CTVNEWS.com recently interviewed Jean Chretienās political mentor. Mitchell Sharp, 90, was finance minister under Lester B. Pearson. Sharp now works for his protege as a $1-a-year advisor.

CTV: When did you first meet Prime Minister Chretien?

MS: When I was appointed minister of finance, I had heard about this young fellow who, you may recall, had brought in a bill to change the name of our airline -- government airline -- to Air Canada. It was an extraordinary thing to have a young fellow who had just entered Parliament bring in a bill to do that, and it was approved. Very few bills that are brought in by private members are ever approved, or ever get debated even. So that was the sort of reputation he had. However, I donāt think that he thought very much of the appointment that Prime Minister Pearson was about to make when Pearson appointed Chretien as my parliamentary secretary when I was minister of finance. I had just been appointed as minister of finance, and he came with the package.

CTV: Did you personally request Mr. Chretien as your parliamentary secretary?

MS: No, no. As a matter of fact he was parliamentary secretary to the prime minister. When he entered politics the prime minister thought he was promising too. And so he appointed him as the prime minister's parliamentary secretary.

CTV: What was your impression of Mr. Chretien?

MS: My first impression was of rather attractive. But because of his poor English at the time, I remember when he came to work with me I said, "Now Jean, the fact that the prime minister has appointed you as my parliamentary secretary leads me to believe that you are material post at some time."

CTV: And this despite the poor English skills you just mentioned?

MS: Oh yes. And I was to learn something very quickly about him. So he came to work for me and I said, "I want you to be present at every meeting I have on questions of policy. When decisions have to be made, I want you to be there to learn how to be a minister." So very soon within a few days after his appointment, I had a highly secret, very important meeting at which was the governor of the Bank of Canada, the deputy governor of the Bank of Canada, the deputy minister of finance, and the assistant deputy minister of finance. I don't remember what the subject was, but I asked Jean to be present. After it was over, I put my arm around his shoulder and I said, "Now, Jean, this was a very secret meeting. You mustn't talk to anyone about it. You mustn't even admit there was a meeting on this subject." Jean said: 'You don't need to worry. I didn't understand a bloody thing.' So that tells you something about him. However, very quickly, his English improved. And it got to the point where I said to him one day: "Have you ever addressed an anglophone meeting?" 'Oh no, no,' (Chretien replied.) I said "Youāre going to, because I'm going to arrange a meeting in my constituency and you're going to be the speaker." Now that meeting really convinced me about the qualities of this young man.

CTV: Is that the point you realized he was destined for higher office?

MS: Yes well, I'll tell you what happened. He spoke and his English was fairly good, and it was what he said and the attitude of his audience. He said at one stage, 'You know, I come from Quebec, all my family is there. I'm very proud of the people who speak my language and my society.' But he said 'I am also a Canadian and I own a little bit of the Rocky Mountains,' And I thought "My, that was smart. That is the whole thing. That's the case." So they gave him a tremendous reception. Far greater that I ever got. (Laughs). And I thought, 'Now thereās a man of real potentiality.'

CTV: What year was this?

MS: 1963.

CTV: Why do you think Mr. Turner won (the 1984 Liberal leadership race) and not Mr. Chretien?

MS: Partly because of he was English-speaking. And he was extremely well-known throughout the country. Because John Turner believed that he had a destiny to be the prime minister, that was his attitude to politics.

CTV: Did Mr. Chretien speak of such goals?

MS: No. Not like Turner did. Turner from the very beginning, from the time he entered politics, he was a man who was going to achieve the top. And he almost did. (He) did quite well.

Chretien had a different approach to leadership from Turner. He was much more the man of the people. He made a different kind of an appeal. But at that time, he didn't win when Turner was elected, but he -- and this is true of Chretien -- he becomes a part of the structure. He's a man of the people. He talks to people in a way that they can understand. You know, people have pointed to the faults in his English and French. But one thing: there has never been any ambiguity in what he said. He might not occasionally get the structure quite right but his meaning is obvious, very, very clear. So, as I say, he became much more a leader of the people than Turner ever was. Turner was in a sense; he was brought up to be a man of importance. We used to say that he got along quite well with one of the princesses who came to Canada. That sort of thing. Not serious in any other sense, other than this is the kind of company that he shone in.

CTV: As a man of the people how good is he, do you think, at figuring out the country's mood?

MS: When he became prime minister and he asked me to take an office with him, I was a bit reluctant because I didnāt want particularly to have a job, and I said I couldn't accept any compensation because people would think I was getting paid off for past services.

CTV: (Your job) is a $1 a year posting, is that right?

MS: That's right. Now I said to him, "You know Jean, you have two great qualifications to be a prime minister. First of all you have an almost infallible sense in political matters. There isn't anyone who understands the political situation better than you. I don't know of anyone who does. Secondly, you're always underestimated, and the combination is an extremely valuable one to be prime minister."

CTV: Seven years on, he's still derided as a hick Quebec lawyer who isn't prime-ministerial. Do you think he's getting the last laugh?

MS: I'm sure he is. What prime minister has ever remained so popular, throughout seven years? I never remember anything like this at all. The polls are extraordinary.

CTV: He does have that Teflon prime minister reputation. Why do you think it is that Canadians donāt hold him personally responsible for negatives, like the reneging on the promise to scrap the GST and other policy gaffes?

MS: I can't answer that one, but they may say 'That's right, but there were other things he did.' He has never said 'I made a mistake in saying I was going to get rid of it.' But he has gone ahead with policies that meant that the GST was part of a whole group.

CTV: And he did issue an apology later. Was that a factor?

MS: Maybe it was. But you never hold politicians ... I was in politics a long time, and people say 'Well I make mistakes. I guess politicians have their fair share of mistakes.' We only hope that on the whole they deserve or they don't deserve confidence. And it's quite clear from the record that Chretien's confidence rating has been very high throughout, which is a measure of his attitude.

CTV: Would you attribute his attitude to his staying power?

MS: Well, his attitude on Canada is absolutely essential here. On one thing, he and Trudeau were equally clear.

CTV: Are you speaking of federalism?

MS: Yes. Their concepts of federalism were identical. And this is a very important point; on some things, like everyone else, you differ. I was in Trudeau's cabinets and I didn't always agree with him. But on one question, I had no doubts. And that was his attitude towards the importance of federalism in governing Canada.

CTV: And (Chretien is) said to have been brought up in a federalist household. Do you think that influenced his leadership style?

MS: Yes. He came up in a family of very prestigious people. His brothers are doctors and so on. This was an atmosphere of culture, a cultivated atmosphere. He wasn't down among the grubby people at the bottom. He was brought up in a family that had standards. He was also a person who just loved to have a debate on public policy. For example, to give you an idea of what heās like, it was during the preparation of the Clarity Bill and the prime minister phoned me and said 'What you do you think about it all?' and I said, "I think it's fine." I said "This is the way to go." Then a few days later, he phoned me again and he said, 'Are you still of the same view?' And I said, "Yes, but as you know as well as I do, thereās been a big rift in your party on the question of timing. You're being accused of resurrecting the whole issue of separatism and so on.ā Now you know what the prime minister said?

CTV: What?

MS: He said, 'Isn't it wonderful? I'm going to have one hell of a fight.' And he did. He came out swinging. He gave the best speech of his career; it was an enormous victory for him.

CTV: Is this the same Mr. Chretien that is said to not be able to resist a challenge?

MS: Yes (laughs) ... You see, what was fascinating about that was it wasn't only that he wanted to get out and fight for this, but he had mastered it to such an extent that he gave the best, in many respects, the best speech of his whole career -- without a note.

CTV: Do you think Mr. Chretien, if re-elected, has any unfinished business he wants to complete?

MS: Not I think specifically.

CTV: Has he accomplished everything heās wanted to under his current mandate?

MS: Oh, no. No, no. But he thinks he's in process of doing it. The idea that he thinks the job is done is not true. He thinks that the country needs change.

CTV: In what sense?

MS: Fiscal policy, medicare, the whole business of education, particularly higher education. All of these things are in process. So he looks upon this as a country where everything is improving. And heās directing it towards being a country in which education, educated people are absolutely essential.

CTV: Do you think holding a fall election is a good idea?

MS: I didn't advise him on this. (Laughs.)

CTV: In your opinion: is the timing good, seeing as heās riding high in the polls right now?

MS: I really, I canāt answer that one, I'm sorry. There are some things as an advisor to the prime minister that you donāt discuss, because if you did, you'd no longer be an advisor.

CTV: Can I turn your attention then to his commitment to public service. As somebody who has known him for over 30 years, can you speak about that a little bit?

MS: I don't think I've ever known anyone in politics who was so committed to politics, as such, to public service in that sense. I've known other prime ministers, and Iāve known all sorts of people, all of them had different characteristics. This prime minister loves politics. He loves the country. Any new thing that can help, he wants to know all about it. And when he's criticized, he considers the criticism and whether it's justified or not. This is all just part of how he likes to live. It's extraordinary because there are many people who would have said, and did say "I've done my bit and Iām going to retire.' He hasn't said that yet.

CTV: What do you think his legacy will be once he decides to retire, once and for all?

MS: As far as I can see, his legacy will be what happened in Canada in the years that he was in office, the record is extraordinary. Everything in Canada has gotten better. The government decided that it had to clean up the fiscal mess that it inherited. With that done, the response was enormous. And now what the government has to do is to decide what kind of changes are justified in taxation, and in various other programs as a result in the improvement in the Canadian environment of the Canadian economy.

CTV: And does Mr. Chretien have specific ideas for this?

MS: I'm sure he does. And Iām sure you'll find them coming out during the campaign.

CTV: So you don't know what they are.

MS: No. I don't want to know either.

CTV: I wanted to get a sense of his personal character that we either in the media or the Canadian population might not know about him.

MS: The most important thing about him is that if he has something that he wants done he will fight for it, and very effectively.

CTV: He was said to be a bit of a scrapper when he was a boy, and he does have working-class roots. Do you think this influenced his leadership style?

MS: I guess it affected him when he was young and it continued into his maturity. But heās got a very clear mind. I sometimes think that when I talk to him about whatever it is that is his business, I continue to be astonished by how clearly he understands things.

CTV: Heās been criticized as being un-intellectual. What would you say to that?

MS: Well, he's not. No. I should tell you a couple of other stories.

CTV: Sure.

MS: I had assumed -- this is some years ago now -- that the prime minister didn't read very much. It was sort of an impression I had. And I'd referred to some book, and he said he had read those, and I almost fell over. I hadn't realized that.

CTV: Is this when you first met him?

MS: No, no. It was when he became prime minister. I had just assumed that he didn't have very much time to read books. I don't mean just casual books. I mean biographies and things of this kind. And he said, 'Oh yes, I've read those books.' As I told you, one of his great characteristics is that he's always underestimated. I'm very interested in music. His wife and I play the piano. I encouraged her to take lessons. Imagine: she took lessons while she was the prime minister's wife. You don't normally associate the prime minister with serious music. He has fun. But that's not right. He takes an interest in music and goes to concerts when he has time.

CTV: What sort of music does he like?

MS: He likes serious music. He likes orchestral music. Heās had some fun recently with a gadget that looks like a trombone, or at least it sounds like a trombone, but it has keys so you don't have to push this thing out in order to get the note. So at parties he's great. He and his wife are wonderful people at parties.

CTV: Apart from music, how does he escape the pressures of being prime minister?

MS: Well, I know that he and his wife are inseparable and I know they just love it when they can go to the cottage or something.

CTV: He's an avid golfer.

MS: He is. I don't golf so I marvel at this. But he does it, and apparently goes around the course at a very rapid pace as he does with nearly everything that he does. That is certainly a great recreation for him. No doubt about that at all. I'd say itās his main way of spending his off-hours.

CTV: His favourite way?

MS: Oh yes. Oh yes. As I say, I don't golf, so I don't go near the game.

CTV: Is there anything else you want to share -- a personal anecdote or a moment that sticks out?

MS: This is really a criticism that has been made of him recently. I think it's unjustified, and that is that idea that he is arrogant. This is not so. Heās not arrogant at all. It's true that heās a man who holds opinions, and he doesn't move off them, unless he's convinced. But the idea that he ignores people ... he's a wonderful social person. I find this charge -- arrogant -- I don't understand it. I can understand people say heās so confident that he doesn't think about the weaknesses and so on. That's not so. I'm sure he worries about everything that goes wrong, just as any other prime minister. But it's not arrogance. Arrogance is just the very opposite of what he's like. He's a very friendly person, and you can approach him and talk to him and it's quite extraordinary. So I find that an unjust criticism.

CTV: It's been a real pleasure talking to you.