Bill would give Ontario grandparents more rights

Bill 33, drafted by Niagara Falls Liberal MPP Kim Craitor, received second reading in the Ontario legislature on Thursday. The proposal will now go to a committee for further examination.

If passed, Craitor's proposal would require courts to consider the relationship of children to their grandparents as part of a custody case involving the kid's parents, or if a parent dies and the grandchildren are taken away.

The legislation would also guarantee grandparents court-ordered visitation rights.

"We often forget that we must speak for the grandchildren, and that's what my bill does," Craitor told the legislature on Thursday.

"Far too often, as many of you may know in this House, after a messy divorce, for example, access to children of the marriage has unfortunately been used as a lethal weapon.

"Spite, hatred, revenge and anger can be an awful thing, but no child, no child, should be used as a weapon."

Craitor says many seniors are on fixed pensions and don't have the money to go to court to fight for standing or rights.

The bill, the third time Craitor has introduced it, received support from all parties on Thursday.

"I cannot imagine being refused access to Olivia, my granddaughter, my own flesh and blood, and I hope that I never have to go through that," said Progressive Conservative MPP Joyce Savoline. "Grandparents bring so much to a child's life."

New Democrat MPP Cheri DiNovo asked why the bill wasn't introduced by the governing Liberals, instead of as a private member's bill.

About 75,000 grandparents in Ontario are denied access to their grandchildren, meaning more than 100,000 grandchildren have been cut off from their grandmother and grandfather, CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss reported.

Craitor says he has received thousands of emails, letters and phone calls from constituents in support of his bill.

He said similar laws to protect grandparents already exist in Alberta, British Columbia, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and the Yukon.

With a report from CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss

Comments are now closed for this story

John in Ontario
said
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RV says "The rights of the Children take precedence already in any family court proceeding"

Not in any family court I've ever seen. They operate in the best interest of the adult female parent first. Only after her interests are secured do they shovel a few crumbs the kids, and dads way.

Paul
said
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I would assume this bill is for families when parents are splitting up.

We've decided to keep one grandparent away from our child... to protect that child's interests and not be maniputlated by money or that the child is exposed to the grandparents' double standards.

Judy Bear
said
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I have been trying to get custody of my granddaughter from Alberta for over a year now; with a lawyer. She is in foster care with Childrens Aid, and even though I have a lawyer and have tried to get custody, they won't even consider me. Court hearing, after courting hearing it is delayed, stalled, or postponed. How can I use Ontario Law to help me get my granddaughter from the Alberta Courts? Grandchildren should stay with family, not be put in the foster care system. Anyone having any further avenues for me to go through, I would greatly appreciate nowing where else I can turn for help. It's about time grandparents are recognized for their role in their grandchildren's life. Judy Bear

Ellen
said
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Thank you. Wonderful news.

Grandparents should have access. The custodial parent should be held accountable for that access.

Now if we could get 50/50 custody as the immediate status in any separation and divorce, the children could have both their parents too, mother and father, and also the grandparents.

No one separates or divorces from the children, just the spouse. The children should not be kept from anyone.

Shawn
said
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Let's make this simple, if the child is mine, it is my right to determine who can see my child and when.

This is unacceptable to me. While I don't have these issues in my home, I do not care to have the government tell me that some one else has 'rights' to my child.

If I am ever unfortuanate enough to go through this issue with my kids, I would move myself to the US.

Way to go Ontario lets see what else you can screw up.

KB
said
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I will never understand why our governments are pushing to control our lives in every possible aspect. I believe it is up to the individual to decide what is in the best interest of their children.

BP in Windsor
said
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To those that think a parent knows best for their children, I can think of some parents I know due to drug addiction etc. have left the kids to the grandparents to raise, doesn't that give them rights, what about the couples that visit the grandparents on a regular basis, many times using grandma as a free babysitter, then the marriage goes south and now the custodial parent denies access to the ex spouses parents only for spite. Its not because of anything wrong with them but because of who they are related to.

Its about time grandparents are given some standing, often they are the only stability a child knows, a safe place when mommy and daddy are busy destroying each other.

HAT
said
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As a person who has had my grand child withheld from me, It is a very empty feeling, therefore I stand behind this Minister for benefits of Grandparents rights. I know there are people who for several reasons shouldn't visit with their grand children, I am not one of those people. As a retired police officer, I have three daughters and a grandchild, I protect them, and put them above everyone else. My grand child is a wonderful person and requires everyone in the family's love and attention. My oldest daughter although refuses all members of my family and to my grand child's life, Quoting her Comment: "I want my child to only have me in the (child's) life". I feel that statement is not healthy...

** SUGGESTION ** All Grand Parents (Other Relations) who wish visitation rights to their Grand Children after the Custody Battle, (Must file within that Court Year). Which would be examined at the time of the conclusion of the Court Trail. But must submit during the course of the trail this "General Grand Parents Application Form" at the time of the "Custody Court Phase" accompany with a Flat Fee (ie: $200.00). Similiar to the application process of filing for a "Birth Certificates" or "Marriage Licence" with an added four major sections on the application as the follows:

** APPLICATION CLAUSES ** 1) Doctor (Grandparents GP Signature, The GP must know these persons for more than 3 years and find their that are capable to supervision children) 2) Pass - Crimial Check, 3) Personal References, 4) Parents Signature - In this section it would allow the parent to make the necessary comments on their behalf why they feel their parents should or should not have visitation rights. (Then permit the Courts make the final decision, to grant the visitation rights or refuse it.)

James Curran
said
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There seems to be some confused outrage on this stream.

The bill is being put in place to assist granparents and grandchildren in maintaining relationships.

Case in point. My best friend just died in a car accident. She had joint custody of her children and was custodial parent. As a single mom, her parents were instrumental over the past ten years in raising those children. The father's role in their lives was weekend warrior every so often and limited at best.

So now, the children have to live witth a guy who has some "issues" he has a tough time dealing with and the grandparents have zero rights.

Sorry. That just ain't right. And, that is why my MPP has faught for this legislation. Cases like that. The court is still the ones that have to decide the best interest of the child. Nothing changes in that regard.

Divorced Dad
said
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Until the government solves the problem of dad's having their visitation rights enforced. Much the same way as child support payments are enforced. I think it is rather foolish to add a law for grandparents when many dads with court orders can't even see their own kids. Fix the first problem, then there will be no need for a law for grandparents.

T
said
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Not all parents or grandparents are good role models for children.

Next thing you know there will be court cases where grandparents demand visitation two or three times a year. What if you live on opposite sides of the country? What if the grandparent was abusive to you when you were their child? Now you will have to drag their name through the court to protect your own children.

This is not going to be a pretty sight for sure. Grandparents may be biting off more than their dentures can chew on this one.

Chris Bodrug
said
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I am a grandparent of three grandchildren whom I am not allowed to see. I was not an alcoholic or abusive parent. My child just refuses to allow me access unless I support them financially. I, in no way, wish to supplant them as parents. I just want a relationship with my grandchildren. Each grandparent/parent relationship is different and I think the courts would take each one under careful consideration before the rights of the parent were denied. The rights and opinions of the children should also be taken into consideration. Many times, they want to see their grandparents, but are denied by the feuding parents.

Guy
said
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I think it's a positive and progressive step and hopefully fathers will soon be acknowledged through the systems.

merlin
said
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I'd like to know how the rights of the children will be protected.

There are children who have suffered great neglect and abuse at the hands of their grandparents. Some believe their grandchildren are trophy posessions just like exotic cars and seasonal houses. I want to know how these children will be protected under this proposed legislation.

ET
said
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This bill would jeopardize the safety and wellbeing of my children! I am a single-parent father, who won both children in a court of law, defeating the maternal grandparents as a seperate party...and you're telling me I'm going to have to go right back to court after a 5-year court battle?! NUTS!

Mickey
said
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People, people, people. The courts would not grant automatic visitation rights to grandparents. If grams is a drunk and grandpa is a loon then courts will take that under consideration. What they are trying to do is prevent decent grandparents from being denied access to their grand kids because mom and dad are bitter and twisted and are using their kids as pawns in their own little power struggles.

Harv
said
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I guess I have mixed feelings.I haven't seen my grandchildren in Ontario on 3 years.I'd love to see them,but I think it's up to the parents to raise their children. Grandparents are there to help if they need to.It's sad that some gparents aren't allowed to see them because the parents don't want to confuse the kids.I still pray that someday I'll get to see them,but I still love my daughter and her children with all my heart.And that's one thing the parents can't take away from the gparents.LOVE!I pray for any gparents that aren't allowed to see their gchildren that some day they'll get to see them and enjoy them. God bless you all.

ChrisM
said
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I strongly disagree with this bill. Parents should decide not the government. It should not be a right that GP's automatically are allowed visitation. Some of them just aren't good role models and I do believe the parents should decide this. Now if the parents aren't good parents then the courts/child services should decide that.

FR
said
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Coming from a family of a messy divorce, I know which parent I personally would or wouldn't want to have access with my children. It should be my decision to make, as I am the one raising them, parents should choose who their children are permitted access to, its their judgment! Parents should also have the right to decide who gets custody of their kids in the event of their death, why is this power being removed? are you going to start choosing where things of monetary value go as well? Parents know best where their children will feel most comfortable. This is just awfull.

Craig in Kingston Ontario
said
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Thank God my kids are teenagers! If this was introduced a few years back I can not imagine what effect it would have had on them. Unreal that the courts are forcing the issue of Grandparent's visitation rights.

Totally wrong!

mare
said
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As a BC grandparent I support grandparents having more rights. For the first five years my grandson spent more than half his time with us. This was loving and stable care while his parents worked. Then after a conflict between the parents that connection was terminated and without persistence we would now not see our grandson at all. As it is we are lucky now to be permitted a few hours every other week. This has been hurtful and confusing to both the child and to us. Having more rights means that when the parents are NOT acting in the best interests of the child by denying access, that the grandparents have rights to appeal to the court.

June
said
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Bad idea!

The last thing you need in a divorce is 4 more people who want a piece of the child. And some grandparents are notorious for badmouthing parents--in front of the kids! Grandparents may get privileges if a family court decides it's in the child's best interests--but they should never have rights!

This isn't about love, it's about control. I say let the parents decide.

Trina
said
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My husband and I have decided not to allow his mother any access to our children due to years and years of her lies and games she played with us and with the children. No judge has the right to decide who my children are able to have a relationship with...Some grandparents are not good people...This woman for years played very hurtful games between the kids and for too many years she got away with it..Finally my husband seen through her games and decided on his own to leave his relationship with his mother and its been the best 3 years of our lives.. I would like to see any judge tell me and my husband that she has any right to my children....Right to do what...make their lives unhappy again, crying games, spoiled holidays...I think not.

Brian
said
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This bill is scary. On the face of it, I would initially agree this is a good thing. BUT, what happens when a family (Mom, Dad, Kids) has to, or wants to, move across the country for work? I can see the grandparents, if they wish, using this bills provisions to force the parents into having to bring the kids for a visit every year, or couple of months, etc. This bill needs to be fully thought out before it gets enacted. Personally I take my kids to see their grandparents as often as I can afford, but as they are in Quebec and we are in Alberta, that isn't very often unfortunately. This bill could be used to force annual or bi-annual, or more often, visits. At $3000 plus food, etc for each visit, this adds up rapidly. Then time off work, etc. Not a very well thought out bill in my mind.

Mother of Baby
said
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While I agree with the sentiment behind this Bill, this is the wrong way to go about it. It should be up to the child's parents to determine whether grandparents are "fit" to be in their child's life. I think of family members in my child's life right now, like my M-I-L who is so out of touch with today's parenting that she insists upon covering the baby in blankets in her crib; thinks nothing of giving a formula-fed newborn extra water; stinks to high heaven of cigarette smoke and can't understand why we don't want our child in her tobacco-infused house; believes pacifiers ought to be given covered in honey; the list goes on. If any court ever tried to order visitation rights for this grandparent, I would fight it with every fibre of my being. Some grandparents are reckless, or simply too out of touch, to be entrusted with a child's care.

Ry
said
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First off, has anyone even read the text of the bill (including the author of the news report)?

The rights of the Children take precedence already in any family court proceeding - as it should be. This bill just merely codifies what courts have already held inherent when in the best interests of the children.

The issue here (now think outside the box for a second), is that judges don't always hear if there are grandparents involved, and often times, they are resolved to bring their own motions before the courts. Given the costs of hiring a lawyer and adding to the complications that most family proceedings bring, it's normally not feasible.

No parent has any inherent right to their child before the courts - that's the law. Obviously, most Ontarian's naivley believe they just should have their child because their a parent. That never has been, nor will it ever be the case.

JPC
said
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Yet another example of individual rights being eroded by 'group' rights - completely idiotic and only good for lawyers...

Jason H.
said
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Just to clarify. I recognise that sometimes parents are worse for a child tha their grandparents - but I have to favour the parent's rights until said parent is established to be trouble. If we take power out of parents' hands and put it intl the state's then the state becomes the keeper of all our children.

If a parent has been found to be unfit, THEN perhaps the state could intervene and grant custody or visitation rights to that parent's parent, or the parent of their other parent. But to pass a bill that creates blanket rights for every grandparent solves nothing - it takes no one's individual context into account, but instead assumes that every grandparent is considerd equal.

Sean
said
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Rights come with responsibilities, grandparents have no responsibilities to their grandchildren (legally), and therefore should not have any rights...the exception I think may be if one parent dies. Those grandparents should have similar access to the grandchildren as they had prior to the parent dying. If this bill passes, they are opening up a bigger can of worms...so I'm sure it will pass.

D.S. British Columbia.
said
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Trust me when I tell you that this bill is not all that it is cracked up to be in many cases, but not all.
I live in BC and my stepson had court ordered visits with his grandmother (the biological fathers mother) for a few years. She was a substance abuser of all sorts and was a very bad-negative influence. She skipped many of the visits and my stepson did not want to see her from day one because of the unfortuante things that he witnessed. I couldn't imagine my kids not being able to see my parents but every situation should be different and evaluated carefully before the final decision is made.
Once this bill is passed, each situation will not be looked at and evaluated differently. Every grandparent who has caused great hardships will have the right to see their grandchildren. It is just wrong.

John in Ontario
said
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Don't give grandparents "rights"! As a 15 year vet of the teen residential care system I know you will instead of seeing kids dragged apart between two people, kids dragged to pieces between as as many as SIX people. Let a family court judge in the best interests of the CHILD not the adults.

Michelle.A
said
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This is just wrong.Not all grandparants deserve access to kids.If these grandparents are so bent on having free accesss then they should have to undergo mental evaluations and assess the history of these families.If I had have known even half about my husbands family I never would have gotten married to begin with.Its not unusual for grandparents to pump the kids for personal information.These people were unfit to have kids themselves let alone give them access to grandchildren.Once an abuser always an abuser.People also need to beware of grandparents in so called therapy programs that make people claim that they were "powerless" over their behavior.Thats an excuse to justify their bad behavior.Grandparents frequently have old fashioned ideas where verbal and physical abuse is acceptable.I dont know of too many people who keep kids away from grandparents without just cause.If these parents messed up their own kids,they dont deserve access to their grandkids.Period.

MMM
said
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Totally disagree with this bill. Courts have enough problems with the parents, throw in the grandparents and there will be chaos. If the parents can't get along for the sake of the kids, how is allowing grandparents to go to court going to help. Parents get a job in another country, can the grandparents stop them leaving? or perhaps they have issues that concern the parents. What about the grandparents who will use this as another way to "control" their adult kids. Give me a break. It's the parents who are responsible for their kids until the kid is 18, they should be able to mandate,who has influence over their kid.

Gail
said
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Many parents do not live in the same city and/or province as the grandparents. Is the responsibility to get the children to the grandparents now going to be on the custodial parent also? If the custodial parent cannot afford this, are they going to be taken to court for not allowing access? Parents have rights, as they should. Let it stop there.

Anne
said
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Yes, parents have authority over children. But in the case of a divorce, spiteful denial of grandchildren to either paternal or maternal grandparents, who previously had been involved, loving and in these children's lives, is not looking out for the best interests of the child, and simply causes them further hurt and bewilderment. Put the needs of children first in making these decisions.

Karen D.
said
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this is great news.....keep it up!

GREAT NEWS COVERAGE ON THIS SITE!!!

DAvid
said
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For every 'insane' grandparent, there is at least one 'insane' parent (usually two). All too often, access is used as a weapon in cases of divorce. Unless the parent can prove unsuitability, grandparent access should be presumed. The person making the allegation of unsuitablility should bear the burden and costs of proving their allegation. It would cut down on meritless cases going to court.

JDP
said
0 0

Would this mean that Grandparents could veto an adoption? I sure hope not.

Mark Greenberg
said
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I totally disagree with this bill.
Parents should be left to decide who can have access to their children.
The family law act already takes into account the rights of the parents and thats where this should end.
The less the state interferes in our private lives the better.

joe
said
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Its obvious by the comments I'm reading most people have lost the meaning of the words "Grandparents". Parents are the head of a family and in that respect should have some rights as far as the off springs are concerned. In the light of what society has evolved to,it might be a wise decision to listen to what GRANDPARENTS have to say.

David #1
said
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Grandparents can be a "positive" influence on a lot of children of divorce caught into a "negative" web of spite and hatred emanating from parents at war with one another.

It's really sad to see angry adults instill their baggage of hostility into their young children's lives these days. Children are innocent to "adult" anger and shouldn't be the pawns for it.

Children deserve the right to grow and learn things from their "own" perspective without being influenced by hatred shaping opinion before they can even think.

In this case it would seem it's the adults who need to grow up and do the right thing.

Anon.
said
0 0

I agree with Jason and Tracy and disagree with Don. My mother is an alcoholic and this bill scares me - I don't feel comfortable leaving my son alone with my mother for half an hour, even if she hasn't been drinking.

Common Sense
said
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Government has no place granting court ordered access to anyone's kids, unless they're a parent.

Whatever happened to parents deciding what's best for their children?

Tracy
said
0 0

I tend to agree. Grandparents can be a wonderful addition to any child's life but having said that, they can also be detrimental. The ultimate authority should lie with the parents, not the courts. Should a bill be passed so that aunts and uncles can visit nieces and nephews? Where does it end?

CB
said
0 0

I agree with Jason H. They should have some rights, But some grandparents don't deserve all rights. I think it should be up to the parents just how much they deserve.

don
said
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To Jason H. I believe it is the parent's right to challenge grandparents visitation rights if they feel there is just cause. However, it is not the parent's right to prevent these privileges period. This bill has been introduced to allow children the right to see their grandparents even though one of the parents may simply object.

Roger
said
0 0

The parents decision MUST be primary even above the wishes of grandparents. Grandparents had their kick at the can raising their kids. If for whatever reason the parents want to exclude the grandparents from their childrens lives then that must take precedence - When are we going to stop this nanny state mentality where we have to legislate everything on how people should live.

Jason H.
said
0 0

Grandparents deserve some rights, but not at the expense of parental rights. Some grandparents, frankly, are quite insane, and it's the right of the parent to determine whether or not a relationship should be developed between their parents and children.

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