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Guite links Martin staff to spending scandal
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Thu. Apr. 22 2004 11:14 PM ET
Near the end of a long day of testimony, retired public servant Chuck Guite linked Paul Martin to the advertising spending scandal.
Guite told the Commons public accounts committee that when Paul Martin was finance minister, his chief of staff called him on two occasions to discuss communications contracts. He said they related to "many" contracts with Earnescliff, a consulting company closely linked to Martin and his team.
Guite said while former prime minister Jean Chretien and ex-public works minister Alfonso Gagliano never interfered with picking communications firms, Martin's office did.
"Mr. Martin personally, no. His office, yes -- and on many occasions," Guite said.
These calls were placed in the early 1990s, before the federal sponsorship program was created .
Guite testified he was pressed to award a contract to Earnscliffe Strategy Group by Terrie O'Leary, then Martin's chief of staff at the Finance Department.
"I remember one time, either on the telephone or in person with (O'Leary), her comment was, and I quote, 'Well, Paul would prefer (Earnscliffe),' " Guite said.
Later in the day, Scott Reid, who works in the PMO but is also a former Earnscliffe staffer, refuted Guite's testimony, saying his credibility is stretched beyond measure.
"His words cannot be taken at face value. He has to prove his claims. He has not, he will not because he cannot. They are false," Reid said.
Sponsorship questions
Asked about the sponsorship program at the start of the day, Guite denied any money was missing and called Auditor General Sheila Fraser's report misleading and inaccurate.
He also denied there was any political influence in the decisions made in awarding contracts. However, he said there was absolutely "political input."
"I want to make it very clear... the PMO, Gagliano, Minister [David] Dingwall, never suggested the name or got involved in the agency selection process," Guite said.
"Did the PMO and ministers provide input and decisions with respect to specific events that were sponsored and the allocation to specific firms? Absolutely."
Guite made his comments before the Commons public accounts committee investigating $100 million in misspending in the program, as detailed in Fraser's February report.
Later in the afternoon, Guite said whistleblower Allan Cutler "screwed around with the files" in the sponsorship program. Cutler's complaints about the program led to an internal inquiry in 1996.
Guite defended himself against allegations of wrongdoing by saying that if anyone has made an oversight, it's the Auditor General. He said her report was "misleading" and contained inaccuracies.
Specifically, he disputed Fraser's claim that the Bluenose II never saw any funding. Guite said a Bluenose schooner tour was well financed. Guite said Fraser's conclusion -- that invoices were missing from some sponsorship files -- was "impossible, absolutely impossible."
He said when he was there, from 1996 to 1999, every file had a contract, an affidavit and confirmation that a product had been delivered.
"All I can say to her is: 'You find out where the files went, but they were there originally.' "
John Williams, the committee chairman, speaking after the morning of testimony, told CTV's Mike Duffy that this is the first time anyone has said documents were kept in files, rather than a computer database as previously suggested.
"Everybody says there were no documents, including the Auditor General, including some employees -- some subordinates who worked directly for him," Williams said. "So his credibility is in question."
Meeting with Gagliano
The question of meetings with Gagliano also came up. Contradicting earlier testimony from Gagliano, who told the committee he met with Guite only a few times a year, Guite said the two met at least once a month.
"I would meet with Mr. Gagliano probably every month," Guite said, adding he may have met with the minister's office more regularly.
"I wouldn't say once a week, but it was regular," Guite said.
Guite's former assistant, Huguette Tremblay, and a former Gagliano staffer, Isabelle Roy, also said the two men met frequently.
Guite also contradicted David Dingwall, Gagliano's predecessor, who previously said he could not recall ever meeting Guite. Guite said they did meet and it was a moment he will never forget.
He said Dingwall asked him to describe how Brian Mulroney's Tory government had been involved in making political decisions. When Guite refused, Dingwall congratulated him for his discretion. "'You won't rat on them, you won't rat on us,'" Guite quoted Dingwall as saying.
Guite also said allegations made about him in Canada affected him and his family while on vacation at a trailer park in Arizona. He said people would drive past their trailer and shout obscenities.
Eighteen months ago, Guite's testimony to the same committee was held in camera. At the time, Guite refused to discuss his dealings with Gagliano, citing cabinet confidentiality. But the oath of secrecy doesn't apply to Guite this time, since the confidentiality clause has been lifted.
Guite will return Friday for further testimony before the committee.
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This short piece illustrates perfectly the problem with the adversarial legal system, where the idea of actual guilt is irrelevant to all participants in the pantomime. I support the vigorous defence of a person's rights, but also grasp why lawyers come across slimy. It's hard to look crystal clear and clean when you provide your services on a foundation of one set of acceptable lies against another.
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