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Liberal MP John McCallum speaks during a press conference at the National Press Theatre in Ottawa, Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010

Liberals unveil bill to reinstate long-form census

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A Liberal MP holds a press conference to accuse the Harper government of adopting a deliberate strategy of hiding information from Canadians in order to advance a right-wing social and crime agenda.

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Liberal MP John McCallum speaks during a press conference at the National Press Theatre in Ottawa, Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010

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Liberal MP John McCallum speaks during a press conference at the National Press Theatre in Ottawa, Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010

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Date: Thu. Aug. 26 2010 10:15 PM ET

The Liberals introduced a new bill Thursday to bring back the mandatory long-form census, which the Conservative government intends to replace with a volunteer option.

Liberal finance critic John McCallum said the bill is an attempt to undo the damage that will be done if the Conservatives go through with their plan. The move comes after months of sparring with the Conservatives over the controversial decision.

"Liberals believe that sound information helps make sound decisions," McCallum said in a release.

"That's why we will fix the mess Stephen Harper created by reinstating the mandatory long-form census and ensuring the threat of jail time is removed in the Act."

The Conservatives have argued that the census is invasive to Canadians and that the threat of jail time for those who refuse to comply, is heavy handed.

McCallum said the Liberal legislation, which will be tabled on Sept. 20 when Parliament resumes, will remove the threat of prison time.

The Bill specifies that 20 per cent of Canadians will receive a mandatory long-form questionnaire at census time. While jail time will not be a factor, Canadians would be legally required to complete it.

McCallum dismissed the Conservatives' concerns about privacy, saying that argument is a smoke screen hiding the party's true goal: hamstringing government's ability to deliver progressive social programs.

He called the census vital to Canada's interests, saying: "As one business person put it recently, the first rule of business is 'you can't manage what you can't measure.'"

The Conservatives and Prime Minister Stephen Harper have faced months of opposition to the decision, which was widely panned by academics and organizations, including Munir Sheikh, the former head of Statistics Canada, which relies heavily on the data from the long-form census.

One of the main criticisms of the Tories' move is that data collected under a new, voluntary system will not be comparable to decades of data already collected in past decades, rendering it virtually obsolete.

McCallum said the move would also provide an inaccurate picture of Canada, because lower income, minority groups would be less likely to participate in a voluntary survey.

Dimitri Soudas, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's director of communications, quickly shot back, telling The Globe and Mail that the statement shows Liberals' tendency to "constantly look down on working class people."

He said it is wrong to assume that minorities and the poor need to be threatened with jail time in order to participate in the census.

"We believe that freedom is an essential Canadian value, and we don't think that it is right to try to frighten or intimidate people into surrendering huge amounts of private information to the government," Soudas said.

Recently the Conservatives said they would add language questions to the short-form version of the census, which were previously only included on the long-form census.

Comments are now closed for this story

Dan Laurin Windsor
said

As well for you Fiscal Conservatives if there are any around. Why spend 30 million more tax dollars for less accurate information??? Does not make sense to me.


Dan laurin Windsor
said

Of Course DIM Soudas ignores that they will remove the threat of Jail time and only keep the threat of a fine. Ah well DIM conservatives


Dan Laurin Windsor
said

For all you conservative supporters remember the USA (The Country you wish we were) tried a voluntary census. They received such a low response rate they re instituted a mandatory census and were forced to pay twice for it.


Captain Canada
said

It is none of the government's, or the United Way's, or the Association of University Teachers' or the Canadian Marketing Association's business what my religion is, what time I go to work, how many rooms are in my house, how many hours unpaid work I do at home, etc. etc.


Dan Laurin Windsor
said

For people who do not read Right now there is a penalty of 60 days in jail or a 500 dollar fine for not filling out the census.


Pat - Ottawa
said

If the Liberals really believe that sound information helps make sound decisions, like universal daycare, then someone please tell how much I will have to pay NOT to complete the form.


Gerry
said

This is what you will get from the left wing loons, the fiberals and n.d.p.and the c.b.c.fron the east.


B. Kelley, Private in Ontario
said

My personal information is just exactly that - PERSONAL. Other than what is necessary for paying my income tax and for contributions to EI and CPP they are not entitled to know anything else. News media, political parties and private companies conduct surveys and polls all the time to get information they need. It's a reliable way of determining necessary demographics and it's anonymous. The government works for me, not the other way around, so the information they have on me should be MY CHOICE. Ignatieff and the Liberals are way over the line on this one.


P. Desmarais
said

Whichever road the government takes you can know for certain the boring "Glibs" will take the complete opposite road, not for any particular reason other than to be politically obstinate and obstructive. This has become the role of our inept opposition and their worn out manipulative politicians from the 1980's and '90's. How boring it is to be a Liberal these days!


Wendy
said

Good on the liberals , I read a report from a US university today that said Canadians will pay the price for a voluntary census, not only will Harper's census cost more the data from the voluntary census will be totally useless. The liberals a right, it doesn't make sense to pay more for useless informatio.


Naveed
said

This move by the Cons to eliminate the mandatory census is nothing less than to erode government involvement in social programmes and improving the lot of the average Canadian.Through the census, government can allocate monies to those in need and other social programmes can be enhanced.Harper and the Conservatives don't care about Canadians. Only about winning elections, and as usual many of us are being fooled about this issue.


Keith in Brampton
said

Wow - the Conservative hacks are out in full force over this one - full-on, foam-flecked snarls! Interestingly, while this one is almost all anti-Lib, the CBC site is almost all pro-Lib. As both are moderated, I wonder whether this is an indicator of who reads which - or an indicator of the political preferences of those doing the moderating. (Probably a bit of both.) @ The Prof, who wrote: "Nobody with any intelligent and informed sense truly believes that the long-form census is "vital" to the administration of federal, provincial, and/or municipal social programs." Really? So you're saying that pretty much EVERY government in Canada other than your cherished Harperites are idiots? I think you fell down a rabbit hole and have been smoking a hookah with the Mad Hatter. Again.


diolbat
said

Here we go again. The opposition rails away at anything that is not centralized, socialized or a matter of personal choice. On the question of keeping the manadatory long-form vs the voluntary short-form, most of those supporting the retention stance seem to be either party stalwarts or groups who'd either have to collect their own statistics or justify their actions / inactions using evidence more concrete than statistics. Oh, and these groups would have to fund and garner support for their actions locally and / or provincially, which doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.


kim
said

We need a mandatory census. it's that simple. If we, as a nation, want to know what's going on in our country, we need a mandatory census. People today are lazy, if there is no incentive for them to fill it out then nobody will. Maybe instead of threatening jail time, a small tax credit would be a better approach.Either way, everyone from economists, sociologists, criminologists and anyone conducting research relies heavily upon statistical data. They need a solid data base in order to have some clue as to what is happening within our country. It is not responsible or intelligent for government to simply do away with something so inherently important to us all.


Wayne (Waterloo)
said

@ Prof Pye Chartt who said " Nobody with any intelligent and informed sense truly believes that the long-form census is "vital" to the administration of federal, provincial, and/or municipal social programs. (It's not; especially when going to only 20% of the targeted population.)"I'm guessing that you are not really a prof - at least not in the mathematical/statistical side of education. If so, you would know that a response from 20% of the population is a statistically valid representation of the whole population. The compiled results will be virtually identical to compiled results if you were to query 100% of the population - at 20% of the cost.I would also like for you to provide your sources that prove that this information is not vital to the admistration, etc of various social programs. I haven't seen any. I've seen various statements from various agencies (government, corporate, charitable, etc) that say this is very valuable data. All I've seen to the contrary is that they can pay for it themselves (so higher taxes, user fees, cost of goods, etc) and that I don't want to be forced to provide information to the government (that people otherwise seem to happily give to their bank, credit card company, facebook, etc)


5th Generation Canadian
said

It's about time the Liberal Party found its backbone. Pandering to Harper & his minions certainly doesn't endear them to Canadians. Give us an alternative to the lies, hidden agendas, fear mongering, bullying, neo-con prolific spending (G20 and fighter planes instead of health, food & housing and environmental protection).


Myrna Ellis
said

I fail to see how my getting the long form census again will give a picture of Canada. Every census I get the long form, as I have for the last 30 years. Why--It comes to every 4th house and they always start in the same place.The distrubution method is flawed, but so are many of the questions on the long form census. It is not meant to give a picture of Canada but instead it is set up to give BUSINESSES information. Otherwise why questions about how many hours you spend housecleaning--or-shopping.If and when this goes through and I get the long form again., I intend to photocopy it and put it on the web. It's time Canadians and liberal supporters seen just what is on the lomg form


Spence in Ontario
said

Good for the liberals to introduce a bill to fix this. Scrapping the long form census was a boneheaded move by Harper and the cons with no valid reason. With the voluntary form we would be getting a less useful set of data and it would cost more. Where is the logic in that? Odds are the NDP and BQ will support it, though the cons will probably play procedural games again to interrupt passage.


charlie
said

I have yet to have someone explain why the long form census in the US (now discontinued) was sent to 1 in 2000 households (yes, one in two thousand) and in Canada we have to send it to one in 5. Are the US statisticians smarter than Canadian statisticians or is there less impetus to make work in the US than here?


Luc from Carp
said

The only reason Liberals are remotely interested in the compulsory long form census is because they think it gives them an edge against the Conservatives. They zeroed in on this insignificant issue at the start of the summer, wouldn't let go and will bring it back in the fall. Immigration and refugees? Who cares! Flood in Pakistan? Naw, won't help get us elected! Economy? As long as we can keep on taxing when we get elected we have nothing to say! But boy-oh-boy compulsory long form census, now THAT has to be dealth with! Talk about living in the past. And to think that they claim to be forward thinkers, when they stake their best shot at election on maintaining the status-quo on antiquated data collection.


Norm in London
said

All summer on the BBQ tour and the best thing the Liberals can come up with is " another reason to invade my privacy"....Please there are more important issues to deal with besides the long census


Tomko
said

Simple Politices "Simple Minds" waist of taxes dollars..


LIBERALS LIE
said

The Liberals are completely out of touch with ordinary Canadians. They're basically scrambling at the bottom of the polls trying to come up with "anything" to discredit Harper. It won't work. The Liberal glory days are over.


Mark - Fort Erie
said

Hey Paul on Vancouver Isle.....the long form is still there, just voluntary. Get your facts straight, and stop being so predjudice against us knuckle draggers who have figured that out already.


Mark
said

While there at it - get rid of the "do not call list" - I miss that. They should make voting manditory too! Hmmm...what else can the lefties squeeze in there.....What a complete waste of time. ( I'm sure the media has pointed out that the long form is still there - only voluntary, no longer manditory)


Steph
said

Ask anyone who knows a thing or two about statistics and they will all tell you the same: You can make them say whatever you want! Here one fine example: If you go with a specific 20% of the Canadian population (put all unemployed, welfare, students, certain ethnic group etc. together) would that be a true reflexion of the rest of the country....Absolutely not!


Richard in Ontario
said

How many people will be able to tell the government how much their hydro costs were three years ago... And how does this relate to what is going to happen in the future. John McCallum has been nattering since he became an MP and still we haven't heard anything from him that makes any sense at all... All bluster and making it look like the Libs are attempting to do something,,,,,anything.


Ryan
said

Who cares.....seriously are we still talking census....


Yvon W. Madore
said

The present government is a minority one and was not elected with a mandate to pursue ideologically based legislation. It is time for the opposition to firmly oppose this measure whether or not Mr.Harper decides that it is a Confidence measure.
Can you just imagine how Mr.Harper's party would govern if he held a majority? A scary thought and not one that I would ever have previously considered in Canada.


thetruth1028
said

OMG Brian..if you don't like the "socialst" principles of our country...then Go move to the US and go pay a fortune for Health Care and deal with Banks that play fast and loose with your money.


tony
said

Though as canadians we have the right to remain silent this should include this long form cencous.if they reinstate it i will just go back to the old ways and check all one side with out reading the questions. As a canadian i should have the choice on this it should not be manitory. Manitory is dictorship nothing less.


DaveB
said

Paul of Vancouver Island, manages to reveal the true face of liberalism;"For those of us who are educated, at least grade 8, we all understand knowledge is fundamental to making informed decisions". Yes, of course, the great unwashed have to be coerced into doing what's best for them as only you know what's best for them.


chris [london]
said

If your willing to spend an hour filling out a mandatory questionnaire to make a profile on Match.com then surely your willing to fill out the census.


Nolan Moore
said

Why not create an INCENTIVE not a DISINCENTIVE to fill out the form. Something like $100 tax rebate or something. I think the key thing the Tories are upset over the fact someone can be forced to fill it in. They and i want choice. Can we truely get "truthful" info when someone is 'forced'?


vancouver girl
said

I'm very pleased to see the Liberals being proactive in bringing back the longform census. I think it's essential information for planning in Canada. It's time for Harper the Dictator to say good bye to the job of Prime Minister.


Acroyear
said

@aysopn The very same argument I've been making...100% agreed. I'd have no problem with the long form if it was only for governments, but Stats Can used the bully pulpit of the Census to gather marketing data as well. THAT I won't be a part of, so for as long as they keep doing that my census form, long or short will filled with garbage. @Prof Pye Chart... be darned....something we agree on. Better put this in my calendar.


Doug On
said

Typical Liberal logic, mandatory with a voluntary option and no penalties. Give Ignatieff credit for being consistant; coming down on both sides of every issue he faces. Long guns must be registered, but no problem if you don't do it. The mind boggles.


Chris [london]
said

Wow I am amazed at the short sightedness of you conservative commentators. A census is conducted to provide the country with INFORMATION now that information doesn't necessarily have to be vital information but information never the less. Also as far as all this complaining about how long it is, WHAT ELSE YOU GOT TO DO WITH YOUR TIME? Sit in front of the tv eating chips? We have had census's conducted in this country for decades and not one person has ever complained about it nor have they ended up in jail. READ THE FACTS DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF AND LEARN THE TRUTH.


Doug # BC
said

Don't be fooled by this,my friends.The Liberals are picking the low haging fruit with this bizzare issue that impacts few of us.This is a simple distraction so they don't have to table any policy statments on the more serious and divisive issues. Even if you support a long form census,if there are no penalties for filling it out,it is,by definition,a "voluntary" systems. Meanwhile,where are your policies regarding the immigration and refugee system? If you don't like the Conservative plans for military supplies and equipment,where are your plans? If these are the wrong planes,which ones do you think are the right ones? If the ships they plan to build are wrong,which ones,if any,are the right ones.Is it still the intention of the Liberal Party to impose linguistic requirements for Supreme Court judges that will make it impossible to have a judge from, western Canada? If Conservatives seem to tough on crime,where are your ideas to protect the people of Canada? With all due respect from a Liberal who left the party,this is smoke and mirrors intended to avoid the real issues."Iggy" says "we don't want to talk about ship jumping Tamils". WHY NOT? Most Canadians want to talk about it. In EVERY election,my vote is up for grabs.But I will not return to the Liberal Party until they table a sound policy book about the issue most Canadians care about.You cannot win back my vote by convincing me PM Harper is no good.You have to PROVE you have better policies on MAJOR issues.This smoke and mirrors game is one of deceit.I am not keen on a Harper majority either,but if that's what it takes to rebuild a credible Liberal party,so be it. This NDP Lite nonsense is wearing thin with me.


Damon
said

Our stats keeping is considered one of the best in the world. Its information allows governments to make calls on budgets, city planning, minority funding (race and language) planning and many other important government issues. There is no question the long survey is VERY USEFUL and should be kept around. Without jail time being threatened, having it "mandatory" is not that big a concern and yes, most people are lazy so having it 100% optional is a bad idea.Also, your information is fully protected, once its entered into the "system", your identity dissapears and you just become stats / numbers. If your information is ever specific enough to give away your identity, they remove that information to protect you.I know people that work at stats can, if you are against the long survey, you might want to talk to them and inform yourself.


LP Markham
said

When will the Liberals learn that my personal habits are no one's business, not the government, not the companies they sell the info to!


MARG MM
said

It sounds as though John Mccallum is talking out of both sides of his mouth. The Liberals will introduce a bill taking away the threat of jail time(thus making it voluntary) but those 20% (not 80%) will be legally required to complete it. Am I missing something here? Which is it? Voluntary(no threat of jail time) which the Conservatives are planning, or will there be heavy fines, or other consequences for not filling it out,as proposed by the Liberals ? At least tell us what the consequences will be if it is not completed, since you are making it illegal. The bill makes no sense whatsoever, and appears to be contradictory.


Will
said

Once again the Liberal Party has chosen to tilt at windmills rather than concern itself with real issues. Until they learn to differentiate between reality and nonsense, they will remain on the outside, no matter how much screaming and accusing they do.


Pedro
said

To those who think the census is a privacy risk, consider that NO government or private organization has access to your census data, not even CSIS.To those who think that Ipsos-Reid, Decima Research, Leger etc can provide comparable data are dreaming. These companies only provide topical opinions and do not provide the depth and breadth of factual information about demographic trends that both the public and private sector depend.Statistics Canada has, until now, been regarded as one of the most professional and reliable national statistics organizations in the world. In particular, decade to decade data provides excellent yardstick of where we were and where we are heading at a nation ... all of which is essential to enable the public and private sector to plan for the future, establish budgets for schools, seniors homes, etc.This is not about exposing personal information. The data as published is aggregated and for small communities it is adjusted in a statistically unbiased way to ensure that no individual can be identified.The census data benefits us all by ensuring that planners have good data on which to base future projects, where to build schools, hospitals, just to give a couple of examples. Filling in a census form does not take much time and is just one of the things we have to do as members of a civic society, like paying taxes, following the rules of the road when driving, etc.~~


crittle
said

Lost in the partisan bickering is the fact that the last census was farmed out to Lockheed Martin the American Military industrial giant. I did not even touch that form. An updated, less invasive and processed by the Canadian government census form is not a horrible idea if done correctly.I do not think the Neocons are the ones to do it.There are many many other more destructive and meatheaded Neocon activities that should be critisized and derided.


aysopn
said

Should the long-form census become mandatory I propose it be only on the condition the data collected is released to only government entities for specific purposes of that entity; no private/public businesses, no special interest groups, no unions, no charities, etc.I am not willing to be required to provide data for any organization/corporation, whether for profit or not, under a threat of penalty.


Brian
said

If I have to fill out a census, it will be a best seller in the fiction category! Last thing I want is more socialist Government sticking its nose in my life. Give me a $500 tax credit and I might think about it.


Andrew
said

Wasn't it the Liberals who were warning us about the Conservatives putting the miltary on our streets, with guns, forcing their will on the people, with guns. Now it is the Liberals who want to force Candians to abid by their will. It is the Liberals who want to make it against the law to not answer the government.


Paul Vancouver Island
said

For those of us who are educated, at least grade 8, we all understand knowledge is fundamental to making informed decisions. Too bad neanderthals don't understand this concept and want to do away with the census currently in place. Harper appeals to the stupid in us not the intelligence in us.


Brenda
said

Thank heaven for the Liberals--Finally some common sense!


Ken - Calgary
said

Excellent move by the Grits... Harper doesn't have a clue.


mike
said

is it not the same thing the cons want. the libs say we will make it so there is penelty for not filling it out . does that not make it volentary.


M.M.B. Ont
said

Well said Peter in MB !. I too filled out the long census and I do feel it is no one's business how many bedrooms and bathrooms I have in my home.And just what is the relevance to Stats Canada to know this? What if I just had a simple little old out house? Would that class me any different from the rest of Canadians? The Liberals think the ordinary working class and the poor are stupid and they look down on us. I hope they realize it's the working class and the poor who were smart enough to elect the Conservatives to govern our country in the last election. Ohh but they feel 'entitled' !


Frank Buchan
said

Another non-issue brought to a mighty boil by the tinkering of small minds, to distract us from the leadership void present in all federal parties.


Paul
said

Why?Th governmet has already said that it is sending out more cencus formes then the did in the past. Just this time it is not manditory. What is the big deal? Slow few month in Ottawa.


Chris
said

This latest bumbling from the Liberals show just how far out of touch they are with the issues that matter to Canadians. We're all supposed to be so concerned that there won't be a long form that 20% of Canadians would be mandated to fill out! Wow, I stay up all night worrying about that...no, actually I stay up all night worrying about whether I can keep my job, educate my children, pay my mortgage and maybe retire one day to a position where I don't have to eat cat food. Put these Liberal clowns back in office and I would sure worry even more about all these things...what a crock. Keep trying to manufacture "issues" John, and your party will rightfully end up in the dust bin of history.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Under the wondrous Liberal plan, 80% of Canadians won't receive the "vital" long-form census, and it will still be illegal to toss it into the garbage. Speaking of garbage, listening to Liberal and NDP nibs continually defend the long-form census without EVER demonstrating, SPECIFICALLY, its importance or genuine utility has grown both tiresome and laughable. (They love to speak in meaningless superficial and ethereal terms, with nifty but hollow quotes attached.) The fact of the matter is that the "issue" has become a goofy political one desperately used by the Liberals in an attempt to gain parliamentary ground that's constantly slipping out from under them. Nobody with any intelligent and informed sense truly believes that the long-form census is "vital" to the administration of federal, provincial, and/or municipal social programs. (It's not; especially when going to only 20% of the targeted population.) Furthermore, nobody but the naive, unknowing, and unthinking believe that those whining about the "loss" of commercially useless information are doing so for any reason other than the fact that it is FREE and itself a government "entitlement" of beloved tradition. It is "vital" that the Liberals get ahold of the proper side of a real, meaty issue (albeit, an impossible task for floundering, rudderless Iggy); otherwise, they're going to put PM Harper and his Conservatives in "majority" territory. Having politically righteous, self-interested bureaucrat Munir Sheikh at his side won't help Michael Ignatieff come election time.


Barb Bull Lake NB
said

How dare the Liberals accuse the Conservatives of being dishonest with Canadains. After what the Liberal government stole from all Canadains if they are so honest why don,t they give back the millions they stole from Canadains, This is like the pot calling the kettle black!!


lc
said

Economy is on life support, troops bogged down in occupation and our rights dwindle by the day in the name of terrorism.Yet we have politicians and their followers bickering over fringe issues.The problem is both major parties have bought into the globalist agenda of the Orwellian "one world order".That being said the Harper side show in the Arctic has been so distasteful the lesser of two evils is a must.All that was missing was the "mission accomplished? banner.


Tom (Calgary)
said

Did anyone think to ask the Liberal party if the census is mandatory and there will be no threat of jail time, then what will the threat be? Isn't that the key policy difference between them and the Conservatives? Some threat vs voluntary?


Redneck Albertan
said

Once again, the Liberals show their disdain for all things private. We have a huge national deficit, a drug and crime problem that is not going away, so called "refuges" showing up on container ships, a declining manufacturing base to name just a few items and this is what their priority is. Here's a tip: Find something constructive to do that will make Canada a better place. Take on the MAJOR problems of the day with well thought out solutions and stop wasting Parliament's time with utter nonsense!


bikerborz
said

Well, at least the Liberals are showing their true colors. After having filled out one of those invasive long-form census forms, my only response to this bill is "Never again!" The Government does not need to know anything about me beyond my tax information, my "name, rank, and serial number." All else is none of their business. Hire private contractors like Ipsos-Reid or somebody.


Peter in MB
said

Mr. John McCallum with identity theft on the rise in Canada can you guarantee me that the data base will not get hacked into like the gun registry has been. And my information will not be stolen or fall into the wrong hands? If my identity is stolen will you give me compensation? If the answer is no! Then you are not getting my information sir. When you liberals don’t trust me (a law abiding hunter) with owning guns! I see no reason why I should trust you with my personal privet information. A Good day to you sir.


Alexandria
said

Where does Mr. McCallum get the idea that low income and minorities will not fill in the voluntary census forum? He assumes too much and I hope he knows what assume makes of a person.He , Iggie and the rest of the Liberals are grasping at straws to try and bring down the legitimate Government of Canada. He has very little knowledge of what is troubling most Canadians poor, middle of the road,retired or rich.


charlie
said

Great campaign slogan for you John - vote for us and don't forget to tell us how many bathrooms you have in your house. This will win almost as many votes as Dion's - vote for us and we will increase your taxes to pay for all those beloved for green programs. And they say the Liberals have lost touch with Canadians!


JS Toronto
said

What utter stupidity. How can the government force people to provide personal information in a free country? The Liberals are being very "liberal" when it comes to the Charter of Rights. We're guaranteed security of person, freedom of expression, and freedom from government coercion by that sacred document.

The PM and the Conservatives have certainly done the right thing in making the census voluntary. Government can pay for information if it wants it that bad like any other focus group, polling company, or research firm.


David
said

Finally the Liberals are being proactive. A little more and we may rid ourselves of the right wing continual erosion of our great country.


Irritable Canadian
said

You think that's bad? I just got a letter in the mail from the LPC asking me to fill out there survey... one of the questions asks me to agree or disagree w/ this statement: "Canadians are not capable of effectively managing their personal finances". I was like what the heck?! So the Libs basic premise is Canadians are too stupid to know how to manage their own money. Nice.


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