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Signage marks Statistics Canada offices in Ottawa on Wednesday, July 21, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

Panel calls for compromise on long census

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CTV News Channel: Ian Mackinnon, NSC
The chair of the National Statistics Council says it is important to move beyond the arguments of scrapping the mandatory form and set recommendations that can balance the needs of both sides and move forward with a solid census that will serve the needs of all Canadians.
CTV News Channel: Jodi Shanoff, Angus Reid
The Sr. vice-president of public affairs with Angus Reid says census surveys are rarely on the minds of Canadians and most do not have an opinion on the issues with the census at this time.

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Signage marks Statistics Canada offices in Ottawa on Wednesday, July 21, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Signage marks Statistics Canada offices in Ottawa on Wednesday, July 21, 2010. (Sean Kilpatrick / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Date: Mon. Jul. 26 2010 8:39 PM ET

A federal advisory panel is proposing a compromise in the debate over the mandatory long-form census: Keep the form, but drop the threat of jail time for those who don't fill it out.

The National Statistics Council, the government-appointed advisory body to the chief statistician, says the data collected through the long form is key to tracking changes in society and the economy.

The council urged the Conservative government on Monday to reverse its plan to scrap the mandatory long form, a decision that has triggered an unexpected uproar from government, non-government and business organizations since it was quietly announced in June.

But the council agreed with the government that Canadians shouldn't face potential jail time or fines for refusing to share personal information, and suggested those penalties be removed from the Statistics Act.

Privacy concerns are at the heart of the census dispute, with critics of the long form arguing it forces Canadians to divulge highly personal information that could be misused. But long form supporters say the information is required for research, planning and policy work.

"The debate is being polarized in a way that is not helpful," warns sociology professor David Murakami Wood, a member of The Surveillance Studies Centre at Queen's University.

Those against the long form insist that asking personal questions is in and of itself an infringement on privacy, but what really matters is what's done with the information, Murakami Wood told CTV.ca on Monday afternoon.

Once collected, the information isn't identifiable, which means it poses no threat to privacy, said Murakami Wood, who also serves as managing editor of Surveillance & Society, the international journal of surveillance studies.

"The government doesn't keep a big database of people's habits," he said.

Overall, he said, privacy standards are more stringent in Canada than in many other countries, including the U.S. What's more, the census methods have been cleared by the privacy commissioner.

The controversy has led many to worry that Statistics Canada will lose its reputation for remaining independent of politics.

Chief statistician Munir Sheikh resigned last week over the matter. His predecessor, Ivan Fellegi, expressed similar concerns.

Sheikh and Industry Minister Tony Clement will be among the witnesses testifying at a Commons committee on the matter Tuesday.

The statistics council says it's too late to review the questions in the 2011 census, but recommends a makeover for the 2016 edition to eliminate overly intrusive and superfluous questions.

In a statement released Monday, the council proposes modifying the 2016 form so that each question meets at least one of the following criteria:

  • The information is required by law or cabinet direction;
  • It is needed for small-area data uses for which there is no alternate source;
  • It is needed to create benchmarks for measuring difficult-to-reach groups and ensuring that subsequent surveys or data derived from administrative sources can be sampled or weighted to reflect accurately the overall population;
  • It is needed to gauge progress on national issues, such as the integration of newcomers; or
  • It will serve as the basis for further survey sampling of small or dispersed groups, such as people with health conditions that limit their activity.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Keith in Brampton
said

Sean - Chatham, ON: First, it is far more efficient to have one agency collect the data. Having a hodgepodge of federal, provincial and municipal agencies do this will likely result in a duplication of effort and higher taxes. I don't mind paying taxes to get the services we want, but I don't see why we should pay MORE than we need to. It's the same reason so many provinces have gone to the HST: it's cheaper to collect the two together. Also, having one agency collect the data for the whole country allows comparison across provinces and regions - something much harder to do when differenet agencies gathe rthe stats (no guarantee of same questions being asked or data compiled in the same manner). Data about a community in isolation is far less useful than data that allows broad comparisons.


Acroyear
said

"The fact is, though I am a libertarian, there are certain freedoms we need to suspend or regulate for the common good." Then you're not a libertarian, no matter what you say. This was one of the 25 points of the Nazi Party platform. "In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations." Zig Heil!! I will not surrender ANY freedom to the State just because it says it's for the "common good" You BLEEPing well PROVE to me that this data is vital and needed... then maybe I'll vouchsafe it to the State... and only the State. But just because some bureaucrat with a vested interest and his job on the line tells me I must give it so he can give it to whoever HE deems needs it... NO...WAY...


Acroyear
said

" don't think a lot of people know just how valuable the census data is and how so many companies and businesses depend on that information being accurate." Which is EXACTLY my objection. If Stats Can kept it's stats purely for governments, or for accredited university/college research I'd not object so much. It's the fact WalMart and Starbucks and anyone else who wants to figure how many more pennies they can either export overseas or suck from us can use this data. If it's so blasted important for governments, than make us ALL fill it out, but keep it TOTALLY restricted. If businesses want this data, they can pay some polling company to get, and I can hang on them if I wish. And don't give me that garbage about them using it to CREATE jobs... 200,000 jobs have been "out-sourced"...they use it to find out who to sell to... NOT who to employ! It SICKENS me that Stats Can got into bed with business and that such incredibly personal data, regardless if they know who I am or not, is handed out to businesses like it's candy!


Jaid in Toronto
said

If we get all this bickering about whether this census form should even exist or not, why not do an analysis that tests how much more information we get in the long census form in comparison to all systems combined that are already in place in the government?If this long form census can be proven such that it cannot gather any new information that can aid the government, then I will agree with its decision to be scrapped.


Bill
said

Leaving the politics out of this (if at all possible!?) I personally find the long form far too invasive. The national census is supposed to be about finding out demographics: how many people live where, of what ethnic background, language, employed-retired-unemployed-student-etc, ages, genders. NOT how many bathrooms you have, what foods you buy, etc. The long form has evolved in the past 20 odd years to become a marketing questionaire not a national census tool. Time to retrun statscan to its function and let business gather its own marketing info for itself. By the way, for those who question how I know about the long form? Simple. I was born in 1920 and have filled it out 5 times.


Jim-Surrey
said

Our privacy needs to be respected and the long form asks way too much.Eliminate the personal questions and there should be no problems.How many times we pee or have sex is NO one business.If you are a true Canadian, age, head count in house, retired or employed or on benefits is all that needs to be known AND it should not be passed out to whoever thinks they are entitled to it.Just like our SIN number it is used for too many things, it is suppose to only be used to pay taxes not for credit checks etc!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike in Waterloo
said

A libertarian does not believe in the use of force against their fellow human beings.Knowing how many bathrooms you have and making it illegal not to tell the government that info, is not minimal coercion.A Libertarian believes in privacy, not government snoops.


Northst*r
said

Lots of smart people living in Canada these days...Volunteer and Not to be fined is NOT the same look it up, you seem to be good with your PC...I say and always said it has to be Mandatory period..


mike
said

j from sask i am not highly educated person BUT when you begin to say things like what you have said we are in trouble. to single out afew for the better ment of the whole is dangerous no gov should EVER be able to force us to disclose what we concider private just to help it self it sets a very very bad example. and to many groups seem to be getting this info and yes i have answerd one of these. the good of the many DO NOT OUTWAY THE GOOD OF THE FEW>


Sam C
said

Some critics argue that the same -- or similar -- information is available from other sources, like surveys, etc. Frankly, I prefer to trust an agency like StatsCan, rather than whoever may be sponsoring a survey. StatsCan collects data in a very scientific way, and endeavours to eliminate bias in their studies. The same cannot always be said for surveys and other methods of data collection.


Jim Lad
said

"A federal advisory panel is proposing a compromise in the debate over the mandatory long-form census: Keep the form, but drop the threat of jail time for those who don't fill it out. "That's exactly what the government has proposed.


Mark
said

Hmmmm.....So in other words....make it voluntary.


D. Haynes
said

While this is a complex matter, there are two issues of particular interest: first, the Conservatives' motivation for the discontinuing the long form, and, second, the impact of the decision on productivity. While the Conservatives claim the motivation is invasion of privacy there has been no data presented to support this and even if there were such an argument could be applied in numerous other areas where it hasn't for obvious reasons. If privacy concerns are NOT the reason for nixing the long form census, what is? The answer to that is all too clear in the Conservatives' approach to governing, namely to subvert the evaluation of ideologically driven social policy. In regard to productivity, this move illustrates all too well why Canada has such an abysmal record in this area as abundant and accurate information is the very foundation of productivity.




Keith in Brampton
said

@ Trevor in the Hat: the National Statistics Council is NOT the committee the opposition wants to recall MPs in order to set up. It is a standing, non-partisan advisory group. From the StatsCan website: "The National Statistics Council advises the Chief Statistician of Canada on the full range of Statistics Canada’s activities, particularly on overall program priorities."


Richard in Ontario
said

Do the people that want the Long Census form mandatory really believe that all the answers received will be truthful or accurate. I filled one out one time and some of the questions were about something in my history, so I just guessed to get the form filled out. I think making it voluntary will produce far better results. This panel recommending removing fines or jail time for not filling it out seems to cater to the hug a thug Liberal mentality.


Keith in Brampton
said

RK in MB nailed it. Doug # BC: the information is used in aggregate form to plan for our future as a nation. Canada didn't get to be as great a nation as it is by fluke. Yes, arguably it could be much greater if we had better politicians, but it WILL be much worse if we have weaker stats to use for planning. So many people get on here and rant about their rights and freedoms, but I seldom hear any talk about their responsibility, as citizens, to the rest of us. Filling out the census, whether long or short form, is a civic duty. I agree that jail time is ludicrous, but fines are still needed if anyone is to take the term "mandatory" seriously. And the long form absolutely must be mandatory if we want reliable data.


syko
said

If we need good data to exist as a country, then lets ask 100 questions. Maybe 200 questions. This country spends serious money on health care. Lets make everyone answer 50 questions about their present and past health status. After all having all that valuable data will be good for the country. The census is about counting people. Not about collecting every detail of their lives.


Bruce Fast
said

The long form needs to be mandatory not to get sufficient data, but to get sufficiently accurate data. If a significant group of people, say environmentalists, decide not to fill out the form, then an important voice is missed out. I still say that the long form should be mandatory, but that an individual should have an appeal process where he voices his specific concerns, whether they be religious or privacy concerns, and let that person be exempted from the specific questions that pose a moral problem for him/her. There will be very few who are willing to hassle all of that, and the data will be as rich as possible without stomping on the sincerely held beliefs of a few individuals.


Chris
said

I believe the long form to be far, far too invasive and to require far too much personally identifiable information.

I will NEVER voluntarily complete one and would consider a Charter challenge if anyone tried to jail me for refusing to fill it out.

Like most things the Fiberals did in their 40 years of wallowing in the public trough, I find the compulsory completion of this form highly offensive and very much against the greater good of Canada.

I have heard all the left wing whining about why it so good for us all -- and I just don't buy it.

Axe the requirement to complete it. Axe the form altogether.

If you want statistical data that is one thing, but to make it personally identifiable in any way is absolutely improper and contravenes dear King Pierre's own Charter of Rights.


DUH
said

I agree with the Federal government in eliminating the long form of the census. To me it is an invasion of privacy and asks for personal information that I am not prepared to send out to anyone or to anywhere. I am disgusted with all this excrement coming out over everything that this government says or does. Give it up! The bottom line is concern about how many employees will lose their cushy federal jobs, even though we taxpayers pay for an overemployed, unionized federal government.

JFJ
said

There was a time when there was no Statistics Canada.


TJ
said

Census? What is that? Never ever filled one out, never will.


Scott Johnson
said

I have to disagree with RK in Manitoba. Information on your income tax speaks of revenues and liabilities (more specifically, financial responsibilities). The taxation process is required to fiscally manage the nation's business. The census is completely different. Many questions on the last census asked questions that were clearly on consumer spending habits, and heavily scented with the needs of the marketing sectors of big business. Schooling, healthcare, social services and other government directed agencies can easily gather relevant stats from thier sources (identity blocked medical records, Revenue Canada, provincial licence and business service departments). Unfortunately, statistics needed for marketing strategists should be gathered by the business sector. Statistics Canada should restrict its gathering to demographic, population distribution growth and movement patterns and social shifts (ie family structure shifts and size): The rest leave to other departments that routinely gather information for big brother (both provincial and Federal).


Ryan
said

The long form questionnaire is not a census. It is a survey taken against a subset or sample of the population. A census by definition is a count of the entire population or data set. It is ironic that someone suggesting those without a statistical background should not comment on this issue should confuse the two. Everyone should be entitled to their opinion on the need for the long form questionnaire. They are also entitled to their opinion on the types of questions asked. The government should not be allowed to ask anything and everything in a mandatory census or survey. Lastly if a voluntary survey are so 'useless' one questions the use of any surveys. Statisticians use voluntary surveys for a bulk of their work. Is all that work bunk? As with any survey or question the results you get will depend on how you frame the question!


Jim in Ottawa
said

I believe that as long as all sides can stop twisting this into a political issue, a compromise can be reached that is acceptable to all stakeholders.


Bob,Calgary
said

It seems to me that a lot of "interest" groups , including the governments of Ontario(Liberal) and Manitoba(NDP) want the long form census and I assume that these groups would get the results for free or with a nominal charge. Why is there not a user pay principle in play here that people who use the results pay through the nose for the data? People who argue that the results are critical for planning purposes should be happy to pay for the data they use. On a lighter note I hope the City of Calgary isn't using such data for planning because from what I've seen their planners couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag.


Sean - Chatham, ON
said

RK in MB, educational programs etc in schools are purely the responsibility of the Provinces under the Constitution. As such, it should not be the responsibility of the Federal Government to collect data and information from Canadians at large for the purposes of a regional result. IF the provinces want this information, let them get it themselves.As for Community Centres, again, that's far from the Federal level of responsibility. IF a COMMUNITY decides they need a "Centre" for a particular use, that is their call and their responsibility and their first level of assistance is Municipal, then Provincial. Again, if these levels of government want the statistics to support this kind of investment, let THEM collect it in the appropriate areas.In the end, any information collected by the Federal Government should be exclusively for Federal Programs that benefit the nation as a whole, and should not be provided to anyone other than the Federal Government. This means that Special Interest Groups can go find their own stats too.


IC in Calgary
said

RK in MB says: You tell them more on your Income Tax return!!!----------not even close! The tax form does NOT ask what time i leave for work, how many bathrooms are in my house or what colour underwear i've got on. The information from the SHORT form has everything StatsCan needs - the long form is just superflouous and intrusive MEANINGLESS questions.


James T
said

Useless recommendations. In my opinion, the panel - if they really wanted to help - would have made completing the census mandatory, but restricted the length and question areas. The polls are coming out, and Darth Sweater Vest is on the wrong side of this one. I'm just not sure what he thought he could gain by this, other than to put out a very think smokescreen under the cover of which to do something we the people will like even less.


J from SK
said

@ Doug: Thanks for an intelligent reply that didn't devolve into political screaming. But if you enjoy your freedoms you need to do little things like this census, to keep the "pointy-headed academics" in the know, so they can keep doing their thing. If you want to get by without their help (social programs, science & technology, entertainment, military) then go live in the woods and send me a homing pigeon to let me know how that works out for you. Or, get with the program and recognize that some people know better than you - the trick is to only force your hand when it's necessary.


Peter
said

I don't think a lot of people know just how valuable the census data is and how so many companies and businesses depend on that information being accurate. We are all impacted, directly or indirectly, by how the data is utilized and interpreted by the business world.

Intelligent Liberal
said

I agree that a compromise is the best solution. CON supporters refusing to comply with the long form should be thrown in jail, but allowed out once they complete the form. Since hard tipped pencils or pens could be used as a weapon, wax crayons would be provided to fill out the form.


Chris
said

The census long form doesn't do any good!!! It's useless, private, intrusive information!!! The only information the government needs from me should be: Name, Title (or rank), SIN number, Date of Birth, and Place of Birth. If soldiers are only required to give the enemy this information, than citizens should only be required to give it to the government as well... DONE... END OF STORY!!!


Greg in Cambridge
said

Just get rid of it.Listen to the People for a change and not other politicians who just want to make political gain.


RK in MB
said

The long-form census needs to be mandatory for the information to be useful. Voluntary census forms will not have sufficient response or information to be of any use. If there is no penalty for not filling it out, it becomes voluntary. We should be educating people on why they need to fill it out. Anyone who has access to US TV probably saw the "Count yourself in" campaign which tried to educate Americans on why it is important to fill the census out. Think of it this way, not filling it out could deprive your children or grandchildren of certain programs at school. Maybe even a community centre down the street. It's not that bad to give some information to the government. You tell them more on your Income Tax return!!!


Doug # BC
said

You don't have to be sorry for your position "J from,SK". Just accept the fact that a lot of people don't agree with you.When all if this settles there will be some people happy.Others,not so much. All the debate ir really about is which ones will be happy,and which ones won't. I do NOT accept your explanation.PERIOD.Just the mere fact that you may understand statistics (at the university level) is NOT enough to convince me that you have a right to intrude into my personal life.Not do I believe that intrusiion necessary "for the greater good"Especially soince the bureaucrats who collect and analyze these statistics for Stats Canada have already said they can get the same results without imposing sanctions against hard working Canadians who like their privacy. As it looks from here,this so compromise is very close to what the Conservatives asked for when this debacle came to light.If there are no fines and no jail terms,then the long form of the census is essentially voluntary.THAT makes me a happy camper.If these statistics are used by business groups,politicians,special interest lobbyists,religous groups,and others that we do not know about,I suggest we let them gather their own statistics.AND pay for them. Besies all that,there are to many polls telling us what we think,or what we should think.How about we send the statisticians and pointy headed academics out in the real world to do real work? We really need more skilled people who can build this nation.Not a bunch more ideologists who think they can tell the rest of us how to live in a "FREE SOCIETY". And finally,even if a change is made,there is no obligation to stick with that change if it proves to be unworkable.Voluntary is worth a try,at the very least.


Trevor in the Hat
said

The way I understand it is the Conservatives wanted to make the long form voluntary and send it out to more Canadians making it more likely to get the same number of responses. The The advisory panel want a "compromise" where they still send out the long form but remove the threat of jail sentence of a fine which in essence makes the long form voluntary. The opposition makde a huge cry about the changes to the long form and then after spending a bunch of money and calling people back from vacation for an advisory panel, they give the conservatives exactly what they wanted in the first place and call it a "compromise" Just goes to show how the opposition is just looking for sound bite without any real plan whatsoever.


J from, SK
said

Sorry but anyone who doesn't understand how statistics work (at a university level) should quiet down about their favourite political party. The fact is, though I am a libertarian, there are certain freedoms we need to suspend or regulate for the common good. The Census is one such consideration - it needs to be comprehensive and accurate. Letting people not fill it out undermines our national stability and economic security (Cons) while leaving us horribly uninformed in areas such as social programming (Libs/NDPs). Is everyone happy now?


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