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Auditor General Sheila Fraser makes a statement regarding auditing Members of Parliament during a press conference on Parliament Hilll in Ottawa, Tuesday, June 15, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

AG to examine MP expenses after deal reached

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CTV National News: Robert Fife on the audit
It took weeks of resistance, but Auditor-General Sheila Fraser has reluctantly been invited to look through how MPs are managing taxpayer money.
CTV News Channel: Rob Oliphant, Liberal MP
A Liberal MP says most MPs will be happy to have the help of the auditor general in order to ensure what they are doing is correct. He says it is unlikely MPs have anything to hide but rather have a fear the things will be sensationalized in the press.
Power Play: Auditor-General Sheila Fraser
Auditor-General Sheila Fraser says she hoped to have been able to complete her audit of MP expenses before the end of her term, but her intention was never to investigate MP's personally.
Power Play: Robert Fife and Greg Weston
CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife and Greg Weston of Sun Media talk about the reasons that forced MPs to allow the auditor-general to look at their expenses, and why the MPs were so reluctant to do so.
CTV News Channel: Monte Solberg, strategist
A former Conservative cabinet minister says there was enough public pressure that made the decision to allow the auditor general to open the books inevitable and it will bring some accountability to MPs expenses.
CTV News Channel: Sheila Fraser and Marcel Proulx
Auditor General Sheila Fraser and Quebec Liberal MP Marcel Proulx discuss the change of heart that will give Fraser access to some MP expenses. She will look at the House's management practices to ensure financial controls are working properly.

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Auditor General Sheila Fraser makes a statement regarding auditing Members of Parliament during a press conference on Parliament Hilll in Ottawa, Tuesday, June 15, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Auditor General Sheila Fraser makes a statement regarding auditing Members of Parliament during a press conference on Parliament Hilll in Ottawa, Tuesday, June 15, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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Date: Tue. Jun. 15 2010 5:50 PM ET

After much fuss, members of Parliament have decided to let Auditor General Sheila Fraser go through their books.

The deal was announced by Conservative House leader Jay Hill, Liberal Marcel Proulx and Fraser on Tuesday, just before the House of Commons goes into its summer recess.

MPs from all political parties have been hurt in public opinion polls for their unwillingness to allow the auditor general to examine their $500 million in annual parliamentary spending.

The powerful Board of Internal Economy -- an all-party committee -- had rejected Fraser's request to audit their budget.

The public outcry appears to have led to them to change their minds.

"The House of Commons spends over $500 million a year," Fraser told CTV's Power Play in an interview Tuesday evening. "It has been 20 years since an audit was done, and we think it's important that all sectors of government and Parliament be subject to audit eventually."

Fraser said that with one year left in her term as auditor general, the final report will be issued by her successor.

Fraser was adamant Tuesday that the performance audit is not, and was never intended to be, a probe of MPs' expenses. However, some expenses will be included in the audit as part of her overall examination of management processes and administrative systems and practices.

"It really is an audit of the administration of the House of Commons, so basically the work done by the clerk and her staff," Fraser said. "So issues like human resource management, security here on the Hill and of course financial management and control."

Though he appeared with Fraser to announce the agreement, Hill maintained that his party still believes the measure is unnecessary.

"It has always been our position ... that the checks and balances and reporting mechanism -- the audit that already takes place, the ongoing efforts of our public servants in financial services -- perform the necessary tasks of ensuring the protection of Canadian tax dollars," he said. "Our position has not changed."

He also expressed the legal opinion that the auditor general does not have the mandate to audit the House of Commons, which Fraser has disputed.

"We still believe that," said Hill.

"(But) in the interest of public interest, we're going to take this extra step."

Hill also seemed to think that political forces were behind the public's anger on the issue.

"What we saw was an increased campaign of misinformation that we've all referred to at different times," he said.

"We felt it important to clear up that misinformation and get the facts before Canadians."

A recent poll suggested four out of five Canadians believe MPs are breaking the rules on expenses.

It comes following political spending scandals in the U.K, Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia.

Fraser said it was "unfortunate" that the performance audit was misinterpreted as a probe of MPs' expenses. But she did point out that she will ensure that systems and practices that govern expenses are being followed. And if they are not, she expects to discuss her concerns with the MP or MPs in question, as well as the clerk, who oversees spending.

"If there was widespread disregard of the rules, then obviously we would go much further," Fraser said. "There would be more of a forensic-type audit and go into a great deal of detail to see if things have been done improperly."

And if she found something very serious?

"If we thought that it was potentially criminal wrongdoing, yes absolutely we would call in the cops."

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viral venus
said

Given the horrifying arrogance of these politicians, the auditor general should approve any expenditures before they even happen, never mind having to beg permission to check on how these fools have already wasted our tax dollars and abused our trust..


Larry Israelson
said

Cant wait for report so we know who not to vote for in the next election! Toss out these crooks

Bob,Calgary,Alberta
said

For 20 years I managed internal audit departments in very large companies and not once did I have to "negotiate" with our "clients" over the scope of my audits. I smell a rat here in that the AG seems to be pandering to the fears of these privileged MPS by limiting the scope of her review. If that ever happened to me I would have gone directly to the Audit Committe of the Board of Directors and called these malingerers out. Of Course in the case of the AG the malingerers are her boss "PARLIAMENT". There is definitely something wrong when MPs can interfere in the scope of an audit. The Libs,NDP and the Cons are all in this together. We elect underqualified, unethical, manipulative people as MPs so we get what we deserve. "CR-P".

Diane
said

For public servants, these expense accounts are just not acceptable. These people work for the taxpayer not a private corporation and have no right to deluxe accommodation etc.This ties in with pension reform as well. Before they make the middle class pay more the unrealistic LA LA land pension and benefit package for past MPs has to be reformed and reduced to something more similar like what most Canadians receive after a life time of working.I would urge everyone to contact their MPs in all parties and at all levels of government. This has just gone too far..we are being taxed to death while a few reap the benefits abd fritter away OUR money.

scott
said

You and I both know for a fact that the only reason our politicians are against an audit is that they do not want the canadian taxpayers to find out just how much of our hard earned tax money is being used to pad their wallets. As history has shown time and time again, when you allow the privaleged few uncontrolled access to hundreds of millions of dollars, these immoral, unethical people show no shame in helping themselves to however much money they want. These MP'S have no fear because they know that AG can not do a thing to stop them. Trust me, the spending scandal in Bitian will be pocket change compared to what the MPs in Canada are stealing. But like I have said before, they will laugh all the way to the bank because this is Canada.


Kim
said

As an employee of a private company my expense report can be audited by the Canadian Revenue Agency in a company tax audit, if any of my expense are found to be non-business expenses they will not be deductible to my employer, they will be fined along with myself, this is Canadian law, why are MPs exempt from audits........this is an unacceptable double standard, another reason why we have no faith with these people.

George V.
said

The MP's negotiated with the AG what she could audit and what she couldn't. That leaves a lot of ambiguity and distrust. It should all be audited, or none, there should be no cherry picking. This audit clears up nothing, we are still where we were at the start.

Sue
said

I would really like to know how much Canadians paid for 4 years of a full-time hair stylist for Harper. What's the average wage for a hair stylist? To have one all to yourself must cost at least a hundred thousand per year. Did his hair cuts cost us 400,00.00? Harper's little secrets.

sporty9090
said

As one of 35,000,000 Canadians who believes he pays too much tax and often worries about the value I get for my tax dollar I say this. Not only should the AG audit MP expenses EVERY year, her decision to do an audit should not require committee approval or a special invitation.Her audit should include specific transactions. Every taxpayer lives with the knowledge that CRA could come knocking at any time. That knowledge is supposed to keep us honest in what we report to the government. I think that as taxpayers, we can expect MP's to live to that same standard (or I believe a tougher standard!)


Al en NL
said

The fact that she had to negotiate a deal would lead me to believe they do have something to hide. Jay Hill is a foolish man if he believes that the bureaucrats working for him are actually accountable. It is time for these people to realize that there is no accountability in government when it comes to taxpayers money. We as voters have to make them accountable.

David Highsted
said

Well said Mr. Conacher. Ms. Fraser will not be looking into the individual public funds spending habits of the MPs and that's a shame. The members are getting a break and all the huffing and puffing and blaming partisan politics and misinformation is nothing but petulance at having to be accountable. Hopefully the vetting by the AG's office will become more encompassing in the future and on a more regular basis - say one every two years minimum.

JR from Pointe Claire
said

Pretty pathetic comments from HILL "We felt it important to clear up that misinformation and get the facts before Canadians." What a bunch of bunk! He, along with the remaining MP's, do not want anyone outside of their offices looking at his or their expenses. To all of us out here - give us a break! Open your books and let us see what you are wasting our hard earned money on!

daryl
said

WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO HIDE? The AG audit will be nothing short of a whitewash. One set of rules for our elected officals and an entirely different set for the rest of us. OH CANADA, or should I say Parlimentarians, who stands on guard for thee?


Keith in Brampton
said

Round One to the AG. But if the MPs think this will get us off their backs, then they underestimate the voting public. We should get full disclosure, or toss out every sitting member next election.


CraigW
said

It must be nice to be one of the haves. They get to negotiate things like providing documents the people of Canada have a right to and when they feel like showing up for jail once they've been sentenced for a crime. Accountability can be such an inconvenince for these people.


Doug in Nova Scotia
said

Right on, RK!


mac
said

Accountability and what is acceptable practice today in 2010 - as what was acceptable in 1990, 1980 1950 etc etc is not now.. ALL MPs(there is no partisianship here) must be accountable.... period - and the AG's persistence is a start...


Duff Conacher
said

This compromise is not acceptable because it allows for ongoing secrecy in MP and Senator spending -- the spending of individual MPs and Senators must be audited to ensure that they are getting value for money spent, and not hiring family members or friends using the public's money.Not only does federal Auditor General Sheila Fraser have the power to audit the expenses of MPs whether or not they invite her to do so, a strong argument can be made that she is legally required to do the audit at least every few years.The Auditor General Act states that the Auditor General "shall make such examinations and inquiries" needed "to report as required by this Act" (section 5). The Act requires the Auditor to audit the "public accounts" (which includes all the money spent by federal government institutions, including the House of Commons and Senate) and issue reports on whether the public's money is being spent in ways that are proper, efficient and waste-preventing.The Act also states that the Auditor General has the right "to information that relates to the fulfilment of his or her responsibilities" (subsections 13(1) and (4)) so she clearly has the right to look at MP expenses.The Auditor General does not have the resources to audit the entire government every year and so most of the main institutions are audited every few years.Given that it has been 20 years since MPs were audited, the Auditor General will essentially be failing to fulfill her legal duties if she waits any longer to audit every dollar of the $500 million spent by MPs and the House of Commons annually.Hope this helps,Duff Conacher, CoordinatorDemocracy Watch

Frank Buchan
said

So, they agreed to expose the stuff that is least likely to embarrass them. And they think this will restore trust?Public money should be fully open to audit, at all times, for all parties and all aspects of governance.


RK
said

Why is the AG having to cut deals to look at the books. OK listen up MPs. It's our money, not yours. Wrap your head around this! We want to know how our money is being spent. If you don't like that, too bad. You can always go work somewhere else.


PBW
said

Being hurt in the opinion polls because they were unwilling to let the Auditor General audit their books is nothing to what will hurt MP's in reality if it turns out their use of expense accounts paid for by taxpayers approaches even 50% of those British MP's who treated the public purse as their own. The idea of perquisites being needed dates from a time when person with a private income gave up his or her time to sit in parliament. With today's high salaries, MP's do not need perquisites, and a fully transparent expense accound, regularly vetted by a publicly accountable auditor, is all they should have. If they want fancy meals or any other service on The Hill, then the full cost should be borne (maybe it is, I am ignorant on that point) by the members, out of their own pocket. I await the Auditor General's report with great impatience.


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