Some cities pushing back against drive-thrus

It might be tempting to pull up to the drive-thru window to fill up on food and coffee on frosty winter mornings, but some Canadian communities are arguing that traffic safety and concern for the environment should trump convenience.

At some popular fast-food restaurants across the country, lineups are so long they stretch out of parking lots and spill onto public streets, and politicians are eyeing the emissions spewed by all the idling cars, trucks and sport utility vehicles.

In London, Ont., civic leaders are considering restrictions on existing drive-thrus to try to clear the air. A citizens' advisory committee is also recommending a moratorium on new drive-thrus, although the mayor is trying to strike a balance.

"I don't support a ban or a moratorium on drive-thrus ... but if there are ways in which we can improve the air quality in ways that I can't imagine at this point, I'm really open to looking at that and seeing if we can strengthen our bylaws," says Anne-Marie DeCicco-Best.

London council is gathering public input on a range of options, from banning new outlets to tightening zoning bylaws to make more areas of the city drive-thru-free. City staff have floated the idea of restricting the hours of operation for drive-thrus, and a decision is expected in the new year.

In Hamilton, Ont., where Mayor Fred Eisenberger describes himself as "reasonably anti-drive-thru," council is studying an environmental group's call for a moratorium on new drive-thrus.

In Kings County, N.S., one politician has argued that only people with decreased mobility should be entitled to get their food while in their vehicle.

"I think a pregnant mom or a disabled person or a person who couldn't get out of their vehicle or an older person, they could use the drive-thru," says Wayne Atwater. "But these people that are able-bodied men and women, I certainly don't see any reason why they can't get out of their vehicle."

Atwater pushed for a moratorium on new drive-thrus last winter, citing concerns about carbon monoxide and traffic problems, but he couldn't persuade his council colleagues.

Communities from Toronto to St. John's, Nfld., have taken steps to ensure that drive-thrus are far from certain residential streets or big enough to fit a long lineup of cars. But it's the increasing worry over greenhouse gas emissions that's prompting a second look.

Students at the University of Alberta monitored a popular Tim Hortons outlet in Edmonton last year for 54 hours and counted 3,756 vehicles idling for an average of more than five minutes each. The longest idle was more than 12 minutes.

Tim Hortons's drive-thrus tend to generate the most attention because of their popularity. In Winnipeg, cars spill out of Tim's lots onto such major thoroughfares as Portage Ave. and St. Mary's Road as drivers queue up for a java jolt.

"They're victims of their own success," said Winnipeg councillor Mike O'Shaughnessy. "You can see 15, 16 cars in line at three in the afternoon or seven in the evening."

Winnipeg has rejected two proposals for Tim Hortons this year. One was nixed because it would have interfered with a driveway of an adjacent business. The other was axed because nearby residents expressed concerns about traffic.

But O'Shaughnessy says those were individual cases and Winnipeg has no plans to crack down on drive-thrus. "We're not against Tim Hortons. We're not against drive-thrus," said O'Shaughnessy. "They're very popular."

Tim Hortons says it has taken steps to reduce drive-thru lineups, such as allowing motorists to use credit cards that don't require signatures. Many drive-thru work stations now have their own coffee maker and other equipment, so attendants don't have to walk to another part of the shop to fill an order.

The company also says it meets or exceeds space requirements in city bylaws. "We tend to find sites that are a little bit larger so we can accommodate a big parking lot and have a larger than required drive-thru," said Tim Hortons spokesperson Rachel Douglas from the company's headquarters in Oakville, Ont.

"(Drive-thrus) are almost becoming a bit of an essential service. You have parents with young children, you have elderly people with mobility issues. We find that our customers are wanting drive-thrus and are using drive-thrus and that's really what's behind the demand."

Comments are now closed for this story

julz
said

I used to work at a very busy Tim Hortons that had a drive through, and we had the same problem...the counter staff would be looking for things to do because the store itself was so slow, yet the drive through line would be around the building and spilling on to the streets. We tried many things to improve the speed of service like having extra stock, product, and equipement in the DT area, and for the most part everything ran smoothly...provided customers only ordered drinks donuts and the occasional toasted bagel. I'm not going to argue some Tim Hortons are extremely slow moving, but for the most part the snags in drive thru are a result of someone in the first or second car of that 30 car pile up comes thru and orders the entire menu twice over and refuses to pull their car around and have thier order delivered. I agree, there should be restrictions on the drive through limiting it to the items that go along with its purpose CONVENIENCE!!! 3 items or less folks, (it morks in most grocery stores)and if you're getting anything more than what can be grabbed, put in a cup, dropped ina bag and tossed out the window...park and come in where i'm sure staff would be more than happy and for the most part capable of serving you.

M. Cameron
said

It's quite ironic really when a simple idea like this gets universal approval yet the recent Bali conference on climate change stands at a stalemate thanks to big business. One again, big business is winning against the general public.

Eric
said

The levels of government in this country are starting to get much too big for my liking. All this talk about restricting hours of operation or only allowing persons with mobility issues to use them because nobody else needs to is ridiculous. If I want to stay in my car in the middle of the winter, or even on a beautiful summer day for that matter, that's none of the government's business. Drive-thrus closing their windows across Canada is not goinf to solve global warming, and it's time the government did something real to save the environment rather than picking arbitrary minor issues that only appear to make a difference because they affect so many people. Butt out city council.

Brian Fraser
said

This is a joke, I live in Winnipeg, and believe me, there are more issues with the never ending unsynchronized traffic lights and the over abundence of stop signs in this city to cry about than the drive thrus which are entirely visible and easy targets, but not as bad. Please.

J. C.
said

The problem is those that go through the drive thru and order such large orders. They go to pickup orders for others and not just themselves, or occupants in their cars. I agree that the lineups can be aggravating when those who use it order sandwiches, soups, or other lunches. The drive thru's should be used for coffee and doughnuts only, and those who want to fill large orders or food orders should go inside. The lines move very fast if the vehicles in front of us order only coffee or doughnuts for their vehicle occupants only, and not lunches or large orders.

Vince M
said

Hmmmm - drive through banking probably ought to go too.

Then I also wonder if the cities are willing to shut down access to their landfills? I have seen long waits to gain entrance there.

BC Ferries probably ought to be shut down too... now there's a line up!

Don't these politicians have nothing better to do?

R Demers
said

TIGER
We have the same problem here in Hawkesbury On the drivethru for Tim Horton is situated on our main thoroughfare and its a real pelemele in the morning and around suppertime.The hospital is just 3 blocks away and thats the street that leads to it.We also have trucks and motorways parking on the side of the street.In order to avoid that i have to drive almost 5Ks to get to my home, a real hassle But yet just what can be done i also frequent Tim although i dont use the drivethru

al
said

I have one question, if they closed the drive thrus where would the people park if anyone notices the drive thrus will have 10-20 cars in them and the parking lot is full

Eric
said

I have to say I find this possibly one of the most ridiculous articles I've read in awhile. If some guy can't be bothered to walk into the store, and instead joins the lineup that's already impeding traffic... ticket him just like anyone else would be for parking in the middle of the road.

Set a 'maximum' number of cars per drive-through and anyone who shows up afterwards, too bad, so sad, get up and go into the store.

As for restricting drive-throughs for only the 'less abled' I have to say that this is probably just as silly an idea as parking in the middle of the street. So only people with handicaps should be afforded convenience? I exercise, but that doesn't mean I always feel like getting out of my car and trudging across what can be a -large- parking lot (parking spots up front aren't always available after all) in less than enjoyable weather just because I have both legs.

Just because I'm not handicapped doesn't mean I'm any less important than they are. I'm a little tired of being afforded less rights than others based simply on the fact I can walk.

HOWEL
said

The Tim's in Sault St. Marie located next to the Greyhound Bus has a Drive Thru that cuts across the exit for the Buses! What a mess there sometimes. Plus the cars line up on the right turn lane of the street and cause a real problem. Should move that drive thru to the other end of Tim's and that might help a little. As to the exhaust fumes... Get real, there's way more fumes from cars that are stuck in traffic EVERYWHERE!

Michelle
said

Just came back from shopping. Passed a Tim Horton's which was backed up into the adjacent mall parking lot, blocking exits! I think it will take some initiative either on Tim Horton's part or city planning to make sure either that sufficient room is given for drive thrus or addressing the idling issue. I drink coffee, but you will not find me in a lineup longer than 5 vehicles. Obviously, people either have too much time on their hands to waste it in a lineup or they have an addiction to Tim Horton's coffee!

Rob
said

What if they added an idea like car washes. They build in a device to pull the cars thru the drive-thru. So people can shut the car off in the drive-thru. Also restrict the people that can use it.

Gordon Tryon
said

The donuts in Safeway are way better but if these Timites had to wait a few minutes in a cashier lineup they'd be demanding to see the manager. But idling in a car lineup, listening to the radio, talking to the kids, honking to friends, is not just tolerable, it's part of the whole ritual- they actually like it! It's the contemporary Canadian's version of going to Sunday service for donut holey communion.

Chris
said

The fact of the matter is that drive throughs, like most things, have environmental and safety impacts. They came about largely to replace the roller-skating waitresses since there were safety concerns and roller skates don't work well on snow. A limited trial with ice skates showed that cars didn't function well on skating rinks.

The bottom line is that there's a price tag to drive throughs in terms of safety and the environment. We need to decide, as a society, whether we're willing to pay for that convenience. If we are, then we can go about figuring out ways to minimize their effects. If we're not, then they get shut down.

Kanataian
said

There is no doubt that certain drive thrus are causing considerable traffc problems.

What I would suggest is if one is ever in an accident because of the traffic lines at a drive-thru, be sure to name that company, the town, city or municipality where the business is located in your statement of claim. That may be the only way for the zoning of these establishments to be forced to change.

Why should anyone have one;s safety threatened because others are too lazy to get out of their cars for a coffee. They call kids playing games lazy, geeze.

Brad
said

Service inside BC Tims' is pretty good, same for Starbucks. I find drive-thrus annoying as you always end up behind someone with no money or who orders a staggering amount of fancy coffees and holds up the line. I almost always walk-in now. People who are able-bodied should walk in; it worked fine for the whole world up until several years ago. What Tims and Starbucks need, is a separate line for people with an immediate medical need for caffeine! (credit Dave Barry). If you want the fancy girlie coffees, wait in the other line! While I'm at it, could Tims offer a dark roast coffee? Their regular is just hot dishwater.

Dylan
said

The idea that a drive thru for Tim Hortons is an essential service is laughable, ridiculous and a sad commentary on our society. If the drive thru is an essential service, it must mean we really need the coffee, donuts, bagels and whatever else Tim's serves. The fact is no one needs this stuff - it's nutritionally devoid and is a product of a lazy society. If people are going to eat this stuff, they should be made to do some exercise for it. Ban all new drive thrus and enforce anti-idling bylaws.

WJ
said

Usually the Tim's drive thru near me is so blocked, thats its actually quicker to go inside. I don't bother anymore. There is always someone in the car lane counting their timbits or making sure they get certain kinds that they wreck any convenience. I agree they should be limited hours, cost more unless you have a disabled permit! Its only coffee and bad coffee at that!

Rob
said

Carolyn is correct!! Park your car and walk inside to get your coffee. Nine times out of ten I get my cup of java before the third or fourth car in the drive-thru even gets to the take-out window. It's no wonder Canadians are getting fat; convenient fast food equals an early death!!

Steve
said

Good grief - this is proof positive that some people have WAY too much time on their hands. Is this really a pressing issue for our society? Would it be better if all the people in the drive-through were pilled into the restaurant, lined up out the door?
Let's get our priorities straight, people.

Jim
said

These issues have nothing to do with the Tim Hortons or the McDonalds.

If traffic is backed onto the street, the driver of the vehicle made that decision and should be ticketed according to the traffic law. As far as vehicles idling in the line up, what would be the difference if they parked the vehicle, left it running while they went in to get their order. Would big brother make that against the law as well?

There is no problem with the drive thrus, its the people using them.

Steve from NS
said

Seems to me if they are trying to reduce idle times, you would want more drive thru's, not less. Also, unless they close the drive thru during peak hours, it will not help.

Brian Mooney
said

The Tim's drivethroughs should only be selling coffee and dounuts, if a customer requires anything else they should enter on foot, this would greatly speed things up and reduce emmisions, as well as get some people of their duffs.

A GroundsKeeper
said

Carolyn- thank you for mentioning Tim's litter issue. I've actually written to Tim's over a year ago expressing exactly this, because I'm a grounds keeper at a large venue and it is very sad just how many Tim's cups we clean up every single day of the week from our grounds. Tim's response was such that they have a little tiny message on their cups "please don't litter" How many people have noticed that message?? I for one quit buying Tim's because I think once that cup leave's their window, it's out of sight- out of mind. Well, It's Thats not good enough. I pass 4 Tim's outlets on my 12 km drive to work. You may have guessed, yes it's Winnipeg. 3 of them with drive thru's and long line ups day and night. I'm happy for Tim's success, but, come on.. it's time they make a public effort to contribute to a cleaner Canada.

Gord J.
said

enough already. Drive-thrus provide a quick and fast dervice to those on the way somewhere. They work ...and therefore are exceeding popular. Don't mess with success.
And the concept of an envoronmental tax is ludicrous... see how many hospitals were built with billions collected in cigarette tax. Don;t go there.

Ktichener Resident
said

I turn my car off when I'm in a slow drive thru, and I don't restart it until I have a reasonable distance to drive. This annoys some people behind me even tho it takes no more time than if I kept it running. I agree tho that there should be limits: beverages and donuts only-no bagels or breakfast sandwiches, or limit it to the elderly, disabled or parents with kids, and make inside service faster so that people WANT to go inside. Then enforce anti-idling by-laws and ticket any jerk who goes inside and leaves the gas-guzzling SUV idling. Hit them in the pocket book and that will teach them to turn off their cars.

Louise Daigle
said

We have the busiest Tim's in New Brunswick. The line-ups are ridiculous, outside and indoors. Takes about 20-25 minutes to get a cup of coffee. Maybe have coffee stations where people could serve themselves would help speed up the service. Tim Horton's need to revamp their layout indoors and outdoors. The drive-thru should not be connected to the main building. Thus, you could manage the circulation better and not have everything clogged up in the same area.

graham
said

Is it the drive thru's that are the problem or cars? Which is worse, using a drive thru in the morning versus being a drivr in conjestion of any 400 series highway during rush hour. Of the two scenarios, which is the greater environmental problem. Are cars a convenience that will be banned or do we limit their use?

Mark
said

Perhaps there is a problem with traffic,congestion etc from some drive throughs and maybe there can be better planning in the future.But to call for a ban on them is ludicrous.

As for those whom are concerned about the environmental side perhaps they should leave their cars at home or sell them or use your public transit and in this way you can off set the pollution that I will be causing when I use the drive through now and in the future.

MIke
said

What about the social impact of never having to socialize by walking up and interacting with real people outside of a microphone or speaker?

Maybe retro is good. Maybe we should bring back A&W type drive ins... alas, that would never be profitable enough in our 'money first' driven society.

Bob K
said

Service inside most Timmy's is terrible and that is one reason why so many people use the drive thrus. Some cities have bylaws against idling cars in a parking lot so this could solve that problem. Arn't these drive-thrus another reason for the growing obesith problem. Too much convenience today....get off your duff people..

Paula
said

I live in Mississauga and I recently have taken the tactic that if there are more than 2 cars already in line I will walk into the store. The store I typically frequent can have up to 20 cars in line. I worry about all the wasted fuel and resutling pollution when sitting in line for 10 minutes just to get a coffee.

I think that the problem this local store suffers from is that there is constant turn over of the staff so they never get into a "well oiled" machine. I frequent another store in Woodbridge and the staff there work as a team and although line ups may be 10 cars - it moves quick.

I can see why communities are moving towards limiting drive thrus. So while we may loose some "convenience" it would likely be better for us in the long run.

Looking
said

You know, I've been saying this for years. Not so much because of the idling of vehicles as we can shut them off IF we are really concerned, but because of the safety complications. Tim's drive thrus have curbs down each side which cars can't get over. What if one of those cars catches fire OR someone has a heart attack waiting in line? Now you can't get out because of the curbs. I use the drive thrus less because of this. Actually I'm surprised the fire chiefs around the province haven't caught this. After all if a fire route or fire exit were blocked somebody would be in for it...

Layton
said

I love my Tim's but lets face it all those cars idling just wasting gas, and I have seen and I hate to confess committed some traffic hi-jinks getting in and out of drive thrus. So reluctantly I have to agree it's time cities or maybe even provinces do something to get it under control.

CURT
said

Add a Environmental Tax to the price of food and drink in the drive thru. If you stay in the car then you pay more nd that money could go towards worthwhile environmental projects.

Jeff
said

Specific cases are not necessary I know more than enough. Drive-thrus are ridiculous, if getting out of your car to get something you probably don't need is a serious issue to you, consider yourself lucky compared with what other people have to deal with.

Dan Gonta
said

Drive thrus should be ONLY for people with disabled permits displayed on the dash. Everyone else should get some exercise to combat the growing tide of obesity and help reduce air pollution and save money on vehicle maintenance. An idling engine does not run as hot and the acids created damage engine parts.

Carolyn
said

I'm originaly from Winnipeg, and I know all about the Tim Horton Drive-throughs... the funny part is that anytime I saw a line-up 10-20 cars deep, upon walking into the restaurant there would be no more than 5 people standing in line. I would walk out of there with my coffee long before the people in the drive through got theirs.

The other environmental issue I noticed with drive-throughs is the amount of garbage that gets carlessly spewed everywhere. Sure, patrons who don't use the drive through make garbage too, but they don't seem to be in such a rush. Its gross seeing all that garbage blowing around in the street and in the parking lots.

Brian
said

what I find frustrating is that I never use a drive thru, unless my small kids are with me. the point is, I normally park my car and walk in, only to find it takes much longer to get through the three people in line, than it seems to get through ten cars at the drive thru. it makes me want to save time and stay in my car. maybe they should try offering faster service to those who walk-in so more people will choose this option.

Joe - Ottawa
said

They should enforce by-laws to only allow people in drive-thrus for the following: Elderly or less able-bodied people, or vehicles with small children and only one adult.

Tanya
said

Thing is you can make people get out of their cars instead of going through the drive thru....but then you have them leaving their cars running in the parking lot. Which is worse?

Bill
said

The Tim Hortons on the corner of Regent and King streets in Fredericton is an absolute menace to traffic flow, pedestrians and the environment. The situation sounds much the same as in Kawartha Lakes.

CWS
said

What next???

Jeff
said

I agree with the guy form Winnipeg - Tim's especially is the victim of its own success. The problem is not the number of vehicles. I think that any drive-thru can be efficient. In the example of Tim Horton's, how about not allowing people to order sandwiches and soups at the drive-thru? That would save so much time for those of us who would only use the line for coffee, and also hopefully keep the lines moving a bit.

Charlian
said

I worked a Tim's drive thru, with an average of 200 cars per hour. We were located in a service station with limited space. there were accidents weekly because of the space provided. There was a Tims across the road. I beleive there are too many outlets placed close together. There in my opinion should be less drive thru locations.

Randy
said

If drive-thrus have to go, their convenience has to be replaced by something else. What if each fast food place had a ventilated roof over the parking area, with plastic walls that could be unrolled in rainy/snowy/windy weather? Then you wouldn't have to get wet or too cold just to get some thing quick to eat.

Chrissy
said

There is no doubt about it being a problem, we have a drive through Tim's on a main street into a small town called Lindsay, in the city of the Kawartha Lakes. Traffic is backed up all the time and blocked even by trucks parked on the side of the road to get in for a coffee. My husband said it would have been better if they had just built it in the middle of the street and cars could just stay on the road, traffic might move better. They are now building our 5th Tim's outlet on Hwy 36. It is out of control.

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