invading Russians) and get a train that will benefit everyone? Right... I forgot... that would require a level of common sense and foresight that simply doesn't exist in our leadership these days.


Michael in Halifax
said
0 0

I would love to see high speed rail in Canada. I for one would use it. The only thing is that the price to ride the rails would have to be kept reasonable or there won't be anyone who can afford to take this train. Mind you I will never see high speed trains in Canada because it takes so long to get any construction done in this country with this study and that study and this group pushing to save this pond or that group pushing to save that stand of trees, this train system will never get started in my life time.


Mike in Ontario
said
0 0

We will never see High Speed Rail in Canada because it will take soooo long to do all the in environmental studies in each province to ensure we don't kill any blades of grass or trees before they even start laying tracks. I believe we have to take care of the environment but when it slows contruction to a craw or a non start them something is wrong. By the time all the studies are completed and the project gets started, trains will be a thing of the past.


It's only money.
said
0 0

If the people of Canada want high speed rail lines bad enough the politicians will be happy to respond. Politicians are always happy and willing to use your money to give you what you ask for and much more.


Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
0 0

It is obvious by some comments posted today that most people don't understand that the current rail system cannot support high speed trains.Corridors would have to be expanded and properties expropriated if necessary to accomodate extra rail as the current rail system is only designed for freight and slower moving passenger trains.Although there maybe a few links that could support a high speed rail link there are many factors that must be taken into account before such a plan could ever reach fruition.Although there may be many in support of such an idea there are probably just as many N.I.M.B.Y.'s out there opposed.We can all look to Europe and Japan as models for high speed but many cities there were rebuilt after the second world war and with their close proximity and need to conserve fuel their infrastructure was designed around the fastest and least expensive way to deliver the service.Its a lot easier to build from scratch as was the case for many of these cities as they were badly bombed during the war as for China they will do whatever they want without little consideration for people as they haven't the best track record of human rights.The three brothers dam is a good example as millions of people were forcibly moved from their homes so the land could be flooded. To pursue such a vision would require years of planning not to mention consultation as this would be a grand undertaking ,maybe it could be incorperated within a current model gradually to allow for all to have input ?Whatever takes place I am willing to bet I will continue to hear this discussion for years to come as I have heard it for many years past.


Trains are great
said
0 0

Can you imagine the carnage at 486 kph when one of these guided missiles leaves the tracks? Not pretty so the all new infrastructure and related costs would be huge. It might be possible to run one between Winnipeg and Calgary. Train travel is a nice way to go if we make improvements to the rail system.


rmsbl4
said
0 0

After reading this story I did a little comparison shopping. I live 17km from Kaiserslautern Germany.I can go from Kaiserslautern to Paris by ICE/TGV high speed, distance 450.21km, 2 1/2 hrs for $38.41 CDN.Toronto to Montreal VIA, distance 504.43KM, 5hr18min for $129.95CDN.Granted T to M is 54.22km longer I don't think it is worth the extra $90 and 2.8hr longer.SORRY about your slow rail service.


Dave
said
0 0

In response to this:>In Japan, as of 2009, their population was 127,560,000 surrounding 377835 sq km.. In Canada, of the same year, the population was 33,739,900 surrounding 9.9 million sq kms.Eh, no. Canada's population is concentrated along the US border, making it long and thin. Nobody is talking about building high-speed rail in Nunavut. Montreal to Toronto, Calgary to Edmonton, Vancouver down into the US. This is what Canada needs to build.Russia is much larger than us and already has high-speed rail. More lines are due to be opened by 2018 for the World Cup.


Paul ~ Kitchener
said
0 0

"HIGH SPEED TRAIN" ~ NO !"Efficient Train Service" ~ Yes !Unless we have a "Nation Wide" desire, and a national commitment, supported by provincial governments ~ "It ain't gonna happen folks" !The cost vrs ridership makes a fully operational system an annual national debt burden to be supported by "All Taxpayers". We don't need anything to increase the tax payers support. What we need is to face reality, and make better more efficient roads, look to building a super bus system.


simon
said
0 0

why would the goverment do that for us when they have the chance to steal all the money we have by keeping us in the old fashion way. if we bring light rail that meens less cars less bus and that would help the eco system and to be honest do you think the goverment wants to do that they are to busy destroying the world rather then fixing it all the voters are to blam for this not the goverment cause it the voters who keeps electing the wrong people wake up voters and elect people that will get us ahead not keep us beind .


Kojak
said
0 0

Newsflash:Common sense isn't so common. It's not the fact that people don't like or want so-called high speed rail service, it's written right in the article:"The cost is prohibitive, and would require an enormous investment from federal and provincial governments. Secondly, Canada's small population over its vast landscape limits its feasibility to only a few areas of the country. "In Japan, as of 2009, their population was 127,560,000 surrounding 377835 sq km.. In Canada, of the same year, the population was 33,739,900 surrounding 9.9 million sq kms. Hello? Canada doesn't have the people to PAY for it. This article should be on an old paper because it's absolute (*recyclable) garbage.Long overdue? Move to Japan. Get on the boat.


Dayton
said
0 0

300 million riders a year? That's the difference. Sure won't help 90% of Canadian's who live outside the GTA. Please don't use my hard earned tax dollars to the benefit of the few. Make it pay without the govt. contribution.


JB in Calgary
said
0 0

Very true, only those who have been to Europe know the benefits of the rail service. It doesn't even have to be high speed trains to be a benefit. Even all the small towns around Munich or Frankfurt have trains that bring them into the city; these are small towns that are smaller than Airdrie, Cochrane, or Okotoks. We talk about high cost of housing and transportation in Calgary and nothing is done to try to fix any of it. When the space was available to build such lines nothing was done, now all the space has been filled in and we would have to kick people out of their homes to build such things. I have had communication with Luke Ouellette about implementing changes to the highway passing laws to match Europe and he would have nothing to do with it. Laws that Europe has to keep the flow moving on four lane highways. He didn't even say, "we'll look into it" it was "NO," I can't imagine anything will be done about train transportation while this DB is in charge of transportation.


Ram Punchington
said
0 0

What's a "Train"?


RGBrook
said
0 0

And in their budget a few short years ago, The Conservative government made the "promise" to re-instate public rail service from Toronto to Peterborough, a service which that same government pulled in the early 1980's. Through their gloriously inept MP Dean DelMastro, Peterborough is no closer to getting that rail service - outdated rail cars travelling extremely slowly and pausing to allow freight trains to pass - than they've been for 30 years. DelMastro's interim swer? GO Bus service! Don't waste literally millions of taxpayers dollars on this one! It isn't worth it, and the 407 extension will be built long before we'll see any action anyway. Make it "High Speed", not "No Speed".


Trevor in the Hat
said
0 0

Whether it be high speed or the regular slow speed what we once again need is affordable cross country rail service. Many times I have thought I'd like to take a train accross the country for vacation. Not only is rail service too expensive now, but I have to drive for about 5 hours just to get somewhere to catch a train.


Canadian George
said
0 0

If we hadn't spent all those billions in Afghanistan and on the auto bailouts, eliminated gov't waste and super-silly programs, there would have been more than enough money to have built this already.....plus a sizeable contigency surplus remaining!


Dave MacLeod, Calgary
said
0 0

Good to see an article on high-speed rail on the front of CTV. As an overseas Canadian I've had the benefit of high-speed rail in countries such as Japan, Korea and France, and the fact that it still isn't being considered in Canada is ridiculous to say the least.One other line deserves to be mentioned: a line from Vancouver down into the US to Portland. Since the US is finally investing in high-speed rail such a line might be the first way to bring it to Canada.Politically I'm not very partisan but since Ignatieff has talked the most about high-speed rail I'm most likely going to vote Liberal in the next election.


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Gatineau Quebec Police investigate an abandoned van that may be connected to a major crime scene that happened kilometer away were multiple bodies were found on Thursday May 24,2012 in Gatineau, Que. across the river from Ottawa. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Fred Chartrand

Estranged husband charged in Gatineau, Que., murders

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Finance Minister Jim Flaherty holds a press conference in Toronto on Friday, May 25, 2012.

Federal deficit falling despite $9B spike in March

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I feel that if certain organs were in demand, less effort would be made to revive people. Am I being silly? Not really. I had a bad experience in hospital when my heart stopped, the doctors tried to revive me and failed. They stopped and said I was gone. I came around on my own when the nurse was giving a final BP reading of 'zero'. I heard her declare me dead! It was all I could do to shake my head but they never caught on til I was able to open my eyes. You should have seen them scramble then! I thought the nurse was going to faint. The thing is, I think we may write people off too soon when there is something of value to be gained from them.

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Should all Canadians be automatically considered organ donors?