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Feds knew they'd lose data in census switch

Truth, left, graces the entrance of the Supreme Court of Canada in Ottawa on May 7, 2010 (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS) Parliament Hill
Truth, left, graces the entrance of the Supreme Court of Canada in Ottawa on May 7, 2010 (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Date: Monday Sep. 27, 2010 8:01 PM ET

The Conservative government recognized that changing the mandatory long-form census into a voluntary survey would make some data unusable for federal institutions, according to documents submitted Monday in Federal Court.

The documents were presented as evidence in a court challenge against the government led by a group that represents minority francophone communities across the country.

A lawyer representing the Federation of Francophone and Acadian Communities addressed a federal court in Ottawa on Monday, arguing that the switch violates the Official Languages Act.

The group wants the decision to be subject to a judicial review.

The document, obtained by the group for the court case, looks at how the voluntary survey will affect the data collected by Statistics Canada.

"It is recognized that the quality of the data collected by the voluntary (survey) will be lower than that of a mandatory survey," it reads.

Some survey data, "will not be useable for a range of objectives for which the census information would be needed," wrote Rosemary Bander, the assistant chief statistician.

The government tried to address some of the group's concerns by adding more questions about official languages in the mandatory short census, but the group said a simple headcount wouldn't suffice.

"The government must know what our needs are terms of health, of education, of everything, to know how to better deliver services and programs and respond to our needs," said the group's president, Marie-France Kenney.

"Our needs are very different from one end of the country to the next and often our communities are scattered and very small."

One of the many arguments against the Conservatives' plan is that a voluntary census won't accurately track the status of the French language in Canada.

The Official Languages Act directs the government to take actions that will help the development of linguistic minorities and enhance their vitality.

For his part, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservatives maintain that the mandatory long-form census is intrusive and the threat of jail time for non-compliance is unacceptable to Canadians.

The Conservatives' controversial plan has triggered opposition from groups across a wide political spectrum, including Statistics Canada. The former head of the agency stepped down from his role after the government claimed he had given his blessing for the move to a voluntary census.

The lawyer representing the francophone group on Monday said the first week of October would be the last opportunity for StatsCan to change its census process.

A number of groups are voicing their opinions on both sides of the argument, in relation to the long-form census issue.

The census debate also continues in Parliament.

The Liberals are expected to submit a private member's bill to write the long-form census into law by the end of the week. They also have an opposition day motion set for debate on Tuesday.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Eric
said

Some comments from people with zero statistics knowledge on this topic is absolutely pathetic. Without accurate statistics, it is impossible for the government to make the right decisions on economy, jobs, and health care.

First of all, surveys from credible sources are suppose to be conducted in an as random manner as possible. A voluntary "census" cannot even be considered a credible survey. It only has information from people who WANT to fill it out. This introduces incredible amount of bias into the data. Most likely, the people that need the most help will be the people that have their information left out from the data that leads to the decision making.

If the people that know the most about statistics in Canada (ie statcan) is opposed to the voluntary "census," then you know it is a bad idea.


VC
said

We are really tired the confrontational politics. Harper administrations must demonstrate their ability to solve economy slow down. Long form or Short form changed in the censuses would be diminished the five years or even ten years national planning accuracy .


Alethia
said

Let it be true Stats Can will lose data. Let it true that the quality of information will be degraded.

How much would be lost?

Canadians accept Decima polls which are true 19/20 plus or minus one or two--all the time.

Considering we have 20 odd million respondents, are we losing 1/20,000,000 accuracy or 1/1,000,000 accuracy. Perhaps this is a question they don't want joe public to know... (stats can that is). I could live with accruacy of a millionth.

Is it possible no one knows?


Les Grossman
said

What is with the Liberals and their obessions with forms and paperwork??? Long Gun Registry and now the Long Census Form. Waste of money the both of them! Glad the Conservative party is calling a spade, a spade. Try to trim the fat on the Hill for crying out loud!


George V.
said

I think that if the long form is going to be re-instated because of the courts, the average Canadian now knowing how the majority of our citizens feel about it will refuse to fill it out or fill it out not telling the truth. The long form will never have the same effect as it did before all this kafuffel.


Gary McCowan
said

Does any believe the census is answered truthfully. I for one have never answered the census truthfully.They want answers to questions that I do not believe is their right to know. So basically I just lie How does anyone believe the results. The census is just big business being carried on the backs of the government


Sahib Reginawale
said

"Island Girlsaid We have a federally funded "francophone only" school being built in our city on the west coast (population $31,000) which will house 100 students grades 1-7, while my english speaking children are crammed into 25-30 student classrooms Now they are wasting our resources on frivolous law suits??? Where do we draw the line?"Island girl I agree with you that money needs to be diverted towards educating anglophones. You are a living proof - expressing population in dollars.


Nick in Gatineau
said

The more information you have the better the capacity to make a well-thought decision. Harper is wrong, Canadians are right. End of story. Statscan doesn't go to your home to steal from you when you are not home - just because you answered a question wondering at what time you usually get up at.


Ian K
said

@ Keith in Brampton - this suit wants to reverse government policy in regards to the census and that IMO is not something unelected judges should be deciding. At most they could be allowed to make recommendations. Government policy is and must remain the sole prerogative of elected governments if we are to avoid a dictatorship of the judges. BTW, I think the government is unwise in its decision but I will defend any governments sole prerogative to make policy.


shawbrooke
said

All politicians - please focus on the economy, jobs, lowering taxes and making sure that inflation does not eat away at earning power. JOBS please!As far as the census goes, take away the draconian penalties, get rid of the most intrusive questions such as those about money, and I'll bet that there would be fewer objections.


art
said

The fact that we are all missing here is that the cons are not interested in factual information because it does not agree with their ideological beliefs. If they cut census questions, there will be no way to contest the validity of information that the government provides.


Ken
said

It is quite shocking the amount of misinformed people that are commenting here. From my tally, it seems to be the people that are supporting the CONS, as usual.


allan
said

I have a stat for you--100% of this family doesnt give a rip for the census, and I bet 99% of the Canadian public dont care either. Only special interest groups with nothing to do want to drag this b.s. on to eternity. Let them divulge all their information and leave the rest of us alone!


Ian
said

To Toronto Elite, love your handle. That's the problem with this country, there are too many Tornto Elitists always telling us what is good for us. Nobody yet has come up with a compelling argument as to why voluntary census will be less accurate than a mandatory one. It's like saying you are a better driver if you have to pay for your licence rather than get it free. It's all rhetoric from special interest groups who see the end of a gravy train and they are fighting tooth and nail to keep their "elitist entitlements" It strikes me as suspicious that so many people are so worked up about a census for heaven's sake. You'd think the government was taking away our rights or something.


Dan
said

There are so many places that collect data regarding official languages that this is a red herring for sure. They are probably afraid of losing out on some special federal grant or another.


Mark
said

Ok, this is crazy. People are actually arguing that we, the people, shoud actually be forced to fill out a paper form, rather than it be voluntary. Those arguing for it, are simply arguing for political reason, and are not being honest.


Marcel a francophone
said

How many Canadians have used the information from these long form sencus? Come on people this is not very smart. I use information from statscan and it has to do with writting research papers. There are other sources a person or company can draw from. Having access to this information from statscan lonform has very limited value. The majority of Canadians has very little use for infomration like "How many rolls of toilet papre do you use will benefit business (especially lawyers and politicians). As a francophone these people do not represent me or my views.


Doug
said

Why not divide the extra questions on the long form up and make 10 or 15 medium versions of the census, and give everyone one of these forms. This way everyone would fill out the same length form (although with different questions), it wouldn't be too long, and the data would have the same statistical validity as the long form.


Harper has to go!
said

How do you do a 'threat assessment' on your own government? Their ignorance is dangerous!


Pip
said

Keith in Brampton, in response to my earlier post, comments "It's the Official Languages Act; that means either French or English. "Minorities" is used because there are distinct groups (se above); it could also refer to pockets of English-speakers in predominantly French regions". My point is that the Official Languages Act, while implying inclusivity, actually discriminates against racial groups for whom English or French is NOT their first language, especially true in the case of our First Nations. Either recognise these growing minorities in terms of language, or restrict official language to the single majority language. There will come a time when, as a result of our immigration policies, that, for example, ethnic Chinese speakers outnumber ethnic French speakers in our nation. Why maintain a status quo with no regard to actuality? As for pockets of English speakers in predominatly french areas - has Keith fully understood the effects of Quebec's Bill 101?


Will
said

talk about your frivolous court action! Nothing in this decision has ANYTHING to do with the official languages act. It's just politics by a special interest group!


gar
said

This is a prime example how the tail is trying to wag the dog.We are a little tired of the demands made on Canadians to satisfy french language outside of Quebec,while they in the province of Quebec condemn every thing that is in English.The Conservatives will win many votes if they do not cave to these demands.The court can only reject this out right no body is losing their rights with the removal of the long form


Danny Dinosaur
said

The scrapped census is another example of how a small paranoid minority group can impose their values on to the rest of the country. The difference on this one is that the small paranoid minority group is currently forming the government. It also fits in well with the strategy of governing based on illusions, secrets and photo ops.


Gilbert in Ottawa
said

Ok, so the last time you fill out the long form census, you answered truthfully and honestly to all the questions or just ticked off here and there? Yea, thought so, the information on the long form was sooooooooooo reliable.....


RK in MB
said

It's amazing how much the intelligence of our citizens has dropped in the past few years. The Cons want to drop the long form because it is too intrusive and threatens jail time. The short form has jail time attached to it too. Why are the Cons only concerned about the jail time for not filling in the long form? Because it is just an excuse. They don't want Canadians to be able to compare apples to apples in the future. Keep your subjects stupid and they have no choice but to be loyal!! The Cons are using this issue to dumb down Canada and oh so many of you are walking right into it!! Drop the short form too? Why not, it's not like we need to know how many people live in Canada! Should I care how many people live in Vancouver? Ottawa? Bobcaygeon? You bet your a$$ I should and so should you. Should Bobcaygeon get the same amount of funding as Vancouver? Probably not but how would we know that for sure without the information from the census???


Keith in Brampton
said

@ Ian K - If the actions of the government break the law, and they do nothing to recitify this, then it is the court's responsibility to set them back on the right path. The government may make the laws, but that doesn't put them above the law. That's not to say that they have necesarily broken the law here. But there is a very real possibility that, in deciding to change the long form census, they may have inadvertantly breached a provision of a law that they were not aware would have any bearing. Given the heated debate over the issue between the parties, it is probably better to let a reasonable third party dispassionately evaluate whether the government can carry out their actions without breaching the OLA, rather than expecting the highly partisan House of Commons will decide on any basis other than scoring points.


Island Girl
said

We have a federally funded "francophone only" school being built in our city on the west coast (population $31,000) which will house 100 students grades 1-7, while my english speaking children are crammed into 25-30 student classrooms Now they are wasting our resources on frivolous law suits??? Where do we draw the line?


Toronto Elite
said

Only a conservative gov't could come up with a plan that gives us a less effective census at an increased cost. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. Focus on getting high quality jobs for Canadians.


peter in MB
said

Is it not scary to some people that a minority group can go before the courts and demand a law to know details of people’s privet lives. The courts are there to make a ruling on the laws not make laws. This case should be thrown out.


Keith in Brampton
said

Read the article, people! @ Jacob in Edmonton: this is NOT the opposition taking court action; it is a group of private citizens. @ Alexandria: these are NOT Quebeckers; they are francophones OUTSIDE Quebec. That would include about half of New Brunswick, the Manitoba Metis, and a pocket of French-speaking Newfoundlanders on the Port au Port peninsula, to name just a few. @ CYL: the word is "census", not "consensus". @ Pip: It's the Official Languages Act; that means either French or English. "Minorities" is used because there are distinct groups (se above); it could also refer to pockets of English-speakers in predominantly French regions.


JJAYCEE
said

I fail to see why the Voluntary census answers would be a pack of lies, while the long form is God's truth.All sorts of decisins are made from answers to IPSO or Angus Read polls or even the one where your Bank phones to see how statisfied you are with them. Most are free opinions and answers-some are even paid a buck or two or they will givve you an entry to a contest. Stats Canada sends people out to various communities on a regular basis-is their research invalid? All a pack of Lies?


RealityCzech
said

Alexandria said: "More bluster and nonsence from the Francafones in Quebec." Umm, read the article, Al: this is more bluster and "nonsence" from the "Francafones" outside of Quebec, not inside.


roy
said

I say go green and get rid of the census altogether,its just a waste of paper and paper takes too many trees


Ian K
said

This suit - and others like it - set a dangerous precedent because they have the effect of replacing rule by elected government with rule by unelected judges. Appointed judges who are not responsible to the people have no business deciding what government policy should be - either domestic or foreign. Giving judges this excessive amount of power actually moves us closer than we want to be to a dictatorship of a small elite over whom we have little or no control as a voting populace. These kind of suits ought to be forbidden. If you don't like a policy, vote out the government.


Rob
said

Hmmmm Let me think.... thinking..... well why don't we send the Official Languages Act down the same road as the long census form and SCRAP IT TO!


1Don1
said

It still amazes me that the courts can do something that the majority of our elected MP's cannot or will not do ...


Havelock Heavy
said

Good for them and I hope they win. Messrs Clement and Harper did not offer any good reasons for cutting this valuable form and the data it provides. So I hope it gets reinstated.


Cam
said

Harper destroying Canada one step at a time, when we vote him out he'll probably move to the US & join the tea party.


bob beckwith
said

It`s not the minorities that should worry about the census change! The minorities are living high off the hog!! The ones that should worry about any changes to anything are the MAJORITIES


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

Well -- at least there was some good behind the change in the census forms.....


stav from MTL
said

Again, if changing a piece of paper is the most controversial topic in Ottawa, i'd say the harper government has done an exceptional job.


BGrigg
said

Seeing as how the Tories have already said they would put the language question on the short form, I hope the courts deny this suit as frivolous.


Pip
said

If the act requires the government to ". . . take actions that will help the development of linguistic minorities and enhance their vitality" - note the plural noun "minorities" does not restrict the act to French - then the act must apply to First Nations and other minority language groups too. All too often their languages are imperilled by English and French - and their languages have just as much right to exist and be supported, in the name of cultural diversity, as English and French, even though they are not official languages. Why must French be the only minority language? Why not Chinese or Ukrainian or Tagalog or . . .? Perhaps those groups should join the court case too. I suspect that forcing the government to use the long form census - or just putting 2 extra questions on the short form - would reveal adequate information to satisfy the needs of minority language speakers, French or otherwise.


Albertaboy111
said

making census data less reliable and more expensive, not to mention dismantling the most respected and accurate census collecting method in the world is just plain foolish. I could see if there really were invasive questions, but the questions on this form are the same ones that our parents and grandparents had no problem filling out, and have helped shape our country into what it is.


CYL
said

I agree with Mr Harper, this consensus should be voluntary, however, correct stats and report could not be produced from voluntary information, but who's to say that the mandatory form was correct anyway.


Al - Ottawa
said

OK, let me get this straight. The current short form doesn't ask about what your mother tongue (language) is? I find that hard to believe. Another lawsuit to make lawyers rich and leech more money from the tax payer.


Alexandria
said

More bluster and nonsence from the Francafones in Quebec.They need to come into the 21 century. Teach your language in the home if it is important to them they will keep speaking French no matter what. They should protest the same rights for English speaking People in Quebec. Fed up to the neck with this foolishness.I wish some one would list just what their culture is so we could understand.


Jacob in Edmonton
said

Just because something has always been done that way doesn't mean that it needs to continue to be done that way... Census included. The opposition needs stop making up a crisis (census, long gun registry) and instead focus on what's really important to Canadians: economy, jobs, healthcare


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