Dion ready to shift 'Green Shift' plan for farmers

The countdown is underway for a probable federal election call within the next six days and a recent poll suggests the conservatives are on the verge of a majority.

CTV National News: Rosemary Thompson on what plans the Liberals have in store

On Wednesday Stephane Dion will try to address oncerns about his Green Shift Plan that is causing concern among several groups of Candians and threatening the survival of some of his MPs

CTV Newsnet: Stephane Dion addresses the media, saying his party will bring accountability to Ottawa

The federal Liberals are holding an end-of-summer caucus meeting this week in Winnipeg and leader Stephane Dion announced a new Regina area candidate on Tuesday.

CTV Newsnet: National Affairs Correspondent Lisa LaFlamme previews the election preparations from the Liberal caucus in Winnipeg

CTV News National Affairs Correspondent Lisa LaFlamme is at the Liberal caucus in Winnipeg as an election call looms.

CTV Newsnet: Jason Kenney, secretary of state for multiculturalism, offers his view of the Liberal 'Green Plan'

The federal Liberals are holding a pre-election caucus meeting this week in Winnipeg, meanwhile Conservative MP and Secretary of State for Multiculturalism Jason Kenney outlines what he calls 'holes' in the Liberal Party's green plan.

CTV Newsnet: Stephane Dion addresses the media during the Liberal caucus in Winnipeg

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion addressed the media while at a caucus retreat in Winnipeg saying his party will bring accountibility and will be available for Canadians.

CTV Newsnet: Liberal Leader Stephane Dion speaks ahead of a party caucus meeting

The federal Liberals are holding an end-of-summer caucus meeting this week in Winnipeg and leader Stephane Dion announced a new Regina area candidate on Tuesday.

CTV Newsnet: Stephane Dion, Liberal leader, takes questions from the media

Liberal leader Stephane Dion announced a new Liberal candidate in a Regina riding on Tuesday ahead of a party caucus meeting this week in Winnipeg.

CTV Newsnet: Peter Donolo, The Strategic Counsel, on new political poll numbers

Prime Minister Stephen Harper appears to have chosen the right time to push for an election, despite economic concerns.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Tue. Sep. 2 2008 9:48 PM ET

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion is set to shift his "Green Shift" plan just days before a federal election is expected to be called.

CTV News has learned Dion will announce that part of the $1 billion contingency fund in his plan, designed for tax relief to address the unavoidable costs associated with the carbon tax, will be set aside for truckers, farmers and fishermen.

CTV's Rosemary Thompson said the Liberal leader will announce the plan tomorrow, as the Liberals began a caucus retreat Tuesday in Winnipeg.

"(Dion) says it may be a tough pill to swallow now but with the adjustments that he is introducing tomorrow, he suggests (the plan) will be palatable, marketable and voter friendly for when the campaign call actually comes," Thompson told CTV Newsnet Tuesday.

The "Green Shift" plan will be expanded to "speed up green agriculture in Canada," Dion said when he arrived in Winnipeg.

"(It) will help farmers to be less dependent on fossil fuels and to be more energy efficient, and then to be more competitive," he said. "It will help our farmers adapt to the unavoidable. We need to reduce greenhouse gases."

The economic-environmental plan is the centerpiece of the Liberal platform. The Liberals have said the plan will be revenue neutral because it will offset new energy taxes on carbon producers by giving tax breaks for most Canadians.

But with the price of fuel as high as it is and the economy slowing down, the plan has been mercilessly attacked by the Conservatives.

Secretary of State for Multiculturalism Jason Kenney said even Liberal MPs don't fully understand Dion's "Green Shift" carbon tax plan.

"Even though Mr. Dion released his plan in June and has spent the last few months trying to explain it to Canadians, senior Liberals continue to say on the record that the plan isn't finished," Kenney said Tuesday.

He also said there does not seem to be widespread acceptance of the Liberal leader's agenda, even among Liberals. Kenney said Liberals in Atlantic Canada met at the end of their summer retreat, and issued a list of their priorities.

"But guess what? They failed to mention the carbon tax plan even once," Kenney said.

Liberal MP Bob Rae spoke to CTV's Mike Duffy Live from Winnipeg Tuesday and said the Liberals' green plan was always intended to be flexible.

"What would Canadians rather have, somebody that goes out and says 'I got some ideas and I'd like to listen to what you have to say about it' . . . or would you rather have a guy that says, 'I don't really care what you think, this is what we are going to do,'" Rae said.

"We've already got one of those in 24 Sussex Drive."

The Liberals will wrap up their retreat at the end of the week - at about the same time Harper is expected to call an election for Oct. 14.

Poll puts Tories ahead

Both Dion and Kenney played down recent poll results that suggest the Conservatives have taken a substantial lead and are approaching the support they need to achieve a majority.

The latest Strategic Counsel Poll, conducted for CTV and the Globe and Mail, indicates that Conservative support rose sharply in the past few months (percentage-point change from a June 6-9 poll in brackets):

Conservatives: 37 per cent (+5)
Liberals: 29 per cent (-1)
New Democrats: 17 per cent (-1)
Green Party: 9 per cent (-1)
Bloc Quebecois: 8 per cent (-2)

"Five days ago there was a survey that put the Liberals ahead by two points and people said the Conservatives were risking even their own minority government. So there's one survey saying one thing, another saying something else, and it's impossible to make any predictions," Kenney said.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

John
said

What about this -- instead of whining about what this party or that party does or does not offer for the environment, why don't you just lay down on the complainin' a little and as an individual DO YOUR PART to help the environment?

As an environmentally conscious Canadian, I will be voting for Harper, because I do not need to be taxed for eating food or heating my home.

cp.
said

You know, I am sick of this.
I heard that Canada only contributes approximately less than 1% of GHG. The Liberals in their infinate wisdom's solution is to beat up Canadians with another tax.
WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE TAXES MY FRIENDS!!!!!
We are all taxed enough.

I know some of you are blinded by the Liberal smoke screen but think about this. The Liberals are going to give back a 1 - 1.5% tax break. Wow, that is worth nothing to me and how about those who don't pay taxes, like I said...Wow :-<

Another Liberal thought "the carbon tax won't be on fuel and prices of goods shouldn'
t go up in price". Well I don't believe this at all. The majority of our homes and factories use Natural Gas (which will be hit). Business will definitely pass this cost on to us (tax cuts won't help with this). Thinking about it, the Carbon Tax does nothing for the environment, we still need to use carbon based fuel/products, we will pay more for everything and guess what, nothing happens to the environment (thank the Russians, Chinese, Indians, etc. as they will continue to emit GHGs at extreme rates).
Here are some solutions ideas:
1) Give tax cuts to those who want to purchase fuel efficient vehicles, furnaces, etc

2) Give money to our Universities and research organizations to develop the technologies to clean up GHG. We create the technology then sell it around the world - means more money for Canada

3) Start putting taxes and tariffs on products from those "developing" countries that continuously break the rules on GHGs and tell them "until you clean up your act, all your goods are taxed/tariffed"

4) Put money into R&D for expanding clean technologies (wind, hydro, nuclear). Start us on the path to get us off the HC based fuels.

My two cents (that are taxed to death)

Alberta Believer
said

Hey Larry L,

I've know Stephen Harper's background and yer damn right I want that for this country. For you my friend, I suggest Latin America because thats about the only place that you're gonna get socialism nowadays!

We've had Trudeau, Chretien and Martin and we're fed up with that nonsense!

PS. People holding your views in Canadian politics aren't normally so fond of the bible since they're trying to silence its adherents through Human Rights Tribunals and legislation.

Shamaro
said

This so called carbon tax that Dion presented, is just another Lame Brain scheme for a Liberal to get himself voted in.

They don't care if they screw up our daily lives with another stupid tax scheme, that is suppose to make the world greener. It's just another Liberal Ploy to get someone back into the PM's office.

Frankly, with this kind of tactic, I wouldn't doubt if Harper squeaked in with a small majority.

Bob, Calgary
said

Let's all save the earth and jump on the Liberal bandwagon with Marcel. Let's cut Canada's greenhouse gas emmissions no matter how much it costs us so we (and Marcel) can feel good about ourselves. Afterall isn't Canada the most self-righteous nation on earth? Meanewhile every ton of CO2 we save the Chinese will pump 100X as much into the environment and their economy will prosper as ours stagnates. Stephane Dion is the most naive idealogue to come out of Quebec in a long time.Yeh, let's have another Quebecer for PM so we can be lead out of the wilderness by our collective wallets.A pox on all Liberals.

Canadian Candidate
said

Listen people - if you've listened to what Harper has said about the Green Shift, the information is wrong, tailored to confuse you and hide the truth that his gov't is planning to put a tax on carbon of $65/tonne with NO REBATES for average Canadians but miles of loopholes for big oil. The fact that in this day and age you would take an environmental plan you don't 100% agree with and use that as some ridiculous partisan excuse to hand a majority who doesn't care about the environment AT ALL, who has also spent all our savings and lied at every turn... it makes me ashamed of my fellow citizens. What an angry and ignorant lot we've turned into if this is true. It is important you do your research this time and do not give absolute power to a despot who is laughing in your face while he lies to you.

Chris
said

All that think the Green Shift Plan is the best, why has Dion abondoned Kyoto, not a mention these day's of it even though when they formed the goverment, nothing more than voting for it was done. Then we also hed the child care promise that except for talking about it nothing else happened. Nobody talks about the small employer with a few trucks on the road, that have to be a little bigger than a smart car is going to be able to afford this shift, when consumption of fuel is required to keep people employed. Do we wait for the tax break at the end of the year? We most likely won't be able to last to see it, and will have to increase costs to our customers (you) in the mean time.
At least with the conservatives, past track record would be for lower taxes, and in turn that creates more tax revenue in the long run that can go towards programs. Know it is a hard concept for most people, but lower taxes create more tax revenue over the long haul. A concept the liberals & NDP have never grasped.

Jack in BC
said

I actually read the Green Shift plan and I still don't like it. Maybe it doesn't target the gasoline but it adds cost to natural gas (i.e. how we heat our homes) and diesel (which means transportation costs for shipping are going up so look for it at the grocery store and pretty much every other store). Also, jet fuel is going up in price so that means flights to visit family are going to cost more - it already costs $1100 to visit my family in Toronto at Christmas from the West Coast.

But really the point is that this plan WON'T help the environment. Canadians are already changing their behaviours as best they can (look at truck sales) because of the market price (good ol' fashioned supply & demand). To penalize people for just living their lives (especially those in rural areas) is cruel. You have to eat and heat your home no matter what!

I may not love Harper but I really dislike Dion. He is terrible as a leader and he lacks understanding of the day to day lives of Canadians if he continues to push this plan.

Oh, and to those critizing Harper for calling an election, did you critize Dion every week that he made that threat and did nothing?!

Ex conservative
said

Hurry stephen and call this election because 800 more jobs were lost today in Ontario and it don't look like it's going to get any better...can you say recession!
The funny thing is that the Reform party can't blame the Liberals for this...though i'm sure they've thought about it.
Hopefully all Ontarians who swung to the Right will realise that Harpers Reform party doesn't have the answer to your problems.

Bill
said

Canadians tend to forget that prior to the last 2 years of Conservative govn't in Canada, we had 13 years of LIBERAL Governments, who talked the talk about the environment, but wouldn"t Walk the Walk - even with all the budget surpluses Mr. Martin built up by slashing the $$$ to Medicare, Social Programs, and so forth. I do not trust Dion's Green Shift (Shaft) plan. Neither do I trust Mr. Harper. I DO believe we have a civic duty to vote, after many of our ancestors fought against tyranny. I guess I will hold my nose and vote.

Jeff
said

@ian

Could you be more specific Ian when you say that carbon is not screwing up the planet? Every international scientific organization claims that excess CO2 emissions are responsible for global warming, and they have the data to back that up. Can you point to the laws of physics that prevent carbon dioxide from retaining heat? As I understand it, CO2 acts to trap infrared radiation. Is this not true? Which Journals are you quoting or referencing to support your claim?

Marcelliss
said

I am SICK of taxes. If a leader does not know that most of us if not all of us as a nation are sick of taxes, then they are out of touch with reality.

Of course I want a cleaner safer environment. But if you suggest raising taxes to get it, your creativity is ZERO

George
said

Isn't that interesting, Jason Kenney says the Liberals don't understand the Green Shift.

If there was anything the Conservatives could come up with that was worthy of discussion, we would never know if all their MP's understood it. They are not permitted to speak in public.

Trent
said

IAN i like to know what you do on a fixed income to get that much back? I will also take you don't own a car? You must be single? that plan will eat that 1000-1500 easy so you read the plan again and think about that have a life...

Baba Booey
said

If the people get the government they deserve, by the intelligence of the comments here we deserve Harper.

Commando
said

Greg in the Hammer,

I am right with you in your terms of thinking. I am glad someone is thinking objectively about this global warming boon doggle! You are right about Europe, most people cannot afford the electriity rates anymore, so most European governments now subsidize them which in turn increases your social spending. This has to be the biggest farce yet that these politicians are trying to force down our throats since the experts predicted the big melt down from the change of the millenium in 2000. Let's keep an open or objective mind about this CO2 emmissions scare before we jump on the GreenHouse Band Wagon.

Eye of the Tiger
said

There is nothing more ludicrous than asking someone, i.e.- the Canadian public to vote for something they don't understand. Stephane Dion wants us to do it, of course, because he doesn't understand it either if he can't explain it to us. And also, Canadians don't understand HIM either. The fact is, the "Green Shift" is the only plank he has for the Liberal Party and that's not enough to win an election. I think he knows that the majority of Canadians realize that the only Green Shift they will see under a Liberal government will be just another shift of their money from their pockets to the taxman. And Dion's whining about an election being called by the Prime Minister is simply a ploy in which he wants to play the part of the victim in the hope that we are stupid enough to forget that it's been the Liberals who have called a whopping 44 non-confidence motions in the short time the Conservatives have governed. So let's get on with it, and give Dion what he wished for. We'll have his much desired election. The best thing we can hope for is a Conservative majority so Dion will be blown out of the Liberal party, and replaced with someone who knows what he wants and isn't from Quebec.

Greg in the Hammer
said

I have to say I am not suprised by the comments from the left that go something like...."well at least Dion has a plan for the environment......" and on and on.

Well.....THE PLAN SUCKS. IT DOES NOTHING FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, AND IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMOKESCREEN TO FUND A PLETHORA OF SOCIALIST POLICIES THAT THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT NEED, AND CANNOT AFFORD.

The only thing that shifts in this plan is the money that is going to go from your pocket to the governments coffers.

The left laments the fact that the Conservatives (in their minds) have no plan for the environment. When the fact is they do. It involves something called RATIONAL THOUGHT. It targest polluters, not just CO2 emitters, and sets standards that they must acheive by attainable timetables.

Canada puts out about 3% of the worlds GHGs. We will have 0 impact on world GHG output by radically changing our country and destroying our economy. This myth that Mr Dion likes to tout that somehow the world will follow our example is fantasy.

Should we invest in research and development of alternative technologies? Absolutely. But not at the expense of our standard of living and our way of life.

The left loves to brand Mr Harper as a "NEO CON". They sadly do not know what the word means. To get an idea of what it means I suggest reading the writings of someone like Paul Wolfowitz.

I heard John McCallum the other day trying to tell Canadians that the Liberals were the party of fiscal stability and large government surpluses. Well that is exactly the arrogance and hubrus that got the Liberals turfed Mr McCallum. Governments ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN SURPLUSES. That is akin to PROFIT. It is taxpayers money not the governments to do with as they wish when they wish it.

I cannot wait for the election. I am no fan of Jack Layton, but I think we may see him represent a more clear and concise alternative for left of center voters in this country which may sway those of you who are disappointed Liberals.

I have stated this before. The Liberal Party of Canada is in jeoparday of going the way of the Liberal Party of England post WWI under Lloyd George. They came to represent arrogance and stand for nothing but power for powers sake.

Mr Harper please call the election you have my vote.

newguy in Ottawa
said

To a few of the posters - Harper an "able administrator"?

Since when does inheriting a massive surplus only to squander it and have the worst or next to worst performing economy in the G8 in a matter of 2 years equal good administration?

I realize in the world of the Conservative fornt bench, which is one populated exclusively with non businesspeople (like the completely unaccomplished Jason Kenney, above), perhaps that isn't so important. To those of us who operite in that world, it is not very impressive.

How can the gov't claim, as John Baird does, that their plan (as yet unseen)will make "big polluters pay" MORE Than the Liberal plan, and yet sopmehow these costs won't be passed on to consumers? It makes no sense - at least the Libs say their will be a cost and that is why there are income tax cuts to offset. The Reform guys have no such plan - just higher costs.

Maybe this ignorant scare mongering will work on the very, very simple minded (like Jason Kenney), but I truly hope it will not work on Canadians at large.

Fred Wells
said

I see that Canada's answer to Fred Flintstone is at it again. While complaining about some not understanding the Green Shift, he doesn't say whether he understands it. Given the fact that he believes in a time where man and dinosaurs cohabited the Earth, it would be unsuprising if ole Jason did not grasp environmental issues. There is an article in the Vancouver Sun today speaking of the coastline disappearing because of higer oceans. What is the Reform/Conservative solution to that?

AB
said

Dee-yawn fell for the trap -- hook, line and sinker. All he had to do was say he'd support the gov't until the next budget, and then review the budget then. He would have taken the steam out of the PM saying they opposition wants to bring the gov't down right after the by-elections. DUH. Well, he fell for it, and now, in approx 40 days, he'll be out of a job as leader of the Libs. PM Harper has shown a mastery of the technical workings of being a politician, and he will continue as the PM after the next election.

John
said

First it will be the Carbon Tax then gradually if you lefties get your way and the Libs get a Majority, there will be a complete ban on all non essential gasoline powered vehicles. So all you Torontonians with your fancy Hummers, vintage muscle cars, sea doos, and monster boats in Muskoka, will be reduced to driving your overpriced Prius Hybrid or Smart Car up to your cottage so you can paddle your canoe around Lake Joe. Remember once you allow a government to introduce a new Tax, you're pretty much stuck with it. Unless you get a Government who actually has the jam to promise to cut a tax and goes about and does it. Be careful what you wish for. People talk about the Tories "hidden agenda", well I'm more worried about Dion's hidden agenda called the "Green Shift"

Matt
said

I don't know about most people, but if a Green Plan is something people care about, they should look into the NDP.

Not only do they have some great social and economical plans but their green plan can work.

Look into it and don't feel like it's wither Cons or Libs as your choices.

the ignorance of the left is astounding
said

Lowell,

If you were a card carrying conservative then I used to be the Pope. You libs are fooling nobody. Suck it up, you are going to lose the next election...huge.

Btw, in calling Mr Harper unintelligent, you have really only exposed yourself as the dimwit.

Mr Harper, you have my vote. Mr Dion, go be the teacher that you are. Leading our great country is not a job you are up to.

Rob R
said

john you say yippi, that alberta would suffer? how simplistic. what canada really needs to do is separate in two, the east would then be able to meet their green quotas their dollar would be worth .40$ and their factories would then again be able to compete with china for the manufacturing jobs while we in the west would just keep working.

Richard from Ontario
said

Marcel,,, I'm one of the people that said those that call the Conservatives Alliance/Reform are digging up bones and going back to the Chretien days.. You might want to take off your blinders and realize that Stephen Harper and his party have done more for Canadians in two years than your group did in thirteen without stealing our money...He's not a bigger dictator than Jean the Strangler or his cohort "decimate health care and the Military" Paul Martin.. I for one just hope that Stephan Harper gets a majority and I'm sure he will balance all the programs, including the Environment by doing what's in the best interest of the Canadian Public and not what's on the left wing agenda..

Ian
said

Hello you guys out there who keep at it with the same dogma. Carbon is not harming the planet, but polution is. Things like effluent in our waterways and other harmful pollutants in the air. These things that the Liberals never did one single thing about, nor do they plan to if elected. So while we're throwing billions down the crapper over this carbon fiasco, our kids can't swim at our public beaches because cities are punmping poop into the Halifax and Victoria harbours, or the Ottawa river. The Conservatives shell out millions for these cleanups and get nary a mention in the media. All of you so called greenies can pay through the nose for everything you buy, but don't ask me to accept a hairbrained scheme like the Green Shaft.

Mark E
said

Just wondering why someone would vote for a plan they cannot understand that is made up by someone who cannot explain it?

John G
said

At least someone has a plan, this has got to be better than "we'll figure out what to do when we get to the edge of the cliff." However,I'm not rushing to vote for it either, as I need to inform myself more. So I'm going to take the dreaded step of actually reading it this weekend. Wish me luck.

JJ
said

The Liberal Green Shift Plan will screw most people. I cannot imagine how this plan, which is ever so popular in BC, will not drive prices for all products even higher. I am looking forward to an election that should drive the Liberals from power for the foreseeable future.

lowell
said

In the US the general feeling is that George Bush is the least intelligent leader that has ever occupied the oval office. I would have to say the Stephen Harper is entering into that territory as well in comparing him with previous prime minister's except maybe for Joe Clark, who also was an conservative. Even Mulroney with his problems looks like a genuis alongside Harper. What will it take to get rid of this guy. I used to be a card carrying conservative and even Jack Layton is starting to look good. My views are liberal in nature but I don't have alot of faith in Dion. It is quite a dilemmna come time to go into the voting booth. I have already had 3 phone calls from Conservative campaign office even before the writ was dropped.

RRO
said

Part of Canada's current economic problems is the instability in our stock market. Instability that is only made worse every time Mr. Dion goes in front of some crowd and talks about how he has the power to bring down the government at any time.

Dion said Canadians wanted an election and Harper gave it to them. Harper doesn't play games, Mr. Dion doesn't know how to do anything else. He made a mistake, he ran far to the left, rather than fighting for the center because frankly Mr. Harper has shown himself to be rather centerist on most issues.

All the Liberals talking about Conservative Fear mongering, what do you call all that talk about Harpers "hidden agenda" last election. Oh wait, its ok as long as it is only the Saintly Liberals.

Dion's plan will cost money. It will be revenue neutral in that the Government will make no money or lose money. The reality is the cost will be passed to corporations which will then pass it on to us as consumers. Our food, clothing, gas, everything will go up. And no amount of income tax cuts will make it revenue neutral for the average family.

Dion can't even lead his own party and you think he is ready to lead Canada through economic turmoil. He is selling out members of his own party by giving Elizabeth May and the Green Party no Liberal opposition is some areas. SO which party does Dion really belong to.

Its time for some stability in Ottawa again. Harper has shown himself to be an able administrator. He does things differently then Chretien or Martin but look where that got us, so why no try something new. I think Canadians can afford to give Prime Minister Harper a chance to govern with a majority and judge them then on his accomplishments.

Hell even give Jack Layton a chance, we would probably be safer with him then DIon, given that even Jack Layton opposes the Carbon tax.

Bob
said

When I hear the Liberal catch phrase "Green Shift" and the plan to refund Carbon taxes in some form of income tax breaks, I am reminded of the Liberal promise to axe the GST - empty promises. This party does not deserve trust!

As far as Harper going against a "fixed election date", it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that this refers to a majority government situation rather than a minority government which could be brought down at any time prior to a fixed election date.

James.
said

Trevor said
Vote for the "right" choice. Vote Conservative!

Well done Trevor. You just outlined the Harper plan and then said vote Harper.

As with all Conservatives, you convienently forget the other half of the Green Shift plan, the offset for higher prices will be lower personal taxes, an offset not present with the Harper plan.

With lower personal taxes, the consumer now has the choice, carry on as usual paying more but having the money to do so, or save some money by cutting back a little.

Now do you still want to vote for higher prices and no tax relief. If yes, vote Harper.

my take on this
said

Why is Secretary of State for Multiculturalism Jason Kenney commenting on Stephane Dion's "Green Shift" carbon tax plan? Has John Baird "The Minister of the Environment" succumbed to pollution.

Johnny99
said

A majority is within sight despite the fact that 63 per cent of the those polled won't be voting Conservative. Why would we ever consider proportional representation when our current system works so well!

al berta
said

John Do you think that Alberta is the only place in Canada that has oil.I should remind you that oil is fast becoming BC's largest form of revenue.As well there is Saskatchewan,Nova Scotia,and most recently Newfoundland and Labrador.Besides John,you sound like you're from Ontario,how would you ever be able to commute to work,or go out to the cottage without that Alberta oil?Quite the problem huh John?Maybe it would be better if Ont. had the oil,right John. YEAH RIGHT, HA HA HA.

Mike Acton
said

Dion's Green Shift Completely Misses The Mark --

I agree with most of the posters here, the LAST thing we need is more taxes. Why penalize people up front and promise a portion of carbon tax back on our tax returns? That's simply crazy! Not going to happen, I do not trust politicians and especially with my money...

I say go after the polluters UP FRONT. Hammer city driven gas guzzling cars and trucks. Hit them hard when manufactured, and again with each license sticker. Maybe then the idiotic Big-3 will finally get the message to stop building dump truck sized SUVs.

Utilities should be billed according to use on an escalating scale. People with Monster homes can afford to pay higher heating and electrical bills.

Furthermore, look at huge number of the trucks on the roads, have you ever seen one that doesn't belch smoke? I say introduce similar drive clean standards for them - our health is at steak, which is even more important the carbon emissions.

Mike Acton

John
said

Fellow travellers like Dion and Gore seldom pay for their own energy usage...the left lives by a 'do as i say, not as i do' rule. Anyone in the Liberal green shift brain trust notice the news coming out today on reduced sun spot activity. Seems worldwide global temps are trending downward.

Andre
said

The environment cannot be the defining issue in this election. Even if we shut down Canada entirely, China's new coal-fired plants would create enough carbon dioxide in one week to offset all the gains from shutting down Canada. The Liberal Green Shift plan is a smoke screen to mask the fact that the Liberals have absolutely no new ideas about anything (and have had none for over a decade, other than more taxes).
Harper is the leader Canada has needed for a long time and I hope the election will result in a majority so Harper can finally put Canada back on track.
My only negative comment about Harper is that he should be tackling the out-of-control Human Rights Commissions which are taking away our freedom of speech.

Pete
said

If Mr Dion is so big on the Euro method of greener pastures, I strongly suggest he take's up residence there. Maybe they will understand him there, particularly in France. That is touchy also as he is not very precise in either language. Liberal's need a leader from any Province other then Quebec. Here's a thought, lets hope he leave's for France and he takes the BQ with him. Just maybe as a result of a move like this we would have politician's who represent Canadian's finally. I know, wishful thinking and dreaming in technicolour.

JP in BC
said

Well Said Marcel""If all the Prime Minister and Jason Kenney can do is criticize Mr. Dion plan but do not offer an alternative.""
The GREAT HARPer is the one who set FIXED ELECTION DATE - and cannot obey his won law.
AQs for Mr Keeny - he has to start acting Mature and stop acting like a kid- name calling .
I am not sure who i am b voting for, but all the DIon trashing is showing immaturity from the Allience/Reform/ Conserative party.
MR DION has his flaws- and Well Mr HARPER is not PERFECT.
If an election is called - let see some HONESTLY and MATURITY .
My The most HONEST win.

Denis P
said

Everyone with an ounce of brains knows the Green Shaft for what it is, a wealth transfer, West to East.
What's more interesting, is the rumors that Dion has cut deals with certain provinces regarding the Green Shaft ( the name Green Shift is in the courts.)
Ontario and Quebec are strangely silent on this. Of more interest is the silence of the blow hard Danny Williams. In fact the opposite is true. He's yapping at the Conservatives. If the oil producing Provinces will be hit the hardest by the Green Shaft, why hasn't Williams yapped off about the Green Shaft? Has Dion struck a deal with NFL? My guess would be yes, but our illustrious media hasn't or won't track this down.
Why is that?
Are they protecting Dion and his Green Shaft?
It would appear so.
Pathetic really........

Keith, Halifax
said

I don�t like Dion much but I�ll definitely vote for his party. It doesn�t matter how much turmoil the opposition is in, the Harper support has obviously plateaued because he is just too far right for the majority of Canadians.

We�ll have to struggle through with another minority and hope that the Liberals can get their act together for next time and/or the Conservatives get a new leader and less extreme policy platform. One that won�t lead to a cut in the arts coinciding with a military funding announcement every other day.

It is worth noting that Euro energy costs have always been much higher than North America�s. It is also worth noting they have a trucking industry, a farming industry, their cars are much smaller and they use a lot less energy per person than we do in North America.

Judy
said

Stephen Harper lied to your grandparents re; income trusts.
Any man who lies to seniors to win votes is undeserving of anyones vote.
Stephen Harper wants an elected Senate yet appoints an unelected Senator. Another lie.
Stephen Harper promised 250,00- day care spaces. Another broken promise.
Stephen Harper's GHG plan rewards the big polluters with minimal standards and intensity based targets. Obsolete, obsolete, obsolete.
This man is a dinosaur in the modern world.
A Stephen Harper majority is a disaster in waiting.

reggie nand
said

Lets not be fooled here: More taxes more unecessary spending with Mr. Dion. He has also driven his party too far to the left even for most Canadians'liking. Gone are the fiscally conservative liberal days of the 90s. Lets keep Harper a while longer Canada.

JJ
said

Whoever thinks Dion will be a better leader for Canada has smoked way too much crack, or your Rich and will be profiting from having the Liberals in power.

No offense but I don't need some Backpacking leader tell me that I need to pay more when cost of living has been on the rise for such a long time however my paycheck keeps shrinking.

Think of everyone in Canada, not just the Rich!

reality man
said

Dell has gone carbon neutral by incorporating green sources of energy (e.g. wind and solar) and is now saving $3 million per year on operational costs. Maybe Mr. Kenney should explain how that would cause a rise in the costs of their product. The fact is that companies can INVEST in a wind turbine for a building, which will then reduce their energy costs. If GM and Ford make their vehicles more fuel efficient then consumers will SAVE money on gas. A great deal of CO2 peoduction could have been avoided if North American car manufacturers kept the fuel efficiency gains that they started making in the 70's and din't mkae SUV's the flagship products. Toyota is producing more fuel efficient vehicles and has now become the number 1 car producer on the planet. The economy didn't go into a depression when a switch was made from coal to oil because oil was more efficient but less polluting. When homes started using natural gas for heating instead of oil the economy didn't go into a depression even though furnaces had to be converted to burn natural gas rather than oil. California has far tougher car emissions standards than any jurisdiction in Canada and its economy has been doing just fine.

Roger
said

The only part of Dion's plan that is clear is the GREEN shift of my Money from my pocket to his coffers. No thanks. You would have to be a B-grade moron to think this would be revenue neutral. Yea you may entice people with a 1% income tax cut but that will be peanuts next to paying extra on EVERYTHING else - You want me to vote for this plan then ELIMINATE income taxes completely (after all world war I should be paid for by now) and then tax consumption. That way I at least get complete control of the money I earn. Otherwise I don't want to hear anymore about Dion's Green Grab.

Dion is all talk - no action
said

The only reason why Dion even mentions the "Green Shaft" is because he perceives it's an easy issue that people will rally behind even if they don't know really understand its a massive tax grab as long as it's "Green".

While in power DION DID NOTHING WITH THE ENVIRONMENT FILE - Do you seriously think he will do something now?

Come on folks let's get serious here. Dion is all talk, the only thing he wants is getting the Liberals back in power. They have no policies to speak of, no leadership obviously and are bankrupt in more ways than one.

CDN is USA
said

Marcel:

You're not welcome. I suggest you do a modern-day search for the term "neo-conservatism" and try explaining to us all how the Conservative Party of Canada fits the description. If you're going to spew uninformed anti-Harper rhetoric, do it on cbc.ca; you'll have lots of company there. Please post something with some substance and facts next time.

"To Some people still in the dark ages: I'm not the person in the dark ages. It is the Reform/Alliance/NeoCon/Republican Party of the North that is in the dark ages. Mr. Harper and his outdated ideas of the 18th and 19th century are completely out of the touch with the majority of the Canadian public. Therefore, he will never receive a majority government. Thank you"

Roadrobber
said

I don't think Dion expects to win the election anyway. If he did he would run candidates in all the electoral ridings in Canada.

There won't be a Liberal candidate in Central-Nova.

Nfld in Ont.
said

BTW:

Dion's Green Shift Plan will have virtually no impact to industry in Quebec since most of their power is generated from hydro. The residents will get rebates (lol) though!

Industry in Ontario will be hit the most by the new taxes. But don't worry Ontario, those rebate cheques will more than cover your lost pay-cheques!

Wayne
said

This doesn't seem to be the case here, but I hope that everyone understands that any pollution control plan will cost you money - not just a carbon tax.

Consider a cap-and-trade system. Companies get given a quota for emissions, and if they exceed the quota, they have to buy it from some other company. As the years go on, the quotas are lowered so that emissions get lowered. Where do you think the companies will get the money to buy more quota when they exceed the cap? It will come from you and I in increased product costs.

So, in the end, they will all cost you more money. Nothing comes for free...

Larry L
said

The Bible states that "Ye shall know them by their fruits." (Matt 7:16) If it is true that we know people by their "fruit", not by what they tell us about themselves or their promises for the future, Stephen Harper's "fruit" (his deeds, actions and works) warrant examination. Over the past 15+ years he was: 1) a founding member of the Reform Party - RP; 2) President of the National Citizens' Coalition - NCC; 3) co-author and proponent of the "Alberta Agenda (aka the "firewall letter"); 4) leader of the Canadian Alliance - CA, and; 5) leader of the Conservative Party of Canada which currently is comprised of an amalgamation of leftover people, policies and philosophies from the RP, NCC, CA and Progressive Conservative Party (PC).

I encourage everyone to engage in research into Mr. Harper's past deeds, works and acts, particulary the policies and philosophies he has helped develop and promote over the past 15+ years. (Wikipedia offers an excellent begininning resource for all the political bodies and the "firewall letter" mentioned above.) And, then, ask yourself whether you want those policies and philosophies directed by a majority government lead by Stephen Harper, not at that nebulous thing called Canada, but directly at you as an individual.

Along with the Bible quote, above, remember the words "A tiger does not change its stripes."

Crazy Jim
said

Sorry Ted but some of us here pay attention. Which promises are you referring to? Please do not insult our intelligence.

Nfld in Ont.
said

The Conservatives are geniuses. Read this thread� the focus is totally on the Liberal Green plan that will be a horrible failure during the election; just what the conservatives want!
Bottom line with the LGP: it taxes emissions; it does not reduce them. How is this better for the environment? Bottom line is that companies will maintain their �bottom line� by increasing the price of goods and services. We will pay more, but I guess we can use our rebates (lol)!
The answer is in innovation and I have more confidence in the Tories to drive that!

I am not a partisan Tory, but I�m beginning to think Harper is one of the greatest Canadian PMs in recent generations. He has accomplished more good in 3 years with a minority government than any government of the 70s/80s/90s. He has done it very quietly.
Danny Williams: you got lucky; right place at the right time!

DCR-Toronto
said

It is so sad to see people saying things like "at least Dion is doing...something". Well, "something" isn't always the right thing people. This type of carbon tax is simply a way for the Liberals to rake in MASSIVE amounts of money and do nothing for the environment. It is a transfer of wealth to fund social programs that will suck the tax payers dry. ANYONE who thinks this tax will go to big business has been living under a rock! A tax like this always goes to the consumer. Always! People in the cities can just jump on a bus...sure. No worries. This country is the second largest on earth (landwise). The farmers feed this planet and he wants to tax them for it??? The truckers drive day andnight so people can live comfy with all their luxurys. What about them??? A tax like this has not worked in Europe, and it is hurting the middle and lower income people the hardest. It is time for people to get their heads out of the sand and see what this tax is. And what exactly else do the Liberals have to offer a voter?? Nothing!!! What is their stance on the arctic? right, they don't have one, or any other issue for that matter. If the Liberals would get a leader that is actually in the centre perhaps I would consider their policys again. But until they do, they have reduced themselves to the likes of the NDP. How many seats do they have again?? The true Liberal brand went the way of the DODO bird when the commie Trudeau took over. Libs and Dippers might as well unite. Because unless they change they will be out of power for a long time.

Robin the Hood
said

Fact is that a carbon cap and trade system and a carbon tax are both needed as to reduce CO2 emissions which cannot go on as is. Business as usual will spell long term environmental disaster and I refuse to tolerate a society that makes no effort to clean up its act. Problem is that such taxes should be introduced during times of economic prosperity and not during a recession!.. another dopey move by Dion who previously stated he would not support a carbon tax. Seems the Greens are the only party that takes climate change seriously!

Aaron in Toronto
said

Can we stick to the topic please? Throughout the last few months people over here are attacking each party to a point it is laughable.

About the Green Shift Tax. I don't think I need to read the whole document as it is all BS to me. However, I do know one thing. If the government tax on CO2 and then business will not take the heat. The tax would then be transfer to my (consumer's) shoulder. Until there are firm number to proof that it would be neutral at the end. I am not buying it. I don't understand why Canadian in general would buy into the dream of being the hero to save planet Earth? We don't even have enough population to make an impact. This sound good but would not benefit us approach need to be change. I am paying enough as is on fuel and food plus everything else in which we deem to be necessary to live on and I simply can't afford to pay more at the pump or anything that produce CO2.

Justin
said

I do not trust Jason Kenney at all. I hope the Conservatives do not win, especially with people like Harper leading the country (e.g. his infamous lumber deal with the U.S. after all of the efforts made by the Liberals) and Kenney being such a royal kiss-up to Harper by attacking the Liberals without any justification whatsoever.

Dave, Ottawa
said

Folks, anthropomorphic global warming isn't happening. There has not been any warming of the planet in the last decade, despite CO2 emissions increasing every year. There are many good reasons to move away from the use of fossil fuels - REAL pollution, finite resources, and the fact a large amount of oil is controlled by countries who dislike us, come to mind.

Let's do our move to alternative energies in a calm, orderly fashion. The world is not going to end tomorrow, or even a hundred years from now, at least not due to anthropomorphic global warming. A meteor strike is more likely.

The minute someone can provide me with green electricity that costs less per BTU than natural gas, I will ditch my furnace and install baseboard heat. The day that someone comes out with a "green" car that costs less to purchase and operate than one with a gas/diesel engine, and has similar range, cargo, towing, and speed capabilities, I'll buy one.

We do not need a government-mandated Green Shift tax scheme to accomplish this artificially, by raising the price of the natural gas, the gasoline, the furnace, and the internal combustion engine. Let free market forces and SENSIBLE goverment regulation work naturally.

Peter in Saskatchewan
said

The green shift is not an environmental plan. It is a tax. It is not revenue neutral. Sask and AB have about 4 million people, 12% of the population, but with 40% of the emissions, we'll get 40% of the tax, but only 12% of the tax relief. The rest of our tax relief will be spread among Canadians who are not taxed as high.

If that same 12% of the population was from Ontario or Quebec, does anyone think this would be a Liberal policy? I think not!

Dion is the leader of the Western Separation Movement.

Earl Robert
said

Greg in the Hammer has a lengthy comment and I hope everyone reads it.
I'm going to vote Conservative because Mr. Harper is doing a great job fixing the problems left by the Liberals. Just imagine what would happen if a carbon tax was imposed one EVERYONE. Dion has to go.

Denise
said

I really don't understand the people who say "At least the Liberals have an environmental plan". No, actually, they don't. They have blatantly admitted that this is a wealth transfer plan to fund social programs, not an environmental plan. The only instance in which you could remotely classify the "Green Shift" as an environmental plan would be if EVERY penny generated from it went into funding alternative technologies to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. I'm sorry, did I miss Messr Dion indicating that was to be the case?

spencer
said

FORGET trying to understand Dion's SHIFTY GREEN PLAN, the real challenge is understanding DION.

In the latest poll just released 8 out 10 Canadians can not understand a single word he says.

Ted
said

Also, no more of Harper's politics of division and secrecy thank you.

RAV
said

The environment is not the only issue facing parties in the next election. The environment as important as it is will take a back seat to pocket book items such as higher taxes and continued employment. The environment will also take a back seat to safety concerns. The Harper government has and is addressing these issues which are of most concern to Canadians. As a result when a person enters the polling booth they will vote for the person and party which will maintain their existing quality of life. In the present circumstances this will be the Conservative party under the direction of Harper.

Ted
said

I would vote for anyone except Harper. So far, he has broken most of his promises and used our money ($2 billion) to buy votes in Quebec. Not to mention how he embarrassed Canada at the AIDS Conference and Asian Summit and Olympics - we will no doubt pay for the last two especially. Harper has no money for the environment, very little for transit and infrastructure, but endless billions for war and military build up - sounds like Bush light to me. Dion you're my man even though I think you should leave the Green Shift Plan until after the economy recovers from right wing conservative economics of placating oil companies.

Trevor
said

For the supports of the "Green Shift" plan...

The idea of it is to have the heaviest tax burdon on those who pollute the most (i.e., big companies). Do you honestly think that these big companies will pay this tax and say "don't worry consumer, we'll take this one"?

Of course not. This "tax" will increase their cost of production which will be passed down to the end consumer. This tax will only result in higher prices for the end product whether it be gasoline, utilities, or food.

Vote for the "right" choice. Vote Conservative!

Jim McB
said

Mr Dion is in trouble with this policy. His party is in full damage control mode even before the writ is dropped, a very tenuous position indeed.

He stated today that the Conservative green plan cost would esculate with the cost of fuel; then stated his Green Shift would avoid that. As it is an added tax it would be on top of the inflated price of fuel so that assertion just does not make sense or Mr Dion is confused about the application of the plan.

The Maritime mouthpiece Scott Brison stated categorically to the NS media that there would be a side deal struck because of the Nova Scotia dependence on fossil fuels for energy production. No way, says Mr Dion, so that rift has to be mitigated some way. Announcing a policy with so many flaws that is has to be rewritten before it is implimented does not give the voter a lot of confidence.

They will be stuck selling this albatross while Mr Harper and the others will be discussing new initiatives. It is not a good day to be a Liberal!

Sanitylost in Montreal
said

Why do we think that the government needs to use taxes to reduce our carbon footprint?
The market and the attitudes of Canadians are shifting. We are changing how we live already. Electric cars are on the way, the cost of fuel is rising, recycling is booming and more innovative power sources are being developed. We can't change overnight but it will come.
Tax tax tax is not a useful way to govern. We can provide incentives and tax breaks but to just tax is ridiculous, especially when it's the Liberals that want to implement the taxes.
I say go to the election and vote for the conservatives.

Rick in NB
said

Gabriel2 you hit the nail on the head.
we will shift those taxes to what we all want less of, greenhouse gas emissions and waste. Think about it. This will cause people and industry using GHGs and causing waste to find alternate power sources and cleaner waste solutions. Thus avoiding the shift tax. thank you for your help.

WasSasknowOnt
said

"Crazy Jim
The green shift calculator shows that a person making $8000/year will save $399/year through income tax reductions.

Problem: $8000/year is below the personal exemption level. A person making that much does not pay taxes. THIS CALCULATOR LIES. How's that for your average little Canadian mind figuring out your plan Mr. Dion?"
Right on. We are not all stupid because we are old! We pensioners will be hosed and some will DIE for lack of heat and food! Take that, Dion and your Cronies.

Marcel
said

To Some people still in the dark ages: I'm not the person in the dark ages. It is the Reform/Alliance/NeoCon/Republican Party of the North that is in the dark ages. Mr. Harper and his outdated ideas of the 18th and 19th century are completely out of the touch with the majority of the Canadian public. Therefore, he will never receive a majority government. Thank you

John
said

Yippee, the price of oil dropped another $8 a barrel today. Won't take too much longer till the price makes it uneconomical to keep the tarsands open. I can't wait for them to shut down. Economists are predicting oil to drop signifacantly back to 1988 prices or less. Good for Canadians, bad for Albertans, but so what

Linda
said

It's total partisan rhetoric to say that people want to protect the environment,but don't want to pay for it.If these taxes actually did reduce pollution,Canadians would be more inclined to accept them.
Mr.Dions plan has nothing to do with reducing emissions.It has to do with paying for his left wing programs.And,it is seriously flawed.If he did reduce taxes and put in new spending on programs,the "green shift" MUST actually fail to reduce fossil fuel consumption.He now needs the new tax to finance his agenda,and if we spend less on fossil fuels,his revenue would fall,and he would have to impose more taxes to keep paying for those tax cuts and new programs.
Good intentions aside,the whole program is a fraud.
In the absence of real reductions in any party's program,we will continue to do it oursleves,with our own earnings.We have replaced ALL of our old windows,added huge amounts of insulation to our home,purchased energy efficient lights and appliances,and on and on.And when a "clean" car hits the market,we will be first in line to look at it.I am hoping it will be affordable.
So,do not tell me Canadians are not willing to pay for a greener lifestyle.Just because a person thinks Dion's plan is a joke,that doesn't mean we won't pay.It means his plan sucks.It's just another tax.Period.

Tom (Ottawa)
said

Mr. Dion is riding a Carbon-Tax Plan which is treating the Global Warming Symptom, this course of action will only hurt every Canadian.

What Mr. Dion and Mr. Harper (PM) need to focus on is Green Innovation to phase the Provinces and Canada out of patch solution that Europe and America have in place.

This is the only way Canada will stand out as a Green Leader. If this does not happen in the near future then Mr. Dion and M. Harper are both going to be pulling the shirt string, which will affect all Canadians.

Clay
said

I agree with Karl. the tax burden and incentives needs to be shifted to the auto, energy industries and other heavy polluters. make them work harder to find cleaner products, and manufacturing techniques. I think Dion's out to lunch if he thinks his plan will be revenue neutral. but Harper seems to have his head in the sand and the rest of him in the pocket of Big Oil. I support the PM regardless, but I would like to see him get a proper green plan together, lest he be compared to the likes of GW Bush. You cant watch movies like "Inconvienent Truth", and "who killed the Electric Car" without shaking your head. I hope the western world and China can get it's act together before it's too late.

James.
said

So what's the Harper plan?

Tax carbon at a higher cost than the Liberals. But unlike the Green Shift, no tax relief.

Come on Jason, explain that!

Trent
said

Paul in BC..Are you for real? If the goverment taxes the oil company 3% where do you think they are going to get that money back from? Well us the user's so they will add 3% TO FUEL,oil products..Get with the program we the people will lose in this plan, A child can see that..

Dan
said

I don't understand teh "Green Shift" either. All I see is my money, (in the form of new taxes) slipping away from me. I guess I can turn my heat off which will help the planet, but I fear I may freeze to death. Then what? This I would like to discuss in more detail with people. Anybody want to discuss this at speakyourmindeh.ca? I do think we need to change our way in Canada but I don't agree that we can do it all in one big move. I would rather we take a much more educated approach and first invite things we can use to change, not just punish me for trying to stay warm in the Canadian winter, or trying to get to work so I can afford to pay taxes.

How about an H20 Tax too?
said

At a time when the economy is teetering on the brink of depression, this plan is a very bad idea.

Industry is fighting to stay alive in Ontario and now you want to have them pay additional "credits" for this imaginary save the planet tax grab. This is deplorable. Even more so that it's the everyday person who has been taking wage cuts and layoffs who will feel the brunt of it.

BOOOOOOOOOOO!

Jonathan
said

Gabriel2:

It doesn't help the environment at all. Big polluters will pay higher taxes. Take a power generating utility for example. If they have to pay $200 million more in taxes, how are they able to pay to bring new technology on-line or become more effieicent? They can't. And where are they going to get the money to pay their taxes? By raising the cost to the consumer. In the end your electricity bill goes up, and the emissions remain the same. Another thing that has not been fully explained in the plan is the so called tax cuts. Will those be offset by increasing the GST back to 7% as Dion as said he wanted to do? What about the Universal Child Care Benefit which gives $100 pre child under 6? What about the other tax credits that the Conservatives have implemented in the past year such as the benefit for working, or enrolling your child in a sports program. Is Dion prepared to keep all those tax cuts along with his Green Shift tax cuts? Do you really want to elect him and find out?

Out West By Choice
said

How bad would it be to have to go to your constituents with a plan to tax them and ask for their vote. Now that's a tough sell. I'll bet they do the greenshift thing for about a week and when the first polls start coming in you will hear the exemptions coming in. First exemption will be the auto industry. Then Dion will exempt the farm industry. By the time he is done the only thing left in his Greenshift will look alot more like the NEP.

If none of that works the libs could just go back to the old stand-by techniques like comparing harper to bush (who will be gone a couple of weeks later) or the hidden agenda line might still have some legs.

Its gunna be a tough campaign for the guys and gals in red

John W.
said

ok everyone it goes something like this, I don't want to know what government put what tax, I would like to remember which government cut any taxes and one that comes to mind is the conservative Gov. with Stephen Harper in the front, I already pay enough taxes give me a Gov. that has a visionary look at helping the environment using existing resources that already comes out of our pocket don't give me an alternative that is going to set me further back in an already hurt economy.

Doug BC
said

The "green Shift" is called the "green shaft" because it actually does othing to actually reduce GHG emissions.All that it does is make people pay for them.And Dion's ideal of revenue neutral only menas it is revenuve neutral for the government.It will not be revenue neutral to you and I.A portion of the "green tax" will be used to reduce income taxes,"for select groups".THe rest goes into new spending on an brand new push towards a new socialist agenda.
I "might" have been more receptive if they could have shown how this nonsense would have actually reduced our emissions.THey cannot because it will not.It just means we pay more to pollute and move even closer to a socialist regime.
Build the cars and trucks we need.Modify building codes to improve efficiency,shut down some fossil fuel hot tub and swimming pool heaters,etc,etc.
This voter,a long time Liberal supporter will buy products that reduce GHG's and other pollutuants.And I wil support clean energy initiatives.Assuming the government leaves me enough money to actually afford a new vehicle.
I WILL NOT BE TAXED TO DEATH for the necessities in life that have no reasonable alternative.
I'm not especially keen on Mr,Harper.But it is clear his party has the best,of an admittedly poor choice of agendas.
Lower taxes,an assault on the national debt,a reasonably equipped military,and Arctic defense plan,a crime plan that jails violent and repeat offenders,etc,etc.
These are all parts of a plan that,rather than spew anti USA rhetoric,actually takes Canada on a path that makes our sovereignty much easier to defend.
Sorry Mr.Dion.After years of supporting Liberals,I abandoned you because you abandoned me.

Some people still in the dark ages
said

Marcel, you're behind the times buddy!

The Reform/Alliance went out with Chretien and the big Liberal scandals of the 1990's ... where have you been pal?

Harper is the main man for the time and is reshaping Canada eer since your gang that couldn't shoot straight messed it up.

John T
said

The bottom line is that a carbon tax brings the price of consumption closer to the true cost to society.

Essentially, without it we are subsidizing current consumption with the quality of life of our children and grandchildren.

Since we are not paying the true price of fuel, we consume too much of it - in irresponsible amounts.

Farmers run equipment on subsidized purple gas, but they leave equipment idling, squander lots of it, and run it in their highway vehicles, hoping they don't get 'dipped'.

Truckers and cab operators fuel expenses are generously credited. I think that farmers and transport, and industry are well taken care of. They need to get hungry to change their ways.

The result of subsidies is that we are not careful about the amount we consume, and we are not responsible stewards of our beautiful country and our only planet.

Come on, people, this is the big leaques. How we handle this will define our legacy. Do you want future generations to look back at us as the single generation that consumed almost all the fuel of the planet and destroyed the environment with full knowledge of the pain and suffering we were inflicting on untold millions of people well into the future?.

They will wish they could bring us back to life so they could skin us alive for what we are doing!

And all you can do is whine about paying what something is worth, and make jokes about someone's accent because they are trying to get you to face the truth.

It is not the truth that is inconvenient, it is the black hole that the truth is chewing in your conscience that you are trying to ignore - THAT is inconvenient. But you have to face it, better sooner than later.

Bill
said

Ask any trucking company what the carbon tax in BC accomplish. It costs us more to operated so we have put a Carbon Sur Tax on any freight into or out of BC. The reality of the situation is that any new tax is not magically absorbed by the company that is taxed, it is figured into the cost of goods and passed on to the consumer. Anyone who does not believe that then I question how you survive in this world think about it. There is no such thing as a revenue neutral tax with every + there is a - and if you believe ANY political party that claims they will equal out, god help us. all.

Sam Crawford
said

Dion says that "once Canadians fully understand it, they will realize it is the best way forward."

Perhaps he could FULLY EXPLAIN the plan?

Greg.
said

The more I hear the Tories/Conservatives talk about the Green Shift Plan from the Liberals, the more I think it makes sense and they are worried about it.
If it's truly bunk then shut up about it.

JP
said

Mr. Dion lives in a fantasy world. He is out of touch with the realities facing the vast majority of Canadians.
It's bad enough that we are paying record prices at the pumps, he proposes to add yet another tax.
How much money does he think Canadians have after income taxes, food cost, gas cost, property taxes, etc. ???

Many Canadians are in rough financial shape and only living paycheck to paycheck.

The priority of every party leader in Canada should be to make living in Canada more affordable and to fix the economy.

How well do you think the Canadian economy would be doing if we removed commodities from the equation ?

Dale Wilson
said

The Green Shift will do as much good for Canada as a good dose of Cholera. I hesitate to use such strong language but Canadians should be absolutely frightened of what this would do to our economy and to those best suited to pay the price that will be levied on everything we do.

Larry I
said

My money is on Dion. He is the only person brave enough to do something about our environment. Wake up people! These massive hurracanes are happening because of green house gases and global warming. I would much rather have Dion as a champion of te environment than that bull dog John Baird who keeps blaming the Liberals who have been out of power for 3 years. I welcome an election and sure hope we can get rid of that Mike Harris graduate John Baird once and for all.

Gabriel2
said

somebody here was all la ti da,saying they've read the Green Shift Plan and people shouldn't comment on it here because "they" don't know how good of a plan it is and to read it. Here's the plan:
"Our plan is as powerful as it is simple. We will cut taxes on those things we all want more of such as income, investment and innovation, and we will shift those taxes to what we all want less of: pollution, greenhouse gas emissions and waste."-So the plan is to cut your taxes in one area and tax you more in another area. Wow! And exactly how does that help the environment?

David C
said

Green Plan? How much more in taxes will Canadians have to fork over to administer this program? How many buildings, staff, computers, auditors, etc? I imagine this could easily cost at least a billion dollars annually. Revenue neutral or another Revenue Canada?

Does Dion like to drive to worka and heat his home? Does he purchase groceries, provided by farmers, from grocery stores and shipped by truckers? I guess he needs the fuel Alberta is supplying all Canadians just like the rest of us!

Greg in the Hammer
said

@at Roadrobber

There is more than one plan in effect in Europe. The EU uses a cap and trade system. The UK has a carbon tax system. Both are complete disasters.

Neither has resulted in any "GREEN EFFECT". CO2 emissions have risen in europe not shrunk, while working people have less, not more.

The 1-1.5% income tax increase Mr Dion is so proud of won't come close to offsetting the double digit % increases in fuel, food, clothing etc, that will result.

For those of you ignorant and arrogant enough to think that we can do ANYTHING about climate change, give your heads a shake. The earth is 4 billion years old. Its climate IS ALWAYS CHANGING. Humans have been here for less than an eye blink in the span of time, yet David Suzuki and Al Gore would have you believe that WE are the cause of all of whats happening in nature. PLEASE. The UN's IPCC panel is the biggest self serving sham going. Many of the most respected scientists that sat on it have lobbied to have their names removed from its bibliography because they can no longer supports its politically motivated findings. The five organizations that monitor climate on earth have indicated that temperature has remained flat since 2000 and in fact we now may be entering a cooling period.

We are far better served attacking problems like pollution and wasteful use our resources than something like CO2 which we all need for life to exist on this planet.

Jack M.
said

Surely, when Harper gets his way with the election, the Liberals will use the campaign to properly explain and sell their environmental plan. Except for the Tories who are committed to Harper, regardless of his shenanigans, the alternatives will become obvious. Good luck to Mr. Dion.

Worried
said

I am concerned about the Conservative Party position on the environment. The position appears to be that the status quo is okay. Air Canada cutting jobs to pay for higher fuel costs is okay, the loss of manufacturing jobs by continuing to manufacture products that people do not want is okay. We have to change our economy to survive, there has been a significant shift it what our customers want. To address this shift we need to become more energy efficient so we can compete in the world market. At least the Liberal party�s position would do this by default. I am waiting for the Conservatives to come out with a plan that show hope for the fiscal future of the country. Jason Kenney can do better.

Tom
said

I think a lot of folks simply don't want another tax. Too bad for Mr. Dion as it will probably cost him his job. I waited for Mr Dion to accomplish something since he was elected the liberal party head and finally when he does something its a tax most people don't understand or want. At least the conservatives have done a few things even if there wrong. I agree with others in that the conservatives track record on the environment is pitifull. The sooner the liberal party gets its act together the better. Good by Mr Dion!

Laughing it Hurts and loving it
said

Here is a NOVEL green idea. Make the bottom 20 most in-efficent cars/trucks illegal to own in Canada. Make the top 20 most efficent cars/trucks more affordable. Demand higher LEGAL standards for fuel efficency.

With the Green Shaft plan, heating your home in Minus 40 is going to make people shift to Wood Burning Stoves? THAT IS NOT MORE GREEN FRIENDLY. Just ask rural Ontario what wood burning does to the air out there? Worse than Toronto mid summer !!!!!

Oh, did't the opposition want an election? They have been talking about fall elections all year? So when one is called, they are surprized? They are truly the best leaders for their parties.

As for the Election Law, that is for Majority Governments. If minority governments are "frozen" or not effective, an election can be called. But I guess they will try to politically push this as "look at the lies the conservatives told." Well if that is a lie, than what of the decade of liberal leadership. Too bad they have to get good old Jean Chrientens opinion on the matter? He is the leader.... ops, past leader. So is he getting ANY press? Interesting.

Bring on the election. As for polls, you think people "honestly" give their "honest" opinion? The only honest opinion I have heard is that NO ONE LIKES Dion. Hum....

Dd
said

Funny how the polls have people overwhelmingly saying that they will pay to help protect to help the environment, but when the buck is down, they whine about it. Hypocrites.

The planet is in trouble. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. At least the Liberals are making an attempt to do SOMETHING...ANYTHING.

The Conservatives are DOING NOTHING to protect the environment. If they manage a majority, this nation is in trouble!!

Stop whining. Pay the money (if at all considering it's revenue neutral) and consider it an investment in tomorrow.

Shannon
said

I have a couple of questions about the "Green Shift Plan".

According to Dion, the worst polluters will be taxed so they will be encouraged to reduce their emissions. So if they reduce their emissions, they pay less tax. So that's less revenue for the government. Where will the government get their money ? FROM US !!!!

Also, Dion wants to tax my home heating costs to punish me for heating my home with fossil fuels. So if my monthly bills increase, how do I afford to purchase a new, energy efficient heating system for my home ? All my money will be gone to the oil company and the government.

Oh, that's right, I will get a tax rebate. I guess I'll just call up the oil company and tell them that I can't pay them until April when my refund arrives. If they have a problem with that I'll just give them Dion's number.

And I agree with Greg In The Hammer.

trevor pfeifenroth
said

Anyone who has a brain would know if you put big taxes on corporations they just pass that onto you and I ,so enough of this crap gas will not be effected at the pump. we rual people without public transportation will pay the most.Great for people who do not work!

John in Sask.
said

Ian, If you are going to get $1500-1650 back you must be making a lot of money. I am on a fixed income and rely on a vehicle to go anywhere in small town Sask. Where is my saving? I still have to drive! To have something revenue nuetral, you have to have a large income to save on income tax. Green shift is only for high income poeple!!!!! I definiteley won't be voting Lib.

Robert
said

Parliament has been dysfunctional for much of the past year. Its amazing that, given the contentious atmosphere, that this is one of the longest minority governments in Canadian history - and one of the most productive.
Harper has been able to skillfully broker arrangements with one or more parties on an issue by issue basis... and the Liberals have abrogated their responsibility by being absent on key votes - over and over.
Several pieces of key legislation have been stalled in the anachronous liberal-dominated Senate - legislation which would make significant improvements in the lives of you and me as ordinary Canadians.
I even heard one opposition member last week raise the pathetic and discredited statement of a Conservative "hidden agenda".
This conservative government has proven to be one of the most pragmatic ones of recent decades.
I think Harper is fed up with the shenanigans of an increasingly dysfunctional Parliament and is saying - "put up or shut up and assist us in governing this country".
The election results will show that Harper has the approval to keep governing and lead us into the future and that he is on the correct course. The results will also dump Dion on the trash heap of history - and hopefully send a message to idealogues out of touch with the needs and aspirations of ordinary Canadians like you and me.

SRG
said

Does anyone else find it funny that the Secratary of State for Multiculturalism is commenting on the environment?

Do people really believe that Harper can come up with a "green plan" that won't cost the average person more?

Bring on another minority!

James
said

What we need is another minority government. This will force the parties to sit down and work together on some type of positive environmental plan. To give any one party a majority position would be pure folly. The Conservatives would continue to put off any movement on the environment because the economy is stalled right now. The Liberals would quickly revert back to their old ways. The NDP would not know what to do with power. The Bloc don't want it and the Green are well... too green. Let's all work together to show the politicians that when Canadians vote for a minority government that is what we want, not some annoyed politicians who didn't get what they wanted. Keep the politicians in check; spread your votes around and make them do as we want. Vote for a minority and take charge!!

Charles
said

It irritates me how aloof and awkward Dion is, but I'd still rather have the conservatives out of government. I'm hoping for another minority and two new leaders of the major parties.

BT
said

First of all is there anything wrong with a plan adapting after feedback from Canadians?

Secondly it's strange that they criticize the Liberal plan for not being complete when after 2 years of governing their own plan isn't complete.

The fact is that the environmental policies of ALL parties will increase costs. The Liberal plan will do it in a way where they can give something back.

WMN
said

It's easy to understand... more taxes = more government = less freedom

Crazy Jim
said

The green shift calculator shows that a person making $8000/year will save $399/year through income tax reductions.

Problem: $8000/year is below the personal exemption level. A person making that much does not pay taxes. THIS CALCULATOR LIES. How's that for your average little Canadian mind figuring out your plan Mr. Dion?

Also: The plan will reduce taxes based on earnings but increase them based on consumption. This means that wealthy and self sustaining will benefit while consumption costs increase, hurting those on fixed income.

It's not my own point of view but this plan fails from the LEFT. If they get it together and deliver this message, I'm expecting big things from the NDP this go-around.

DRH
said

Dions "Green Shaft" plan will not work......at all. The taxes levied on the manufacturing/deliveringsectors will be passed down to the consumer plain and simple. There has never been a tax ever that has been "revenue neutral" and the fact that the Liberals main governing policies are always tax and spend. The only ones that will profit from this is the Liberal coffers as they are empty. I say give Mr. Harper a majority and let him address the more pressing issues that are forthcoming like crime in the cities, infrastructure and the development of environmental alternatives.

Sask Man
said

This country needs to a Conservative majority. This would allow our government to function with some certainty. Steven Harper is a smart man that we are lucky to have as a leader.
The USA would be so lucky if they actually had someone like Mr Harper running in their election.

We now know that the Liberals Green Shift Plan is a dog. We do not need more costs added to all our goods which is exactly what will happen. Truckers, jobbers, sales outlets... will all need to pass on these extra costs. It would be a diasaster if the Liberals got in and implemented this plan.

Joe in New Brunswick.
said

The funny thing is how many conservatives have you heard clearly explain their own 'green plan' and how it works? None, thats how many. Not only does the conservative plan include a higher carbon tax than the liberals ($60 per ton versus $40), but it doesn't include offsetting income tax brakes.

I don't understand either plan completely, but I've yet to hear a conservative say anything good about their green plan. All I hear them doing is badmouthing the opposition. That doesn't win votes in my house.

A Real IT Manager from Calgary
said

If anyone is ignorant enough to believe that Dion's "Green Shaft" will be revenue neutral, then I have a bridge for them to buy. Prepare to pay a lot more for all goods with a Liberal government.

The Liberals never met a tax they didn't like.

MBM
said

I don't understand Dion!!! not only because his pore English but his "FLIP PLOP" He was the first one to say "THE PARLIAMENT WAS DESFUNCTIONAL" THREATEN TO BRING THE GOVERNMENT DOWN. Mr. Harper was kind to call a meeting with him to see if could have anything done in the Parliament, he refused to support the government TO get work done. I wander what this confused Mad-Man want. Lot of Canadians are raising eye brows regard of his Green Shift Plan which is another way of cheating Canadians rising taxes in everything including food. We already pay the highest taxes in Canada to the Provincial Government. Dion if elected he will walk on the same steps of Paul Martin-Broken promises and offer special deals to few friends and nothing to others. Liberals only care for their friends not for all Canadians. Under the leadership of Mr. Harper the country is in the right track. Mr. Harper has what it takes to be the Prime Minister of this Country. We need Mr. Harper to Lead this Country. Lets endorse him & give him the mandate he needs to keep doing the excellent work that Mr. Harper & his government have been doing for the lost 2 & half years. Cheers Mr. Harper & the Conservative government.

Frank
said

Conservatives, selling with fear whenever possible.

Might as well vote Natural Law. So far I don't think they've lied.

Here's a real election question, would you like the Canadian Government to spend $350 million right now, or would you rather a cheque for $10?

Ian
said

This is outright fear mongering by the Conservatives. I challenge all Canadians to actually sit down and read the Green Shift Proposal (as i doubt many have)Instead of just damming it with no knowledge but doing so because the Conservatives tell you to is just wrong. I will again ask, What do you think it is going to cost you if and when the Conservatives finally do tell us what their plan is. Will my money just go out the door??? will I recieve any money back for being a little more green????am I going to have to wait till 2050 to see anything done????.

If this plan had been brought out by the Conservatives you'd be all over it and touting it as a great plan. Now, I do live in Toronto and am on a fixed income and already I know my refund will be between $1500-$1650. I know for sure that my costs increases per yr will be nowhere near that. This is a very good plan once you really look into it and take off your partisan blinkers. WHAT IS HARPER'S PLAN GOING TO COST ME

Roadrobber
said

Some people have been comparing Dion's Carbon Tax to Eurpoes tax. Well, just to let everyone know, Europe has a cap and trade system, not a carbon tax. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

If Dion and his supporters are making the carbon tax the main platform of the next election, there is no doubt they will lose.

Wayne
said

I will be voting Conservative whenever we have an election as I have become very impressed with Mr. harper and I think he is one of the best leaders whe have had in quite some time. We have some serious challenges in front of us and I certainly do now want Dion being in the spot to make any decisions for the country after all he has quite a track record 44 confidence motions he has sat on his hands in a vote after complaining about the gov't - what a record that is!

Ontario Proud
said

I remember one of the first things that Harper did was roll back the Liberal personal income tax cut. Now the Liberals want to reduce my personal income tax again and I will only pay additional tax on what I purchase. I like this idea as it puts the choice in my hands. My kids want a healthy planet to raise their kids. I am glad Dion is showing leadership and bringing new ideas forward.

Lloyd in Manitoba
said

I dread a Harper majority but the Liberals deserve all that's coming to them. They've known for years that Dion was a tough sell,long before he trotted out his green shift shell game plan for pain. I see John Godfey, the veteran Toronto MP who reportedly talked Dion into the green shift scheme,is not running again.Trying to help Elizabeth May and the Green Party in Nova Scotia is just one more example of Liberal lunkheadedness.But I hope Justin Trudeau gets elected in Montreal.

dave eagleson
said

farmers of ontario will not go for paying for the liberal green plan we had 13 years of liberal ag policy that was a driving us off the land farmers cant trust i liberal program . we rural people helped put harper in because he and his party work with the farmers to get a program that works.we farmers and rural poeple dont want to be taxed to give tax cuts to the rich

Paul in BC
said

At least the Liberals have a plan which is to reduce income taxes and put the tax where it belongs on fossil fuels (and not at the pump but at source). What's so difficult to understand about that Mr. Kenny??

The Conservatives have no global warming environmental plan except to do nothing, like George W. Bush / John McCain. The conservatives talk a lot, evidence Mr. Kenny, but do nothing.

I'll vote for the person who at least has a draft plan.

Red X
said

Hey Kenney!Under the green shift - those who earn income will get a tax cut of 1 - 1.5%
By wasting less energy Canadians will benefit.

It is the major producers of carbon who will have to pay OR change business processes.

Annette
said

As a senior on a smell pension we are already paying twice as much to fill our car up,and Dion want to tax us more ,not just this year but for the next 4 years with this carbon tax.I guess you can survive on hot dogs
I will be votion for Stephen Harper

Richard from Ontario
said

I'm surprised Marcel is still calling the Conservatives, the Reform/Alliance. I thought all Librals had advanced to calling the party the NEO-CONS. No matter the name calling from the Liberal hacks, Stephen Harper is ten times the leader that Stepan Dion is.. At least for one thing we wont see a huge raise in our taxes if the Conservatives are given a majority.. Go Stephen Go...

Mary from Alberta
said

I am so disappointed in Harper. He said he would be differnt. He has been worse. And now he says he needs to call an election because the opposition wants to act like an opposition. This would be laughable if it didn't cost us $300+ million. He does not respect parliament nor it's traditions. I am very concerned about what he would do with a majority.

Rosie
said

Dion will have alot of explaining to do on the carbon tax scheme .If he ca articulate his plan and come up eith some real numbers he just may have a chance.hahahahah...

KARL
said

We don't need a Green shift plan we need a plan for greener innovations. We need the provinces to get into wind, solar and tidle power. We need higher standards on our cars. We need more leaders like PM Harper.

Steve the Pundit
said

Hey Monsieur Dion:

Just goes to show you, EVERYONE cares about helping the environment, EXCEPT when the cost impacts them directly, as in:
- voters already worrying about how to pay for their "Green Shifted" utility bills while their jobs are in jeopardy;
- MP's who would try to sell the so-called "merits" of the Green Shift to those same voters (and thus put their own jobs in jeopardy).

Game over M. Dion; game, set and match (and hopefully, majority) to Mister Harper.

Greg in the Hammer
said

The magnifying glass definitely needs to be put to Mr Dions "Green Shift". He has oft touted Europe's varied carbon tax's and carbon trading schemes as an example for Canada to follow. What he hasn't told Canadians is that under these schemes: the cost of utilites, transportation, food and goods (in short anything that needs to be transported) has skyrocketed, making the cost of living prohibitive for millions of europeans. The prime benefactors of these schemes has not been ordinary people but rather the corporations and stockholders of europes utility companies and of course governments.
In addition CO2 emissions which are if you believe the Kool Aid drinking, David Suzuki and Al Gore disciples, the root of all evil in our world, have actually GONE UP not down.
Mr Dion in his love affair with Europes approach to climate change has ignored two glaring realities. CANADA ISN'T EUROPE: it is huge in size while comparitively small in population. We drive more, ship more, fly more out of necessity. The Green Shift will simply punish Canadians for trying to live their lives. Second, CARBON TAX'S AND CARBON TRADING SCHEMES DON'T WORK. The most effective catalyst to change peoples behaviour is the market, and the drive that that creates to find alternatives.

Its my hope however that Mr Dion continues to push the GREEN SHAFT on Canadians so that he and his party are decimated come election day and we can get on with dealing with matters like the economy, our national security, law and order, etc in a rational and reasoned matter.

Keith, Halifax
said

During the 2006 election the polls were all over the place but in the end one stood out as crazy accurate. Nanos got the exact percentage that all 5 parties would receive. While I�m disturbed at the Conservative strength in this poll, I still put far more stock in the Nanos poll last week which had the Liberals at 34% and the Conservatives at 33%.

That said, and I never thought I would ever say this, but I would prefer the Conservatives squeak through with a small minority. This would prompt the Liberals into getting a new leader pronto.

Marcel
said

If all the Prime Minister and Jason Kenney can do is criticize Mr. Dion plan but do not offer an alternative, that is indication to me that the Reform/Alliance does not care about the environment. They do not want to do anything to save the earth. Thank you

HosedInSaskEitherWay
said

I'm no Stephen Harper fan, and the conservatives reneged on a key equalization promise to Saskatchewan, however I will probably vote for them anyway, as the conservatives will screw our province way less than the Liberal Green Shaft plan will. How about that for a choice?

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